Reapers

[Gold]

i was jsut thinking to myself about immortals, and i think they have replaced vultures with reapers
There both fast moving, they both have low attack damage, and although they dont have any special abilitys yet, it seems to be the logical choice, its not like terran can have both.

any opinouns?

[Gold]

it says in the in the demo of the game thats all over youtube
And they slightly upgraded dragoons into immortals.
so im wondering if there doing that to vultures
i dont mind i like the reapers.
I just dont imagine terran having both.

[mc2]

We're talking about protoss units here right? Terran could get both, because they lack in defense and maybe make up for it in speed and attack with 2 units ;p

Where are you getting terran info on starcraft 2?


Terran lacking defense? To me terran has the BEST defense out of the 3 with seige tanks, repairable bunkers and medics healing

[ZerglingRUSH]

Eh, you lost me too.

Reapers and the immortals are both protoss units.

I think vultures are good as they are because of their mines. Makes them super useful. They can't make them more powerful cause they have the mine ability. IF they do, they'd need to balane it out somehow.

[Gold]

Well i was thinking about how they upgrade old units and give them face lifts etc
THink about the similaritys between reapers and vultures,
there both fast units
they both dont do very much damage
there both much stronger in large numbers
and i dont imagine terran having more than 1 fast ground unit

[mc2]

yeah even so, most upgrades are merely visual. a doubt the ability of the units will change much

[starcraft]

I don't think Reapers will be in Starcraft 2.

[10-Neon]

Blizzard talked about wanting to include a more branched tech tree, more options for early game deployment. It may be that having units with similar roles falls into that category. They have similar roles, but would require different branches. Reapers would be considered advanced infantry, and would probably require something like the Academy, maybe even the Engeneering Bay. The Reaper would be considered an advanced infantry unit, while the Vulture, buildable at an unenhanced Factory, would be a basic vehicle.

I do agree that their roles would have a lot of overlap, but Vultures do have Spider Mines over them. I would hate to see the loss of such a beautiful weapon. Perhaps the Vulture will be changed to become a heavier unit, maybe it will be even faster, stronger, something like that, that would distinguish it from the Reaper.

[orphean]

Reaver - Protoss Tank Ground Unit

Reaper - New unit in SC2. Terran Marines with jumppacks that can easily move over terrein.

Reaver != Reaper and Reapers certainly aren't a toss unit ;)

[vemynal]

I think (meaning i hope^^) that those blinking units of the toss (spacing on the name) will replace the reavers.

I always hated the reavers :P

[Bumbaloe]

I think (meaning i hope^^) that those blinking units of the toss (spacing on the name) will replace the reavers.

I always hated the reavers :P


"those blinking units" are called stalkers.

I don't like reavers either. :P

[Singuris]

Some of you don't even know the new units apart

[10-Neon]

If anything is replacing the Reaver, it is the Colossus.

[Singuris]

Reaper is new JET PACK UNIT

Revear is SNAIL UNIT

[reject_666_6]

I think it's safe to say that by saying Rea_ers in the context of Sc2 we can assume that we're talking about Reapers, because obviously there aren't going to be Reavers in it...

[markus]

Why does everyone hate reavers? I want them in sc2! Reaver drop anyone? ;p

[Fenix]

Why does everyone hate reavers? I want them in sc2! Reaver drop anyone? ;p


I hear ya brother!

[vemynal]

While devastating yes, and quicker then Dark Templar rush. It also requires more materials and if you lose a drop ship you lose 2 reavers.

Also once on ground in a base they are extremely easy to kill since they are slow and not to big in the def/hp department.

Also the mix of 1 drop ship for every 2 reavers makes for a bigger resources drain then dark templar rushing.

I'd just prefer to use 1 drop ship with 4 dark templar then 2 drop ships with 4 reavers.

[Fenix]

But if you back up right, it's infinitely more devastating than a DT rush. Don't get me wrong, DT's are GODS, but Reavers are the most destructive unit in the whole game.

And who said anything about shuttles? Recall is where it's at.

[10-Neon]

I bet a Colossus rush would be pretty scary too. The size of the Colossus is one of the reasons I think they went with the Phase Prism's "disassemble into energy" method of transportation, because it would be crazy to try to carry one of those in a Shuttle.

Come to think of it, the Phase Prism opens the doors for all kinds of scary Protoss attacks. I can only hope that the Warp Gate is hard to tech to because a Warp-in rush would be hard to stop.

[Fenix]

I'm positive that the Warp Gate is of the highest tier possible, on par with the Mothership.

[Gold]

I bet a Colossus rush would be pretty scary too. The size of the Colossus is one of the reasons I think they went with the Phase Prism's "disassemble into energy" method of transportation, because it would be crazy to try to carry one of those in a Shuttle.

Come to think of it, the Phase Prism opens the doors for all kinds of scary Protoss attacks. I can only hope that the Warp Gate is hard to tech to because a Warp-in rush would be hard to stop.


i guess then that the phase prism replaces the arbiter to some degree
and like the reaper replacing the vulture, the arbiters abilitys will probably be given to other units.

[Fenix]

:'(

*A tear shed for Stasis Field*

[orphean]

Strength brother Fenix. We'll get through this trying time :'(

[Fenix]

May Adun guide us through these troubles.

[mc2]

Tassadar is just as heroic as Adun, En Taro both of them

[Fenix]

Yeah, but it would be weird saying "May Tassadar guide us through these troubles". Cause he just barely died.

[TrustWorthyGuy]

noooooooooooo!!! i hope the vultures arent taken out, and its also funny how they sound like bikers

[reject_666_6]

Somethin' on yo maend???

[Fenix]

"I ain't got time to f*** around!"

But the Marines are funnier.

[mc2]

We probably won't see 'drops' done by shuttle. prolly most players would use the phase prism to teleport units into a base

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

No I'm even more scared. I though a reaver drop was bad, but now in SC2 we gotta deal with colossus drops ;p I think a colossus + some dark templars is all you need to seriously own.

oh, throw in a mothership while you are at it ;D ;D


Dark Templars might be replaced though...

I know about Zeratul... but hey, he might inhabit a Stalker now?

[reject_666_6]

Zertul, Stalker?!?!? Blasphemy!!! :'(

[Jistyr]

I'm pretty sure the Reapers replaced the Firebats.


And who said anything about shuttles? Recall is where it's at.
I don't know if there will be arbiters, but I think I saw the Phase Prisms drop off units in the demo. Maybe that was just triggers or a warp gate thing, but I thought they might have replaced the Shuttle.

[10-Neon]

http://www.starcraft2.com/features/protoss/index.xml?tab=phaseprism
"The Protoss use these "phase prisms" in several ways. Their primary function is to transport Protoss forces on the field of battle. Both living and inorganic subjects can be transformed into energy, and their unique energy signature imprinted into the prism's crystal lattice core. Upon reaching the destination point the operation is reversed and the stored energy signatures are reconfigured into matter in proximity to the phase prism."

[Singuris]

They better not get rid of firebats i'll be pissed

[reject_666_6]

I hope that they'll make Reapers into Firebats with jet-packs. That would give a boost of freshness to the ol' Bat...

[TheDarkTemplar]

Dude, if they kept all the old units this would just be StarCraft 1: Expansion Pack ver.2 because you all *****ed and moaned.

[reject_666_6]

Each race has 3 changeable units. They WILL add 1-2 new units and probably a new race in the expansion, so sit tight kids.

