Zerg Hydralisk stab or spit?

[Code X Red]

If you recall the intro cinematic from broodwar, than you most likely remember the terran marine that was mutilated. In the video (if i am correct) a zerg Hydralisk jumps on an unsuspecting Marine and stabs him to death with its long claw/blades. But in the original starcraft during gameplay the Hydralisk spits acid spines that impale the enemy (no stabbing envolved). In Starcraft 2 should the hydralisk spit and slash? If so how would you suggest this be done? For example: Should the spines only be shot at flying units and the blades saved for ground units?

[[LightMare]]

spit. there are too many melee zerg units. we don't need another one

[Bullet101]

Both, I think if something gets into the Hydra's face, he should do a stab attack motion ( Same damage, just would be cool >.> )

[Shockwave]

spit. there are too many melee zerg units. we don't need another one


Agreed. At first I thought slash, because what is the point in having huge lethal blades then not using them and spitting acid? Then again:

Melee [Ground]: Zergling, Ultralisk, Drone, Infested Terran, Broodling.
Range [Ground]: Hydralisk, Lurker.

I see what you mean, ElemenTT.

[bazzwano]

that wasnt a hydro, that was a zergling, didnt you see the four legs. theres a hydro in the first terran vid.
But i must say i always thought the hydro has these massive claws but never uses them.. i think mayb it will have both in this one. have a ranged attack and a close claw... like the dawn of war system

also mayb they will have two types of hydros, notice the concept art they hav like 3 claws per arm so im pritty sure they are going to use a melee this time round if not both

Merged posts. Please read the forum rules and do not double post. 50 minerals deducted.

[Inside Sin]

Both, I think if something gets into the Hydra's face, he should do a stab attack motion ( Same damage, just would be cool >.> )


Would be cool... But unbalanced...

I suggest to leave it as spiting, it makes them more corrosive and venomous.

[mc2]

hydralisks don't stab even though they have claws. they always spit those needles which is more deadly :P and hydralisk is the ONLY ground unit that can attack air so it's VITAL that they maintain their ability to spit in SC2.

[wuffle]

Both, I think if something gets into the Hydra's face, he should do a stab attack motion ( Same damage, just would be cool >.> )


Would be cool... But unbalanced...

I suggest to leave it as spiting, it makes them more corrosive and venomous.


How is that imbalanced? He said same dmg. Just blade animation to look cool.

[10-Neon]

Well, Marines appear to be getting a secondary, melee-upgrade (bayonet) so I don't see why the Hydralisk could not get the same kind of treatment.

[MrFrancko]

I wonder why they have such huge claws then. They should redesign the hydra with no hands hehe ;p


I agree with this. There is no reason why you couldn't just have different animations. It would make sense. Why would they be spitting if the zealot is right in their grill?

[PrivateJoker]

Yea, what if their melee attack did identical damage amount and type as their range attack? It would just be an alternate animation and look more realistic.

[Major Willy]

If you look carefully in the original they don't spit, but they have flaps of skin that fold back and pulse out the acidic spines.

[Fenix]

If you look carefully in the original they don't spit, but they have flaps of skin that fold back and pulse out the acidic spines.


Semantics son. Semantics.

I think it'd be cool. Add to the gritty realism.

[hillzagold]

odd, i thought that blizzard already planned to give the hydra a melee attack in addiction to spitting.

[paragon]

Really... and where did you read this hillzagold?

[Ryan]

they spit acid, and i dont think they will give them the options of melee damage like the marines.(if they have it, i think its just an extra bonus for when a melee unit attacks it gets damaged or something).. I dont think they will give the same skill to another race. thats non existant out of every unit. they are all different thus the amazingness of this game.

[PrivateJoker]

they spit acid, and i dont think they will give them the options of melee damage like the marines.(if they have it, i think its just an extra bonus for when a melee unit attacks it gets damaged or something).. I dont think they will give the same skill to another race. thats non existant out of every unit. they are all different thus the amazingness of this game.


No, they actually spray spines, it just looks like they spit acid. Also people, please try to check your spelling just a little?

[Inside Sin]

Both, I think if something gets into the Hydra's face, he should do a stab attack motion ( Same damage, just would be cool >.> )


Would be cool... But unbalanced...

I suggest to leave it as spiting, it makes them more corrosive and venomous.


How is that imbalanced? He said same dmg. Just blade animation to look cool.




Ahhh. My fault, i thought he meant when they get close, they do spikes aswell. So you could have them do melee and ranged.

[FlyingTiger]

I think in the beta version of starcraft, the hydralisk used to be able to melee attack and do range. I could be wrong tho lol.

haha yea it sounds like they are spitting acid. Should they try having a different sonud for spitting spikes?

[MrFrancko]

The spikes should make a really good blade to flesh hacking sound.

[gr3ykn1ght]

they spit acid, and i dont think they will give them the options of melee damage like the marines.(if they have it, i think its just an extra bonus for when a melee unit attacks it gets damaged or something).. I dont think they will give the same skill to another race. thats non existant out of every unit. they are all different thus the amazingness of this game.


No, they actually spray spines, it just looks like they spit acid. Also people, please try to check your spelling just a little?


yeah, they spray spines out in a propel like way, the acid's used to propel the spikes. anywway, i think hydralisks should have moth melee and ranged skills, it just looks cool.

[capthavic]

I think it should be both because like they said what's the point of having claws if you don't use them?

[paragon]

I think it should be both because like they said what's the point of having claws if you don't use them?

so they can balance themselves?
or to help walk?

[zeratul11]

so how do they fight? like theres a command button for switching attack, spit or claws? and what would be the damage output by both? if you are facing marrines i dont think hydra should go melee, whats the use they are also range in the first place. so why need to use claws? for melee opponents like zealots?

@paragon, yes in the movies they use their claws to help them move or sprint. or they don't? anyway. but in the in game mode, they move without using them, they just sprint like nagas. maybe they could change it in starcraft 2. maybe we can see them sprint with the help of their claws.

[Ghost]

If it can be lag free, make them have two attacks, exact same thing, diferent animation, also, i would not be surprised if they gave the hydras a DoT passive attack.

[zeratul11]

nice sig. there are many nice cool sigs on this forum.i think this forum needs a sig contest. wow we have the same avatar but mine with the glowing eyes.

[DontHate]

i don't think the stab idea is very good. how will it switch between stabbing and spitting? what if you want to spit some marines but u accidentally stab em? it just is pretty dumb imo. Leave it the way it is, no need to add in any special things.

[paragon]

Oh I know, they use them to dig those holes they burrow into.

[Major Willy]

Or if an enemy unit is right next to them they don't shoot the spines but slash instead for the same amount of damage. Same attack cooldown too. Only shoot the spines when the target is at a distance or an air unit.

[paragon]

Or if an enemy unit is right next to them they don't shoot the spines but slash instead for the same amount of damage. Same attack cooldown too. Only shoot the spines when the target is at a distance or an air unit.

This would be cool and not change the function of the unit at all.

