Phase Cannon

[coalescence]

'unrootable' auto defenses? Damn they're really using their pool of warcraft III ideas :o Does anyone remember Ancient Protector?

[Fenix]

Yeah, but they kinda have to. No such thing as putting your back against the wall anymore. They've killed the chokepoint strategy.

[coalescence]

Good things, I hate turtles.

[Fenix]

Yeah, but a Reaver is like a sledgehammer to them.

But yeah, I'm glad they killed the chokepoint strategy. Makes the game more fun.

[Zombine]

Good things, I hate turtles.

but their so CUTE!

stupidity aside, turtleing is a valid strategy, and one i often utilize when playing protoss, because god knows you cant win in a rush. One particularly devious trick a friend showed me is 1 pylon, with photn cannons completely surrounding(really quite stupid, many times more pylons were used)

anyway, plop this down on the map, and let it loose.

also, movable defenses kinda makes me think in terms of a gate, you want units in? "open the gate" and let them pass by moving your defenses. then plop them down again.

[Meloku]

Im glad choke point defenses are gone =]

[sordid]

Well, we've only seen the protoss, and they are obviously being remade to be faster and more mobile

the Terrans might have even better choke defenses, who knows.

[gr3ykn1ght]

i don't think phase cannons can travel through the warp gate or be 'insignia'ed into the phase prisms, it's a building, man. and i think these phase cannons are weaker when their in phase mode, how else will they allow these cannons to move? i don't think blizzard will risk unbalancing the game until this extent.

but, criticisms aside (i'm a protoss player myself, wouldn't want to criticise my own race too much), i feel that phase cannons is really a good idea, in any case if somebody comes and backstabs your workers you can move 'em to the back and take care of the marine and reaper drops. kinda makes expanding for protoss safer, also kind of means you have to attack protoss bases from more sides than one, cos they can just move all their cannons to one side to wipe you out. either thatt of totally mass protoss bases until their cannons cannot take it. either that or strike em so fast their cannons won't have time to move.

anyway some questions:
1) what happens to these cannons if their in phase mode and the pylon powering them blows up?
2) what's chokepoint strategy? i don't really know the technicalities of the game, i just know how to play. don't flame me for being a noob for this :'(

[Associate]

unlike the Ancient Protectors these Phase cannons appear to travel much faster though, this feature shouldn't really affect the game balance provided they reduce its durability

[MyWifeforauir]

But as a theory if they could move from the place constructed to a power source (pylons/phase prisms) it won't be a immediate phasing. The cannons would need to travel to the place so strategies like phasing cannons to enemy's base may take a while since they cannons seems to move at a not so fast speed. And by the pylon powering the cannons do u mean the pylon powering the cannons before they phased or the pylons that will power them. The pylons powering them previously would make no difference i think but the pylons that would power the cannons are crucial and if it is destroyed the cannons have nowhere to phase to and will be effectively destroyed

[paragon]

stupidity aside, turtleing is a valid strategy, and one i often utilize when playing protoss, because god knows you cant win in a rush.

I've successfully zealot rushed people. And gotten enough zealots of counter zergling rushes. So, its definately possible cause i'm not even really good.

And I think phase and photon cannons will be different (possibly an upgrade to photon cannons).

[Ghost]

stupidity aside, turtleing is a valid strategy, and one i often utilize when playing protoss, because god knows you cant win in a rush.

I've successfully zealot rushed people. And gotten enough zealots of counter zergling rushes. So, its definately possible cause i'm not even really good.

And I think phase and photon cannons will be different (possibly an upgrade to photon cannons).


Making the phase cannons an upgrade from photon's (like sunken colony from creep colony) would make it more expensive bringing back the old: "You pay for what you get". Which is what the toss are all about.

[Zeratul]

I don't see them being an upgrade. As far as movement goes they're most likely limited. You can't use them as an attacking force anymore than you could in sc1 because (I'm assuming) they can only move whilst in the area of a pylon. The main use for them as far as I can tell is to help defend your base(s) from drops as was seen in the clip by the cannons moving back towards the minerals. It would help I guess in expanding a base outwards if there was a close multi nearby or the area your base is in is getting too crowded.

[Ghost]

Maybe turn their shield off while in movement?

[Zeratul]

Possibly a side effect of it. Not sure if it needs one though. It can't attack and therefore it is a disadvantage moving it if they are attacking whilst you move it.

[Ghost]

Sort of like moving siege tanks (sure they can attack but not as much as in siege mode).