[Gold]

Each race has 3 changeable units. They WILL add 1-2 new units and probably a new race in the expansion, so sit tight kids.


i agree, and the expansion will come along really quickly after as well.its standard blizzard

[Gold]

another screenie from starcraft2.com
Im sure many of you have seen it.
but we dont have a thread about it and i am a little bored right now.

As you can see the firebats seem to have lost the gas canisters on there backs, and the flamethrowers are now concelaed in the arm guantlets.
the only question in my mind is, how did they get back there?

Those are actually reapers, thanks for pointing that out, i can see the twin pistols now. and it seems the jet packs come out of the shoulders, a bit like gundam wing.
The probes seem to ahve been amde a little more complicated, but no really big changes.

[NotDeadYet]

Are you sure those are Firebats? They could be Reapers...

[Gold]

you are right, tbh i dont actually know what a reaper looks like, apart from that theve got big rockets on there backs.
if you can get a screenshot of one then il give you a power level.

[coalescence]

you are right, tbh i dont actually know what a reaper looks like, apart from that theve got big rockets on there backs.
if you can get a screenshot of one then il give you a power level.


Asking people to do stuff for a power level is just lame.

And btw, its a reaper... period.

[Fenix]

Is it just me, or does the new Probe warp look like the Acolytes summoning in War 3?

[coalescence]

Is it just me, or does the new Probe warp look like the Acolytes summoning in War 3?


Only the shape on the ground. It reminds me more of a mix between the mother ship warping in and arch mage teleport.

[reject_666_6]

Those probes look really nifty. They finally have some colour in them; I was getting tired of solid-gold floating tin cans warping in my buildings...

[10-Neon]

I don't like the new Probes, they remind me of hover bikes more than workers. They need to be...wider.

[mc2]

What have they done to the probes?? The ones from SC1 are SO CUTE!! XD

There is a high chance Colosus is replacing firebats, they look too similar

[Fenix]

What have they done to the probes?? The ones from SC1 are SO CUTE!! XD

There is a high chance Colosus is replacing firebats, they look too similar


O_o

Colossus. Towering Protoss machine of laser-hastened destruction.

Firebat. Stubby little pyromaniac.

[mc2]

Oops! I meant reapers.
Seriously that probe needs to be changed back to its original form!

[reject_666_6]

Dammit, I think I might be the only one who likes the new Probes... :'( NOOOOOO!!!!!!

[Fenix]

I have mixed feelings.....The new ones look totally sweet....But the old one were so CUTE!!!

[ImaGiNe.]

In another topic I created for Zealot Movement (http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/index.php?topic=875.msg20391#new), I mentioned that "in the game play trailer" blah blah blah. I just watched it again to analyze some things that have been mentioned in these forums. I saw a lot of things that I had questions to and answers to them, however it gave me another set of questions with which I would like all of you to discuss with me!

NOTE: I do know that there is a Reaper thread already, however it is already a month old, so I though I would revive the discussion of this new addition.

The Terran Reaper; A jump jet equipped, dual-pistol (or so people say) wielding Terran infantry unit. It seems that it's effectiveness cannot be questioned! It jumps! Who questions things that jump?! I guess I do! Because after I watched the trailer, I wondered whether or not Reapers could target air units like Marines can. Do you think Reapers have an anti-air capability with pistols? On the game play trailer it only showed Marines taking on Warp Rays and the like. It only showed Reapers fighting other ground units (the Immortals, Stalkers, Photon Cannons, a Nexus, etc. etc.) and failed to show how Reapers would react against hostile air units! Boo! I say! Boo! But I guess it was just a teaser trailer... but Boo none the less!

Also, I noticed that when the Reapers took on the Photon Cannons, they were surprisingly hardy against the attacks. One Reaper took several photon cannon attacks before it died! Could that mean that Reapers have HP of over 40? Or a *natural armor aspect?

* Already researched (I.E. Firebats having an armor of 1)

[Ghost]

Good questions,

If the reaper is the replacement for the firebat I would not be surprised if it cant attack air units although they have guns.

Is it that reapers have more hp or that phase cannons have less attack?

[generalrievous]

well I think it depends upon rather they are equiped with the flamers or pistols

[paragon]

I doubt that the reaper will be able to attack air as it would possibly conflict with the marine's use in this respect. Also, it does seem to be stronger than the marine as you said. This is probably a combination of HP (50 or 60) and armor (1 maybe).

[Itsmyship]

My question is wether or not the Reaper'll replace the marine. The reapers seems sturdier than the marine, looks cheap, and is able to jump cliffs.

[paragon]

I doubt it. This is why I don't think it will attack air. They wouldn't give the marine the later game upgrades of a shield and bayonet if it was going to be replaced. Also, SC does not really have replaceable units, that is for WC3 only.

edit: in the gameplay video, the reapers had to retreat from the photon cannons when the phase prism activated them again. If reapers could attack air they would have just destroyed the phase prism since it is weaker than a pylon.
On a side note, the phase prism's pyloning ability seems to cost 2 of something that looks like supply and 2 of something else (possibly a clock which represents cooldown)

[Fenix]

Here's my answer to the anti-air question. Realistically, it can't. You cannot shoot an air vehicle, no matter how low, with a pistol. It's almost literally impossible.

[Ghost]

Here's my answer to the anti-air question. Realistically, it can't. You cannot shoot an air vehicle, no matter how low, with a pistol. It's almost literally impossible.


Special op operatives can shoot down helicopters with a standard issue 9mm Beretta.

[Fenix]

Here's my answer to the anti-air question. Realistically, it can't. You cannot shoot an air vehicle, no matter how low, with a pistol. It's almost literally impossible.


Special op operatives can shoot down helicopters with a standard issue 9mm Beretta.


They can shoot the pilot or the gas tank. Shooting the pilot would have an instant effect, but most have BP glass now. Shooting the gas tank will really just be an annoyance.

And are you implying that the Reaper is special ops? Plus, it's a dual-machine pistol. Not so swell for aiming.

Sorry, that was a bit harsh, but yeah.

[Ghost]

Here's my answer to the anti-air question. Realistically, it can't. You cannot shoot an air vehicle, no matter how low, with a pistol. It's almost literally impossible.


Special op operatives can shoot down helicopters with a standard issue 9mm Beretta.


They can shoot the pilot or the gas tank. Shooting the pilot would have an instant effect, but most have BP glass now. Shooting the gas tank will really just be an annoyance.

And are you implying that the Reaper is special ops? Plus, it's a dual-machine pistol. Not so swell for aiming.

Sorry, that was a bit harsh, but yeah.


Na its ok, dual machine pistol can just spray the vehicle until it hits something fragile lolz. And yes, most of the terran units are special ops when you think about it.

[Fenix]

Pff, whatever. Most Terran units are convicts. The average life expectancy of a Marine in the field is six seconds, 12 with Medics (From the manual). Cannon fodder. Hell of a lot cheaper than prison.

Ghosts are spec ops, and I think Wraiths may be.

[Ghost]

Pff, whatever. Most Terran units are convicts. The average life expectancy of a Marine in the field is six seconds, 12 with Medics (From the manual). Cannon fodder. Hell of a lot cheaper than prison.

Ghosts are spec ops, and I think Wraiths may be.


true, but in reality if terran units where passed onto this world most of their units would be highly specialized.

[Fenix]

Meh.

Firebats are specialized, Ghosts are....Maybe Goliaths, though I can see them being a police force.

[Ghost]

Meh.

Firebats are specialized, Ghosts are....Maybe Goliaths, though I can see them being a police force.


Tanks? Every air unit? Medics?

[Fenix]

Tanks? Specialized? WTF?