[L0ck and L04d]

Of course it would be grity ever since I got starcraft 6 years ago ( yes I know its kinda late but it took starcraft2 10 years to be anounced so i woulding be saying anything) Ive been wondering: WHAT THE HELL IS A THING LIKE THAT DOING WITH CLAWS LIKE THAT IF IT JUST OPENS ITS CHEST CAVITY AND HYDROLICLIY PROPELES SPINES THAT IT MAGICALY GENERATES!?!?! I'd bet it was just to look cool but hey i'm all ears towards mele when they get to close, that would be AWSOME! :good:

[ImaGiNe.]

The image of the Hydralisk is supposed to be menacing. I would not want to be fighting that mother, however in the StarCraft Game World, having a long-range unit function as a short-range (melee) unit kind of defeats the purpose. That is why you must accompany your Hydralisks with Zerglings and the like. But if were made that way, shouldn't Marines gain the ability to bash with their rifles? Ghosts too?

I think that the slashing and bashing is best left in the books. 8)

[Ghost]

shouldn't Marines gain the ability to bash with their rifles? Ghosts too?


Hell, why not?

[paragon]

Actually, why would something (such as the hydralisk) use it's claws if it has acid spines that it shoots?
Anyways, claws are for burrowing.

[burkid]

claws for burrowing, yes. the hydra has sort of scythes that really could only be designed for combat.

[Ghost]

god, it would take a creature of that size ages to burrow with scythes, unless it burrows like dragons. (look it up)

[paragon]

Actually snakes will burrow with their tail/body so I guess the hydra could do this. But claws would still be faster.

[burkid]

its probably the body thing with the hydra because the scythes would just poke holes in the ground.

[Ghost]

its probably the body thing with the hydra because the scythes would just poke holes in the ground.


Probably a combination of both, scythes soften the soil to make it easier for the snake/dragon-like burrow.

[burkid]

i could agree with that.

[Ghost]

i could agree with that.


Yea, well, if I were a hydralisk thats what I would do.

[paragon]

well it loosens up the dirt. That dirt on some of those planets is probably pretty hard. And especially the metal on platforms. Surely can't shake around a tail for that one.

[Ghost]

And especially the metal on platforms. Surely can't shake around a tail for that one.


MEGATAIL!

[burkid]

corrosive slime on the tail.

[paragon]

Or the acid spines it uses for it's main attack. Just a couple volleys then a few punctures with the claws and then the tail goes to work.

[Ghost]

Or the acid spines it uses for it's main attack. Just a couple volleys then a few punctures with the claws and then the tail goes to work.


Taking into account that their hides would have to be acid proof like the aliens from the Alien saga.

[burkid]

Taking into account that their hides would have to be acid proof like the aliens from the Alien saga.

well just to store the spines in their chest theyd have to be acid proof.

[Ghost]

Taking into account that their hides would have to be acid proof like the aliens from the Alien saga.

well just to store the spines in their chest theyd have to be acid proof.


No, out stomach stores digestive acids and they would burn our skin if it made contact with it, the only thing stopping it from burning out stomach is the mucus our stomach is laced with in the inside.

[paragon]

But if that were the case, hydralisks would be immune to other hydralisks. So, they probably just spit it on the ground and are careful not to get it on themselves.

[burkid]

oh i hadnt thought of it that way.
if you want to take the idea further, if their hides were acid-proof, wouldnt that make them take reduced damage from other hydras?

[Ghost]

oh i hadnt thought of it that way.
if you want to take the idea further, if their hides were acid-proof, wouldnt that make them take reduced damage from other hydras?


Thats right, but maybe each hydras acid is particular to itself, like our immune system.

[burkid]

that way there would be a sort of 'rejection' from another hydra, therefore still causing damage...

[Ghost]

that way there would be a sort of 'rejection' from another hydra, therefore still causing damage...


yea, lets just drop this one lol.

[L0ck and L04d]

yep, and to finish to strange conversation lets all agree that claws are just for burowing(with help of a mega tail) and looking badass!

[mc2]

There are numerous inconsistencies between the actual in-game hydralisks and the ones in a cinematic. According to the cinematic, a hydralisk would stab with the claws because, well, that's just common sense for a ground zerg creature. In game though, Blizzard needs to balance the units with other races so Hydralisks can't stab because it's a ranged unit, not a melee one

[PainKiller]

As you guys may know the Hydralisk is just a snake like unit whith no feets. They use the claws to move! You can see that in the second moive in Zerg campaign(normal StarCraft) and it allso make sense. i guess :)

Melee attack would kick ass though! They can't only use the claws for moving..! why should they fire needles against a Zealot who are sleshing their limbs of!

[L0ck and L04d]

ok ok maybe you guys misunderstude me, you might not like this but what if the hydralisk would use its neddles and attack air targets BUT if the hiest priority target was meleing it or was right infront of it, it would just default to slash just for the look, there would be no difference, the hydralisk would still be attacking it would just look differently for the suucumstances just like the fact that marines die in different ways depending on the surcumstances( ex: nuke, marine explodes zealot, sliced in half or whatever)

[paragon]

I think a few of this said it would be fine if it was purely visual as you say.

[L0ck and L04d]

FINALY some one that apreciates my genius! I'm gona go to a post you started and give you some power!

[Ghost]

Lol.

Well bottom line is, if its purely visual and doesnt generate lag or delay awsome, if any of the previously mentioned occur, hell with it.

[paragon]

If something like that caused lag (this causing lag is actually impossible but I'm just entertaining the notion) then the coding for the engine would be so bad, units wouldn't even be able to attack at all without lag.

[burkid]

hydras in the sc1 alpha meleed ground units

[L0ck and L04d]

realy? hmmm...

[Ghost]

If something like that caused lag (this causing lag is actually impossible but I'm just entertaining the notion) then the coding for the engine would be so bad, units wouldn't even be able to attack at all without lag.


Hmm i c, thx for the info paragon. So then it would be alright i guess.

[DontHate]

this is like asking why can't a mutalisk eat something with it's mouth or a drone to attack with it's pincirs. The claws on the hydra are just cosmetical. They wouldn't attack with them becuase there is no use and besides, they're probably really slow at sliceing and don't do as much damage as a god damned spike trhough ur body.

[L0ck and L04d]

well I guess but...why dosent the hydralis have claws then I meen it defies volution in every way possible.

[Ghost]

Yeah it does aswell, but I like the hydras how they are so I dont really have a problem with them having useless scythes lol.

[PowerkickasS]

5 pages and the development of this topic is still at like stage 1 o.O

acid + spine for acid penetration > a claw :D
hydralisks are 1337 zerglings cause they got promoted and using their claws = dragging themselves back down to a low of a mere zergling o_O

hows that for a slightly off-topic jump!?

[drewcbarnard]

I agree..this topic will continue to go on and on, but giving the hydralisk a melee attack ability is pointless...it's bad enough that it spits and doesn't swallow... :P

[PowerkickasS]

i really dont know how your mind even hint itself hydralisk + swallowing.....lol?
that is some freaky fetish ._.

[stizur]

Lol power you missed that joke so bad ;D

[paragon]

If you have a fully loaded Glock G-18 and you want to kill someone in front of you will you shoot them in the face or pistol whip them a bajillion times until they die?

