Xel'Naga

[Darktemplar_L]

Vote

[paragon]

I think they should play a role but not a big one. They were hinted at so much in 1 that not giving them a role in 2 would be very anticlimactic.

[MrFrancko]

I would just like to see them do something of importance in the plot. They are talked about so much that it would be nice to get a real look at what they are about.

[SuperMarioPsycho]

i want the xelnaga to be a more evolved version of the protoss. the zerg is like the crappy twin sister of the protoss. ;D

[MrFrancko]

I'd say the Toss are more the yummy snack for the zerg

[[LightMare]]

ok look. it's a yes or no question. definately yes? come on! it's like saying extra cool. there is onyl cool. cool is the roof

[Darktemplar_L]

ok look. it's a yes or no question. definately yes? come on! it's like saying extra cool. there is onyl cool. cool is the roof

Well sorry i couldnt come up with any other words to put there. lol

[stizur]

Yes! and its aboot tyme.

[Itsmyship]

I always thought the Xel'naga were like...12 or so gods or demi-gods or something...guess i was wrong then *shrug*

[paragon]

I thought they were a bunch of aliens that traveled around on these massive space ships and most of them were killed by the Zerg... like it said in the SC manual.

[PowerkickasS]

yeah they were supposedly eradicated to extinction. so when they found one in the game i wuz lik z0mg. and dey were nomadic, so i thought dat xelnaga building was all that remained of them.

[CarriersMustReturn]

Yes, with hybrids coming in, there really should be some Xel'Nage showing up!

[paragon]

Why would nomads build some massive ****in temple anyways...
I always figured that since they were nomads they weren't all in the same place when the Zerg attacked.

[PowerkickasS]

ummm....they like to travel together? like what most nomadic species tries to do
are there any proof that the xel naga temple isnt THE xel naga race? like the race is made up of these big computer buildings O_O. and i thought those xel naga temples were their spaceships that they travel around the place with....i seriously dunno where i got these ideas from. somehow manifested years ago while i read da starcraft manual 0.0?"

[paragon]

I think you are confusing them with the Bentusi from Homeworld...
The Xel'Naga were organic beings.
Bedouins are nomadic and they aren't all traveling together.
Gypsies are nomadic and they aren't all traveling together.

[PowerkickasS]

like herds of animals and stuff. they 'try' to travel together? well actually i wuz mainly thinking about eldar o.0
ive neva touched homeworld b4 lol

[mc2]

Personally I'd like to see the Xel'Naga to not make an appearance in the story in starcraft 2. They've played an extremely important role in creating the Protoss and Zerg. Without them there'll be no starcraft.

This is the thing, I really liked the secretive and mysterious nature of the Xel'Naga from starcraft 1. So I'd like them to remain that way. They'll be know as the creators or the 2 races with an aim to make the perfect race. So Blizzard properly made Duran in order to not have to reveal too much of the Xel.

[Outcaster]

i want to see how a Xel'naga looks like, maybe some kind of pure energy like the entity in the Sc book, Shadow of the Xel'naga

[capthavic]

I thought the zerg killed all of them, but apparently some got away. They must not have been very special physically because as far as I know the zerg didn't use any of their traits in the various breeds.

It will be interesting how big a role they will play and in what way.

[paragon]

they could just retcon them back into the story if they zerg had supposedly killed all of them off

[capthavic]

Well that's possible. If I remember correctly they were very vauge about what happend and didn't explicitly say that they all died. It was just one of those things where you just assume that it happened.

I hope they work it in believeably. I hate it when things are blatently overwritten.

[TidalSpiral]

You know, they very well could be machines or energy beings...

Think about what Capthavic said, the Zerg didn't use any of their traits. Kind of bizarre I'd think since they were so well established as a galactic race. That doesn't make sense unless a) somehow the Zerg caused all the ships to explode so no bodies were found after they attacked or b) there wasn't any bodies to collect because nothing died in a biological sense.

What about if they are machines and energy? Imagine a mechanical Archon, a big machine guy with power flying off of him. Cool. lol

[i2new@aol.com]

I think the Xel'Naga are a bunch of *****s.....They Left the protoss because the protoss started fighting with each other. The Xel'Naga say the power of the protoss and said hay if they get are Technoligy there gannna own the living **** out of us. So they ran away and made the zerg to protect them selfs......What do u guys think dose that sound true or what! The zerg didnt know what the Xel'Naga were thinking so they killed them. Thats what i think happened

[brc9210]