Battlecruisers are bombers son. Big huge things for laying waste to cities. Wraiths be fighters, you know, like the F-16.

Medic would be.....Medics.

[Ghost]

Tanks? Specialized? WTF?

Battlecruisers are bombers son. Big huge things for laying waste to cities. Wraiths be fighters, you know, like the F-16.

Medic would be.....Medics.


Medics: 8 year of medical training to become effective field surgeons

Tanks: Calculation wind, distance, height and speed for a siege shell to impact.

Battlecruisers: Flagships that require like 30 peps to pilot.

Thats pretty specialized

[Fenix]

Tanks? Specialized? WTF?

Battlecruisers are bombers son. Big huge things for laying waste to cities. Wraiths be fighters, you know, like the F-16.

Medic would be.....Medics.


Medics: 8 year of medical training to become effective field surgeons

Tanks: Calculation wind, distance, height and speed for a siege shell to impact.

Battlecruisers: Flagships that require like 30 peps to pilot.

Thats pretty specialized


Medics: 30 seconds of training.
( =P )

Tanks: Computers

BCs: Again, computers and/or androids.


This is the future son.

[Ghost]

Tanks? Specialized? WTF?

Battlecruisers are bombers son. Big huge things for laying waste to cities. Wraiths be fighters, you know, like the F-16.

Medic would be.....Medics.


Medics: 8 year of medical training to become effective field surgeons

Tanks: Calculation wind, distance, height and speed for a siege shell to impact.

Battlecruisers: Flagships that require like 30 peps to pilot.

Thats pretty specialized


Medics: 30 seconds of training.
( =P )

Tanks: Computers

BCs: Again, computers and/or androids.


This is the future son.


The future sux, full of lazy humans that would be harmless without their petty machines.

[Fenix]

Yeah, uh, we already are. Humans are weaklings dude. I have absolutely no idea why we're the dominant race on this planet.

[Ghost]

Yeah, uh, we already are. Humans are weaklings dude. I have absolutely no idea why we're the dominant race on this planet.


Guns

[Fenix]

All the way back ina history.....We didn't have guns. How did we survive bears, cats, and wooley mammoths?

[Ghost]

All the way back ina history.....We didn't have guns. How did we survive bears, cats, and wooley mammoths?


Clubs

[Fenix]

http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/595.jpg



VS



http://www.fiendbear.com/SuperBear.jpg



How did we manage that?

[Ghost]

Alot of people will bigger clubs

[Fenix]

http://www.linkandpinhobbies.com/Graphics/PP_CAVEC.JPGhttp://www.linkandpinhobbies.com/Graphics/PP_CAVEC.JPGhttp://www.linkandpinhobbies.com/Graphics/PP_CAVEC.JPG

VS



http://www.meta-gizmo.com/tri/images/YUMMY.jpg


My money's on the cat.



EDIT: That caveman (cavemen) look(s) like Chuck Norris.

[Ghost]

my money is on the other two breaking its neck while it does that, they then eath the cat and the dead guy

[Fenix]

Dood, it's a cat. You ever try catching a house cat when it don't want to be caught? Times that by like, 1000

[Ghost]

Dood, it's a cat. You ever try catching a house cat when it don't want to be caught? Times that by like, 1000


Oh well, they got by somehow, i own a cat but it doesnt count as hes to lazy to move, you can throw stuff at him and he wont even flinch

[Fenix]

Ask him where he lost is animal instinct.



If he answers, seek help. Immediately.

[Ghost]

LOL, nice one

[Fenix]

I try my best.
:good:

EDIT: Oh. I'm a hero. Whaddya know.

[Ghost]

I try my best.
:good:

EDIT: Oh. I'm a hero. Whaddya know.


lol niceeee

[Fenix]

Ya, like total wootage. Course, I'm worried that the Tina and John threads will get killed, and these posts will get killed, and I'll lose the posts and the massive amount of minerals.

[Ghost]

Ya, like total wootage. Course, I'm worried that the Tina and John threads will get killed, and these posts will get killed, and I'll lose the posts and the massive amount of minerals.


id give all my posts to get rid of these two

[Fenix]

Pff, I wouldn't. I actually think it's pretty funny.

[Ghost]

:) lol :)

[paragon]

Christ people get really off topic when i go to sleep.

anyways, I think reaper/marine raids will be good. marines go in the front and distract while reapers go in the back and kill the workers.

[Fenix]

I would actually use them more for scouting and routing.

[Proxy-serva]

yea scouting is good

[generalrievous]

reapers with medic kits would be tight

[Ghost]

reapers with medic kits would be tight


Na, it completely eliminates the purpose of the reaper.

If theyre cheap id just use them to nag the opponent to death and to scout. Id just keep attacking the back of his base like mad, like 5 raids of 5 reapers every , what? 10 minutes.

[Fenix]

I think it'd be the perfect scout. Moving fast as a Marine, but jumping up and down.

[Ghost]

I think it'd be the perfect scout. Moving fast as a Marine, but jumping up and down.


Yea. The only problem would be crossing damned rivers, unless they can do that too, that would just be too awsome.

[LimaBeanMage]

I actually think they will be able to attack air before they get their flamethrower upgrade. It wouldn't make sense to have two different types of attacks and have both of them be ground only.

One could argue that they can only attack ground as they have two different types of damage to choose from. Normal pistol damage against large ground targets, and concussive flame damage against small ground targets.

I find that argument compelling but I'm not too sure about reapers stand point anyway. The marine and medic combo can handle large, small, air, and ground targets just as well as anything. The only thing they had to worry about was what damage could be done to them, concussive and large splash damage was their undoing. So, I would say that reapers can attack air units until they get their flame thrower upgrade because they still need to compete with marines for infantry usefulness.

And actually, in writing this I thought of another reason why reapers might be able to attack air. They are base raiders. What good is a base raider if they can be stopped by a group of five air units every single time? Early game raids... and that would be the entire purpose for the reaper since we still have marines and medics.

I think, anyway. I could still be completely wrong.

[capthavic]

It wouldn't be surprising if they can't target air and they are still working on balance so it's subject to change.

[L0ck and L04d]

FOr all the guys earlier talking about how humans survived: ITS SIMPLE. We built the space platforms, I meen come on, its a frekkin multiplayer map type I don't see any flying creep or giant golden halways, if some thing can build a multiplayer map type it deserves to survive cougar and bear attacks with clubs.

[paragon]

They are base raiders. What good is a base raider if they can be stopped by a group of five air units every single time?

Well reavers in shuttles are late game base raiders and they can't attack air. Also what good is a marine if the reaper does everything it does AND jumps around with a jetpack? Plus they didn't attack the phase prism in the demo video.

[burkid]

^that gives me an idea. when phase prisms are deployed, are they still airborn or are they landed? because if they are still airborn, they would prevent zerglings from trying to eliminate cannons just by taking down the pylon.

[paragon]

I think they are still airborne. I don't know why they would be considered land. Also, the attacks against it from ground attacking units would look rather dumb.

[Meloku]

We survived through intelligence. Its a simple as that, and besides. Its not like the bears and cats held meetings on how they wanted to be the dominant race. They just kinda, sat there while we took over.

anyways, back on topic...

reapers seem to do very little damage, and be relitivley inefective in the current state of the game. watch them try to go up against the soul hunters, they appear to just get owned outright while the marines take out a few. maybee they are cheap fast damage eaters? Again, same thing in the terran vs protoss battle at the end of the gameplay trailer. The reapers just jump down the cliff and get destroyed instantly.

[paragon]

Yeah, its so fun watching them explode and fly off. I might just have a bunch in reserve for when i need a quick laugh.

