Soul Hunter

[coalescence]

Looks like a fast unit with high damage (look how fast that group kills the reapers and the turrets) but low stamina (get wacked pretty easily by the reapers) unit. My question now is, we got: zealot, immortal, stalker, high templar, twilight archon, probably dark templar too (read the theories about the twilight archon), collusus and now the Soul Hunter. Thats quite alot already, can we conclude that the reaver is not coming back?

EDIT: Reaver is in the movie too... damn! Thats alot of new units, as I hoped the unit roster got beefed up good :)

[Ghost]

But
Looks like a fast unit with high damage (look how fast that group kills the reapers and the turrets) but low stamina (get wacked pretty easily by the reapers) unit. My question now is, we got: zealot, immortal, stalker, high templar, twilight archon, probably dark templar too (read the theories about the twilight archon), collusus and now the Soul Hunter. Thats quite alot already, can we conclude that the reaver is not coming back?


But you can see a reaver in the final scene.

[Fenix]

Exactly. At least, it looks like a Reaver.



I'm giddy. I wanna see the leaked vid for Zerg and Terran!!!

[Ghost]

Is ther one? or do you want one to come out?

[Fenix]

I want one....There isn't one....






Yet.

[Ghost]

You had me going for a second, any thoughts on why the toss where the first to be released to the public?

[Zombine]

Koreans use protoss, and blizzard doesnt care about anyone else(kidding)

I know i stated it somewhere else, but soul hunters look exactly like my mech form armored core 3:LR

to those of you who are not familiar with armored core, get off your lazy buts, find a PS2/3 /xbox 360 and an armored core game. Its basically like gran turismo, but with giant robots, machine guns and a total lack of racing.

[generalrievous]

meh they look exactly like an AC on hover body which dosnt fit well imo

[Zombine]

no, AC on hover body is what i had, because theres one with crappy shell defense but high maneuverability and energy defense, as well as good weight load.

It also has a partical laser on the right arm, a shield (or blade) on the left and thats all i can remember.

[Meloku]

It looks really overpowered, it moves fast and seems to do way too much damage! Then again, you cant expect like 5 marines to destroy a unit that probably comes out mid game. WE JUST NEED TO SEE WHAT THE TERRAN AND ZERG WILL HAVE!

[PsiGlaive]

Zealots riding surfboards? With lightning looking beams?

See how fast they took out buildings!?!

What are these things?

They look like protoss versions of seige tanks + vultures or something.

also, where is the reavers on that vid?

[Nikzad]

They remind of Scorpinok from Beast Wars

It looks like Scorpinok riding one of those hovering platforms that the Predacons had in their base since it was half-submerged in lava and they couldn't walk anywhere

I don't know if I like the color/animation for their attack; it reminds me of soul-steal from DotA or the plasma rifle's secondary fire capability from Unreal Tournament

[coalescence]

See how fast they took out buildings!?!


True, but they were also taken out very fast, like I said, its probably a high damage/low stamina unit.


also, where is the reavers on that vid?


Twilight Archon part hes above middel and goes down to the middle.

[Ghost]

See how fast they took out buildings!?!


True, but they were also taken out very fast, like I said, its probably a high damage/low stamina unit.


also, where is the reavers on that vid?


Twilight Archon part hes above middel and goes down to the middle.


As I have said b4, as DT's seem to be taking over the toss, there will be many more units with that same dmg-hp ratio.

[Pix]

Hover... boards... *drools*
~Pix~

[NotDeadYet]

meh they look exactly like an AC on hover body which dosnt fit well imo

Huh? An air conditioner on a hoverboard? What are you talking about? ;)

Someone else said that the soul hunters do more damage if more of them are firing at the same target. Look at the sould hunters that attack the Refinery; only a couple of them are firing, and the beam is pathetic. The command center, on the other hand, is not so lucky...

[Ghost]

meh they look exactly like an AC on hover body which dosnt fit well imo

Huh? An air conditioner on a hoverboard? What are you talking about? ;)

Someone else said that the soul hunters do more damage if more of them are firing at the same target. Look at the sould hunters that attack the Refinery; only a couple of them are firing, and the beam is pathetic. The command center, on the other hand, is not so lucky...


Lol on the AC joke.

Could be, but nearly every unit does more dmg if there are many of them.

[coalescence]

Man! Not linear!

Example;
Normally: 2 units do double the damage that 1 unit does
Soul hunter: 2 units do triple the damage that 1 unit does
(just an example)

[PsiGlaive]

OMG That would be cool, Coal!

Think about this though, what if their damage and hp were on scales, the more of them they do more damage and have less hp, the less of them they do less damage but have more hp!?!

[T-man]

OMG That would be cool, Coal!

Think about this though, what if their damage and hp were on scales, the more of them they do more damage and have less hp, the less of them they do less damage but have more hp!?!


Problem there would be how they would decide "more" or "less".
Would "more" be equal to as many of them selected, or would it be proximity?
I think scaling would be a can of worms. just having a non-linear increase in damage, based off of how many are targeting a specific unit, is simplest.

[coalescence]

Don't think hp will really work. I think its more like; the beam they use to attack combines making individual weapons stronger.. And maybe its like that if there much together they get an aura that they get damaged more quickly.

[Gold]

they seem really odd to me, they can take out buildings really fast (like the comand center) and they can also take out infantary pretty easily, so i guess there qeakness must be in thier lack of numbers I.E. they are high up the tech tree, and they must cost alot and take ages to build/upgrade something along those lines makes sence

[coalescence]

Crap, I tried to make a screenshot of the HD movie to show the fusing beams but if I take a screenshot of a HD movie the screen becomes black when I paste it into paint shop... wtf.

[Associate]

could be like the weapon from the warp rays which increasingly becomes more powerful the longer they fire at a single target

[coalescence]

According to the pc gamer article they get stronger everytime they suck up an infantry soul...

