Reaver range

[Honus]

I'm sure most of you have probably seen the leaked PCGamer footage by now and I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed that in the short clip involving the reaver the range seemed smaller than it was in SC1. If you look closely, you can see that the reaver had to crawl beside the stalkers before it started attacking.

I found this rather interesting as the reaver is supposed to be the siege unit of the Protoss. If the reaver has indeed lost its long range, then it begs the question: Has the siege functionality of the reaver been replaced by another unit or is the range upgradeable? Or was there simply bad micro involved in the video? Personally, I believe that the range will be upgradeable. The PCGamer scans have probably revealed all Protoss units that will be in SC2 and none of the other units seem to be siege units in any way.

[[LightMare]]

we have discussed this already. well, the first part. the second, brings up a VERY interesting discussion topic. i'm not so sure about the range issue, with upgrades, but it's range has definately shortened, or it was being stupid, and had to get as close as possible to that reaper to blow it's brains to mars. you know AI can be a real pain

[PrivateJoker]

we have discussed this already. well, the first part. the second, brings up a VERY interesting discussion topic. i'm not so sure about the range issue, with upgrades, but it's range has definately shortened, or it was being stupid, and had to get as close as possible to that reaper to blow it's brains to mars. you know AI can be a real pain


You know how when the Reaver runs out of scarabs, and it starts to walk towards what it was thinking of attacking? Maybe blizz didn't change the stupidity of the Reavers. I would like to see some extra variety with the reavers...although I speculate that they will be essentially the same as they were in SC original.

[[LightMare]]

but smaller. and a bit faster

[paragon]

And not as pretty (see left for prettier Reaver)
I doubt that the Reaver has lost its siege function. What's most likely is that the AI needs a few things worked out.

[wuffle]

Warp Rays are seige. In the gameplay video he talks about how their attack is very effective against buildings. Since they can sit and attack as long as they want their damage will just keep increasing and increasing.

[Aeglos]

Hello, I just registered so I could ramble on about SC2, cheers to all.

I was reading this and looking at the Reaver in the video... and I wonder, what will be the Reaver's role in the Protoss army now? It seems to be siege only, since for what we have seen the Colossus has taken the mass unit killer place. So now the Reavers seem like ground Warp Rays of sorts, and indeed they might be... fast (or faster at least xD) hard ground hitters, or maybe not...

It just strikes as odd having two units performing overlapping tasks (Mass unit damage)... kinda goes against the classic Starcraft schema.

[Pix]

Welcome to the forums, Aeglos! :good:
To answer your question, first you should remember that as seen in the gameplay trailer, the Warp Ray can attack both air units and land units (with specific reference to buildings). Therefore perhaps the Reaver is for those times when complete air superiority is not yours and you want to attack with a strong unit to support your front lines, then the Reaver comes in where the Warp Ray would be slaughtered by the existence of enemy anti-air or swarms of air units. Plus, I can almost guaruntee that the Warp Ray will be more expensive than the Reaver, since the Price : Power ratio always factors in that freedom to move of the air units, bumping up their price without an increase in power necessary.
~Pix~

[PowerkickasS]

The PCGamer scans have probably revealed all Protoss units that will be in SC2 and none of the other units seem to be siege units in any way.

you can trust there will be none left to show once the probe gets described :P

[GuiMontag]

you cannot speculate on the range of the reaver because we dont know whether it moved into position becuase it was orderd to, or it was the AI. if you look at the other gameplay vids you should notice that blizzard hasnt showed how people would realy play, just showing how the units work.