No the Xel'Naga just viewed the protoss as a failure because they started fighting each other so they just left. Eventually they found the zerg which at that time were little more than parasitic larvae. The Xel'Naga made them stronger and eventually the zerg started assimilating other races into their gene pool, but this time the Xel'Naga were more cautious. They decided to create an Overmind to control the zerg and unfiy them so that they would not make the same mistake as the protss had and fight each other. The Overmind shared a psiconic link with the Xel'Naga and through this the race prospered. Eventually the zerg had assimilated every race on their home planet into their gene pool so the overmind started to wonder what its future would be. It decided that it didnt need the xel'Naga anymore so it closed its psiconic link with them. This suprised the Xel'Naga and they didnt know what was going on until the zerg attacked them. It caught the Xel'Naga totally off guard and the zerg killed most if not all of them. The OVermind learned of the protoss threw some Xel'Naga stuff much the same way it learned where Auir was through Zeratul and it decided that it should assimilate the protoss to complete what the Xel'Naga had started and become all powerful, only problem was it had no idea where Auir was so it just started off on a blind search. Eventually it came across the terran which were considered a weak race so the zerg didnt bother trying to assimilate them. This chnaged when the Overmind realized it pretty much had no chance of D\defeating the Protoss becuase their psiconic potenial was so much greater than its own. It was for this reason the overmind became intrested in the terrans because the terrans had some psiconic potenial. The protoss got really lucky when tassadar found one of the zergs deep space probes and when they put it next to one of those crystal things it reacted which is how they knew the zerg were also creatures created by the Xel'Naga, and thats pretty much everything that happened before Starcraft org involving the Xe'Naga.

[CapMan]

i think blizzard should make it so the Xel,naga show up in sc2 but dont play a huge part, but mabey just show up

[DontHate]

they could make then show up like the naga in tft, like u get some xel naga units in the campain to play with.

[Lemmy]

Maybe they will think that both protoss and zerg suck, and adopt terrans as their personal favourites.

[burkid]

well according to the only part of the live feed that worked for me, protoss campaign is going to involve the Xel'Naga. it even has Xel'Naga in the name of the campaign.

[Tym29]

Yep it seems they are going to play a huge role in the single player game campaigns… I assume as the player methodically works through the universe collecting relics of the lost race only to find that the Xel'Naga haven’t all been destroyed. They  just moved out of known space.  So since the xel’nage played such an important role in the creation of the other two races I wonder if at the end of it all we find out that they created the terrans as well... As the balancing force in the universe?
So paraphrasing wikipedia Xel'Naga's primary intent was purity of form, and they traveled the galaxy, altering many species they encountered to enhance their purity of form. However, each time they were met by failure. Maybe after the first two failures they decided a single race alone could not achieve “purity of form” and instead set out to produce “purity of balance” in the universe as a whole.  With the creation of the terrans....Then sat back to watch.

[GuiMontag]

i really hope that isnt the case, it would just be to corny, especially since all the terrans are rednecks :P

[Tym29]

    Hey you noticed that too. The scv pilots all look like they're straight from the truckstop gutter. 
but on a different note....
    Have any of you played “Escape Velocity” also known as “EV”? It’s a fairly impressive shareware game of Mac gamers that goes back about 15 years, though there have been some more recent updates. It was from an upstart called Ambrosia that also made a number of other awesome titles. If anyone else has played the game or is willing to do some research on the topic you’ll know where I’m coming from on this one.  
Everyone who plays the game raves about how much fun it would be as a MMO universe.     
   Anyway the way Mr. Pardo described the single player campaigns in SC2 today at Blizzcon sounds so much like Blizzard is picking up the same story line of “Escape Velocity” only, with the Battle.Net already in place and WOW already up and running it would only be a very natural progression of the Stracraft Universe MMO after SC2.  Clearly they wouldn’t start any of that until after SC2 was finished and maybe after an expansion set was made. But the thought of an online universe with traders and mercenaries and pirates and zerg and weird alien technologies and artifacts to collect and missions by warring political factions and clans all sounds kinda fun.

[Tym29]

hey im glad im not the only one who played it. I loved it too.

[DeathRot]

glad to hear it

zeratul talking to james raynor at the hyperion during the cutscene of the single player



"James Raynor"

"Zeratul!"
"I bring tidings of doom, the Xel'naga returns, the cycle nears its end, the artifacts are the key"
"Key to what?"
"To the end of all things"


it seem that the xel naga play a very BIG role in the upcoming single player storyline in sc2

[string_me_along]

Sorry, this may be the longest post ever here... but hopefully it will make sense and be (somewhat) well reasoned.

It's been flying around that the Xel'Naga are going to be reintroduced into SC2, namely from the BroodWar Dark Origin Mission (which was awesome) and from what people have said about Zertul and Raynor from Blizzcon. I think reintroducing them is awesome, however, it has also been suggested that they would be a NPC race or some sort of super race. I think this is a terrible idea. Here's why:


1. WC3 sucked. Why? I blame the burning legion. Suddenly there was this "other" force from outside the player controlled realm of the game which was the ultimate evil that all the races needed to team up against. This is what would basically have to happen against an all powerful Xel'Naga. Interesting? Slightly.

What has always captivated me about the starcraft universe is that it has such an amazing story line with deep and reverberating characters. Why is this? It's a drama. It's like a really good Telenovela... on steroids (stimpacks?) and in the future. What makes drama good? High stakes. EVERY faction is trying to outmaneuver ever other faction to gain an advantage. If they don't get that advantage, they'll probably die. Blizzard has no problem killing off a major character to show how lethal making a mistake on this scale is. Fenix, Tassadar, Stukov? All major characters, all killed off. It made the game much better rather than worse.

Imagine an all powerful Xel'Naga force which makes all the players join forces and be friends! (yippie!) It would ruin the best dynamics in the game.