[L0ck and L04d]

Well I guess but if a thing was running towards you and you had a loaded colt 45. , you would shoot it but when it like came withing 1 meter(like i duno 4 feet) of you you wouldint keep firing because you woulding have time to aim and problably hit it?

[burkid]

i think this is more like, you have a sword and a glock. you shoot with the glock until they get close. then you whip out the sword and slice and dice.

[UchihaItachi0129]

lol kinda like lego he shoots his bow and when the orcs come near he uses his swords

[DontHate]

it would also be pretty awkward seeing the hydra attack with the sythes. when i picture it in my mind i think of hte hydra swining his arms up and down like a maniac.

[paragon]

it's not that hard to hit someone a meter in front of you. Hint: shoot at their chest.

[L0ck and L04d]

if the hydra did have a mele attack it woulding be some creppy repetitive thing like mele attacks un starcaft, it would be several different attacks that did the same damage and looked cool and not stupid, like the zealot( they stab from time to time )

[Major Willy]

I read that post a few times and I still don't understand it.

[DontHate]

hmmm... well he starts off saying it will be crappy like the zealot animation but then he says it looked cool and not stupid. i think he's trying to say it will look crappy.

[Major Willy]

I'd love to see a pair of Hydralisks in the middle of some Marines cleaving them in half.

[L0ck and L04d]

Let me be the first to say that I think this post is a falliur because we havent learned a thing and where at page 6

[FlyingTiger]

eh its just speculation. no need to learn anything here ^_^

[AvantGuardian]

If you have a fully loaded Glock G-18 and you want to kill someone in front of you will you shoot them in the face or pistol whip them a bajillion times until they die?


Non-sequitur. The blades on a Hydralisk are something like three feet long, and surely would do more damage than a spine.

[Star-Crap]

Heres my 2 cents...

If they do make them stab close by enemies it should take more damage than the acid (Id rather get acid in my face than one of those 3 ft sythes)

But i think this whole melee attack is pretty stupid if it would do the same damage as spiting.

leave as is

[paragon]

I think this is another line between realism and fun - fun wins. Making it realistic (two different attacks with different damage) would change their effectiveness and use and the use and effectiveness of other units and not in a good way and so fun wins out

[marinepower]

What if hydras always did 10 damage, but it just depended on how close the attacking unit was to them. If it was a zealot they would claw it, doing 10 damage, but if they were farther away they would use spines 10/2= 5 damage. Equals out in the end since they are a lot more vulnurable at close range.

Bat:Marines, move aside, this is a man's job.
Marines: yeah, be our guest (snicker snicker).
Bat: ****! When did hydras learn to use those giant scythes attached to their arms!?!?! (bat stims and runs away ;D)

[Darktemplar_L]

I think, that if a melee unit or if any ground unit gets close enough to the hydralisk, then the hydralisk can slash them with more damage then spines. Then if its far away then they can spit.

[opm]

i think it is inevitable that the hydralisk needs to upgrade to compete with the other races. It has to be both in my opinion. I have to just accept the fact that SC2 will just have a myriad of different units, that will only slightly resemble what I'm used to.

[10-Neon]

I don't understand why everyone assumes anything having to do with the Hydralisk is acidic. I swear, you guys must go around avoiding grass and bottles of Mt.Dew for fear of having parts of your body burned off. Yes, they're green, but there's nowhere in the game that states that they're acidic. Anyway, the worst acids are clear....

I think giving the Hydralisk a melee attack can be justified by the fact that it fires its spines from its upper carapace plates: it can't angle the plates downwards, so it can't nail units that are right on top of it: that's where the claws would come in. I wouldn't just make it a different animation fr the same attack though; I'd make it slower but stronger, perhaps dealing equal or less damage to the spine attack over time.

[Star-Crap]

Does it really matter?

Hydras Spit. They work better that way.

teh end

[privateparts]

Does anyone know for sure if the Hydralisk is even going to feature in SC2? And if it is can you link me to where this has been mentioned?

[Star-Crap]

the main site. they show a concept picture of one.

[JudicatorPrime]

What is it if not acidic?

Btw... It's claws are for burrowing?

[Playboy]

Taken from the Starcraft adventure game with Alternity rules (as official as it can be).

Attacks:..................A...................G... .............O
Claws...............1-3, d4+2w.....4-6, d4+1w...7-12, d4w
Needle Spines....1-2, 2d6+3w...3-5, d6+3w..6-11, d6+1w

Example. If the dice result of an attack roll (d20) is 5, the needle spines do d6+3 wound damage.

Text: The bloodthirsty Hydralisk tends to fight from a distance, launching wave after wave of spines from its upper carapace. The spindly, snake-like creatures house hundreds of armor piercing spines within their carapace plates.

And yes I would like to see both melee and ranged attacks for Hydras and Marines. It would be hard to implement it though (unless its just a cosmetic change).

[qOcOp]

Yes they should claw when something is close. it looks stupid when something is right in front of them and they are spitting. it should just be an animation change though, nothing else.

[L0ck and L04d]

you know I posted some thing like this like 5 sections ago and every body l liked it, but then some body said it was stupid and then every body joins his sideand were back to scare one, thats the magic of capitalisim, mob therapy, and the joy of democracy.

[JudicatorPrime]

Marines should learn to bash with their shields when enemies get to close, making the shield upgrade usefull and not just a health boost.

It'd be nice if the Hydra's stabby clawy thing was more passive and only when enemies get too close if they ever implemented it, otherwise I'd just switch them to melee combat and attack... And then it'd make that scene with the Zealot vs. Hydra make sense

[Deadpool]

if u ask me on the hydralisk there should be a button well 2 buttons if u click 1 its 4 melle and the other is for spit so if i click the melle button itd only melle untill i change its attack to spit although i think even if its on melle mode if i command it to attack a flier it should still be able to do that whithout me havin to change it(i apollowgise for my bad spelling)but i dont think the zerg need another melle class

[timedragon888]

I think the change should be auto (as in when the enemy is far away the hydra will spit while when the enemy approaches the hydra will slash with its claws). But the melee attack should be stronger because i mean, ranged attack has an advantage over melee attacks because the ranged attacker gets to shoot a few times before the melee attacker can run over to it and start attacking, so since melee is at a disadvantage, they should make the damage stronger.

[StormCrow]

There are two things that make the Hydralisk different from the Zergling. Its' looks and the fact that it spits on ground and air targets. If it was melee, they would be too similar. They are fine as they were in SC1 imo. Except that they should be able to swim over waterpools.

[L0ck and L04d]

THATS BLILIANT! THE ZERG SHOULD BE ABLE TO SWIM, unless of course that whatever there made of is to dense and they sink.

[privateparts]

I remember clearly somewhere that it says they have an acidic attack. I think it was the game manual or strategy guide.

[burkid]

i just checked the manual. it just says "The spindly, snake-like Hydralisks house hundreds of armor piercing spines within their upper carapace plates."
nothing about acid.

