Marine

[Inside Sin]

These are some shots i took of the StarCraft 2 Trailer. Feel free to use them however you like. :)

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5223/starcraftiidf3.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7057/starcraftiiheadsetap6.jpg

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3408/starcraftiimarinevb9.jpg

[[LightMare]]

I heard some speculation about marines having the ability to launch grenades. but say, you can research "Smoke Grenades". The function is that of a defiler, but mechanized. You can chose the grenade type, be it explosive or smoke. The marines would only have one grenade each, so in a group of 10, 2 can launch smoke grenades in a zerg infantry group, and kill them quickly with the other explosive grenades, or their guns. And a possible side effect with the smoke grenade, perhaps it can deal damage to enemies inside the smoky area. :army:

[hillzagold]

...what? smoke grenades would only be used for when you're running away

[FlyingTiger]

hmmm good idea, but wouldn't it be better if it was the siege tank's ability instead? I mean there are so many marines you can make compared to tanks. This way it'll limit the smoke grenades a bit.

@Hillzagold:
I think he's thinking about more of a Dark Swarm kind of smoke grenade.

[[LightMare]]

i think marines should be able to use them only. because, detectors would be able to see through the smoke. smoke grenades would be ideal against siege tanks in siege more. but, with a missle turret/science vessel, or overlord or observer/cannon or sunken colony, enemy units would be able to see through the smoke, and kill them marines.
besides, the smoke grenade should only last for 12 seconds tops.

[generalrievous]

Or you could make it where marines throw smokes than it has an aoe which you can target your tanks or whatever else with to give them added defense against ranged weapons I must admit I got the idea from dow tho lool :P

[zeratul11]

im think the explosive grenades will be more usefull to easily kill enemies.

a combination of both grenades would be deadly too.

check out my artwork contest

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/index.php?topic=733.0

nobody wants to join? its for real. and i got 3k to be given away.

[Gold]

tychus armour has the same shiny quality as a race car, anyone else notcie how fuild and cool it looks?

[paragon]

How about flashbangs. temporarily blind units in some area and decrease attack and movement speed.
These would have to cost a lot of energy or else they would be imbalanced. But it's weird that they don't want to take advantage of technology that we already have.

[shirija]

Smoke grenades or swarms as you compared them would be harmful to the marines themselves wouldn't it? Then that type of grenades probably would look better on firebats, after all they have easy lighting :)

As far as damage over time... since marines are so easy to build, it's going to be even more imba than spider mines unless there's an easy way to disarm them.

[paragon]

Smoke grenades don't damage anything. They just make smoke. and dont need to be lit...

[[LightMare]]

yes smoke grenades incinerate at an extremely high temperature. hence the smoke.

[paragon]

yes but that isn't in a large area.

[[LightMare]]

it doesn't have to be. you can have multiple marines fire smoke grenades to cover a large area, then wipe out the enemies within.

[paragon]

no i mean the heat doesn't travel far.

[Remy]

The flash bang idea reminds me how blind sucked in SC. I wish blindness worked differently, having surrounding units provide vision completely defeats the purpose.

They should keep all the original effects of blindness from SC1(sight range and detection loss), but also make blind units have an attack range of 1. This shouldn't be permanent though, but it will still make blinding more useful.

Another idea is to make blind units miss like hell, sort of like blind in RPGs I guess. But I dislike having % chance elements in SC. Even considering impact on gameplay balance, attack range reduction would be a far better idea than % miss.

[SirBaron]

The flash bang idea reminds me how blind sucked in SC. I wish blindness worked differently, having surrounding units provide vision completely defeats the purpose.

They should keep all the original effects of blindness from SC1(sight range and detection loss), but also make blind units have an attack range of 1. This shouldn't be permanent though, but it will still make blinding more useful.

Another idea is to make blind units miss like hell, sort of like blind in RPGs I guess. But I dislike having % chance elements in SC. Even considering impact on gameplay balance, attack range reduction would be a far better idea than % miss.

Blind was okay vs Detectors. But i agree fully with your suggestion. Having a severe range penalty when blinded is better than the % chance, and i believe Marines could still shoot stuff in close range when blinded.

[paragon]

I liked blinding observers because that makes them completely useless.

[FlyingTiger]

Even better with overlords.

[Remy]

I hardly ever even research optic flare.