Furthermore, the intensity of this all out, no holds barred, race for survival both alienates us to and endears us to the characters. It makes them believable. Tassadar's sacrifice, Kerrigan killing old friends to take control or prevent her own death. The characters do wonderful, horrible, or extraordinary things for survival. They even reflect on what they've done. Tassadar reconsidered following the Conclave's orders to destroy infested terran worlds. Kerrigan said, "For the first time since my transformation, I grow weary of the slaughter". These characters have depth. If the Xel'Naga don't have to do the nitty gritty work, if the player doesn't see and experience them suffering in some way, they won't indentify with them and the overall game will suffer. Kerrigan is the "Queen B*tch of the Universe". Yeah, because she earned it. If the Xel'Naga want to take the title from her, I want to see them earn in with the same blood sweat and tears that she did. I want to see them be worthy of it.

2. The Xel'Naga could logically be a balanced race. According to the starcraft book, the Xel'Naga were all but wiped out by the Zerg (I believe it says the vast majority were destroyed). If suddenly, there incredibly powerful, or if Blizzard back tracks on that, I will be outraged. It's part of the mythos of the game and I think it's stupid to go back and say "No, actually, the Xel'Naga were scheming from the start and they wanted the Zerg to believe they have wiped them out." Lame. Stupid. Stop. That doesn't even make sense. What would make sense? The Xel'Naga were actually all but obliterated and the surviving members hid in deep space licking their wounds. All powerful? Hardly. The (at that point primitive) Zerg kicks their butts. Even the Protoss (who were practically in a relative stone age compared to now) managed to kill hundreds of them before they left Auir.

A Koprulu superpower? I think not. That would (again) be totally lame.

But how, you may ask, could they be introduced to the game? Easy. We actually know, or can infer, quite a bit about them. Let me explain.

First to settle a dispute I saw elsewhere, the Xel'Naga are not beings of energy. They were infested as well after the Zerg attack them and were used to create overlords (Note: while I remember this distinctly, I can't seem to find a source to verify this. It is, however, I am sure in the starcraft 1 book, in the section about the zerg. It's how the zerg find out about the protoss). Anyway, if they're beings of pure energy, they don't have DNA and can't be assimilated. Come up with another explanation if you want, but it won't be parsimonious.

Ok, so they're biological. Next question. What kind of species are they? An interstellar nomadic species. It says so in the book. They are also very interested in Psionics and created the Khaydarin Crystals, so they're probably psionic as well. And they altered both the Protoss and the Zerg as well as other unnamed races throughout the galaxy.

Ok, so we have a nomadic biologically based, very intelligent, probably psionically active race, which has an extreme knowledge of physics and biology. Oh and they're also almost extinct. And they're going to be in StarCraft 2.

3. If they can be playable and balanced and it makes sense for us to see them. This is how I would propose that they act like. Please disagree if you want. This is where I get a little creative with everything.

4th New Distinct (and Balanced :) ) race, The Xel'Naga.
First difference: tech tree.

Terran can build everywhere, Protoss are limited to the psi field, Zerg are limited to the Creep. I propose a different base set up for the Xel'Naga.

1st: Their base is one of their nomadic ships, called Worldships in the starcraft book. These function as their bases. They're mobile (but slow as hell). And new "structures" are actually build as individually targetable additions to the worldship. It has enough slots to build one of every type of structure in the tech tree, but only one. To build additional copies of structures or to expand the worldship must "split the core" and form a second worldship (kind of like mitotic division) and the second worldship starts from scratch. While splitting the core, all research and production in the worldship (i.e. the base) will stop. Defensive structures are also in the tech tree, but remember only one of each unless you give up some other building on that particular worldship.

2. Mining is completely different. Instead of having a main, stationary base, the worldship can move. Therefore, I would propose that the Xel'Naga have satellite mining structures which "warp" the resources back to the worldship. These of course would be incredibly weak (low HP and no possible defensive structures unless the worldship was actually floating above it. All you have to defend it is a possible worldship and units. Allows for quick but vulnerable expansions. Also I would imagine Xel'Naga units being really expensive, but really powerful.

3. Wormholes. Instead of "Warping in" units like the Protoss, the Xel'Naga could have a series of connected wormholes, which would allow for rapid deployment of forces anywhere across the map. Kinda like a Nydus Canal, only I foresee one major difference, making it more balanced. Namely: anyone can use those wormholes, friend or foe. The Xel'Naga have the ablilty to shut down a wormhole, but it takes 2-5 seconds and possibly strands some Xel'Naga units away from the main forces and allows them to be slaughtered. OR if the player isn't paying attention/ doesn't act in time, a major enemy offensive could slip through the worm hole and right into your undefended main base (worldship). Not pleasant and it will keep both of the player on their toes. Unprecedented mobility? Yes, but with a huge potential cost.

4. Tier Structure. Very different. I imagine the Xel'Naga with 2 major types of units. 1st. Cheap, expendable failed experiments. They screwed up the Protoss and the Zerg, and there are mentions of other failed experiments, why not let them join the fray? These units would be cheap and massible (a zergish trait) but pretty easy to kill. Other option would be that the player using the Xel'Naga would be able to chose from a list of attributes and essentially create new units from scratch with variable costs depending on the hp/damage caused. An other choice would be that basic units could be changed while in the game. Or leveled up different tech trees. Kinda like the hydralisk/lurker or mutalisk/guardian/devourer only with much more options. Imagine a zergling that gets the ability to attack air. That sort of thing. This shows their mastery of biology. I think these should be mostly ground based

2nd tier: the Xel'Naga themselves. Very few left, but incredibly powerful. Few if any "medium" units. This is where I'd like to see a really powerful "mothership" like unit. Xel'Naga have wormholes, why not black holes? These units are really powerful, but incredibly expensive and take a long time to make (and if you're making something, you can't created a new base per the splitting the core rule). I think these units should be mostly air based.