[Nikzad]

holy shhiittt that's taken straight from DotA, yo

Nevermore the Shadow Fiend is this guy who stores the souls of those he kills and he gets +2 damage for each kill/soul that he stores, up to +60 damage. When he dies he loses half of them, though

crrrraaaazyyyyy

[Oiyzas]

The beams remind me of that ghostbusters movie, remember? The big bad ghost was too tuff for their big backpack lazors, so they combined their beams to make a suparlazor that toasted it. Same principle, right?

I'm interested in seeing how the 'soul stealing' dmg bonus will work. It might lead to people weakening a unit then letting soul hunter take the kill so he gets the bonus... imagine trying to control a dozen units, all of them with different damage. Itd get crazy when you try to engage enemy groups.

[Zombine]

not entirely. in truth it would be a logistics nightmare for the opponent, especially if there is no physical changes( the quad cannons in C&C generals get a damage and rate of fire increase, but the upgraded ones are highly visible, so you can concentrate fire.)

[coalescence]

The beams remind me of that ghostbusters movie, remember? The big bad ghost was too tuff for their big backpack lazors, so they combined their beams to make a suparlazor that toasted it. Same principle, right?

Reminds me of a Necron from wh40k :O

[PsiGlaive]

You can definately see on the hd version which ones are shooting the bigger thicker brighter beams.

[overmind]

it says on the SClegacy page thats floating around that they get stronger each time 'they suck a soul' i seem to remember something a while back about upgrading units on the amount of kills they have. also they look pissweak if not massed.

[coalescence]

it says on the SClegacy page thats floating around that they get stronger each time 'they suck a soul' i seem to remember something a while back about upgrading units on the amount of kills they have. also they look pissweak if not massed.


Yaaay. Let's all just repeat everything thats already sayd in this topic ;D Plan of the century.

[Oiyzas]

The beams remind me of that ghostbusters movie, remember? The big bad ghost was too tuff for their big backpack lazors, so they combined their beams to make a suparlazor that toasted it. Same principle, right?

Reminds me of a Necron from wh40k :O


Yeah, but Gauss weapons werent able to combine fire like the hunter's. They look startlingly like Necron Destroyers, though.

[beBoy]

Crap, I tried to make a screenshot of the HD movie to show the fusing beams but if I take a screenshot of a HD movie the screen becomes black when I paste it into paint shop... wtf.


Cuz your player is using overlay to present the video to screen. PaintScreen only copies the content of the window, overlay is not included.

[coalescence]

Yeah, but Gauss weapons werent able to combine fire like the hunter's. They look startlingly like Necron Destroyers, though.


We found out that these aren't combining too, thicker rays are from units who absorbed more souls. Damn think of it, absorbing souls... thats so not protoss o_0

[Gold]

its more dark templar, and as ive said before, you can seee more dark templar technology coming through, a few of the new units have grey/silver armour rather than gold or yellow, the protoss are having to rely on the alloys of shakuras.

i dont know about the soul hunters, i dont really like them, hovreboards look a little cheesy

[hillzagold]

when in rome.

but i like the soul hunters, their arms remind me of those giant robots, like in gundam or something something evangelion.

[Gold]

yeah, but why not jsut have darktemplars, thier much cooler

[hillzagold]

we can have both

think of the soul hunter as a ground version of the corsair

[GuiMontag]

ye the soul hunters are definately dark templars lol, i cant imagine a zealot eating souls
what i dont get is that in the pc gamer description it says that they suck souls out of biological units but are almost useless against robotic units, why was the command center destroyed so fast then lols......

[Associate]

interesting, a weapon that gets more powerful after absorbing souls from fallen enemy units, I wonder if this apply also to the zerg

[Gold]

of course not, zerg dosnt have any souls111!!!11!1111111!!!!!!!!!!

[SmirkySmirker]

is it just me or do those things look friggin lame?

HOVERBOARDS?

FOR PROTOSS?

that is SO not cool of blizzard. if they keep this in there it will make me very very sad.

[Itsmyship]

Hoverboards?? Dude...it sounds like the Protoss version of HobgoblinÂ* :-\ The protoss don't seem like the very soul sucking type...it sounds very WoWish

[SmirkySmirker]

indeed, if bliz doesnt take this out RIGHT NOW ALONG WITH THE MOTHERSHIP AND THE MARINE SHIELDS AND THE ZEALOTS RUNNING EXACTLY LIKE DEMONHUNTERS AND THE GAY LIFELESS FLOATING ANIMATIONS OF THE SPACESHIPS AND THE HORRIBLE WARCRAFT 3 LIKE JUNGLE TERRAIN

im going to be mad.

[[LightMare]]

anyone here know Halo 2? the soul hunters look EXACTLY like grunts on hovering surfboards xP

[Caravela]

i agree on this unit overall LACK OF TASTE, i hope it gets replaced or something..it doesnt fit

[Bullet101]

I have to agree that this unit is bad. I really don't think it should be in SC2, but I trust Blizzard will make it a good game even if they decide to keep it.

[proswimma]

its like it was just randomly thought of and put in there

[bazzwano]

Have you all looked at the HD vid of this?? ok so we can say the dark templar are taking over protoss but the guy on that hover board doesnt look like a forsaken protoss they head is all wrong. It just doesn't look right.. I dont like this unit... and hover boards just dont seem like a protoss thing to do.

And sucking souls??? i dont remember zeratual saying anything about his forsaken protoss being able to eat souls. this is stupid. the only difference from protoss and forsaken protoss is there armour and technology.. then life form (protoss) still looks the same.. but not in the case of this unit.. looks like nether and i hate it lots

[bazzwano]

Also did anyone notice that some had a higher concentrated beam then others, it would appear they do more damage, i closely looked at this and found that one of them changed the strength of the beam after killing. So it would seem they get a damage bonus after getting a number of kills(souls), Hence the name i guess.

The more i see of this game the less i am starting to want it.. To much has changed and that unit has spoiled it for me... it looks stupid and just isn't protoss like. i didn't even realise it was on a board at first, i thought it was a robot unit.

[SmirkySmirker]

we should do a petition to fire whoever came up with the ideas of motherships and soul hunters, and marine shields. and battlecruisers lasers shooting off to the side, and the gay animation of the phoenix overcharge attack, and the way the zealots run like demonhunters.