[LimaBeanMage]

Well reavers in shuttles are late game base raiders and they can't attack air. Also what good is a marine if the reaper does everything it does AND jumps around with a jetpack? Plus they didn't attack the phase prism in the demo video.


Good observation about the phase prism. Reavers and shuttles are not a good comparison. Reavers can't attack air, that is true, but they make up for it with a decent amount of hp/shields and very high damage. Reapers have neither of those. If you drop a reaver into a mineral patch and he gets two scarabs out then it would be worth it. Those scarabs would take 6-8 workers before the reaver is killed, and you generally drop more than one reaver. Since reapers deal so little damage per unit and have so little health it would be a waste of time to try and raid someone's base who has flying units around.

If reapers don't have anti-air then base raiding with them would be like trying to a drop with zerglings. It's also the reason people don't drop just tanks but tanks/goliaths or tanks/marines.

[paragon]

People don't even have air early game. And you only have like 2-4 reavers have if you want them to survive you have to pull them out with your shuttles pretty quick because they are slow. Plus if air IS on them, the shuttles are probably goners too if you wait to long. So, you can get off two shots at 125 damage each which is 250 damage which would be either 500 or 1000 damage depending on if you have 2 or 4 reavers. On the other hand you would have lots of reapers possibly 12-18. If each does 8 damage then its 96-144 damage in each volley. And they fire relatively fast so they could probably get off about 8 volleys in the time it takes a reaver to do two. Thats between 768-1152 damage. Now, that is definitely sufficient enough damage to kill all the workers.

[burkid]

but there is a flaw to that. reavers can only be 2 in a shuttle, so it takes about 1.5 seconds or so to unload. if you put8 reapers in a dropship, thats proabably about 6 seconds to unload, so some of them would only get a shot off before you need to run.

[paragon]

Why would you put reapers in a dropship? THEY JUMP OVER CLIFFS

[burkid]

oh i was thinking you were talking about it in the same terms as the reaver drop, just a reaper drop
well when they dont have to unload, i suppose they would be very effective. :P

[paragon]

exactly. jumping reaper raids. i think it would be pretty effective in and of itself and that is why i believe they do not attack air.

[burkid]

people are gonna learn to put defences by their workers (which they should do anyways), but if you have enough reapers you could probably just run past them and attack the workers, youd just have a few more losses.

[paragon]

put a bunker on one side of the command center and another one behind the minerals. Small price to pay for the protection of your workers. Or for protoss, same thing except with photon cannons. plus with phase cannons you can move them around as needed.

[Itsmyship]

people are gonna learn to put defences by their workers (which they should do anyways), but if you have enough reapers you could probably just run past them and attack the workers, youd just have a few more losses.


Definitely. All this just means new strategies and adaptions, this is one of the big reasons i'm looking forward to SC2...i won't have ppl with 10 years of experience in the game.


put a bunker on one side of the command center and another one behind the minerals. Small price to pay for the protection of your workers. Or for protoss, same thing except with photon cannons. plus with phase cannons you can move them around as needed.


Or for Terran just put a siege tank or two there as well

[burkid]

put a bunker on one side of the command center and another one behind the minerals. Small price to pay for the protection of your workers. Or for protoss, same thing except with photon cannons. plus with phase cannons you can move them around as needed.

yeah im saying that they do that and you just run past them to the workers. wreak their economy at the cost of a few reapers.

[paragon]

I was saying you have the defenses on either side of the workers so there is no running past them because running past one would bring you closer to the other and vice versa

[ImaGiNe.]

I actually think they will be able to attack air before they get their flamethrower upgrade. It wouldn't make sense to have two different types of attacks and have both of them be ground only.
I could not agree more with you. I think it would be imbalanced if the Reaper could get some (medium range) shots into a Zealot before it switched to a firebat "alternative"

And actually, in writing this I thought of another reason why reapers might be able to attack air. They are base raiders. What good is a base raider if they can be stopped by a group of five air units every single time? Early game raids... and that would be the entire purpose for the reaper since we still have marines and medics.
Well said LimaBean, well said!

I think, anyway. I could still be completely wrong.

It maybe possible but what wrong is there in speculating right?

Well reavers in shuttles are late game base raiders and they can't attack air. Also what good is a marine if the reaper does everything it does AND jumps around with a jetpack? Plus they didn't attack the phase prism in the demo video.
Reavers were not meant to be base raiders, they were more oriented towards long range bombardment and anti-defensive structure roles. People just found that they tended to be very useful against groups of workers and buildings.

The Reaper raid was scripted, probably had some AI Script that told them that the nexus was more important to take out. But who knows... :-X

Why would you put reapers in a dropship? THEY JUMP OVER CLIFFS
But they cannot jump over huge gorges of lava can they?! :P Also, a group of Reapers are shown in the Protoss Unit Trailer being dropped from Dropships.

[[LightMare]]

really? yeah, because there is negative space between the two bases

[paragon]

But they cannot jump over huge gorges of lava can they?! :P Also, a group of Reapers are shown in the Protoss Unit Trailer being dropped from Dropships.

So? Those things are just to show off units, not to show excellent tactics. Besides, if a base is on a one level cliff then reapers can get to it easy, if not then don't use reapers.

[Steve22x]

Id like to see if they can jump over ground units and effectively flank a group of zealots or whatever. Flamethrowers ftw.

[Patuljak]

I think they'll be able to switch between pistols and flamethrowers. An upgrade that gives you a new attack while eliminating the one you had sounds stupid when there's such a big difference between those two types of attacks. Besides, judging from what we've seen, Blizzard really wants to make a dynamic game and switching between weapons would be one such thing, IMO.

Btw, where did you find out that they'll be able to use flamethrowers?

[paragon]

there are some very small flames when they are attacking the protoss base in the video showing off the phase cannons. However, their regular attack animation is still going and they don't sync up with the flames.

[Patuljak]

So the flamethrowers are pure speculations? Cause I'm not very convinced by the small flames and all, could have been just a graphical mistake or something...come to think of it, flamethrowers just sound cheap - first they remove the firebats from the game and replace them with a new unit, and then give the new unit the same type of attack the old one had? I doubt Blizzard could do something so lame...

[paragon]

yes, it is pure speculation. I honestly don't think they are actually flamethrowers and I doubt even less that they are an attack you can switch to.

[Ghost]

Although it would not be a bad idea to make them have flamethrowers, raiders (in the past in RL) relied heavily on arsen right?

[Fenix]

Although it would not be a bad idea to make them have flamethrowers, raiders (in the past in RL) relied heavily on arson right?


All the way back to the Huns.

[LimaBeanMage]

yes, it is pure speculation. I honestly don't think they are actually flamethrowers and I doubt even less that they are an attack you can switch to.


I think that is even more incentive for them to be able to attack air. If indeed they cannot switch to flame-throwers then they would be even less of a useful unit. Otherwise they would be only useful against ground, only useful as base raiders in early game, having use only as a base raider when someone has cliffs and not gorges/water surrounding their base, and still being outclassed by marines as far as general use goes.

I think the cliff jumping ability is being over hyped quite a bit. I would probably take a group of marines and medics at the price of walking any day.

[Itsmyship]

To me, Reapers being able to attack air is just....cheap imo :-\
I also figure that there has to be at least ONE basic unit in every race that can't attack air (medic doesn't count). I'm sure people would find uses for reaper, most likely a flanking unit that might have relatively the same function as the Stalker.