Together, they make a potent combination (much like the zerg-protoss hybrid itself). But they require significant finesse to use well. A swarm of biologically crazy units with powerful air units pummeling obstacles to the ground unit flood; it seems unstoppable Problem? Catch them off balance and they can be wiped in short order and then just steal their wormhole and destory the base. :)

And as for the hybrids themselves. This would be my suggestion. Powerful? Yes. But how many of them could there really if they were just created. 1,000? 10,000? For the entire sector? Drops in the pond. There are MILLIONS of Zerglings. I would have them be almost the generals of the Xel'Naga ground forces. They would be incredibly expensive, and the Xel'Naga would hate losing any one of them (their perfect children remember?). They would be really powerful, like archons only organic, but with a lot of psionic powers. That shows their protoss self. Their zerg half? I was thinking an ability like "global blink" where their purity of essence let's them reach out to each other and one can home in on another and blink to wherever they are on the map. It would have a long cool down rate but say there's an army in trouble. There's one hybrid as general and it's doing some pretty bad-@$$ damage. Suddenly there are two. Better kill them both quick because in a moment there will be four. Then eight. Then you die. That'd just be pretty awesome.


So...... let me know what you think please :) And if you're an undercover blizzard employee, please put this in the game it would be so much better than just some crazy other force like the burning legion. Which P.S. sucked. Don't do that to starcraft 2. It has so much potential. And don't bring Tassadar or Fenix back. Yes they were awesome, but if you pull any more of that Medvih crap I'm not gonna buy another game from you. <---sike I totally would. I love you guys.

[IO]

I really don't think the Xel would be reintroduced as an npc faction or a super race as blizzard did with wc3 and forced al three races to ally together and stand and fight would bethe largest piece of plot recycling ever and thus blizzard most likely won't do it. However you raise some good points and i really think you should repost it on the blizzard official forum as it might help more there than here.

[JudicatorPrime]

Sadly, it doesn't make sense to me... considering you started it off with WC3 sucked. It's all purely based on your underlying presumption that Blizzard will do it incredible injustice. They made the universe, im sure they know where its going and how to get there. Not so much Blizzard, but you seem to have the whole storyline plotted out in your head or something, assuming that the Xel' Naga will do this and that, have not earned this and that... where is that coming from? Kerrigan didn't go through much, she's your typical hardened-killer-turned-intergalactic-tyrant... You assume too that the Xel' Naga were all powerful, yet all we know is that they were scientists and an experiment got out of hand. They didn't leave around giant space ships and guns they left temples and artifacts. To me that doesn't suggest a space-faring empire bent on anything else other than to fix their mistake. Not to mention, a Xel' Naga infested probably won't be anything like Zergling...

HOWEVER, I do like your idea of them as a race... it'd be IMBA multiplayer but it'd still be fun. The Worldship sounds awesome, its like in... That game.. forgot what it was called, you make cities and only few buildings are disconnected from the cities.. in that game they ended up rather large. And for a game like SC, where there are many units, the scaling if mostly quite off... so I wonder how this would look in-game, WITHOUT making it seem less overwhelming than it is. For their ability of wormholes vs. warp-ins... it seems like a downgrade if any race can use it... it'd be nice if the Xel' Naga can navigate it properly where as other races cant, so if they send in a mass of units they're guaranteed that most of their units will make it but not all. Then again, no other races have experience in traveling instant worm holes, so they could sustain damages. I guess its somewhat better than the warp-in because they can go back.. but still... it would suck having the enemy trace you back to your Worldship in full force. As for units... I think they could pass with Zerg-ish kind of units, except not identical, minor differences... afterall they're scientists, or perhaps making zerglings became taboo after they slaughtered most of their race? It'd be better in my opinion, if experiments were first tier, Hybrids were second or third tier, and Xel'Naga themselves third tier. I don't think they'd even go themselves personally, consideing they're race almsot died (unless they repopulated) and they must be incredibly powerful psionic beings... Aside from being psionic beings there should be a variation that shows of their technology, something with guns that can act as their siege tank.

Anyway... It's odd how Raynor questions the artifact and not the fact that the Xe' Naga... either he's not interested or he's had a previous experience with or conercning them? Did that happen in SC or BW?

[burkid]

@ string_me_along, i just checked the SC1 manual, overlords were from the behemoth-flyers called Gargantis Proximae, and nothing about the Xel'Naga is mentioned in the overlord description.

And its possible that only the Xel'Naga that came to koprulu were nearly wiped out, that doesnt mean their entire race. they could have been a large-scale science team that was to experiment with the races here. There could have been Xel' Naga fleets in other sectors, or even other galaxys. and the Xel'Naga got hurt so bad by the zerg because the overmind suprised them. he shut the psionic link with them, which got them confused, then assaulted. Suprise is a powerful ally.