[bazzwano]

I must admit, i didnt like the mother ship or the shealds eather because:

Mothership. SC isnt about realy big special units like this... but despite what ppl say i see no reason why i carnt lock it down because its not a hero so i think its ok now but would rather not have it, ill get use to it.

Terran shealds.. Shealds are old school, like the time of knights and kings. THEY ARE PRIMITIVE. and armour upgrade does not need this... BLIZZARD, do what dawn of war dark crusade did to show the armor upgrade, put a symble of the unit armour or something.

Soul hunters.. BAD BAD Concept. 1: silly hover board 2: strange looking charicter on the hoverB 3: the weapon looks crap especially when it hasn't received a bonus. 4: soul stealing is stupid and not a protoss or forsaken protoss thing to do.

THIS ACTULY MAKES ME RECONSIDER BUYING SC2 im still happy playing the original online

[Bullet101]

The Mothership is only making Starcraft more what it is if you think about it. Each race being it's own thing.

About the shields, it's an easy cheap, effective way to add a bit of armor.

Soul Hunters, I just don't like them.

[Oiyzas]

We found out that these aren't combining too, thicker rays are from units who absorbed more souls. Damn think of it, absorbing souls... thats so not protoss o_0


I meant that the Necrons' weapons did not get a nonlinear attack bonus for attacking en masse, not that their beams actually combined. The Ghostbusters comment is now obsolete, however. I thought they were actually combining when I said it.

I cant believe that Blizzard is going to do something this... well, un-starcraft-ish. Sucking souls? It seems too stereotypical, too.... done before. You know? Not at all original or Protoss-esque.

[SmirkySmirker]

yeah i think they probably aren't using the original starcraft team anymore

i wonder how many actually lasted this long and are still with the company?

[PrivateJoker]

Have you all looked at the HD vid of this?? ok so we can say the dark templar are taking over protoss but the guy on that hover board doesnt look like a forsaken protoss they head is all wrong. It just doesn't look right.. I dont like this unit... and hover boards just dont seem like a protoss thing to do.

And sucking souls??? i dont remember zeratual saying anything about his forsaken protoss being able to eat souls. this is stupid. the only difference from protoss and forsaken protoss is there armour and technology.. then life form (protoss) still looks the same.. but not in the case of this unit.. looks like nether and i hate it lots


Its very new, and you aren't used to it. Trust me, I am a huge Starcraft fan, but if you saw many units for the same time in original SC, they look pretty stupid. Like the Mutalisk and his...***** TONGUE!?Q!?

[GuiMontag]

lol the mutalisk did look pretty dumb, actually alot of the zerg units didnt look anything like what blizzard wanted them to becuase of the technology at the time

[PrivateJoker]

lol the mutalisk did look pretty dumb, actually alot of the zerg units didnt look anything like what blizzard wanted them to becuase of the technology at the time


No kidding! The new unit designs are killer, are in a sense like the original units except envisioned with more detail, and more fluid animation. Your just so used to the familiarity of the classic. This one will grow on you, most of the hype behind new Blizzard games usually is an understatement.....!!!!

[Itsmyship]

See, its not the Soul Hunter that bugs me, I'm open to the new abilities of these units, what bugs me is the fact that they suck souls; this concept stems away from Protoss and more to WoW imo

[PrivateJoker]

See, its not the Soul Hunter that bugs me, I'm open to the new abilities of these units, what bugs me is the fact that they suck souls; this concept stems away from Protoss and more to WoW imo


If you think about it, it fits into the whole psionic energy idea, especially consider these units are probably Dark protoss units, it really does make sense that these Protoss would use the psionic energy, or souls of their enemies for power.

[Zombine]

It isnt even necessarily a soul, because blizzard wouldn't want to turn it into a religious debate, its just bad PR

[wuffle]

I don't know WHY people are making such a big deal about it. "OH NO IT SUCKS SOULS. OH NO ITS ON A HOVERBOARD... THAT'S GAY! I'M NOT GONNA BUY SC2 NOW!" Boo Hoo. DON'T buy the game then if you don't like one unit, I will be fine without you. Besides what is so bad about sucking souls. I was playing Sc the other day and was looking at my kills on one unit and I thought to myself, "wouldn't that be cool if this number mattered?" Well now it does, and I'm happy. And I think the unit is perfect for the Protoss. Following the events of Brood War, they aren't the little, happy, "let's be all righteous" people from SC. Times have changed. And desperate times call for desperate measures.

[zeratul11]

and soul hunter happens to be a desperate created units. anyway i hope they should just improvise the model of the soul hunters, cause they look like their stuck on their hoverboard and moves plain and stiff.

[Oiyzas]

Protoss dont use other people's psionic energy. They use their own, and the energy that Aiur and Shakuras 'radiate', at least as far as I understand(I never paid much attention to Toss). Sucking the souls of terrans and zerg and using them just seems like something those egotistic, purer-than-thou templars would never, ever do. They consider the other races base and evil, right? So wouldnt contaminating their own machines of war with the essences of the other races be foul as well?

I mean, I'd love the idea of 'experience'- kills equal bonuses- since it fits well with their warrior caste system, but sucking souls just seems like the wrong angle for Blizzard to take.

[PrivateJoker]

Protoss dont use other people's psionic energy. They use their own, and the energy that Aiur and Shakuras 'radiate', at least as far as I understand(I never paid much attention to Toss). Sucking the souls of terrans and zerg and using them just seems like something those egotistic, purer-than-thou templars would never, ever do. They consider the other races base and evil, right? So wouldnt contaminating their own machines of war with the essences of the other races be foul as well?

I mean, I'd love the idea of 'experience'- kills equal bonuses- since it fits well with their warrior caste system, but sucking souls just seems like the wrong angle for Blizzard to take.


Your right, the "good" Protoss wouldn't. However the Khala Protoss have been exterminated by the Zerg, and the only major faction of the Protoss that still exists largely is the dark or "evil" Protoss. Exploiting their enemies psionic energy seems like a very reasonable strategy for the Dark Protoss.