[paragon]

I haven't played brood wars in years (no BW disc anymore I think it's somewhere at my other house far far away). So I haven't even gotten medics in a while.

[ImaGiNe.]

Kind of drifted off topic there. :P

Anyway, I would like the idea of having the Marines be able to perform new things in the late game making them cheap and useful alternatives.

[Inside Sin]

Yeah, nice pickup. I love the globe mask, sorta thing around his head.. Thats awsome.

[Becka1988]

These are some shots i took of the StarCraft 2 Trailer. Feel free to use them however you like. :)

http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5223/starcraftiidf3.jpg

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7057/starcraftiiheadsetap6.jpg

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3408/starcraftiimarinevb9.jpg


nothing like a man in uniform!!

[paragon]

they are always useful. I had them on mop up duty at the end of the last game I played.

[[LightMare]]

no i mean the heat doesn't travel far.

you wouldn't use smoke grenades to deal damage though. if you are in a tight situation will too many zerglings and not enough marines, a couple of smokers, then wipe them up because they can't see. should they be able to have limited movement? but have armor taken away from the effects of the incinerating smoke?

[[LightMare]]

i'd prefer him in black. a lot more sexy than blue

[paragon]

There is no incinerating smoke. There is just smoke. Yes there are incendiary grenades but those are completely different from smoke grenades.

[[LightMare]]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_grenade yes there is

[Fenix]

I don't think black works with Marines. Blue looks good in the movies, and the red looks awesome in-game

[[LightMare]]

boo hoo =C black is so much more slick though

[Fenix]

And Marines aren't slick. They're big, have large guns, and like blowing things up. Ghosts are slick.

[[LightMare]]

but i hope black is an available color instead of casual green, yellow, purple, blue, red, brown, teal.

[Fenix]

Na. It would give an advantage in Char. I like the colors, but Grey would be nice.

[Inside Sin]

I don't think black would go too good.

[wolfblood]

Black n gold then? hehe like in dwan of war :P

[paragon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke_grenade yes there is

"These double as incendiary grenades"

[paragon]

Wonder why they did away with camouflaged stuff...

[capthavic]

Well they have optic camo for ghosts, wraiths, etc. and marines really wouldn't get enough from old fasioned camo to be worth it.

[[LightMare]]

Black n gold then? hehe like in dwan of war :P

BAAAAAWLLLLLIIIINNNNNNN!!!

[Ych9]

Marines in SC1 were great. They dealt normal damage, could shoot fast, and could hit air targets. They were also very cheap. What they lacked was their HP. But things are going to change.

In Sc2, as just confirmed by Blizzard in his Q/A batch 5.
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc-general&t=199664&p=1&#post199664

The Shield upgrade will be an upgrade that would increase the Marines overall HP.
Now, I am thinking, if they actually increase the Marines HP anywhere close to the Hydralisk, they are going to be very very strong. What the Marines had over the Hydralisk in SC1 was that they were smaller, could stimpack, and dealt normal damage. But they die too fast compared to Hydralisk. If the Marines HP department is improved, I believe the Marines will be the ultimate versatile unit in SC2 for all we know.

1. Decent HP
2. Hits fast
3. Small and deals normal damage
4. Range and Hits Air units
5. Cheap

Of course, I'm just speculating. But from what we know, if the Marines HP are really increased, we can expect that the Medics are probably going to get removed.

What are your thoughts?

[paragon]

The HP will probably be increased to either 50 or 60. The hydralisk is 80. This is not close. The hydralisk will still beat the marine.
Besides, goliaths beat them both.

[Ghost]

Yeah, but do we know if the goliaths are coming back? And i'd rather have 3 marines that 1 hydra.

[Ych9]

The HP will probably be increased to either 50 or 60. The hydralisk is 80. This is not close. The hydralisk will still beat the marine.
Besides, goliaths beat them both.


Either 50-60 will make them considerbly stronger IMO. That extra 1-2 hit really adds up when you have mass marines. Yes, Hydras will most likely be able to defeat the Marines. But remember, Marines deals normal damage while the Hydra deals explosive. That alone makes the Marines a better all around unit. Not to mention, Marines are alot cheaper, and smaller.