[Zeratul]

You suggesting that the phase cannons can attack while in the moving form?
On my last post I was meaning to say that IF possible cannons should be strategically placed beforehand but IF neccessary they can be moved to help defend gatherers etc.

[MyWifeforauir]

dunno if anyone else noticed but in the video the phase cannons are getting red from the heat from the flamethrowers of the reapers. The top right. Once again like the death animations Blizzard is putting in minor details like this.

[10-Neon]

Wait a minute, flame throwers? I think you're right, could they have a secondary attack? We'll need to see the details in the high-res version to be sure...

[MyWifeforauir]

1:15 is the perfect time to stop the vid u will see the spurt of flame. And the cannons did become red right? or is it just me...

[PsiGlaive]

I'd say a good tactic if you can move them via prisms would be to move up some units to a foreward position and move cannons down to the area the warp prism is making to support your troops during an attack, of course this will leave the area you took the cannons from less defended!

Looks really cool actually, and I am with someone when I think that they will upgrade to have this warp ability.

[10-Neon]

Transport-able buildings...? Somehow I don't think that will happen.

[coalescence]

Well, terrans have transportable buildings, but I think PsiGlaives idea isnt gonna work with balancing.

[Gold]

anyone else notice how the transformation animation (lol) was a bit ****ed, it appeared for a second, then played the transformation, its really annoying me right now.

[PowerkickasS]

first appearance = shadow highlighting where you put it

what's wrong with psiglaive's idea? if phases cannons are strong enough to defend then they'd be strong enough to push (with support/meatshields of course....). do a dual-phase prism hop

[coalescence]

Buildings dont require pylons for control, so if the cap was set at 400 and you have sufficient money you could still muster a bigger attack force with all the phase cannons.

[NotDeadYet]

Maybe the cannon can only move a certain distance from the pylon whose energy field it was originally built in?

[coalescence]

Makes cannons completely obsolete when that pylon is destroyed, goes against what the phase prism is all about....

[Pix]

But the phase cannon would not be powered if it were out of the pylon energy/phase prism energy fields, so there's no worries of sn army of them - they would be severaly limited by Pylon area coverage...
Or am I missing something here? O.O
~Pix~

[Meloku]

Im guessing that the phase cannons need pylon power to maintain their energy form, if they leave it, they die.

also it appears that the flame throwers might have an effect on buildings, such as slowing attack rate, or additional damage, etc. Similar to the batriders from warcraft 3.

[coalescence]

You could use Phase Prisms too move LOADS of them to the enemy base.

Idea: Maybe they can only move over pylon fields?

[Meloku]

someone said that....

one post ahead of you. not to mention its common sense.

[coalescence]

I was already posting it, got occupied with someone else and then bashed the button a few times so I didn't see you post it a few minutes before me.

And about the common sense thing, I was making something clear to another one and I probably misread, happens even to me.

[zeratul11]

they turned into wasp (warcraft) and moved like one.

yes they can only be moved in pylon regions.

it would be unfair if they can be move anywhere . they will become additional units (not inculded in psi limit) if that is so.

[paragon]

Wonder if they can be attacked while moving to their new location... imagine some phasing away from some melee unit to avoid damange. I wonder if they could go up cliffs if the pylon field extends over the cliff.

[Zeratul]

Wonder if they can be attacked while moving to their new location... imagine some phasing away from some melee unit to avoid damange. I wonder if they could go up cliffs if the pylon field extends over the cliff.


My guess is no. I imagine they could be attacked while moving but not be able to go over cliffs.
As far as I see it they'd be bad as an attacking force because it just requires too much time that the enemies can retaliate before they could really do any serious damage.

[overmind]

i wonder if you could attach them to the phase prism field and be moveable in the field when the prism is moving?

[T-man]

i wonder if you could attach them to the phase prism field and be moveable in the field when the prism is moving?


When in pylon mode, the Phase Prism can't move. It essentially lands and makes a psi field.

[NotDeadYet]

I think he is asking if it would be possible to move Phase Cannons around using Phase Prisms.

You probably could, but since the cannons are so slow and moving them across the battlefield with Phase Prisms would require a massive amount of micromanagement, you'd be better off building units.

[paragon]

I just remembered that Dragoons were like weak moving photon cannons. They had the same attack (but less damange) but you generally made lots of them to make up for it. So, Phase Cannon replaces Dragoon? I mean sure the Immortal is the actual storyline replacement but the Immortal seems to have a slower and weaker attack.

[Zombine]

its a building, so its not going to have a tiny wounded zealot in it. ;)

[coalescence]

its a building, so its not going to have a tiny wounded zealot in it.