[wuffle]

Thank you to Joker for telling him how it is. =D

[coalescence]

They should be sucking psi and not souls, would make it a whole lot more plausible.

[PowerkickasS]

so like just say
soul hunting = killing things
hoverboards = gay oh well

[Oiyzas]

The Dark Templars arent evil- they were banned for their ways, yes, but they werent actually evil or wrong. They had radically different ideas, but didnt commit atrocities against fellow Protoss- just against their customs.

What I'm saying is, they're still Protoss. They still think Protoss>All. It just doesnt fit that, different strategies or no, any Protoss would want to rely on humans or, even worse, the zerg, for power.

Changing this concept to an XP thing, or some kind of veteran status, would be alright, since that fits with Toss. Stealing souls from the Zerg just.... doesnt.

[coalescence]

"Your souls will be sucked, resistance is futile"

[hillzagold]

i'd rather have soul hunters then reapers.

[paragon]

I'd rather the soul hunter just walked around with its big soul stealing gun and didn't use that stupid hover board. And the soul part sounds dumb. Protoss have nothing to do with souls whether they be dark or not. Soul Hunter sounds like an Undead unit and this isn't WarCraft.

[Zombine]

"Your souls will be assimilated, resistance is futile"

your phrase was corrected because the borg dont suck

[FlyingTiger]

I'd rather the soul hunter just walked around with its big soul stealing gun and didn't use that stupid hover board. And the soul part sounds dumb. Protoss have nothing to do with souls whether they be dark or not. Soul Hunter sounds like an Undead unit and this isn't WarCraft.



haha yea, but hey you never know, they could change the name or take the unit out. However, it could be how the dark protoss run things. I mean if you look at the dark archon... they have mind control. That's somewhat like taking someone soul :D

[paragon]

Sorta but its more like taking someone's mind. As if they were controlling their mind... hmm.
Anyways, I'll draw a picture of what I think Soul Hunters should look like. And I shall call them... Phantoms

Edit: just a real quick sketch thing of said Phantom:

[mc2]

Nice artwork paragon :) yeah you're right, the "soul" part of the soul hunter sounds dumb. As well some units don't have a soul.

[FlyingTiger]

haha nice pic paragon. i'm just glad it doesnt have a hoverboard ^_^

:powerup:

[Meee]

Nice artwork paragon :) yeah you're right, the "soul" part of the soul hunter sounds dumb. As well some units don't have a soul.


agree, they shouldn't be able to harm Zerg. Or buildings...

[zeratul11]

twilight hunter.

[FlyingTiger]

twilight hunter.


haha that actually is the best name i've seen for the soul hunter (I prolly missed it somewhere). I mean it makes sense going along with the twilight archon. You can also call it dark hunter. Maybe. ^_^

[wuffle]

You guys are making too big of a deal out of the name. The hoverboard makes em go fast and pwnage micro!

[coalescence]

"Your souls will be assimilated, resistance is futile"

your phrase was corrected because the borg dont suck


Lol n00b, it was a parody on the borg phrase.

[Zombine]

"Your souls will be assimilated, resistance is futile"

your phrase was corrected because the borg dont suck


Lol n00b, it was a parody on the borg phrase.

1st its not n00bish, the borg literally don't suck (except in voyager, but that trek adventure sucks and blows at the same time)

2nd i realize its a parody, but its still not very good.

3. i bet 1/2 the people on this board don't know who the borg( or ferengi, or klingon) are, so its hard to make sure you didnt just rip the line from another movie/tv show.

kah'plah brethren

[paragon]

Arguing about Star Trek is worse than arguing about anything else over the internet because not only are you retarded regardless of whether you win or lose, you are also a nerd regardless of whether you win or lose.

[coalescence]

If you realised it you would never have made the comment you made earlier on.

[paragon]

Me? nuh uh.

Kidding. There is a difference between arguing and discussing.

[Major Willy]

SO ANYWAYS.

There were Missile Turrets firing at the Soul Hunters so because of the hover are they Air?
I can undestand the Colossi units getting hit because of their height...
Unless this means Turrets now shoot ground. Which would make my day.

[Fenix]

Bah, I like 'em. I actually think it's quite cool. I'm thinking we have a mob mentality about them.


And the Dark Templar draw their power from the "cold void of the cosmos". I think they can totally suck out "souls".....Heck, the Dark Archons can freaking mind control.

[SirBaron]

Well it would appear from PC Gamer that the Soul Hunter is specialized vs organics. A Zerg-killer with other words.

[GuiMontag]

SO ANYWAYS.

There were Missile Turrets firing at the Soul Hunters so because of the hover are they Air?
I can undestand the Colossi units getting hit because of their height...
Unless this means Turrets now shoot ground. Which would make my day.


did you watch the video???? none of the turrets attacked the soul hunters

[Major Willy]

...I could've sworn...?

[zeratul11]

terran should have defensive structures that targets ground units too (not the bunker). wheres the teslacoil when you need one.

anyway protoss soul hunters vs terrans (soul) reapers makes a good fight.

[coalescence]

I guess they should have some normal turrets, nothing special but things that would defend your base if your on an assault without having to leave a hell of alot marines in your base.

[PsiGlaive]

I always wondered why turrets weren't an upgrade for buildings, just put in a couple 360 degree turrets on top of the human buildings and there you go, ground defense.

[Itsmyship]

I guess they should have some normal turrets, nothing special but things that would defend your base if your on an assault without having to leave a hell of alot marines in your base.


I hear that, bunkering up always ended up being a strain on my food network. Despite the food strain though, i still like very much the idea of a bunker, i'm not sure if i'd trade it though

[coalescence]

Not trading, but 'in adition of', so your base will never be unguarded when you go on an all out attack.

[zeratul11]

maybe a small version of a siege tanks that cannot be moved which is for base purposes only. like in the movie in sc 1 were an injured dragoon was blasted by that mediocre vehicle. now how come they cannot make something like that but more powerful and high tech (but not as powerful as the siege tanks ofcourse) to defend terran bases.