[privateparts]

Oh. Maybe I was hallucinating.

[Joneagle_X]

Hydralisks have never been described as being poisonous. I remember somewhere that Zerg blood is supposedly kinda acidic, but I'm assuming it's not enough to burn through metal or anything....

I think a cool animation for close-combat fighting would be fine so long as it was aesthetic and not any different from the spine attack. I mean the entire point of SC2's graphics is to build on the way the units move. Like the Zealots... now they run kinda funny and have a completely different attack animation... only fair other units get them too.

I'm also assuming there will be some major adjustment in all of the Zerg units just like there were with the Protoss. Although the Terran base units were suprisingly lacking really effective new features. Also, of course there will be Hydralisks in SC2. That's like taking out the Zealot.

[Gasmaskguy]

yeah, taking out the hydralisk would be like taking out the dragoo... i mean the fireba... i mean the reav... OMG THEY ARE GONNA SCRAP THE HYDRA

[MarineCorp]

NO don't scrap the Hydra they are awesome plus they are one of the most important Zerg unit ever since they attack air as well as ground but back to the topic i think Hydralisks should just spit, it's their kind of style, there are too many melee units for Zergs

[Gasmaskguy]

dont tell ME to not scrap the hydra...

[MarineCorp]

... am i telling YOU to scrap the hydra?? hmm?? ;D

[Gasmaskguy]

omg read properly. you are telling me to NOT scrap the hydra. wich makes no sense. i dont decide the faith of the hydra.

[MarineCorp]

No i am telling BLIZZARD not YOU

NO don't scrap the Hydra they are awesome plus they are one of the most important Zerg unit ever since they attack air as well as ground but back to the topic i think Hydralisks should just spit, it's their kind of style, there are too many melee units for Zergs


If you read more deeply then you'll understand but please we are not allowed to argue in this forum website :) make love not war

[Gasmaskguy]

okay sry... :-)

[Joneagle_X]

Ummm.... They took out the Dragoon despite the fact that it attacked both ground and air and replaced it with the Immortal, a short-ranged ground-only attacker.... They could very well remove the Hydralisk, but I think it would severely hamper the way that the Zerg play.

[burkid]

actually, the immortal only replaced the dragoon in the lore. Gameplay wise, the stalker is the dragoon replacement as its the gateway GTG and GTA unit with decent range. blink is just icing on top.

[Joneagle_X]

Well they made two walkers to make up for the Dragoons, but still, the Immortal was supposed to be the "replacement" for the Dragoon.

[burkid]

which is why i say "the immortal only replaced the dragoon in the [b]lore".
for functionality, the replacement is the stalker.

[Joneagle_X]

Lol. Okay, okay ;). So the Dragoon has just become a tank-killer pretty much, eh?

[-LT-]

Lol. Okay, okay ;). So the Dragoon has just become a tank-killer pretty much, eh?
Yes
Maybe hydras will be replaced by some other better unit? ???

[Joneagle_X]

Well that was my point, replacing the Hydralisk with a "better" unit would mean a unit with better capabilities than the Hydralisk. The same goes for the Dragoon and the Immortal... I would assume that the Immortal, in replacing the Dragoon, would have greater capabilities instead of becoming even more specialized. It just seems backward from the mentality of the Protoss' development of Technology. They traded flexibility from power. That sounds more like Terran.

[burkid]

which is why i said the true replacement is the stalker. its more flexible. and can do everything the goon could, and then some.

[Joneagle_X]

Sorry Burkid, I don't think you get what I mean... I don't mean that the Dragoon doesn't have an adequate replacement.....

Lemme transpose it to Zerg ;) Maybe I'll be clearer because I understand them better.

Say Blizzard gets rid of the Hydralisk and introduces the Suckalisk. This Suckalisk is the evolved version of the Hydralisk, it's bigger, badder, and further up the evolutionary ladder.

Now let's say this Suckalisk doesn't fire at air targets, it has a lot of armor, but it has a definitive weakness, just like its predecessor. It also moves slower than the Hydralisk and has become a beast of burden for the race.

Now, if Zerg was "replacing" the Hydralisk with this unit, it would be better, not slower, more clumsy, and more likely to die. Even though there is now a different unit, say the "Yetilisk" that shoots both and and ground, moves faster, does less damage but fires faster and has a tunnel ability, it's still not the "replacement" for the Hydralisk. Even though gameplay-wise it is, it's still not it's replacement.

Hope I cleared that up lol. BTW I get what you're saying Burkid and agree with you. They could have TOTALLY eliminated this problem by saying the walkers were the replacements for the Dragoons and the Immortals were new.

[burkid]

The direct replacement for the dragoon, gameplay wise and in functionality is the stalker.

The immortal, however, is a completely new unit that is replacing the dragoon only according to the 'lore' of starcraft, its own personal history.

So the immortal isnt the new dragoon, the stalker is.

[Eye_Carumba]

The immortal is the base-invader-tank, that halves cannon's dmg while they carve their way inside protoss defenses.

And just so you all know, evolution doesn't work like that. I'm a biologist, so I would know that ;-) Even though Starcraft uses "evolution" kind of like this, it can be also interpreted otherwise.

Evolution mean change, into other new things, not necessarily better, as "better" in evolutionary terms is very relative. That's why zerg larva can evolve into other forms: it not necessarily is better, but it changed from it's later form to a new one with diferent capabilities. Oh, and sry for the lecture! ;-)

BTW, as a response to the topic question: I think they swallow! o_O

[Gasmaskguy]

you dirty little hamster

[PancakeChef]

I may be wrong but Hydralisks don't "spit" at all do they? I remember reading in the manual or something else from Blizzard that they launch these spines from their carapace with corrosive acid or whatever they generate.

In the game though, it does look like they are spitting.

[Gasmaskguy]

yeah i know to, spines, really annoying since it both sounds and looks like their spitting!

[Joneagle_X]

Actually, pancake, I think we discussed that earlier in this thread. They fire armor-piercing spines, but nowhere is it said that the Hydralisk is poisonous.

[PancakeChef]

Okay, sorry I didn't read much of the previous posts so I didn't know.

Well, to be an ass for detail, corrosive acid isn't nesscairly poisonous, its just a dissolvent. Hence, why could be used for "piercing armor."

I only say this though because in the game they shoot that green stuff along with the spines.

[Joneagle_X]

Right. I haven't seen anywhere that this "green" stuff is corrosive, poisonous, or in another other way dangerous. I have heard that Zerg blood is supposedly acidic, but nothing enough to eat through metal, etc...

[BnechbReaker]

spit for range, stab for melee

[Joneagle_X]

Well we've had this discussion in this thread a lot already.

We've pretty much come to the agreement that the "stabbing" of units that are very close is just an animation, kind of like the new Zealot animations... It would be NO different from the spines being shot.

[privateparts]

I think similiar to Dawn of War every unit in SC2 should have meelee and range animations, unless of course they are purely melee. Unlike Dawn of War JUST animation changes, not actual damage changes.