[PowerkickasS]

hey who'd you think would win?
marine vs reaper (no flammies :P)

[Patuljak]

Maybe the reapers won't replace firebats after all. If you look at protoss, well, so far we've got 3 units that can be produced from the gateway - zealots, stalkers and immortals. If you add high and dark templars, which are likely to be included in the game and which are both made from the gateway, we've got 5 different units you can make from the basic barracks. It could be the same for terrans (marines, firebats, reapers, medics, ghosts). Who said that they're gonna replace firebats anyway?

[Itsmyship]

Well, I personally never use firebat, and i'm preety sure not a lot of other do either. I guess it was just figured that they'd be dumped *shrug*


hey who'd you think would win?
marine vs reaper (no flammies :P)


Hmm....tis a tough one....might have to say the marine, cuz reaper seems a lot frailer than them.

[burkid]

reaper would probably lose because its only using dual pistols, while the marine is using a gauss rifle. and marine will probably be able to stim

[PowerkickasS]

which one do you think would cost more?
marine vs reaper

[Itsmyship]

Probly reaper if you count some Vespene, but mineral-wise, probably near the same

[Patuljak]

I'm just saying that perhaps dumping firebats was never intended

which one do you think would cost more?
marine vs reaper

probably reaper, because of their fancy turbojets

[LimaBeanMage]

To me, Reapers being able to attack air is just....cheap imo :-\
I also figure that there has to be at least ONE basic unit in every race that can't attack air (medic doesn't count). I'm sure people would find uses for reaper, most likely a flanking unit that might have relatively the same function as the Stalker.


If I've learned one thing in all of my time playing SC is that people really like to be efficient. If reapers don't have a clean cut purpose that differentiates them enough from other units or if they are outclassed by another simple strategy/unit combo then they won't be used.

That is what happened to firebats. Their purpose wasn't replaced but their usefulness was when medics were introduced. Everything that you could kill with firebats you could also kill with marines and medics, and then some. Granted, people will still use them because they can but they probably won't fit into popular strategies that everyone learns.

And as for marines vs. reapers... well, it depends. If they can't attack air then reapers would probably win because they were designed to kill small ground targets. If they can attack air then marines would probably win because marines are better all-round, at least for attacking purposes.

[Ghost]

The reaper would just run away and jump over a cliff and shoot from a safe distance. Or just run away indefinately.

I think that the reapers cost (judging by what they have shown me up to now) will be something like this: Minerals: 35 Gas: 25.

[PowerkickasS]

yeah. i hope they come real cheap. hehe

[Ghost]

Not too cheap, otherwise terrans could overrun zergs! xD

[LimaBeanMage]

If they were that cheap then people would use them all the time. Fast moving hoppers that are so easily replaced would make fighting Terran extremely annoying if your opponent was good at attacking multiple points at once.

But yeah, zerg are the cheap fast massing race. Terran can't infringe on their strategy due to Blizzard's more unique race traits. ;)

[PowerkickasS]

If they were that cheap then people would use them all the time. Fast moving hoppers that are so easily replaced would make fighting Terran extremely annoying if your opponent was good at attacking multiple points at once.

i sooooooo hope they're cheap! :D

Not too cheap, otherwise terrans could overrun zergs! xD

wouldnt that be funny....xD

[Ghost]

It would be hilarious, I think that 35/25 is ideal.

[Patuljak]

It's prolly gonna be 50 plus some vespene gas.

[Ghost]

Nuu! must be cheap! 50 plus gas for a light infantry unit? With what we know about them now I wouldnt bother making them.

[SirBaron]

Personally i think the Reaper is a support unit, maybe they have a certain 'ling value early game for rushing (provided they can be built early) but otherwise they're just base-harassment units who go in the backdoor while the bulk of your forces go in front. And i also think it's a little bit too early to say anything about the Reaper, or ANY unit for that matter, seeing as the narrator of the gameplay vid claimed that "nothing you see here is final."

[Light]

fast, hard-hitting unit, that will have a strategic value on the battlefield. swift raider, attacking the back and the flanks, heavy machinery, lightining attacks vs infantry or defended positions, it would be a really special and useful.

[Ghost]

unless they cant even get close to any of the previously mentioned.

[LimaBeanMage]

Yeah, defense in SC seems to have no flank per say. All defenses really have 360 degrees of lethality so I would definitely say that they are are not viable for defense breaking, considering how weak they are in hp/armor.

[paragon]

flanking as in going past defenses entirely and killing off the important stuff.

[Singuris]

so will it be an early game unit is my question because then terran will be very deadly. (I'm assuming that the colossus is late game due to it's size)

Do you think the reaper have the Jump ability to jump gaps like in space maps ect. like assault squads in dawn of war?

[PowerkickasS]

Do you think the reaper have the Jump ability to jump gaps like in space maps ect. like assault squads in dawn of war?

o m g i really hope so!!!!!!!
RAPTORS, TO THE HUNT

[Arachanox]

The Reaper has to be a weak unit, or at least have a short range. If a Terran player micro'd his Reapers against a group of zerglings, all he would have to do is jump up a cliff and shoot down at them. If the lings climbed up a nearby ramp to the top, the reapers could jump right back down to the bottom and shoot up. Repeat as necessary.

If they were weak, it would still make the reapers invincible against zerglings by using the cliff trick. I think making them have a short range is ideal, so that they can't fire up cliffs. Or just play against players who are smart enough to divide their lings on both sides of the cliff. :P

[ZiiDriX]

^ That gave me an idea! :P

What if Zerglings could climb up cliffs? :D

[burkid]

well lings do have wings now, so its possible, but it would suck to have 100+ lings just swarming up a cliff past your defences.

[DontHate]

yea lings going up cliffs would make no sence. ur base would be rubble in seconds.

[Goliath Online]

I really hope that reapers dont take the place of firebats... I loved using firebats

[Singuris]

Do you think the reaper have the Jump ability to jump gaps like in space maps ect. like assault squads in dawn of war?

o m g i really hope so!!!!!!!
RAPTORS, TO THE HUNT


Chaos owns

[starcraft2]

I much didnt really care about the firebat i found it of no use and only use them if i really had too. But i am getting the idea that the reaper will replace the firebat, i dont know why but thats just the way itll seem to work out for terran.

(not much of a pyromaniac ;)

[GuiMontag]

the reaper is the new firebat :P
just an armour upgrade.

[[LightMare]]

cough cough, weapons upgrade

[Ych9]

From what we know of the Reapers, they will have dual attack mode.
As seen in the gameplay video, they had dual pistols, while in the PC gamer magazine video, they were shooting flamethrowers. But of course, this is all just pure speculation. I sure won't be missing the Firebats if the Reapers are actually replacing them because the Reapers are just soo much cooler than the Firebats.

[FlyingTiger]

eh the firebats were really useful against the zerg infantry and the protoss infantry. They take down shields like no tommorow!

[LimaBeanMage]

I really hope the didn't take the firebat out, although it seems somewhat likely. I just like the firebat as a unique unit with a memorable voice/quotes. I think the firebat from the SC: ghost videos really looked cool. But then again, that's just my personal preference.

[FlyingTiger]

I'm sure the reaper will be a souped up version of the firebat. I mean they need to use fire in starcraft!

"Let's burn!"

[LimaBeanMage]

Oh yeah, if they replacing the firebat I'm going to rearrange the sounds so they are that of a classic firebat. If I don't fall in love with the reaper's new voice. ^_^

[Ghost]

If the reaper does not get flamethrowerd they should not replace firebats. I love firebats against rushes, i personally go for F&M rushes.

[Gorythax]

Besides, if we're gonna have a Mini TD or Zombie Attack remake in SC2, what could we possibly do without bats?