[PrivateJoker]

The Soul Hunter will functionally, just like a vulture. Fast unit that is high powered against small infantry units. Essentially all "small" unit types, much like the Terran vulture.

[zeratul11]

but i think soul hunters are more powerful than the vultures. except for the spider mines.

[LoserInLosing]

The idea of Hoverboards.... Huh??? where did that come from

[Major Willy]

Spar-

I think someone on Blizzard watched Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer.

[SirBaron]

Spar-

I think someone on Blizzard watched Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer.

:o In an odd way, that makes sense.

[Remy]

I'm usually not one to argue game design with logic or realism, but hell, presentation matters dammit. Not to mention all plausibility going down the drain. Bad!

I lose my internet for a week and a half, I finally get it back up, now this. Why can't they feed us with more sci-fi BS to explain crap, rather than throwing in all this mystic crap that no one will like?

Zealots "dematerializing" to charge when it looks like just plain running was bad enough, but now we gotta have soul sucking hover robos. I really hate soul hunter design inside and out. Paragon's quick design is 10 times better, the other suggested names sound better too.

We also got cannons turning into ***** ghost fairies floating their asses to places like bloated Night Elf wisps. Can't they just warp/blink to their destinations? They really have to move the way they do? I mean, really?

I've always liked Toss least out of the three races, but never because of utter aesthetic gayness.

[Gold]

I'm usually not one to argue game design with logic or realism, but hell, presentation matters dammit. Not to mention all plausibility going down the drain. Bad!

I lose my internet for a week and a half, I finally get it back up, now this. Why can't they feed us with more sci-fi BS to explain crap, rather than throwing in all this mystic crap that no one will like?

Zealots "dematerializing" to charge when it looks like just plain running was bad enough, but now we gotta have soul sucking hover robos. I really hate soul hunter design inside and out. Paragon's quick design is 10 times better, the other suggested names sound better too.

We also got cannons turning into ***** ghost fairies floating their asses to places like bloated Night Elf wisps. Can't they just warp/blink to their destinations? They really have to move the way they do? I mean, really?

I've always liked Toss least out of the three races, but never because of utter aesthetic gayness.



hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa lol
so harsh, the soul hunter is the only silly thing to me, i dont like there looks or the way they move or whatever, the other stuff is cool though.
i hope they make zerg cool

[paragon]

I'm usually not one to argue game design with logic or realism, but hell, presentation matters dammit. Not to mention all plausibility going down the drain. Bad!

I lose my internet for a week and a half, I finally get it back up, now this. Why can't they feed us with more sci-fi BS to explain crap, rather than throwing in all this mystic crap that no one will like?

Zealots "dematerializing" to charge when it looks like just plain running was bad enough, but now we gotta have soul sucking hover robos. I really hate soul hunter design inside and out. Paragon's quick design is 10 times better, the other suggested names sound better too.

We also got cannons turning into ***** ghost fairies floating their asses to places like bloated Night Elf wisps. Can't they just warp/blink to their destinations? They really have to move the way they do? I mean, really?

I've always liked Toss least out of the three races, but never because of utter aesthetic gayness.

You sir deserve a power up for that. But I already gave you one somewhere else.

I had never thought of the phase cannons moving but it is rather dumb and instantly moving and then taking a little longer to rematerialize would make so much more sense and look so much better.

[Piretes]

Since I just registered on these forums, what is and how do I give a "power up"? I see the power level stuff all over, yet how does this work?

On topic, I think that there's nothing wrong with those "***** ghost fairies" as you delicately put it. What should it become then? See it as a sort of warp state, yet not thorugh the enternity of space but over ground. Not that I am an authority on this, but for me it seems rather natural.

I do agree on the "Soul Hunter" name. Sounds rather cheesy and juvenile, yet the mechanics of the unit iteself add a nice perspective. No reason to cut it. The animation looks good too, and the model looks great. The name though....

However, you, Remy, sure have a way with words :).

[hillzagold]

am i the only one who likes the soul hunter? seriously, everyone else has one part of it or another to ***** about.

[paragon]

Yes. You are the only one. They should be the Vindicator from Ghost.

[Remy]

I read about the leaked vid before watching it, and as soon as I read the part about cannons that can be moved, I envisioned it like how Paragon described it.

They should just give cannons warping animation, and make the process take as long as it needs for gameplay balance. During this process they can just make the cannons at the old location have a "beam me up scottie" animation and a blue warp-in "beam down" animation for cannons at the new location.

I think this is also what Paragon was talking about. Blue blobs of ethereal fart have no place in a Protoss base dang it!

[PrivateJoker]

I read about the leaked vid before watching it, and as soon as I read the part about cannons that can be moved, I envisioned it like how Paragon described it.

They should just give cannons warping animation, and make the process take as long as it needs for gameplay balance. During this process they can just make the cannons at the old location have a "beam me up scottie" animation and a blue warp-in "beam down" animation for cannons at the new location.

I think this is also what Paragon was talking about. Blue blobs of ethereal fart have no place in a Protoss base dang it!


Although I respect your perspective, I also think that for balancing reasons, that the phase cannons in energy phase mode works better, because it makes the phase movement FAR more risky for offensive manuevers. Think of it, if a pylon/phase prism are destroyed while many phase cannons are moving forwards, then the attacked is ruined. If instant teleport "FROM ANYWHERE ON THE MAP" occured, then you could hoard cannons in a safe location, move one phase prism to a sneaky corner, and then unfairly mass teleport an enormous battalion of movable pylons.

The phase energy mode carefully balances the power of these cannons, as the photon cannons as a defense structure, is universally effective!

Remember back in the day when Photon Cannons had a 20 explosive damage attack and cost 200 minerals? Also their range was shorter and they took longer to warp in? Cannons used to be one of the worst defense structures in the game, almost as bad as the useless sunken cannons which could be killed by a couple zerglings. lol

[Remy]

^ You misunderstood me.

I'm not saying I want actual "warp-in" type of movement for cannons, although you could already just summon a new one within remote pylon power with phase prisms. What you said can already be done in SC2 for the most part. I never said the relocation should be instant.