[Eye_Carumba]

It would be better for them if they could have extra dmg to melee attackers. It would kind of enhance their role as ranged unit, while making it tougher to the usual counter to them. And it would be a lot cooler! ;-)

[Major Willy]

As (I think) mentioned a few times, it should just vary depending on what they're attacking.

A Zealot in front of them. Slashing for the same damage as spines.
A Marine at a distance. Firing spines.
A Banshee above them. Firing spines.
A Viking (air form) retreating. Firing spines.

[slugonice]

The Hydralisks originally stabbed but then new breeds of HYDRALISKS evolved with the spitting stuff.
The hydra in the trailer was an old generation hydra

[Joneagle_X]

You gotta be kidding me, slugonice.

Your post makes no sense at all. Only in SC1 beta did the Hydralisks have a melee variation. And the cinematic was simply to add effect.

Check your sources.

[hillzagold]

i thought it was confirmed long ago that hydras would have a melee attack...oh well.

i think that hydras should have a melee attack. after all, those claws they hav eshouldn't just be for show. the melee attack would do slightly more damage then the ranged attack (maybe 2 or 3 more), therefore making them somewhat useful but still inferior to the spit attack unless they're fighting melee enemies

[Joneagle_X]

When was it established that they would have a melee attack that was for more damage than their ranged attack?

That really doesn't make sense in terms of balance if a ranged unit has a more powerful melee attack. That would make them have pretty much no weakness.

[hillzagold]

2 damage really isn't that much, is it? they do slightly increased damage, but they lose their ranged attack, their ability to fire in volleys and such.

[Wlck742]

Well, claws are probably much faster than shooting spines. I've never tried shooting my spines ar anyone, but assuming that claws are faster, and that there is a two point damage increase, that two extra damage adds up very quickly, to the point where range becomes obsolete when attacking compared to the additional damage.

[hillzagold]

but the great thing about ranged is that you can get shots off of melee guys and not get hit back for a while. enough hydras could kill zealots before they even get close

[Joneagle_X]

Yes, but I think the general consensus was it was only fair if the melee attack was simply a different attack animation if the unit was very close. The damage and cooldown would be no different.

It doesn't make sense to have a unit be ranged and then in melee combat have it be stronger.

[Gasmaskguy]

but the great thing about ranged is that you can get shots off of melee guys and not get hit back for a while. enough hydras could kill zealots before they even get close


how fair is is then if hydras kick their asses even more when they get to melee range? Does not make any sense.

[PancakeChef]

A unit with both ranged and melee attacks that are very powerful would be a bit overpowered in my opinion, its either high range, low melee or vice versa, or either just have either ranged or melee.

[Joneagle_X]

Sorry, Hillz, you're wrong on this one.

You can't have a ranged unit that is even more dangerous in melee combat. Not a good idea. They'd be the perfect counter for any and all land-based units. Their only weakness would be long-range units.

[hillzagold]

ever played dawn of war? space marines did more damage in melee, but it was still better to use ranged attacks as much as possible (unless of course, the enemy sucked at melee, and you forced him into a fist fight)

[Joneagle_X]

No I've never played Dawn of War, but in a game like Starcraft where a ranged unit's weakness is melee, you can't make it stronger at melee. Lol.

Maybe if you made the hits stronger but the cooldown longer........

[hillzagold]

weakness is melee? i dont see what you're talking about. the hydras weakness is not melee, but units more powerful then itself. it can still use it's regular attack exactly the same when someone is using a melee attack on it

[Joneagle_X]

Hydralisks are countered very nicely by melee units unless they're in a very large group.

i.e. in Zerg strategy you don't use Hydralisks against another Zerg as a general rule. It's possible to win, but its more difficult.

i.e. to kill Hydralisks, Zealots are highly effective. Possible to micro against them, but 5 Zealots can easily kill 12-16 Hydras.

[hillzagold]

because the zealots are so much more powerful, high damage and fast attack rate, not to mention hard to kill. it has nothing to do with the hydras being weak to melee in particular

[Wlck742]

Zealots have nearly three times as much health as hydras, as well as a stronger attack, of course they can take that much down.

Actually, hydras are quite weak against melee units. A group of crackling take down hydras no problem with their supersexy fastest attack in the game.

[WuHT]

Keep in mind that Protoss Zealots take 1/2 damage when their shields are down.

I'd say that Hydralisk are weakest in smaller skirmishes, because enemy melee units can micro around. If i n a choke or a large scale battle, a hydralisk army can win simply because all their units are always firing, while the melee front-line is the only units that are dealing damage.

This applies strictly for longer-range against clumping. There is no need for stabbing at all!

[AcE_01]

hydras rock man! just get a pop of 150 hydras and storm the front with 100 cracklings =D GG

[Wlck742]

You can't do that unless you're on a money map with an ally that defends both you and himself and you've stockpiled resources then killed all you workers, or you're playing against your grandma.

Take your pick.

[Joneagle_X]

Lol last time I played against my Grandma she just sat there the whole game...

Only found out later she had a heart attack from my massive amounts of cracklings. :P

[Gasmaskguy]

...and then you woke up from your dream, right?

[L0ck and L04d]

thats just...awfull

[Gasmaskguy]

thats just...awfull


killing your grandma or cranking out zerglings? ;D
I think the last one... :good:

[L0ck and L04d]

chuckle chuckle...

[Joneagle_X]

Never said I killed her, she's alive and well!

Meanwhile, my cracklings still scare me too :D

[L0ck and L04d]

what ever, I already know that the hydralisk will be awsome because its blizzard and I don't need to comment...............................GIVE IT A MELE ANIMATION!!!!!!!!!!!

[venado]

there are games where ranged units has a different close attack (like battle realms)... maybe the hydras can spite spines when enemy is far, and slash when they come close

[string_me_along]

Maybe they should show the Hydralisk shoot spines in the cinematics?

All the same I would like to see an upgrade that would allow them to attack melee. It could be researched. It might allow for some interesting gameplay. They've got some big ol' claws. Let 'em use em.

Somewhat related: don't take away their AA spines though, and possibly add another ground unit that can hit air too. Possibly one with more HP

[L0ck and L04d]

I just realized how pathetic this conversation is, I meen, ive been here since the very bigining and most people now just say what they think withought even reading the hole thing, ive counted and weve had the exact same debate 7 times.

[Gasmaskguy]

Then lets just lock this topic?

[L0ck and L04d]

I HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO? ive only been in the forum for like 2 month.

[Major Willy]

You can't unless you're a Moderator or Administrator.

I'm currently using my mind to slowly dim down this topic... *vein bulge*

[BirdofPrey]

I think Hydras should still spit but should be kinda like AOE3 units where they will melee an enemy to death if it closes. Same for the marine give it a use for that bayonet or even a shield bash to push units back so they can pump more lead into it.

[225popcap]

I've always wondered too. spit or claw?

[ijffdrie]

*plants a psi emmiter in this thread so it gets overrun with zerg*

so that should lock the threAAAARRRRGHHHH

[Major Willy]

MAH SPLEEN.

Edit: This topic is also now about cheese.

[ijffdrie]

i dont know how its called in english but i love sint marie kaas en brie

[L89]

I hope this is not a repeated topic...
It's similar to the marine bayonet topic in some way.