And there is no 'may' be psionically active, the must be psionically active, or else how would they hold a link with the overmind?

[xonezioizenox]

just saw the video campaign, did zeratul just say the xel naga has return? :o

[ShoGun]

Yes, he certainly did. He also mentioned that the "artifacts" are the key to "the end of all things". Possibly could be a jumpstart necessary to awaken the hybrids.

[i2new@aol.com]

AAAh hell. this is going to be soo bad-a**. The hybrids are ganna be so cool to fight, if we are able to fight them. also zeratul was hurt in the clip. how did that happen? ALSO how did he get on the ship??

[Cerebrate]

This was expected to be main plot of SC2 because of Brood war special mission.

Thing that bothers bit that I didn't expect Xel Naga to be cabable of being 'bad' guys...they were mostly researcher race that got ass kicked by young protoss with low level tech. And Zerg owned them after with simple pre-historic units.

I guess they could wan't revenge or erase all life forms on universe because result of failed experiments.

But they will fail anyway... you know why?

Because Kerrigan befriends them just to be able to back-stab them ( Gotta love Kerrigan lol? )

[Sagathox]

@ string_me_along, i just checked the SC1 manual, overlords were from the behemoth-flyers called Gargantis Proximae, and nothing about the Xel'Naga is mentioned in the overlord description.

And its possible that only the Xel'Naga that came to koprulu were nearly wiped out, that doesnt mean their entire race. they could have been a large-scale science team that was to experiment with the races here. There could have been Xel' Naga fleets in other sectors, or even other galaxys. and the Xel'Naga got hurt so bad by the zerg because the overmind suprised them. he shut the psionic link with them, which got them confused, then assaulted. Suprise is a powerful ally.

And there is no 'may' be psionically active, the must be psionically active, or else how would they hold a link with the overmind?


This is exactly what i think, they were just a big group of scientists, the universe is a little big i think so that team could have been a little piece of a gigantic civilization.

Id love to see the xel´naga as a playable race, and even the hybrids too, i know blizzard has the best team, and if they want they could make them well balanced, and at the same time giving starcraft 2 a super refresh, just my opinion i know all those purist dont want new races ´cuz that´s not the game they played 10 years ago, come on! starcraft 2 is a new game, let them have lots of new things they had 10 years to think about all the possibilities and problems, just work it out!.

[string_me_along]

@ string_me_along, i just checked the SC1 manual, overlords were from the behemoth-flyers called Gargantis Proximae, and nothing about the Xel'Naga is mentioned in the overlord description.

hmmm... I was sure about that, damn. Ok. When I finally get home to my starcraft books, I'll figure out how I went wrong with that. And while I do agree that there could be other fleets of Xel'Naga in other sectors or from other galaxies (they were, I believe, not from the Milky Way), it was mentioned that the larger bulk of the species was destroyed by the zerg. As per wikipedia "A surprise attack was launched against the Xel'Naga, wiping out most of the race's Worldships and the greater whole of the Xel'Naga in the first waves." Surprise may be a powerful ally, true. But realizing you were surprised doesn't save you from extintion. I just think that revising what we currently know about the Xel'Naga would be somewhat irritating especially when there are other ways of making an interesting story line out of it.

[burkid]

you do know that you shouldnt rely on wikipedia, as anyone can change the information on there.

and blizz can just say it wasnt 'majority of the race' but 'majority of the race in this sector'

[i2new@aol.com]

WEll your half wrong the protoss never attacked them.

but they could be a bit made at the races for trying to end there lives.

[string_me_along]

@ JudicatorPrime.

I really didn't like WC3, it's my own personal opinion, yes, but I feel that the plot of the story was, in fact, a terrible injustice to the Warcraft universe.

Concerning me plotting it out? Yup. Always :). But seriously, who isn't trying to take over the koprulu sector? This is war! The underlying assumption that they would be massively overpowered as a race came from the assumption that since there are three races in starcraft 2, the Xel'Naga would not be playable and the fear that they would do something like the burning legion (another ancient race in a different blizzard universe) to the Xel'Naga, which I felt would be lame. Maybe I did jump the gun a bit on that.

As for Kerrigan? Man, her life sucks. She was forced to kill and horrible other things as a ghost. Then she finally finds someone outside the Confederacy who "understands" her, but who actually sells her out. Then she gets infested and is under the control of the overmind. Then when it dies, she picks up the peices of the swarm and conquers the koprulu sector by deception, treachery, and finally raw strength. I mean, that takes up a lot of even the other races missions in the original SC and brood war campaigns and all of the zerg campaign in brood war. She gets quite a lot of face time.

I'm glad you like the playable race idea. As per the wormholes, it could be used in a lot of ways (again, i think they would be a finesse race), but imagine if only part of the enemy forces got through, only to be slaughtered themselves by the Xel'Naga. Timing is everything in starcraft and I think it would be a really good tactic to play with.

Also I wasn't thinking actual zerglings, but I agree that the subspecies they control need to be sufficiently different so that they're unique.

I really like your idea of showing their technology as well, but I would leave that for maybe their ships, say perhaps an actual mothership with blackhole or a giant freaking laser cannon. Or maybe something close to the energy used by the temple in brood war?