[Pix]

Wrong. We can speculate, we just can't confirm. That's what we're doing all over this forum - speculating.
~Pix~

[Meloku]

Its possible that the reaver still has the same range, but simply might not be able to shoot around units anymore.
or as someone else pointed out maybee it was out of scarabs =]

[FlyingTiger]

hmm maybe here's an idea but it might be a bad anyways :P

maybe then can add some optional auto-scarab build function (like right clicking the attack to activate)when it runs of scarabs. I mean in SC1, they were only 10 minerals each. So this way your reaver won't become useless if you forget to keep up with the scarab prodcution! :D

yay less micro haha

[Nikzad]

I don't think that the colossus has taken the place of the "mass killer" as you say Aeglos

The colossus can kill a lot, sure, but I don't think it is a "mass killer" because it doesn't do area of effect damage. The lase from the colossus can attack one, maybe two units at a time, if the laser is in between two units. Psi storm and scarab explosions are both AoE, and can take out tons more units than the colossus

[coalescence]

What has it's range to do with it being a siege unit or not? A battering ram is also a siege unit, which has no range.

[Meee]

Good luck with that kind of ramming speed ;)

[Nikzad]

What has it's range to do with it being a siege unit or not? A battering ram is also a siege unit, which has no range.


well traditionally, siege weapons have always been to crumble the defenses from distance whereas battering rams are for knocking the door down...you're right, but aside from the battering ram (which was dangerous because you would be attacking the most well-guarded and booby-trapped with murderholes, etc, part of the castle/fort) I can't think of another one that isn't from range

[PowerkickasS]

well traditionally, siege weapons have always been to crumble the defenses from distance whereas battering rams are for knocking the door down...you're right, but aside from the battering ram (which was dangerous because you would be attacking the most well-guarded and booby-trapped with murderholes, etc, part of the castle/fort) I can't think of another one that isn't from range

is ultralisk a siege unit?

[coalescence]

well traditionally, siege weapons have always been to crumble the defenses from distance whereas battering rams are for knocking the door down...you're right, but aside from the battering ram (which was dangerous because you would be attacking the most well-guarded and booby-trapped with murderholes, etc, part of the castle/fort) I can't think of another one that isn't from range


Actually, a siege tower too.


is ultralisk a siege unit?


It kinda is, but in the sc gameplay it wasn't. Sucked too much.

[PowerkickasS]

well i loved it. nothing else countered the reavers very well

EDIT: someone should look up dictionary.com/wiki on siege. ive got them both favourited but im a sloth who doesnt make sense so i wont do it lol

[Nikzad]

@ Power - good question i think ultralisk can obviously be used to destroy buildings, but if (let's assume, for the sake of the argument) it wasn't specifically designed to destroy buildings, then I don't think it would be a siege weapon

@ coalescence - ahhh good one :good: - although I was assuming that in this sense (in the SC sense) we were talking about destroying rather than circumventing defenses (because then colossus could be consider one too)

[coalescence]

@PowerkickasS
3 four reavers force fire on a ultralisk is byebye ultralisk, which are kinda expensive (not that the ammo for a reaver is cheap, but that's another story ;D)

[wolfblood]

lol flying units attacking reavers while SV does EMP= BB reavers :D allthou i love reavers :D

[PowerkickasS]

@PowerkickasS
3 four reavers force fire on a ultralisk is byebye ultralisk, which are kinda expensive (not that the ammo for a reaver is cheap, but that's another storyÂ* ;D)

fine ill be a bit more discrete
ultralisks counters reavers best, in some certain situations.

[PrivateJoker]

well i loved it. nothing else countered the reavers very well

EDIT: someone should look up dictionary.com/wiki on siege. ive got them both favourited but im a sloth who doesnt make sense so i wont do it lol


Reavers were one of those magic units that could only be effectively defeated, unit cost wise, with unit mixes or very careful micro...regardless they always impose a danger, and a time sink for the opponent. Definitely one of the most original units in the game.

[PrivateJoker]

@PowerkickasS
3 four reavers force fire on a ultralisk is byebye ultralisk, which are kinda expensive (not that the ammo for a reaver is cheap, but that's another story ;D)

fine ill be a bit more discrete
ultralisks counters reavers best, in some certain situations.