[Itsmyship]

HEY! You ripped this off from my link on wether you use marines for late game or not!!! Copyright infringement!!! hehe jk.
Well anyways, I don't see why they'd take out medic. Even with the shield and such, they're still gonna die to upgraded units even if they themselves are upgraded. Medic's here to stay i think...they're just too fantastic a unit to leave, plus, their inclusion or exclusion will really impact how Terran players play.

Plus it's not like the Dominion is stupid enough to be like "Dude, Medics were awesome, we need to make some ourselves!" "Don't be stupid! They were UED!!" "Awww, you're right..."

[paragon]

Plus the Dominion and the UED were fighting on the same side in the very last mission of brood wars.

[ImaGiNe.]

The venerable Marine and Medic combo should not be removed! Despite the upgrade to the Marine's toughness, I still think that there would be a general need for Medic units. We will probably see some limits to the Marines gaining the extra hit points and dawning some new pieces of armor.

Oh and the last brood war mission was just the UED if I do recall correctly.

[Itsmyship]

Nah, Mengsk, UED, and Artanis decided to try to b*tch slap Kerrigan, but then the queen b*tch made all three of them her b*tches, with Mengsk being the uber b*tch if i recall. :)

[Lemonparty]

The Terrans will probably associate to become one happy empire with happy rabbits and pink flowers.

[paragon]

well the UED expeditionary fleet was destroyed on their way back to earth... so they won't be joining anything
and mengsk is a **** so raynor wont be joining him

[TEDurden]

Mengsk will be curbstomped by Tychus Findlay :)

But anyways... Marines were already the most versatile unit, IMO, and shield will only make them better. Also, if they take out Medics i will be incredibly pissed.

[GuiMontag]

the raised hp by sheild is just a counter to the new charge from zealots, they definately won't be as tough as hydralisks.
probably itl raise hp by 10-15

[paragon]

versatile at being killed

[LimaBeanMage]

Even with a small upgrade, coupled with medics they are that much more annoying. 2-3 hits is a long time when you consider in how many marines there are going to be still attacking you.

[Itsmyship]

But at the same time, the other units are getting upgraded as well. Zealots have charge, so Montag said, the extra defense and offense are probably counters for that, and most likely zerg hydras and lings will get upgrades that will even it out between the three races

[paragon]

a baneling will still be able to take out a few clustered marines

[FlyingTiger]

yea I have a feeling the hydras are going to be badass in SC2. Watch they mutate into these insane melee units. Like as good as the Devouring One.

[Meloku]

Marines are very strong in starcraft 1, and I think that if anything, the marines in starcraft 2 will have a hard time following their predecessors act. Watch any of boxer's battles to see what marines are capable of with stim packs and a medic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJNYi3qdSWM
watch this video at 3:14. The marines rip through 3-4X their numbers in hydras and zerglings. This is sheer destruction. I simply hope that the marines in starcraft 2 can deliver. Its one of the first things I will look for at blizzcon ;) :powerup:

[paragon]

the tank blasted a bunch of those zerglings too. plus the terran was defending and not attacking. and we don't know how many upgrades the players had.

[beBoy]

I noticed in several screenies that marines with shield-upgrade also has a knife mounted at the tip of the gun. It would be cool if marines would go melee mode (ie: use the knife and do some hand-to-hand combat) when there are enemies close by (ie: zealots hitting marines) ;)

Anyone else see the knife or is it just me?

[overmind]

??? you need to see an optometrist lol na

hopefully its a different upgrade becouse i hate sheild but i'm impartial to bayonet.

[beBoy]

The HP will probably be increased to either 50 or 60. The hydralisk is 80. This is not close. The hydralisk will still beat the marine.
Besides, goliaths beat them both.


As so far we've yet to see any Medics I started to doubt if they're coming back, so the increase of hp with the shield is more likely a replacement of the needs of Medics (aww no more m&m and free stims).

Btw, Marines have 40hp now.

[capthavic]

haha you don't mind the bayonet but you hate the shield

[FlyingTiger]

It's a bayonet and prolly just goes along with the shield, which is an HP upgrade.

[LimaBeanMage]

I suppose I like the bayonets even less than the shield. A shield seems feasible but since when does a bayonet give a marine more health? We might as well make their U-238 shells give them ten extra hit points.

[ZiiDriX]

^ Yea, For every single bullet ? ^^

[brc9210]

Cant be certain that its the same upgrade though. Who knows maybe it increases their attack damage when an enemy unit is next to them.