As for Raynor? Not that I know of, but maybe in some StarCraft book? (I haven't read any of those). But Zertul did in the Dark Origin Campaign. Maybe Raynor doesn't ask about the Xel'Naga because he has no idea who they are? And he clearly knows about the artifacts so maybe that just interests him more? Idle speculation: In short, I have no idea.

[ShoGun]

I like some of the ideas string, mainly the hybrids who can warp to each other . . . makes perfect sense. But I highly doubt the Xel'Naga will have a combat role in the story, and will want to dominate the sector, it’s just not in their nature from all that we have read about them. Perhaps more light on the Xel'Naga will be shed in the StarCraft 2 storyline, but I believe their hybrids will play a bigger role then themselves and the Xel'Naga will be left mostly still a mystery. I can't wait to learn more.

[string_me_along]

@ Burkid.

True, wikipedia is not something that I would use as a source in a paper or for something I would send to my boss. But I have found it (mostly) reliable for general purposes. Also, my manuals for SC and BW happen to be four hours away from where I live. So, teh interwebbbs is where the information lives for me... for now.

Also while blizz can just say, "nope, just this part of the race" or "just this engineering group" or really whatever they want, it really gets irritating when they just revise history. What written is written. They published it. Maybe there's also another race of protess, not light, not dark, but... orange protoss... yeah... from some other place that we just didn't happen to mention before. Lame. The story could go so many place as it is, it doesn't need blizz changing the facts to make it interesting. I personally just think they should go with what they have. They're really good story writers... excepting WC3.

Also: side note. I really like the idea of the Xel'Naga having been almost wiped out and spend a while licking there would and coming back unexpectedly. Makes them a little vulnerable. It gives them a reason to hold a grudge. Makes them more interesting in general. I mean what would their relationship be vis-a-vis the zerg? Former Bully? Child? The possiblities are endless. It could be so awesome.

[burkid]

well you said it yourself, not much is known about the Xel, and blizzard can act on that. in the lore for SC1, all we knew is the Xel were almost wiped out, but we only knew about the Xel in Koprulu. its quite easy to say 'all known xel were almost wiped out, and now they are back with more of their race and pissed.'

[JudicatorPrime]

I hope they in no way resemble the Naga in WC... Although Snake-ish serpeant things are almost idolic when referring to ancient races... but damn that would suck...

[Sagathox]

WEll your half wrong the protoss never attacked them.

but they could be a bit made at the races for trying to end there lives.


No he isnt protoss did attack the xel´naga when they where about to leave the protoss because of the "failed experiment" thing, protoss didnt like that very much so they destroyed some of the xel´naga fleet

and i really hope they come back so we have to fight them, and fight as them also, oh and there´s another topic like this so they should be merged.

[string_me_along]

@ Burkid
Too true, we don't know that much about them. But from the third person omniscient view, we see that most of them died. It wasn't like WarCraft where they have a first person story from Medivh's mother, thus making her viewpoint narrow and she could have missed things like that (Actually much like I miss her hehehe). But this is an omniscient view point, it's not like it's wrong or it messed up, it has to be revised to change it and that just smacks of bad story telling. They way they have it works, it may even work really well. Hell they're the masters of biology, maybe they just cloned themselves a lot? I don't know, but to have only a fraction of them having actually died, to me, sounds like poor imagination, and poor story telling. It's not blizz worthy.

[burkid]

i never said a fraction of them died. that could of been half their race in koprulu. im just saying its not all of their race.

[string_me_along]

a fraction could really be any fraction. It could be 1/2. It could be 1/4. It could be 3/4. It could be 1/193434370830480380.

If they're back, apparently they didn't all die. But it would be my personal preference that what was left of them wasn't overpowering. Maybe a few of them survived. Maybe only 1 out of 1000 of them survived, but have been trying to rebuild for however long it's been since the battle of Zerus. I think it works for a better dynamic, doesn't make them some invincible race (a la the Burning Legion), and you also don't have to revise the book. Win-Win in my opinion.

[burkid]

i meant that as in a small fraction.

1 out of every 1k seems a bit extreme, maybe 1 out of every 10 or 20.
and do we know how long ago the whole zerg vs xel was?

[string_me_along]

But I highly doubt the Xel'Naga will have a combat role in the story, and will want to dominate the sector, it’s just not in their nature from all that we have read about them. Perhaps more light on the Xel'Naga will be shed in the StarCraft 2 storyline, but I believe their hybrids will play a bigger role then themselves and the Xel'Naga will be left mostly still a mystery. I can't wait to learn more.


Not necessarily in their nature, yeah that's probably true. But it seems that the Koprulu sectors is the sort of jar of candy that everyone is try to get their hands into. I mean even the UED sent out an expeditionary force from Earth which is God only knows how far away. I hope they're getting involved. Them and the hybrids. They've flown away and they've been slaughtered. I want to see them fight back. It would just be cool.

[string_me_along]

1 out of every 1k seems a bit extreme, maybe 1 out of every 10 or 20.
and do we know how long ago the whole zerg vs xel was?