It can all just work the same for the most part, and limit the range. I just want them to find a different way of presenting it graphically.

[SirBaron]

They need to do something about the Soul Hunter, it looks ridicolouous.

[Nikzad]

power levels are increased or decreased by clicking the blue or red arrow under a person's avatar
It's basically a popularity contest, it doesn't get you 1337 H4X or anything if you get to a power level of 500

SirBaron, no offense but your attempt at spelling "ridiculous" is ridiculous....that's way too many vowels at the end there

soul hunters are t3h gh3y

[FlyingTiger]

Since I just registered on these forums, what is and how do I give a "power up"? I see the power level stuff all over, yet how does this work?

On topic, I think that there's nothing wrong with those "***** ghost fairies" as you delicately put it. What should it become then? See it as a sort of warp state, yet not thorugh the enternity of space but over ground. Not that I am an authority on this, but for me it seems rather natural.

I do agree on the "Soul Hunter" name. Sounds rather cheesy and juvenile, yet the mechanics of the unit iteself add a nice perspective. No reason to cut it. The animation looks good too, and the model looks great. The name though....

However, you, Remy, sure have a way with words :).


You also need 12 posts to power up or down in addition to what nikzad posted above.

I have to disagree with you a little because I also agree it looks aesthetically gay (haha nice wording remy ^_^) having the phase cannons magically float into other places. Wouldn't it make sense to have like them warping out and warping in (like it takes some time of course warping) in the battlefield. I mean think of it like the animation of the buildings warping in (see Stargate screenshot). We don't want some night elf crap in the protoss.

[Nikzad]

I agree that the soul hunter doesn't look good, but complaining about the warp "wisps"? Give me a break.

Assuming that this is the final look of how it will move, I have faith that Blizzard has concluded that these movement mechanics will be the most effective method, and that they have tested it fully (or in their case, excessively). So assuming they will use this method of being able to move the phase cannon, how else would they visually portray it?

A Protoss building in its first stages looks like a wisp. If anything, wisps from WC3 are rip-offs of Protoss buildings.

Take a Protoss building that has not been fully built.

Then give it the ability to move.

And there you have the model for the moving phase cannon.

[paragon]

Maybe if we form a petition to change the soul hunter to the vindicator they will listen. Look at Operation CWAL, that's famous and got a cheat code named after it and their name in the special thanks.

[FlyingTiger]

Maybe if we form a petition to change the soul hunter to the vindicator they will listen. Look at Operation CWAL, that's famous and got a cheat code named after it and their name in the special thanks.


oh what did Operation CWAL do?

[thitian]

lmao

this thread is really funny...

for all our sh haters did u think about the zerg players not wanting theyr lings mutate into lil balls?
we could cry too .. omg these balls arent round enough .. i dont like the green color hahahhaa

sh looks awesome to me and perfectly fits for the dark protoss using its arm thing to strenghten its psi-whatever drain
and to be fast + flexible using some kind of air-motorbyke...

i dont see why ppl complain about the ms as well .. its just protoss perfection.

anyways just wait for the final version it wont be bad :thumbup:

[coalescence]

oh what did Operation CWAL do?


It speeded up building and upgrades were done immideatly.

[FlyingTiger]

oh what did Operation CWAL do?


It speeded up building and upgrades were done immideatly.


oh i knew that but how did the cheat become opeartion CWAL. What did operation CWAL do to achieve its "fame"


Look at Operation CWAL, that's famous and got a cheat code named after it and their name in the special thanks.

[Remy]

Mindlessly accepting whatever's handed down just because it's from the oh so mighty Blizzard is rather sad IMO. Â*If that's how things worked Blizzard wouldn't need any external testing at all, screw non-Blizzard opinions right?

In the real world, criticism and competition is what drives the human race to better itself and advance to higher grounds. Â*Those that do not seek to constantly improve will fall by the wayside, even if it's Blizzard.

Arguing that the original Protoss building summoning animation is like NE wisps, and that it justifies phase cannon movement animation, is flawed logic. Â*So all vaguely circular sprites are all the same? Â*I guess spore colony's spores and guardian's attack were wisps too, what was I thinking?

With that kind of reasoning, we can just have Toss buildings slide around to move without additional animation or explanation, because they were already in the first game right? Â*Ultralisks can be made to fly in the air when it still looks like it's just walking on the ground. Â*Why even give it wings or make it beliveable at all when it's by Blizzard and hey, it already had the walking animation in SC1.

I wasn't too big on the story and lore of SC, but from how I understand it, the blue blob when summoning Protoss buildings are like portals or rifts in space to bring buildings in from Aiur. Â*In that sense, not only does it look stupid, it makes no sense to be able to freely move that around.

My point is, just because the graphical representation of Protoss building summoning back in the 2D original made in 1998 with limited technology is similar to the gay blob we have for phase cannons now, does not mean they are the same, connected in any way, or fits to explain or justify it.

EDIT: ^ Operation CWAL stands for "can't wait any longer."Â* I think it was a group of writers who was very eager for the release of the original SC that got together to voice that they wanted SC released sooner.Â* I think they wrote many humorous stories while they waited that gained popularity and fame.Â* They were a very dedicated group and eventually touched the heart of Blizzard I guess.Â* You can still find stuff about CWAL on the web.Â* This is just my limited knowledge of it and I don't know if any of this is accurate, someone please correct me.

[FlyingTiger]

Exactly my thought Remy. I don't know what else to add. Well put! :powerup:

Thanks for the info on Operation CWAL.

http://www.cwal.net/ <-- Google FTW!

haha and it seems like they are up at it again. The articles on the front page are hilarious ^_^.

[coalescence]

@FlyingTiger

My bad, must have misread that one.

[Nikzad]

Mindlessly accepting whatever's handed down just because it's from the oh so mighty Blizzard is rather sad IMO. If that's how things worked Blizzard wouldn't need any external testing at all, screw non-Blizzard opinions right?