[Ghost]

Lol, true.

[paragon]

I really hope that reapers dont take the place of firebats... I loved using firebats

yeah who wants flying firebats anyways. lets just have firebats that have to go around when the encounter a cliff

[Lemonparty]

The life of a Firebat (''real-life''-wise)

Get in the front line
Burn some zerglings
Get outnumbered by zerglings
Die a painful death
Become the first Firebat in Firebat history to have survived more than 30 seconds in a fight

[starcraft2]

wat if you could upgrade reapers with flamers tht would be cool, then they could still have dual wield pistol but just have the flamers on thier arm when enemies get to close.

[beBoy]

From what we know of the Reapers, they will have dual attack mode.
As seen in the gameplay video, they had dual pistols, while in the PC gamer magazine video, they were shooting flamethrowers. But of course, this is all just pure speculation. I sure won't be missing the Firebats if the Reapers are actually replacing them because the Reapers are just soo much cooler than the Firebats.


Agree, I just love how I could drop bats and mass killing the probes and run away. Now with Reapers I could simply send them to climb cliffs and do the job, saving me to tech up to dropship :)

[silky2007]

The FIREBAT is the perfect unit for CLOSE COMBAT SITUATIONS ... those a lot of damage on buldings to ... there cheap to train ... and early in the game ... a fast raid with marines and firebats ... would finish up anything ...

if u are a experienced player ... u learn ... that u must make your biggest weakness ur advantage ... many think ... that terran players trench themselfs up ... untill they make ghosts and battle cruisers ... IF u r a experinced player ... you would know that the FIREBAT is one of the best units of the terran forces

WE NEED BATS ... NOT REAPPERS Sad(


Merged posts. Please read the forum rules and do not triple post.

[Major Willy]

We need to stop triple posting.

[starcraft2]

dude, c'mon firebats werent all that great, they got ripped apart from long range, unless you upgraded them with more armor, firebats in my point of view are not needed, wat is though is the reapers they look like versetile units. And dude you dont have to get so serious we havent even seen wat the terrans have or dont have the forum was made for early sepculations about the game. I wasnt saying the firebats are gone i was just giving my opiniin about them and reapers.

[kehmdaddy]

I dunno, the reapers seem pretty flimsy and don't pack much of a punch, atleast in my take from the videos. I actually think there will be some sort of upgrade though that lets the reaper use flamethrowers.

[tweakismyname]

hmm i think the reapers will be better then the firebats (speculation) i mean firebats were only really effective vrs mass zerglings that ive seen and reapers are the only units (so far) that look like you will be able to get them relatively early and they still will be able to cross terrain

[GuiMontag]

reapers pretty much are firebats, their just more maneuverable, which is what they should have been like to begin with

[Dreadnought]

Terrans never really had good harassment other than wraiths or maybe a marines drop. I think these units will alow the terrabs to put pressure at mutliple places now rather than the main entrance to a base lol. (Battle Cruisers imo were their only really good way of punching through defenses.)

[DKutrovsky]

Well, mass zerglings early game, and mass zealots early game will be hard to stop without firebats i'll tell you that much. Also firebats were the reason you can rush a zerg with sunkens and zerglings early on.

Edit: the reapers shooting flames is not true. I watched the vid, those are not flames those were their gas tanks exploding going everywhere, not flamethrowers, they may have them in the future but from the current vids it doesnt look like they have been upgraded with that just yet.

[Gorythax]

Ehhhh, I don't know... Jet-Pack or not, I don't think it'll ever replace the bats. Besides, think of it. Would the Terran Really get an unit who can cross cliffs this early in the game?

Oh, by the way, tweak, nice pic, Vivi's teh bestest ;D

[DKutrovsky]

Yeah, they would, the jump packs would make a great side assault unit and a harrasor, it seems its pretty good HP/armor wise too, more than the marine at least.

I

[Gorythax]

Well my point is if it's so good, they shouldn't get it so fast.

[DKutrovsky]

I really doubt it would be any later than academy in the tech tree

[starcraft2]

well lets see us protoss get the immortals pretty ealry on ,reapers would be needed to counter alot of protoss stuff, reapers dont seem to pack that much of a punch, but i would think that they should have to considering theyre probably there to harass and take down larger units en mass, like in the video there wasnt more then like 8 reapers against i think it was close to 6 or so immortals, and immortals having more firepower should of taken out all the reapers.

[DKutrovsky]

There were actually a lot of reapers, we may see something along the lines of 30/30 minerals/gas for reapers, thats just a hunch though.

But yeah, they are good but not amazing. They are good to harras however, maybe for the first time in history the terran will harrass, no more DT or lurker harrasment or reaver drops or w/e...

[marinepower]

No, firebats are essenstial for the terrans, so bliz can't take them out. The firebats are the only effective units the terrans have against mass basic unit rushes from the zerg and protoss. They are great at taking out shields, so they might even be counters for those immortals with the harden shields. Also, besides the firebat, the only other unit that will have stim and be useful in a bunker is a marine, so stimpack might be a waste to upgrade, and bunkers might lose some of their value in early game situations.

Considering all these drawbacks, terrans should keep the firebat.

[DKutrovsky]

We dont know if the marines still have the stim pack, or if the reaper will have a stim pack. But i dont mind replacing firebats with reapers. They seem more versatile

[starcraft2]

yeah, we could make the speculation that the reapers are just firebats that have taken a new name outfit and job, thats wat i think is going to happen. The firebats were tired of being pyromaniacs and decided to learn how to fly, but instead they got big booster packs and were able to jump at distances. there the firebat is just now called the reaper cause it looks better they can jump thier long range and, phhhhh thier better. And notice how the firebat was the only close proximity attacker in the terran army not counting the scv.

[DKutrovsky]

Yeah, i prefer the reapers over the firebats to be honest, i love the bats, but they were too narow in use. Reapers have much more uses. AND they shoot flames

[starcraft2]

well we dont exactly no that yet, we may havw seen them shoot fire, or it could of been just an explosion going off. But the reapers like ive said before look more versitile at taking out the bigger units kinda like mini immortals with jet-packs

[DKutrovsky]

heheh

There's a long road ahead of SC2, so they might put bats on, take em off, and put em on again, heck they can scratch the reaper idea for all we know

[BaneOfHumanity]

Is it just me...or do the reapers just sound like a bad idea....

Much like the toss "vultures"

[Nikzad]

I'm not exactly sold on the reapers in their entirety, so I can't comment on wanting a remodel. They kinda remind me of little annoying bugs. Gnats. Mosquitoes. Flies. Something. Yehhhhhhhh *annoyed noise*

[kehmdaddy]

You want the Reapers to attack... with their invincible jetpacks? I'm sorry, I don't get it. And if they want the jetpack to blow up at an enemy after they die, they could just simply add a few animations and an AoE death explosion.

[Exvasion]

Well, for one. I don't think a reaper could withstand the g forces of flying erratically like an interceptor. Secondly, I don't know how he would be able to control it. And thirdly, how would he be able to aim and shoot when he's flying so fast. As for originality, I can understand why you would want it not to be like a unit from another game, I've never played dawn of war so I can't say. It does strike me as very "warhammer 40kish" but I'm not bothered by that. To me, it looks like a great unit that will be lots of fun to use and offer a lot of exciting strategies.

SLAUGHTER 'EM BOYS!!!

[Major Willy]

They don't look like insects. They look like armoured Terran men with guns and jetpacks.
And why do they need to self destruct? They have bombs already.
They don't need to fly, they can go up and down cliffs. The only terrain they can't cross is space and water.