Something like 95% of the Protoss were killed during the Zerg rampage on Auir. Why not the same with the Xel'Naga? It really could have been at any time. The only definitive we really have time wise with these races is the 1,000 year Aeon of Strife which happened after the Xel'Naga left the Protoss on Auir. So... sometime more than 1,000 years. And given we know absolutely nothing of Xel'Naga life spans or breeding cycles (or cloning technology)... they could, in theory, be at any number of individuals.

That said, I think there should only be a few left. Doesn't make sense for the greater mass of them to be exterminated and then they come back all up to snuff. At least not from a story telling point of view.

[burkid]

i think it was 70 percent at auir, but that doesnt include the DT population on Shakuras.

if 1 out of every 1000 survived, thats .1% of the population left.
if 1 out of every 10 survived thats 10% of the population left. loss of 90% of a population seems extreme, and thats 100 time more survivors than you suggested.

[IO]

AAAh hell. this is going to be soo bad-a**. The hybrids are ganna be so cool to fight, if we are able to fight them. also zeratul was hurt in the clip. how did that happen? ALSO how did he get on the ship??


Remember the cinematic trailer and the part with zeratul fight the zerg/kerrigan thing i think that may answer the question of how zeratul was hurt and i remember hearing a warp in sound just before zeratul appeared so i think he warped in with the same system as the buildings.

[string_me_along]

as for the actual numbers involved with the attack on the Xel'Naga at Zerus you're probably right. 1 out of 1000 surviving is a bit much. I guess I identified them a bit with the 40k Eldar, what with their immense power, their worldships, and their near complete annihilation. I imagined them to be quite numerous and now very few. But we really don't know how many of them there were, just that the greater bulk of them were killed at Zerus. If they're still around, either they have really long life spans or there were enough of them to keep em procreatin'. I just can't really see them just shrugging of the loss of the major part of their species. More likely is that there isn't too many of them.


Also, as per your sig, I think that carriers are back in the game at least. (woot!)

[burkid]

i know. people tell me that a lot. i decided to keep it in in spite of them. and because the old, 2-D design of the carrier is gone, while the new, larger gold tempest, 3-D carrier is in. so its still in the sig.

[string_me_along]

Ah... I see. I've seen the tempests when they existed, but I don't think I've seen what the new carrier looks like. The tempest look is pretty cool. I'm just not a huge fan of the shurieken. Meh.

[burkid]

the carrier has the exact same model, but is larger and gold. with real interceptors, rather than shurikens.

[string_me_along]

Thing that bothers bit that I didn't expect Xel Naga to be cabable of being 'bad' guys...they were mostly researcher race that got ass kicked by young protoss with low level tech. And Zerg owned them after with simple pre-historic units.

I guess they could wan't revenge or erase all life forms on universe because result of failed experiments.

But they will fail anyway... you know why?

Because Kerrigan befriends them just to be able to back-stab them ( Gotta love Kerrigan lol? )



I can totally see them being evil I mean... they did create the zerg. hahaha! And Kerrigan is the best ever. I don't know if even the ancient Xel'Naga can take her down. She is after all the "Queen ***** of the Universe". Zerg vs. Xel'Naga 1-0. And that was before they had Kerrigan. She will eat (ahem consume them) for breakfast. Then eat their children.

[ShoGun]

I don't think revenge is on the agenda for the Xel'Naga, they are much too sophisticated and comprehensive of things to let emotions like revenge stir them up. Returning for revenge is over-played, and it certainly doesn't fit the Xel'Naga attitude. They are scientists; cold, calculative, observers. All of these personalities are reflected on Duran, who obviously represents the Xel'Naga. I think they are more concerned with unveiling their grandest of experiments; it would not matter to them if they were to die trying, as long as their creation to end all creations is unleashed, then their purpose has been fulfilled. To me, it fits the attitude of the Xel'Naga well, and I hope their enigmatic ways is still kept for StarCraft 2, and their personality is not made a repeat of the other races.

[burkid]

they are cold, calculative observers whose experiments have gotten out of hand. the same experiments that put a huge dent in their population. the same experiments that duran perfected. and with the hybrids, their old experiments that caused such harm must be put down, before they interupt the Xel'Naga's Grand Design and because they are no longer needed. It might not be revenge, but it is hostile.

[GrahamTastic]

But they will fail anyway... you know why?

Because Kerrigan befriends them just to be able to back-stab them ( Gotta love Kerrigan lol? )

LOL! Yeah, that's Kerrigan all right. I bet she will be involved with them somehow. I wonder how the Xel'Naga will treat her though? Are Infested Terrans considered Zerg by the Xel'Naga, or are they considered unworthy half-zergs?

[string_me_along]

I think that the story line brought in from Blizzcon might be useful here. Zertul tells Raynor that the Xel'Naga are coming and that the (I'm presuming Xel'Naga) artifacts hold the key to the end all things. The END of all things... What are the Xel'Naga gonna do? Coldly observe them out of existence? I think not.

Maybe they will use something like the Giant Powerful Death Temple they built on Shakuras. A race that builds that is not so peaceful.

Personally, I hope that when the hybrids do awaken, they kill the rest of the Xel'Naga and tell them, "THIS IS WHAT YOU GET FOR PLAYING GOD!!!!!). Much like the protoss and zerg did. You would think that getting attacked by one creation and almost destroyed by another would be enough to kick the habit of messing with other species. The Xel'Naga clearly have a poor learning curve.