In the real world, criticism and competition is what drives the human race to better itself and advance to higher grounds. Those that do not seek to constantly improve will fall by the wayside, even if it's Blizzard.

Arguing that the original Protoss building summoning animation is like NE wisps, and that it justifies phase cannon movement animation, is flawed logic. So all vaguely circular sprites are all the same? I guess spore colony's spores and guardian's attack were wisps too, what was I thinking?

With that kind of reasoning, we can just have Toss buildings slide around to move without additional animation or explanation, because they were already in the first game right? Ultralisks can be made to fly in the air when it still looks like it's just walking on the ground. Why even give it wings or make it beliveable at all when it's by Blizzard and hey, it already had the walking animation in SC1.

I wasn't too big on the story and lore of SC, but from how I understand it, the blue blob when summoning Protoss buildings are like portals or rifts in space to bring buildings in from Aiur. In that sense, not only does it look stupid, it makes no sense to be able to freely move that around.

My point is, just because the graphical representation of Protoss building summoning back in the 2D original made in 1998 with limited technology is similar to the gay blob we have for phase cannons now, does not mean they are the same, connected in any way, or fits to explain or justify it.


Who said anything about mindless acceptance? I said I had faith that they will have tested it enough to justify the mechanics of how you will be able to move it, be it within or outside of Blizzard.

Now I will admit that wisps looking like Protoss was a bit of a stretch, but what you said about all sprites looking the same and insinuating that I was saying that wisps look even remotely like spore colonies' spores or guardians' attack projectiles really wasn't necessary. You know they don't look alike, and you know that anyone who has played SC knows that they do not look alike. You took some liberties in that area of your post.

In regards to the bolded section of your post, however, I totally agree. In my previous post I was arguing for the mechanics of the "moving phase cannon" thing. You make a good point in that intergalactic summoning of buildings should not look the same as moving them around within the field of a pylon. I neglected to realize those physics of Protoss building construction in my previous post when I described the warp sprites as "a Protoss building that hasn't been fully built."

[Itsmyship]

C'mon guys, only 2 or 3 more pages to go and we'll have officially *****ed more about Soul Hunter than Marine Shield :P

[SirBaron]

SirBaron, no offense but your attempt at spelling "ridiculous" is ridiculous....that's way too many vowels at the end there
None taken, that's just one of the few words i got some serious problems spelling in English. :)

[Remy]

I've played through most of Blizzard's occasionally absurd patches on various games, and if you read some of my other posts you perhaps know that I don't find SC1 very perfect. SC1 was no doubt utterly awsome and one of my favorite games of all time, but still has things that I see that could be improved on. So, no, I do not share your level of faith in Blizzard's game crafting magic.

If there are things that need improvement, my opinion is, the community as a whole should always voice it. You might be right that the end results will be well acceptable, but this is not that time. Past Blizzard games have seen drastic changes during development, which is now for SC2. I think we should all voice our opinions rather than just waiting to accept the release product.

On the spores, I exaggerated to make a point. I just took what you said and showed you what it is if you take it one step further. If you agree summoning => wisp was a stretch, then surely you would understand that I was merely stretching your stretch. I think make a point I did.

On the mindless acceptance part however, I didn't mean to offend you, nor was it directed solely at you alone. Like I said, I'm more for voicing and criticizing than just all of us being loyal fans by default.

So... you're against gay blobs too now?

[hillzagold]

Maybe if we form a petition to change the soul hunter to the vindicator they will listen. Look at Operation CWAL, that's famous and got a cheat code named after it and their name in the special thanks.
ah ha, the vindicator? it looked like a zealot with a gattling gun. give me a dragoon anyday. the soul hunter is the first fast moving land unit for the protoss since the scarab

[paragon]

Protoss aren't fast. They are dreadnoughts of fear and terror walking menacingly onto the battlefield and dealing out massive damage and taking great amounts of damage while staring you in the face telepathically laughing at your pathetic attempt at combat.

[Nikzad]

nerdy voice
I fail to see the correlation between sexual preference and the way graphics in a video game appear
GLOYVEN!
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~orie1381/Frink.gif

jk ^_^

I agree, although I don't think they should totally reconstruct from the ground up how buildings warp in, they should think of something new for this new situation of a moving structure in the game.

[Remy]

Yea, just a new animation for relocation would shut me up on the ***** ghost fairies.

[hillzagold]

Protoss aren't fast. They are dreadnoughts of fear and terror walking menacingly onto the battlefield and dealing out massive damage and taking great amounts of damage while staring you in the face telepathically laughing at your pathetic attempt at combat.
that's the kind of thinking that lost aiur.

[DontHate]

i think they're pretty cool. i don't know what you think is wrong with em'. i mean they're just like a stalker.

[Itsmyship]

No dude....they are NOTHING like the stalker...Stalkers are ambushers who deal dmg equal to ALL units, not just organic ones, and they don't have to suck souls to do it. Soul Hunters are Grunt-looking Dark Templar that chill around on hoverboards and suck souls....there is a COMPLETE difference

[hillzagold]

speed is of the essence, biatch

[paragon]

Protoss aren't fast. They are dreadnoughts of fear and terror walking menacingly onto the battlefield and dealing out massive damage and taking great amounts of damage while staring you in the face telepathically laughing at your pathetic attempt at combat.
that's the kind of thinking that lost aiur.

I thought it was the fact that they were surprise attacked and aldaris and his fool conclave wouldn't take the necessary steps in time.

[hillzagold]

Protoss aren't fast. They are dreadnoughts of fear and terror walking menacingly onto the battlefield and dealing out massive damage and taking great amounts of damage while staring you in the face telepathically laughing at your pathetic attempt at combat.
that's the kind of thinking that lost aiur.

I thought it was the fact that they were surprise attacked and aldaris and his fool conclave wouldn't take the necessary steps in time.
no, it was because they thought that they were still top dog until it was too late.

[paragon]

yes, because of aldaris and the conclave.

[GuiMontag]

a complete overhaul of protoss technology is required for them to survive. In the original dragoons got pwnd by everything, when they where supposed to be like dreadnaughts rofl.