Anyways, in SC intro, the hydralisk killed that marine by clawing him up. Yet in the game, the hydralisk never uses their claws. What do y'all reckon? Should the hydralisk have a second animation doing a melee attack? Should the two attacks' damage be the same/different? Should the hydralisk be allowed to do both simultaneously if it is right next to the target? Should the player be able to control the attack option, and if so, how can it be made so that the choice is user-friendly?

The most basic implementation is to just create the melee animation, with same damage value. They cannot be used simultaneously. And the hydralisk will only use melee if someone by chance space-dances past it.

However, the other way is to make it so that the melee attack adds extra bonus damage to the spit attack. So it's up to the player to decide whether to chance the closing distance (during it's movement it cannot attack) for a shot at quick kills among the bunch of marines (etc) or to start spitting at a distance as it does in SC. This can be one idea for improving the hydralisk from SC1 to SC2 (improving the hydralisk is the topic of discussion in the "Possible Ability for the Hydralisk: Proof Inside" thread) while avoiding op/imba.

Opinions/ideas everyone! Pool in your thoughts!! :)

BTW: Who got fooled (slash prematurely excited) by the thread title? ;D


Duplicate topic - Merged.

[L89]

Crud. Should have used to search function. Sorry.

[notjim]

i think the hydra should only spit, as in the original - shooting out needled spines. hydras are like the zerg flagship unit.

as for the claws, its important to keep those on. without claws the hydra would have trouble balancing itself and climbing tricky terrain. after all, it probably evolved that way to protect itself from getting hit in the chest by having big nasty claws in front of it. just cause it has them doesnt mean it has to use them offensively. plus they look cool as hell.

[MarineCorp]

I prefer the Hydralisk just with spit, i agree with notjim

[ZeR[g]LiNg]

WHat if the hydralisk didn't even come back into the game? I'm pretty sure many people were expecting the dragoon back, but they vanished. O.o

[Hodl pu]

I doubt they would be axed. Remember in SC original, where you get to pick which campaign, Terran, Zerg, or Protoss. It showed a Marine, Hydralisk and Zealot. Representatives of their race. Marine and zealot didn't get axed, i'm sure Hydralisk wont either.

[ZeR[g]LiNg]

Eh, I always thought of Zerglings as the representatives.

On the WHo got axed basis, you could say teh dragoon got modified into two dragoon parts, the firebat was remodeled and given a new role, so the hydra lisk might be changed into something new.

[Psionicz]

It will be, just look at your avi, it has a Zergling mouth and Zergling claws on its back and jaw, so thats probably a new Hydralisk or another type.

[Indigent]

I think the hydralisk should get the ability to have the cobra function, only except run towards the enemy while shooting, and when gets close enough will pounce or something. That would be neat. Only except, it wouldn't work for air units.

[Gasmaskguy]

It will be, just look at your avi, it has a Zergling mouth and Zergling claws on its back and jaw, so thats probably a new Hydralisk or another type.


LOL WTF? :D You point out how it has two Zergling attributes, and therefore is a Hydralisk? :P
I am quite sure that it's just a Zergling. The reason why that icon on the official site isn't a Hydralisk (which in my and many others opinions represent the Zerg) is because they want to keep em secret. The Hydralisk might have gotten a few design changes that will be shown later.

[DarkTemplol]

I read someone earlyer posting that the Hydra should have a stab because it would be more effective up close. Not really.

According to the lore, the Hydra's spit can puncture 2cm Neo-Steel. Now, if this Neo-Steel is anything like regular steel, that's one hell of a pop. Look that the Hydras arms. Kinda frail, and skinny. Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't wanna be on the recieving end of those things, but I highly doubt that they can go through 2cm of Neo-Steel.

Food for thought, at least.

[Indigent]

Atleast give it a new mechanic that lets the hydralisk do something with it's arms. Like knock its enemies back or down when they try to melee the hydralisk. It could have a cool time, so it will not be invulnerable to melee.

[Hunter]

Yes, or give it a secondary meelee attack which is much weaker (does a damage of 4-5) than the range attack, and only activates when a meelee unit roams the muta. So it wouldn't force meelee fighting

[Psionicz]

No melee is stupid for HYDRALISKS, they spit not fight, also if a Zealot was in my face I wouldn't stab it I'd rather burn his ass with acid. Plus don't mention that the Zealot gets a charge cuz if every unit had an alternative the game would be boring with no uniqueness.
GMG- My bad, on second look it probably is a Zergling... Although it seems to be standing up right like a Hydralisk.

[Gasmaskguy]

Yeah, no stabbing. It will only confuse if it's only an animation, and be unbalanced if it makes the Hydra better or worse in "melee" combat.

[Psionicz]

Yes, or give it a secondary meelee attack which is much weaker (does a damage of 4-5) than the range attack, and only activates when a meelee unit roams the muta. So it wouldn't force meelee fighting


Whats the point of making it weaker cuz its close quaters, acid spikes burn and rip you.
Also I doubt Zerg will get a melee attackers similar to the Hydralisk cuz then it'd be a Zealot.

[Hodl pu]

Wow, the results are tied. I already voted, but that was a loong time ago. But I liked the idea someone brought up a while ago. Basically, when a unit gets up close to the hydralisk, the only thing that changes is the animation. NO damage increase nor decrease. The animation just changes.

[Psionicz]

And what happens if the player chooses to run away, the animation suddenly cuts out half way and the unit starts to run away. Too me that wouldn't look good.

[Wlck742]

The animation should just be an animation. It wouldn't be good to give it different attacks for melee and range. It could ruin the strategic portion of the game. If you have to move your unit everytime another unit gets close that would just be dumb. Same damage, just different animations.

[DarkTemplol]

Thing is though, from a lore perspective, there is no incentive to use their arms. The spit is much more effective. Even if it is just an animation, it doesn't make sense to have it.

[Psionicz]

Thank you. I guess that sums that up lol

[Wlck742]

I dunno. Those claws look just as deadly as their spines. But if it kills you, you wouldn't care what it did to kill you.

[DarkTemplol]

Well, the thing is, there's always something blocking it, be it the steel space suits, or Plasma Shield, or hard shell of the Zerg, so it would make sense to use the most powerful attack, the spit. Don't get me wrong, I think a melee attack would be tits, but it just doesn't make sense to have it in.

[Terranftw123]

Yea, i agree with the fact that they should have a meele attack, the spit should be used at long range and agaisnt air units, but when meele units get close, they start using their claws for damage, the claws should only do 1/3 of the damage as the spit but should be twice as fast.

[DarkTemplol]

That makes sense from neither a lore, or gameplay perspective.

[Psionicz]

Lolll... I feel highly spammy right now so I'll refrain from posting much

but yea why are u repeating what others have said when we have just disproved the fact it wouldnt fit in the game@terranFORTHEWINonetwothree

[i2new@aol.com]

i personaly think this topic sucks. I mean i have seen bad topics befor but really this has got to be the worst of them all. If something could kill you from yards away why should it waist its time and energy to run up to you and stab you. If blizzard red this they might think about changing the hydralisk to melee... i know you guys dont want that to happen. That you be a freakin nightmare to lose a good zerg unit.