Well the Reavers Scarabs blasts supplementing other units attacks would make quick work of any ground based zerg unit (especially with HT). I remember in original SC, I used to watch this professional Starcraft played play as protoss, he mastered micro with High Templar and Reavers, and would otherwise use Zealots for the bulk unit power of his army. (This was before Dragoons became good units, for those new Starcraft players, Dragoons used to be the worst ranged unit in the game)

[paragon]

On the topic of reavers, I wonder if they will be autocasting the build scarab ability.

[FlyingTiger]

Well the Reavers Scarabs blasts supplementing other units attacks would make quick work of any ground based zerg unit (especially with HT). I remember in original SC, I used to watch this professional Starcraft played play as protoss, he mastered micro with High Templar and Reavers, and would otherwise use Zealots for the bulk unit power of his army. (This was before Dragoons became good units, for those new Starcraft players, Dragoons used to be the worst ranged unit in the game)


I seriously don't remember the dragoon being the worst ranged unit at all. The attack is quite powerful (20 at both air and ground) and a lot of hit points (80 shield, 100 hp). It's just the range was ok (4 but upugrade 5). Compare it to the goliath which had an attack of 10 in ground and 20 in air and had 125 hp. Granted that it is 50 minerals cheaper and slightly longer range (5, but upgrade 6). And this is all before the patches or BW was out. So I dunno how u say it's the worst.

In my opinion, you really can't say any of it is the worse. Each has its ups and downs. Out of the 3 ground ranged support units (goliath, dragoons, hydralisk), i'd take the dragoons any day.

[FlyingTiger]

On the topic of reavers, I wonder if they will be autocasting the build scarab ability.


yea i really hope so... that'll be so nice to have. I'm sure there's a chance it'll happen.

[UchihaItachi0129]

On the topic of reavers, I wonder if they will be autocasting the build scarab ability.


yea i really hope so... that'll be so nice to have. I'm sure there's a chance it'll happen.


dude i love that. but it'll waste your minerals >.<

[paragon]

You could just turn the autocast off.

[FlyingTiger]

You could just turn the autocast off.


and plus they arent to expensive either (10 minerals!). Maybe a little more or less in SC2.

[paragon]

Also, if you're so poor that you can't afford the scarabs, you are probably losing anyways. Or you will be losing soon.

[UchihaItachi0129]

Also, if you're so poor that you can't afford the scarabs, you are probably losing anyways. Or you will be losing soon.

heh...not if you can make that sacarb and pwn those zerglings/marines/whatever they are XP lol

[mc2]

Even though reavers have lost their previous long range, they will still be a siege unit as long as the scarabs are similar to the ones in SC1. That means having a damage of 100+25 and the large splash damage area. Although the shorter range might be compromised with a shorter cooldown for them, SC1 reavers had a long cooldown. Also zerglings with upgraded adrenal glands is also a siege unit. I did an experiment and discovered that 12 fully upgraded zerglings and destroy a Hive (2500 HP) in 5 seconds!! (when the game is played at max speed) the results here: http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/index.php?topic=25.msg11469#new

So afterall it will still be a siege, possible compromise will be shorter cooldown and faster speed.

[paragon]

We don't even know if it's lost its long range and you are stating it as if it's fact.

[FlyingTiger]

yea those gameplay footages can be a little tricky. I still think the reaver will be the same in range. Reaver drop!

[gr3ykn1ght]

i believe in the gameplay video the reaver was moving forward to attack the bunker, but the marine came in tange and started shooting it. so it shot a scarab at it from close quarters and also blew itself up. ;D i think that kinda mean that reavers should have less hp, but i also noticed they move faster.

a complaint i hope blizzard should consider. they should DEFINITELY allow an autocast on the building of scarabs. many a time i've been assaulting bases happily with my 5 or so reavers, and when the enemy put up a counter attack, i was able to blow them up... until i ran out of reavers. then i was like **** and pressing hotkeys for scarabs (with about 5000 minerals left unused) and ordering them to start running, but by the time they actually turned around they blew up. *sob*