[Nikzad]

I didn't say they looked like insects. I said they reminded me of insects. Regardless, no need to be a smartass.

[AdmiralAckbar]

I think the reapers should have flamethrowers, no pistols at all, pistols dont make sense for a primary weapon, why wouldnt they have submachine guns. Did anyone else notice that reapers look EXACTLY the same as jango fett but with a different head and larger pistols and jetpack, the colors are even the same.

[Major Willy]

Reavers are giant mechanical worms that don't have heads, pistols or jetpacks.

Gold and blue aren't the same as whatever green Jango was.

[kehmdaddy]

I'm afraid I disagree with you Admiral Ackbar. I don't see the resemblance to Jango Fett at all; yes, both have jetpacks and pistols... so what? And I believe flamethrowers will be an upgrade for the Reaper. You can see one shoot off a flame attack in the leaked gameplay video.
And good catch about reaver/reaper, Major Willy.

[Major Willy]

Thanks Kehm. More news tomorrow at 6:00. This, is CNN.

Nikzad now that you mention the insect aspect of the Reaper I can see it now. They did fly down and swarm the Immortals and they'll be able to attack player's "homes" (as in bases, see what I did there?) in large groups.

[StormCrow]

Jango Fett doesn't have any green on him, Boba Fett does :P Back to the topic however.

Overall I think the Reapers are fine. But I agree that 2 pistols don't feel quite effective in SC universe. I would rather like to see a flamethrower or long range napalm (or what ever flame) greanades the Reapers could throw from distance.

- Rocket launchers trough upgrade ?

- Ability to put spike wire on choke points would be plain awsome! the spike wire would have Hit Points, and when ever an organic enemy passes trough it or touches it, it recieves damage and the wire loses some hp. It also slows down the enemy for a few seconds ?

- Another crazy idea for Reaper: They have gas masks right ? Where are the toxic gas greanades ? would replace irradiate if the Sience vessel isn't going to make a comeback.


I have to correct my first sentence about the Reapers. They aren't completely fine yet :)

[AdmiralAckbar]

They look the same different helmet bigger/goofier guns and jetpack
Major Willy, reaPers are different than reaVers

[Major Willy]

Did anyone else notice that reavers look EXACTLY the same as jango fett but with a different head and larger pistols and jetpack, the colors are even the same.

Bolded the mistake.

Reavers are giant mechanical worms that don't have heads, pistols or jetpacks.
Gold and blue aren't the same as whatever green Jango was.

And quoted my response to that mistake. Do you see it now?

Reapers look way better than Jango. End of story. Starcraft universe > Star Wars'.

[AdmiralAckbar]

At least starwars is original and didnt rip off everyother scifi movie like starcraft does. Jangos helmet is cooler and the enourmous jetpack and pistols are just gay. how would you even lift the pistols. They should just strap a jetpack on some firebats.

[Major Willy]

Well first, close 3 fingers around the handle of the pistol. You then place your free index finger, onto the trigger. Enjoy your new armed pistol.

And every Sci Fi film has the same elements as every other movie.

[Wlck742]

That's why Sci Fi is called Sci Fi... it's based off of science, which is (nearly) the same everywhere.

[AdmiralAckbar]

Technically starwars is space fantasy..... Things take elements from other things, starcraft just takes things, blizzard itself says they are heavally influenced by starship troopers and aliens. can you not see how looks reaper just like jango fett. tell me what star wars ripped off from other scifi movies especially at the level the reaper rips off jango fett.

[Major Willy]

A small Terran infantry unit looking like Jango Fett is that serious?

[Wlck742]

The reapers look fine. Just because they have a jetpack and pistols doesn't mean they're rip offs of Jango Fett. We don't need people attaching conspiracy theories to everything.

And of course SC takes things from sci-fi movies. It's a sci-fi game.

[AdmiralAckbar]

its just a blatant ripoff if theyre going to make jango fett at least do it right and have a cool helmet and normal sized accesories. The Reapers enormous pistols are just GAY! wrist mounted flamethrowers like the firebats (or jango fett for that matter) would be better.

its not the jetpack and pistols look at the picture: same armour, same chestplate, same boots, belt, color , the jetpack and pistols are just the icing on the cake.

[Major Willy]

So if a man pulled out a giant gun and pointed it at you, you'd start insulting him.

And Reapers will be able to switch to Flamethrowers, presumably from their wrists.
But Jango came first, so Firebats and Reapers with the upgrade are clearly rip-offs.

[Wlck742]

^Well said, Major Willy :powerup: ^

And it's not a big deal if they look slightly the same. It's not a felony for taking a concept that's been done over and over hundreds of times, or else half the movie directors and game makers would be in prison right now.

[Chris Benoit]

The Reaper shares an uncanny resemblance to Jango Fett. Look at the armor, the shin pads, the shoulder pads. Yeah his mask looks different and he has an enormous jet pack. But other than that the similarities are remarkable.

And Starcraft takes alot of things from other games/movies. The Dropship, for example, is taken directly from Starship Troopers. Starcraft takes tons of quotes from movies. I'm not saying it makes Starcraft any less of an awesome game, but you just can't argue for the originality of some things in Starcraft.

[Wlck742]

I never said Starcraft was original, of course it isn't. Lasers, robots, superintelligent aliens and bloodthirsty aliens with no mind, etc. have all been done before. Starcraft as a game isn't original either, it's just that it's been polished so much you can see the reflection of a spider spinning a web on it a mile away. There's a 99% chance that once you actually start playing the game, you'll forget all about this.

[AdmiralAckbar]

i agree with benoit, and starcraft is awsome but starwars is superior because of its originality contrary to what Major Willy thinks. By the way the dropship is taken from Aliens,
A concept thats been done hundreds of times? it hasnt the reaper aestheticlly speaking is just a blatant ripoff of a specific character the concept of some one in a jetpack is not the problem

[Chris Benoit]

Ah, you're right. It is from Aliens. I remember now Starship Troopers had those ugly box-looking ships.

[Wlck742]

If you think Star Wars is so much better than Starcraft, why don't you just play your KOTOR or whatever and stop shaming the good name of Starcraft. I agree Star Wars is a great movie, the best Sci-fi series imo, but that doesn't mean you could just criticize everything that has anything to do with space, lasers, jetpacks, and aliens.

[AdmiralAckbar]

Did you even read my posts

the reapers look stupid on top of that they are ripoffs. Why would a military use pistols, wouldnt they use submachineguns. Terran should have a melee unit keep flamethrowers only.
Im not critisizing starcraft in general, just reapers (thats what the thread is about)
I only brought up originality to defend star wars against major willy's claims

So if a man pulled out a giant gun and pointed it at you, you'd start insulting him. What did that even mean? If a man pulled out a reaper sized gun and couldnt lift it up to aim at me i would start laughing at him.

[Chris Benoit]

Lol KotOR isn't even a RTS. Why would you tell someone to go play that if they don't like how the Reaper looks? The Reaper looks just like Jango Fett, there's no doubt about it. That's not a problem. His stupid pistols are. Give him a flamethrower.

[Lemonparty]

Pretty much everything is ripped off everything. And it has to, it doesn't take a genius to think of a guy that has a sword with super cool light and that can cast special powers.. or a guy with a jetpack and 2 pistols. But yeah Reapers are specialized units. Pretty sure they're used for hit and run tactics and infiltration, hence why they have pistols and jetpacks. And well, if we were to give everybody real badass guns, might aswell all have rocket launchers, shotguns and nuclear launchers (and real nuclear bombs with real explosion and real deadly gas). Hell, just have some biological weapons and it's the end of the Protoss/Zerg.. well maybe not Zergs.