[DarkTemplol]

Most of the arguements are for having an animation when they are right next to each other, for example, against a Zealot. Did you even read this "horrible" topic?

[i2new@aol.com]

no i didnt. its 13 pages long and i'm to lazy to do all that reading. i still dont think the hydralisk need a stab animation. in any case dont the hydralisk use there claws to drag them selfs forward???

Even worse what if the target gets stuck on the hydralisks spike?? hows he ganna get it off? will he just use his other arm and smear him off or what??

[DarkTemplol]

Well, reading one or two posts to inform yourself about the arguement would have been nice.

Although, I do agree it would be a crappy mechanic, animation or not.

[Hellblade]

They were never supposed to spit in the original game. They were supposed to stab like in the movie but had to be changed for balancing.

[Psionicz]

This isn't the original game its sc2 and shouldn't this topic be locked now?

As its pretty much evident having the hydralisk stab instead/and (of) spitting wouldn't work.
Srsly guys you gotta think about what ideas you throw around as Blizzard do get informed meaning they could get the wrong impression therefor changing the perfect unit.

But yea... plz lock this topic

[Indigent]

I disagree, but last post before lock-down!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Chax424]

(if i am correct) a zerg Hydralisk jumps on an unsuspecting Marine and stabs him to death...


I thought it was a zergling, for what its worth. Looked too small to by a hydralisk. Maybe I'm wrong though, who knows.
I totally agree with you though. A melee as a secondary. A weak one, not much good against armor. In Age of Empires 3 all ranged units had a melee (mostly it was just beating what with the but of their gun)
I nice stab/slah would be a good idea. I think it should vary. Since units have more than one attack animation, they can have a sc1-zealot style jab, and a nice slasshhhhh.
Cheers, good idea.

[hydralisk]

i think that you should switch between modes of meelle and ranged the melle doing more damage and you push a button to switch between them kida of like the viking thingy

[Hunter]

Gah... Too long arguement, I've posted here before I think, I thik a stab animation would be nice with the same damage, like tghe spitting, it only would look like more realistic, only the animation would change after switching to attack an other unit, it would switch to spit again.
Ok I know this is written here at some places, but a lot seems to ignore others ideas, and I don't think we can come up with other ideas..

I agree with Zergalicious, this topic should be locked.

[Indigent]

Well, I think that hydralisks should have the same function as the goliath in Starcraft I. The Hydralisk will have different upgrades like last time. And maybe it would have more attack for strategical purposes, afterall, everything has a counter now and strengths. What is wrong with hydralisks having a secondary close weapon.

[LordKerwyn]

I personally don't care to much about this topic but it makes me think of how off the SC1 cinematics from the in game unit, which is something I really hope won't happen in SC2.

This topic however does not need to be locked because amazingly its one of the few topics thats still in fact on topic after 15 pages and just because you do or do not want Blizzard to take a suggestion is not a valid reason to lock a topic.

[Psionicz]

We want it locked cuz its just being repeated, I mean if someone can tell me a viable reason why the Hydralisk would stab/slash instead of spit feel free, but I will englighten you :D

Btw the new Hydralisk concept art shows it with extra claws meaning its possible it could attack with them (if so I wouldn't mind if there stab was stronger than the acid attack but only at 0-1 range), but they could also be for another purpose such as better burrowing or climbing.

[Gasmaskguy]

Zergalicious, which hydralisk concept picture are you referring too?

[Psionicz]

http://www.freakygaming.com/gallery/game_art/starcraft_2/hydralisk.jpg

[Gasmaskguy]

Nice, never noticed the extra claws...
It IS official concept art, but remember that some concepts differ heavily from the final unit design. (Thor anyone? That concept looks almost like a totally different unit.)

[Indigent]

The thor looks like the same size as the firebats do in the concept art.

[Psionicz]

Lol, the Thor's original concept art makes me want to fight one of the designers.

But back on the Hydralisk topic; What functionality do you think the Hydralisk will earn with these new claws?

[Gasmaskguy]

(A little off topic fist, mwhahahahrr!!!)
The artist you wanna keel is Samwise, lol. :D

If the in-game model gets those kind of claws, it will probably just be to indicate its awesomely fast burrowing ability.

[zeratul11]

yes the thor concept art was poorly done well that goes for most sc2 artwork (banshee, phoenix). =p

i just hope they make new original quality ones. =)

and check out my thor artwork in the future. im currently working on my viking. i'l post my ghost artwork tommorow and im really expecting a lot of positive replay coz IMO it looks way better. =)

about the hydra? i like em stabbing dealing more damage and spitting dealing less damage. switchable attacks. ^^

[Psionicz]

Logically spitting does more damage as acid burns through skin like nothing and would be more effective against thick armor than claws since they could break.*
Naturally the claws would be a valuable asset, *for example when lions hunt there are very careful not to damage their claws or teeth as it would render them ineffective and in war you're practically cannon fodder if you have no use.
Only thing I'd see the claws used for effectivly, combat-wise, is against infantry since the Hydralisk could deal mortal damage if it struck in the neck or joint.

[Gasmaskguy]

The hydralisk does not spit acid but launches spines. :)

[motto]

no stick with the green spit

[BirdofPrey]

Which were spines

[AcE_01]

yes...they spit very sharp spines...kinda like ninjas when they throw a dozen of pins..yeah kinda like that..

hydras use there scythe for burrowing...and in sc2, possible climbing up cliffs (maybe a tier 3 upgrade). just image 150 hydras climbing up the side of your base...O_O ..................LOL MAN!

[Psionicz]

The spines were like coated in the acid? Cuz if it was just spines, the attack animation wouldn't look as if it was a liquid and would actually look like spines.

[AcE_01]

well..coated in their "green saliva"...right? or mucus..

[Psionicz]

This species, first seen in security camera footage discovered on a dead Terran cargo vessel, is one of the fiercest and most dangerous of the Zerg strains. The upper carapace plates of the Hydralisk can open to expose hundreds of spines that are projected with such force that they can penetrate 2cm Neosteel. Fortunately, they move quite slowly on open terrain.

Hmm it seems they might not have an acid attack, I wonder why everyone thought it was acid spines, as acid seems to fit them well.

[LordKerwyn]

Like you they were probably thinking of the attack animation.

Personally I think it would be cool if they had 2 seperate attacks one for ranged and one for melee but thats just me.

[Hunter]

And a bit more than half of the people like the votes show :)

[Psionicz]

Like you they were probably thinking of the attack animation.

Personally I think it would be cool if they had 2 seperate attacks one for ranged and one for melee but thats just me.


It would look cool indeed. But as you can see their spitting attack would be a lot more effective than slashing.