[paragon]

Dragoons didnt get "pwnd" by everything... I don't know what game you were playing but they're really good...

[hillzagold]

dragoons got pwned by siege tanks, that's about it

[paragon]

dragoons got pwned by siege tanks, that's about it

Yeah, and all ground units died if they got in range of siege tanks.

[Remy]

Goons weren't too hot going up against lings. They were my least favorite of all air attacking ranged ground units(hydra, marine, goliath).

But you shouldn't have just goons anyway, there are plenty other Toss units for taking care of lings. Goons were important to Toss and generally useful, it's their pathing A.I. that was pathetic.

[Major Willy]

Dragoons I find to be weak against Carriers, Siege Tanks, Battlecruisers, Reavers, Ultralisks, and Zerglings.

Now if only they didn't move like a grandma on steroids with one blind eye.

[FlyingTiger]

yea if you micro goons right, they are really good especially against battlecruisers, ultralisks, and goliaths. However they are mostly for support and anti-air anyways.

[GuiMontag]

dragoons were good for the amount of minerals it cost to build, but they did not live up to the fluff...

[drewcbarnard]

dragoons were good for the amount of minerals it cost to build, but they did not live up to the fluff...


It was how you used them in combination that made Dragoons effective. They really can be deadly depending on how you use them.

[DontHate]

No dude....they are NOTHING like the stalker...Stalkers are ambushers who deal dmg equal to ALL units, not just organic ones, and they don't have to suck souls to do it. Soul Hunters are Grunt-looking Dark Templar that chill around on hoverboards and suck souls....there is a COMPLETE difference

in terms of looks i meant.

[paragon]

Well you gotta put zealots with goons. If you don't you're just asking for it.

[PrivateJoker]

Dragoons USED to be one of the worst units in the game. I can't remember which patch overhauled them, but they used to be almost useless. They used to be LARGE, making it almost impossible to move them through areas that weren't VERY wide open, their attack range was shorter, their build time longer, they cost I believe 175 minerals, their attack damage was a different damage type, making them useless against alot of basic unit types. The range was so bad and their pathing and size so terrible, that they were barely effective against air. Dragoons used to be one of the worst units in the game. Protoss players would never make them, and relied exclusively on Zealots for the bulk of their army. After this less than fond history of the Dragoon, I personally DID NOT CARE AT ALL that they were being removed from the game.

[PowerkickasS]

aracgoonphoebia :O

[paragon]

I remember when dragoons sucked but that was a long time ago. This was when I would zealot rush and make sure they didn't get air.

[Protosscommander]

Wait, is the soul hunter is officially in the Protoss Units ?? :) thanks just asking :)

[Anubis_theDark]

No. I belive it was taken out. It looks like a necrin destroyer with a dark templar sort of look. I think it looks kinda lame and unoriginal for the protoss. The current list of units for protoss is : zealot, stalker, immortal, high templar, dark templar, twilight archon, observer, phase prism, colossus, pheonix, warp ray, carrier and mothership (probe as builder). so there is no soulhunter (thank God) and no reaver (it was a verry dumb unit and i think a new artillery unit would be good) and no tempest (replaced by the carrier - basicly a reskined tempest).

[Protosscommander]

Thanks for that Information my Friend :) :powerup: ^_^

[Anubis_theDark]

you're welcome :)

[longlivefenix]

the soul hunter is waaaaay gone now... i skiped a couple pages n thought this thread just got off topic (which it did)

but any ways the goons owned if they were fully uped, they did full dmg to everything, had a pretty long range and were pretty cheap to build, as long as they were backed up with zlots they could put up a fight

about the stalkers, i like them more then the goons... i imagine that they will be good against short ranged units like unupgrade rines, their blink ability rocks (hands down ownes) and if they keep the reavers they are gonna be fun to micro,

do the carriers now have the cool shields that the tempests had? i think they should just because it makes them more unique (but only if it requires an upgrade to get it), also if the scourges (the 'carrier killers') return it will be even more important to keep em around

i like the idea of a 'telsacoil' or a static ground defense for the terran that didnt take up population... its not so bad late game but its kinda annoyin in the beginning of the game

cant wait to see zerg!!!

[Anubis_theDark]

From what i know the tempest harden shield only worked against grount to air attacks ... so the scourge is out. About the defence structures ..indeed each specie needs some defences ... not to encourage turtleing but to put some tactics and strategy in the game. Haveing only those lame cannons/bunkers/colonies(in they remain) makes it verry easy for an attacker to win (we all know the carrier/battlecrusisser/hydra overwhelmin of the enemy). Warcraft had tactics with it's different attack types and armors and good defences. Starcraft remains a game were most of the time numbers count (i know about the psy storm or plague but belive me there are many ways to run)

[Remy]

@ Anubis_theDark, you left out the Stasis Orb.  But most people want it scrapped in favor of bringing back Star Relic anyway, so hopefully Protoss will get Star Relic instead of Stasis Orb in an upcoming build of the game.


but any ways the goons owned if they were fully uped, they did full dmg to everything


Actually, the dragoon dealt explosive damage, not normal damage.  Meaning the dragoon's damage was reduced by as much as 50% in many cases.  There is a long list of units that the dragoon deal reduced damage against.

[CodyFallsForth]

Goons did 50% to small units
75% to medium units
and 100% to large units

[Protosscommander]

Uhmm.. if the Soul Hunter is removed for me im agreed becuase in the name you can easily that its no fit name for a protoss, and infact Soul Hunter sound from the other game am i right ??? :)

[Anubis_theDark]

Yeah ... sorry i forgot the stasys orb - though the star relic is basicly a stasys orb with a bigger size - i don't like either of them. If there was a unit I would have liked to see in SC2 it was the Arbiter - they were the judicators in your army and their design was uber awsome - compaired to the arbiter the star relic is junk.
The soul hunter is a great name for a dark templar unit but the way the unit looked and almost everything about it was wrong (especialy the unoriginality of it's design) so the fact that it was scraped shows that blizzard still has some brains overthere:) .