I hope you are joking, because that was not what he was saying....

[Zombine]

forgot the smiley face...

oops.

in all seriousness, i dont think the phase cannons move fast enough. i think the toss will rely on heavy support(reavers and mmortals) and blitzkrieg tactics like the soul hunters and zealots.

[T-man]

Also, from everything I have seen in the Phase Cannon segment, they cannot attack when phased into move mode. In addition, they have a transform time, so you can't expect to just roll in with a Phase Prism, and start blasting.
It'd be more: OK, let's move slowly, while taking tons of enemy fire. Then, when we get there, let's deploy, and still take enemy fire, so by the time we're set up, an SCV or two could kill the Cannons...

[LoserInLosing]

Y would u use phase cannons in replacement of units? Phase cannons arent units, u dont use an army of phase cannons... imean how silli would that be... an army of buildings.. i mean come on..

[mc2]

Well I've tried photon cannon rush before and it worked once, so people could mass phase cannons and use them like units. Yeah units will definitely be a better choice for offense and defense than static. And don't you think they made it too much like the siege tank's movement/attack method?

[Zeratul]

Well I've tried photon cannon rush before and it worked once, so people could mass phase cannons and use them like units. Yeah units will definitely be a better choice for offense and defense than static. And don't you think they made it too much like the siege tank's movement/attack method?


In some respects I guess..
It's similar but quite different when applied. Sure they'll be able to move like unsieged tanks and be able to deploy like siege tanks but they can't shoot while moving and they're restricted by movement presumably. So it's quite different in practice I think.

[T-man]

Y would u use phase cannons in replacement of units? Phase cannons arent units, u dont use an army of phase cannons... imean how silli would that be... an army of buildings.. i mean come on..


Ever heard of towering? ;)
It's a rather effective, although easily countered, strategy, and Phase Cannons make it even easier and cheaper to do. Instead of having a huge, costly line of towers stretching from your base to an enemies, just make two pylon cluster's worth, and leapfrog them across the battlefield.

[10-Neon]

That sounds like a Terran tank push. Except, the tank push is rally expensive because you have to support it with all kinds of anti-air and anti-infantry. Photon Cannons (and I expect, Phase Cannons to a greater degree) can attack everything, but you need a whole lot of them to hold off any decent army. I imagine a Phase push will emerge in StarCraft II, but make no mistake, it won't be anything like an unstoppable strategy.

[PowerkickasS]

they call it: scourge2prisms!
series no.2 was named: banes2pylons!

[Zombine]

series 3, nukes to all!

if a phase cannon is an upgraded photon cannon, then it will cost probably 200+ minerals. if theres 10(the smallest you could effectivly work with) per group, a nuke wouldn't be that insane of an idea.

[[LightMare]]

it's to early to say: zzzomg!!!112 unb4l4nc3m3n7!!! 11 !!!! ?! imp0ssib13. we haven't a clue on the other races. well, sort of, but that's not enough to form opinions

[wuffle]

stupidity aside, turtleing is a valid strategy, and one i often utilize when playing protoss, because god knows you cant win in a rush.

I've successfully zealot rushed people. And gotten enough zealots of counter zergling rushes. So, its definately possible cause i'm not even really good.

And I think phase and photon cannons will be different (possibly an upgrade to photon cannons).


Making the phase cannons an upgrade from photon's (like sunken colony from creep colony) would make it more expensive bringing back the old: "You pay for what you get". Which is what the toss are all about.


I have seen different animations in the videos for cannons. Therefore I believe he is right in saying that they will be an upgrade.The Phase cannons are balls floating on a circle, while the photons still have their cannons pop up. I don't think they would change the look of a phase cannon in that small amount of time.

[PowerkickasS]

it's to early to say: zzzomg!!!112 unb4l4nc3m3n7!!! 11 !!!! ?! imp0ssib13. we haven't a clue on the other races. well, sort of, but that's not enough to form opinions


if you're gonna start saying that then you gotta finish the job. copy/paste that to every other thread except the chat/spam areas kthxggbye RAWR! ^_^!"

[ZeiDjon]

I think it is a cool ability that you have to be able to move them back into your base or to the edge of your base, and i think that with 2 phaseprism you can push them to the enemy base and use them as support for your troops or atleast build them close to the enemy, they die instantly if they are moving and they loose power, otherwise they will just sit and wait to be powered up again, so i think they can come in handy, but i also think it is a tier 2 upgrade.

ZeiDjon

[Tankman131]

that will be cool to use the phase prism with them to deploy by an enemy and slowly creep into their bas4e