[JudicatorPrime]

Ancient race that makes a fail safe to end all life in the galaxy incase something goes horribly wrong. That's not only a plot twisted, but a plot stolen! The Xel' Naga probably know that Kerrigan will own all the races in the galaxy, and once she does Earth and company can't win... so they'll blow them up while they can.

[string_me_along]

I hope not. Possible, yes. I prefer burkid's idea of them not needing the protoss or zerg now and therefore just trying to wipe them out (what scientist wants you to see all the experiments he completely botched instead of their perfect creation?) Also it would kind of just be the end to Dr. Strangelove. But that was a comedy. This is drama. I think that would not work well for SC2.

[ShoGun]

Its not that they don't need the Zerg or Protoss, they never needed them in the first place, its that they desire to make a better creation. I think they have been watching over the Zerg with awe for quite sometime, and after much observation they came up with the idea to merge the Protoss' purity of form, with the Zerg's purity of essence to create an even more powerful life form, possibly since the Overmind failed to do so itself. Containment is not an issue to them; they would rather see their creations flourish over other life, as it shows they are more perfect. Their goal has always been to seed the most perfect life form, and I don't think that has changed . . . despite what losses they may have suffered . . . but that was what, hundreds of thousands of years ago? The only time they would get violent, is to protect their unborn creation, otherwise it wouldn’t be necessary for them. Thoughts like revenge, domination, and containment are just animalistic desires that do not interest beings as overseeing as the Xel’Naga . . . what is important, is the birth of their protoss/zerg hybrids. I think the Xel'Naga are a lot more comprehensive then some are giving credit for. Why would they care about the sanctity of their own people if they already desire to bring about "the end of all things"? If you read on all they have done, and look at what seems to be happening now, its pretty clear of what kind of mind-frame they are living in . . . much like gods who desire to direct fate. I think its what makes the Xel’Naga one of the most interesting races in the StarCraft universe.

My biggest curiosity is what will they look like.

[GuiMontag]

floating brains :P

[Tym29]

Well they better not be some copout “energy” being. That is used in every scifi story line since the 50’s and is truly played out.
It would be ironic to find out they are some inorganic being that destroyed their creators because they weren’t perfect before creating the failed Protoss and Zerg projects. The childlike “perfection” of computer logic could definitely account for their massive miss judgment of the capabilities of their two (maybe three) race creations as well as the long life span necessary to drastically mess with the evolutionary development of multiple species.
Humans represent the Xel’Naga’s third semi successful experiment with a “purity of mind” since they aren’t psionic creatures like their previous creations. It was the psionic link of the over mind that lead to near extinction by the Zerg and their close proximity that lead to the problems with the Protoss. So they decided to create a race without psionic capabilities that through individual thought exhibited “purity of mind”. Learning from past mistakes they decided to only guide the races evolution through extreme anonymity. They couldn’t attack a creator they don’t even know exists.

[JudicatorPrime]

Just wondering... where did you get the information of the "Purity of Mind" stuff...

[Tym29]

Pulled that one right outta my ass. Pretty good though, :thumbup: huh?

[GuiMontag]

actually the terrans are on the verge of being a powerful psionic race. also terrans actually genetically altered themselves so the Xel didnt have to :P

the Xel would have to be absolutely nuts to have created terrans with purity of mind, watch the first couple of terran movies in sc1 to know what i mean :P

[Tym29]

I'd rather you just tell me what you mean ;) its quicker that way.

[ShoGun]

They are dumb as rocks Tym29, maybe dumber. LOL

[Tym29]

Yeah, so it all fits with the theme I think. The "Purity of Form" wasn't all that great looking, the "Purity of Essence" was just destruction, so who'd have thought a "Purity of Mind" experiment would turn out any different than it did?

[string_me_along]

2 unwanted cents:

I think the Purity of Mind overlaps the Purity of Essence in this way: The Xel'Naga decided the protoss lacked Purity of Essence when they closed their psionic (i.e. Psychic) link with each other. The Zerg have Purity of Essence because the overmind controlled all of their minds. So... did you mean something else by purity of mind? How exactly are they mentally pure in your estimation?

[Tym29]

Well maybe I’m totally off my can here but I took the purity of essence to mean the passionate single/ simple mindedness of the Zerg. Where as the Terran are “pure” because they aren’t connected and contaminating one another through some psionic link. They have pure “freewill” freedom of choice, individuality. Though we take freewill for granted it might be quite an accomplishment for a group of beings that have always been psionicly linked with some other creatures to survive. Sharing a linked existence could also have its drawbacks. Too uniform a society would be stable, but weak. Homogony builds resilience.

[ShoGun]

To have purity of mind would be like able to control your thoughts and have pure strength of reason and comprehension . . . terrans in starcraft and even us humans in real life are far from that . . . we cannot control our thoughts, but we have the power to reason with our thoughts if we so choose, but on a bare minimum level.

If anything in starcraft that has purity of mind, it is the xel'naga.

[JudicatorPrime]

I really hope the Xel' Naga don't make as strong an appearance like the Naga in WC3 and Seraphim in SC do. For god sakes Blizzard, retain SOME alure. Don't make the same mistake you did with WoW and permanently f**** up the universe.