[AdmiralAckbar]

the terran dont have a melee unit anymore they need flamethrowers again pistols dont make sense as a primary weapon, rocket launchers and nuclear weapons are not useful in all situations so you wouldnt equip an army with them.
what do pistols have to do with hit and run tactics wouldnt a weapon with a high rof be better becuase you could do more damage in a smaller amount of time.

[Lemonparty]

The only melee units Humans could have are.. well.. ninjas, Humans are weak, hell we don't even stand a chance vs most of the animals on our own planet, we suck in close combat. And it's not like you can block a zerglings attack or a psi-blade with your super 1337 ninjutsu attacks.

[AdmiralAckbar]

from a gameplay standpoint terran should have melee like firebats. And in a mechanized marine suit im sure a human could kick the **** out of any animal on earth.

[Major Willy]

Firebats aren't melee, they had a range of 2.

[Chris Benoit]

Except for Rabid Wolverines! I bet I could make any Marine tap.

[Chris Benoit]

Firebats are melee. They need to get very close to the enemy to attack. So they have 1 more range than Zerglings or Zealots, that doesn't make them ranged like units with 5+ range.

[Lemonparty]

Yeah well in a marine suit a human sure could kick a bear's ass. They still get cut in 2 by Zealots. Firebats were just sacrifices and the Trailer of SC:Ghosts pretty much prove that. A firebat stands no chance. Terran = Technology. Humans are weaks and it's not really different in real life except if you train alot, but even then, I could kick the ass of any single boxer/wrestler/kung-fu guy/whatever with a gun, so yeah.

[Chris Benoit]

From a gameplay mechanic point of view, Terrans need a melee unit to be balanced. There are situations were a melee unit is needed instead of ranged (Dark Swarm).

[Lemonparty]

Marines are the meatshields, I guess their force in SC2 will be strong siege attacks so it makes it though for melee units to reach marines, which will have a 15 hp/shield upgrade. We'll see anyway.

[zeratul11]

i think the pistols of the reapers looks fine. (at least in the artwork) its not small, its big and like a shorter version of the marines guns.

[Nikzad]

once again, I state that I am not totally in love with the reaper, but seriously, Star Wars is not as original as people might think. Ever seen that show on the History Channel about how Star Wars is based on History? You don't need to see it to know that Boba/Jango's helmet is like an exaggerated version of Ancient Roman helmets...stormtroopers are based on Nazis, the Emperor is Hitler, etc.

And besides, since when did Jango Fett have exclusive rights to the jetpack (extremely useful and widely used method of transportation, in science fiction) and pistol (widely used weapon) combination? It's like saying that CS is a ripoff of Rambo because of the ability to use big knives to kill people

[capthavic]

Eveything is influenced by everything so just stop. And just because someone else uses a jetpack or whatever it doesn't mean that no one else can use one too.

Firebats weren't all that usefull imo. Because their fire couldn't suppress they got shredded in no time even with a medic. They were more useful just in bunkers or cannon fodder to buy marines some time.

And last I heard Reapers could upgrade to flamethrowers, so there you go.

[DontHate]

to be honest, i dont think the reapers pistols are that great... i mean, it's a damn pistol. i would prefer if they had something more usefull, like a flame thrower. i know there's going to be some upgrade but still, i wish they had it all the time.

[Major Willy]

They have DUAL pistols. Haven't you seen any western movies?

Pistols > Anything you will ever use/see/purchase.

[zeratul11]

here take a look from one of the screenshots.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5861/ss37copysa0.jpg

actual image: http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8359/ss37rh0.jpg

you guys think those are the reaper's time bomb?
im guessing it is, tho its planted on the ground not on building and units as described.

anyway i think it looks cool with the timer (orange bar) and better than the vultures spider mine. well i dont think they move, but im sure they will cause huge damage than the previous spider mine. 8)

anyway blizzcon is coming and im sure we can see the bombs live in one of the new gameplay demo.

[stat]

they are called pistol. but they are no ordinary pistols used by brokeback cowboys. those are big high tech pistols!

[Indigent]

Yes, it is a reaper bomb and I hope that they have more HP. It is really annoying considered that they don't explode in 30 SECONDS. Considering that they can be blown up. Where ARE the reapers in that immage though? Never mind I found the reaper. (It/they was/were behind the minerals.)

[zeratul11]

30 seconds is enough and fair i think and lessening it would be imba.maybe you can spam them and they do huge damage umm 50- 100. ^^

view the actual image and you can see the reapers at the back of the minerals. ^^

[Indigent]

I like the way reaper moves and goes up and down cliffs but it can't fly... Like it would be neat to just fly in exhange of energy. And I like the wepon upgrades especialy rocket luanchers :good: ;D :thumbup: but one for one thing, I think we can all agree that pistols for primary weapons is wierd.

[ArchLimit]

I actually think having pistols is kinda cool. Of course, as mentioned, they DO look pretty techy, which is why they're cool. If they were revolvers or something that'd be weird and pretty lame IMO. But I think the idea of wielding dual pistols as an idea is pretty sweet in of itself. I think I'd like to see a tiny bit of a larger burst illumination per shot. In the demo, it kinda looked like the Reapers were just scratching the Immortals nuts.

[Indigent]

Well, then atleast make the guns not look so wimpy (No offence just my opionion give it a futureistic look) and add some fire power like what archlimit said.

[ZiiDriX]

Wont be 300s ;( That would 1 shot the sups :p

[TheOneInPower]

I personally like the pistols. They make sence. If the reaper had huge machine guns or rocket launchers he would be unrealisticly heavy and couldn't do the flight-jump. And pistols are quick so they are perfect for hit and run. If they were weighed down they couldn't pull off the 'run' part very well.

[burkid]

Well, then atleast make the guns not look so wimpy

maybe they are halo 1 pistols ;D
they werent anything near 'wimpy.'

[Joneagle_X]

I'm with Nikzad on the iffyness of the Reapers. It seems like a strange addition to the terran infantry. I also think it's a little strange that an infantry unit would be hopping over things instead of remaining in a concentrated group where medics would be more effective.

They also seem to play on that intangible desire people have for the use of dueling pistols. They're found in just about every FPS game on the market from Tomb Raider to Counter Strike.... weird. Add a Jet Pack to that and you've got the Rocketeer on crack!

As for it being a ripoff, I certainly don't see anything wrong with borrowing ideas like this.....

[Nikzad]

people like dual pistols because it makes them feel like a guy in an action film

I know thats how I feel when I get a kill once every 5 months with the Dualies in CS:S after emptying two whole clips in an alley


I certainly don't see anything wrong with borrowing ideas like this.....


It's like "HEY! That phoenix in SC2 uses wings to fly! WTF blatant copying of real life...come on blizzard be original this is not warcraft in space"

[DontHate]

maybe they are halo 1 pistols ;D
they werent anything near 'wimpy.'

Lol, i know. But seriously, if u look these guns look like blocks, sort of like the smg's from the space marines in warhammer 40k.

[FlyingTiger]

I rather have the reapers use flamethrowers as a primary weapon. So their role is Johnny on the Spot with fire!

[Joneagle_X]

Yea, I do think whining about ideas that may be similar to other games and/or movies is a little ridiculous. It's pretty hard to come up with completely new units.

Anyone have any clue as to the use of the Reaper in relation to medics? I mean they won't be effective. You can't use just the Reapers and Medics or anything.... Usually Terran infantry sticks together for a reason...