[LordKerwyn]

Thats nor nesscarily true because the spines will obviously move quite a bit faster they don't have nearly as much mass as the claws. Take a gun vs. a decently sharpened blade as an example the bullet (depending on where the person was shot) will go straight through cause some interanl bleeding as well as the bleeding from the entrance and exit wounds. While the blade (and when I say blade I am thinking like a sword because bullet vs. sworrd is alot more like claw vs. spine for the hydra), depending with the force it was swung with leave a much larger gash in and in general affect more surface area even and thus a major arttery even though it probably won't break as many bones and may have a harder time with armor.

So while the spines may have a much greater range, given that most Zerg are very physically powerful its pretty easy for me to believe that a Hyrdalisk's claw is more damaging in melee range than the spines.

[Psionicz]

Your argument isn't very valid. Comparing a gun and sword does not relate to the Hydralisk what-so-ever.

These spines it shoots are compressed and launched at great power as it says they can pierce neo steel which is probably stronger than titainium. And being able to go through this very strong metal means the attack is a lot more powerful than slashing. As no creature that size could slash through metal of this type.
Also looking at the shape of their claws, ripping or slashing thick armor isn't possible as they'd break due to physics, they would only be good for piercing, and to pierce strong metal with your own strength you have to be extremely powerful which I doubt a Hydralisk could do.
Blizzard says it them selfs. And obviously if their primary weapon is to spit spines, its obvioulsy stronger and more effective than stabbing since they don't stab in the description.

Also a shot gun is more damaging than a hand gun as its stronger and fires a spread which increases the kill %. I see where you are saying the claw could do more damage as it may be a more precise application of power, but its kinda obvious to see getting shot in the neck by a shot gun would be more damaging than getting claws in it.

I'm tired so my post and points might not be structured/written correctly so bare with me

[LordKerwyn]

Actually its very valid comparison a spine is very similar to a bullet both are small projectiles designed to pierce their targets and the claws are like sword in that they are both long blade like objects, it doesn't need to be a perfect comparison the masses are similar and the uses are similar which was my goal.

Also remember those spines are compressed by some biological action within the Hydralisk whats stopping us from saying Hydralisks cant do that with their claws? (Other than the fact we say they don't) There really is nothing because we know nothing about Hydralisks besides what Blizzard has shown us. So assuming an equivalent amount of force is applied in both scenarios but the claw is used in a downward fashion the claw would create more pressure and thus be more likely to pierce neo steel than the spines which we already know can, and since a humans head dominates the upper porition of our bodies it means the Hydralisk would be far more likely to make a killing blow with a downward strike with its claws instead of launching spines in melee range.

[Psionicz]

This argument will go nowhere as its pretty much opinions. How about we ask Blizzard?

[LordKerwyn]

Very true, hey Kaurne when you get a minute you mind asking the blizzard lore team about this? (we know you are watching us....:P)

Here is one thing I do know Blizzard originally intended for Hydralisks to be melee, if I am remembering correctly I read that they were that way in the beta, even if my memory is failing just look at some of then cinematics that involve you will never seem them launching spines but instead killing marine with there claws.

Of course most of that is irrelevant because the cinematics were off in way more ways than one, but still whether or not a Hydralisk can fight better in melee is irrelevant because it is completely dependent on whether or not the community wants them to be that way.

[BirdofPrey]

One thing to note though is also the fact that the zerglings look different in the cinematics and are occasionally mistaken for hydras as well.  Most of the hydras that are seen are in confined spaces

[Psionicz]

In the sc1 cinematics I never actually recalled a Zergling killing a Terran, Hydralisks always did it. And there seemd to be 3 variations of Hydralisk. There was a skinny Hydralisk looking unit with legs, there was the actual Hydralisk, then there was a bulky bad ass looking Hydralisk with legs also.

Also if you want melee you have Zerglings and Ultralisks which would be more effective :D

[BirdofPrey]

The ones with the legs are zerglings

[Laz]

hydras do shoot acid along with there spines. its in the books. as do the hydras use there claws to attack. they are extremely powerful can cut through armor with ease. even in the movie at the beginning of brood war do you see a hydra jump on a marine and start clawing him right before it gets roasted by a firebat. as for the animation, i think it would be cool to have it. just make it attack at the same speed as the spines with the same damage and automatically happen when enemy units are right by them like zealots.

[Psionicz]

-Sigh- Ok, so lets give every single unit in the game another animation for attacking. And Laz, a Marines armor isn't that tough, lets see a Hydralisk slash through a Siege Tank... I don't see the point of haning it slash when we have Zerglings and Ultralisks which are much better at melee than Hydralisks as they are specialized upon it. The Hydralisk is already a versatile unit we don't need the Zerg units to have all these secondaries as the Zerg in it's self is a pretty basic race.

Also this will ruin UMS games such as a defense map and you are using Hydralisks to make a maze while destroying the enemy units without letting them escape. What will happen if they have a melee attack? They will not shoot at the units which are about to escape from their range meaning failure, all becuase they are trying to slash instead.

Also if every aspect from the movies was put into gameplay I think the game it's self would be very very different.

[Wlck742]

Actually, if you were making UMS maps you'd be able to change the attack animation for the hydra to something totally different like a BC's lasers so it's not a problem. Besides, we're talking about how hydras could attack with their claws for the exact same damage only when they're in melee range, not any time else.

[Psionicz]

Ok let me simplify it as much as I can.

Shoot gun close range: Blow your brains everywhere
Shoot gun medium range: Bullets everywhere

Now as Laz said they do shoot acid along with the powerful shot of the spines. So an acid shot gun or machine gun whatever you want to picture the Hydralisks acid attack as.

Lore wise I agree that obviously a Hydralisk would Stab infantry but against Tanks and Colossus I don't really see a melee attack for Hydralisks working.

[Laz]

again they are powerful enough to rip through even siege armor. I'm not saying that it happens on the first strike but a group of em all clawing at once could even rip through siege tanks. you are right though that it could affect ums games but at the same time it may open the door for new ones. plus in ums games hydras shouldn't be in the front anyways. they are always up high or behind units like lings so they can still use there spines.

[Wlck742]

And why wouldn't a melee work against seige tanks or colossi? The zergling's claws work against them well e nough, and the hydralisk, although primarily a ranged unit, should have at least the same amount of strength as a zergling, if its size accounts for anything.

[zergPaine]

If they added details like this into all the units, along with differing genders, different animations, etc. the game would be 15GB. Keep it simple.

[CannonFodder]

the difference between adding a melee attack for all units and one just for the hrydalisks is that it already has the Freaking claws. Other range unit would have smash with guns or take out a different weapon, where as the hryadalisk already has all the stuff it needs.
the attack could be the EXACT same as the range attack and the only difference would be the animation
is that really so bad?

[Psionicz]

Don't fix what isn't broken.

[furrer]

How should that work if you wanna dance and then FF with them? I dont want my Hydras to start attacking meele, when im "dancing" with them!

[Gizmo4life]

why? it just seems unnecessary to me. Its allready a cool unit.

[Ayzee]

I don't get it. Ofc they should have a melee attack. Why don't they? I asked myself the same question the first time I played SC. I thought I had to upgrade something somewhere =)

@Furrer, how would a melee addition affect dancing? If your hydras are at a distant, they'll spit instead of running up to the target.