[Zeratul]

Would a marine really use it though, makes sense for people in wars nowadays or previously who had a more or less fair fight against the enemy. But against a zealot a bayonet is practically suicide.

[Ghost]

or a zerling, i mean, they where created for battle right? why would a small bayonet pierce their hide.

[Zeratul]

Maybe its just for looks or tradition I guess

[for-glory]

lol well if its the future it would hardly be simple stainless steel. maybe the bayonet is a seperate upgrade that adds something else. dunno if id like that though

[LimaBeanMage]

Even if the knife is an upgraded material or has a special property it still is a small knife compared to the enemies. As previously said, it would be suicide to try and knife fight a single zealot, let alone have to deal with two of their friends afterwards. And tangling with one zergling at a time is down right inefficient and a waste of time, they outnumber marines 2:1; and story wise they probably outnumber them 4:1.

Practicality aside, I'm not sure if it would be a separate upgrade. The shield adding health seems general enough to be acceptable. I would doubt a bayonet would add attack damage. It really wouldn't fit for marines to get more damage against flying units because they have a piece of metal on the end of their rifle; unless it's a magical bayonet. I think it is for looks as well, not necessarily function, but I could be wrong.

[Alukard]

lol well if its the future it would hardly be simple stainless steel. maybe the bayonet is a seperate upgrade that adds something else. dunno if id like that though


maybe its for longer range?

[paragon]

why would a bayonet add more range? that doesn't even kind of make sense

[Hadean]

Its for aesthetics purposes only i'd assume. Though it would definitely be cool to see someone get jukked by a Gaussrifle bayonett. That thing would actually have to be a good foot and a half.

[DKutrovsky]

I really doubt any piece of knife wielded by a marine will do more damage than a freaking Gauss Rifle firing hundreds of bullets at a time...a Granade, or net launcher though,now we're talking.

Like remeber that net gun the predator used in Allien vs Predator, thats something the marines need

[josh]

a bayonet? that's just old school. how bout they'll just have a standard issue combat knife.

[10-Neon]

Maybe the bayonet can be extended at hypersonic speeds (from a few inches to a couple of feet?) with the same electromagnetic accelerator as the main rifle? If that were the case, then it would be justified to give the weapon, as a melee weapon, an attack comparable to one of the Zealot's blades (They do 8 damage, and they are moving them with basic arm motions). It would also make the weapon actually useful in close-combat, because it would do more damage than the bullets... assuming it maintains a decent attack rate.

[brc9210]

And we also have no idea what the bayonet is made of. It could be some new type of metal alloy that has no problem at all breaking through a zealots armor or something along those lines. Also in Alien vs Predator didn't the predators use some spear thingy to kill the aliens.

[CodyFallsForth]

Maybe a second upgrade costing
150 Min 150 Gas Adding +2 to attack?

Think about it, infantry upgrades add +1 to attack for marines.

First upgrade is 100-100
Second is 150-150
Third is 200-200

For 150-150 i think it would be rather nice on a fully upped rine.

If they didn't change it, it would do 11 damage, not to mention stims(hope they are still there) and The shield adding 10 HP.

You got yourself a great, low cost, short build time, versatile unit.

[darktemplar56]

Having a bayonet makes sense to me. It makes a lot more sense than standing and shooting something that's clawing at your face. Maybe there will be a stance setting where you can set your marines to use bayonets if enemys get close.

[Lemonparty]

I totally want to see a Marine vs a Zealot in a melee fight
kgo!

Infact, I made a story about it:
http://i18.tinypic.com/4lryqf5.jpg

[marinepower]

Although the 10-15 hp boost might be good, stim pack itself takes away 10. If medics ARE taken out, then the marines will be right back where they started with 40 hp, with a temporary hp increase. I hope that this wont be the case, cause by the time SC2 comes out, if bliz decides to keep all of the rines current ups, then rines will have range ups, shields, stim, and medic heal, all for just 50 minerals. If you decide to full upgrade them, im almost certain that they will be feared even in the late game scenarios.

[Ych9]

Medics are indeed, confirmed to make a comeback for SC2.
http://sc.gosugamers.net/news/blizzard_reveals_more_at_e3

From that, it is clear that Terran infantry is going to be very powerful in SC2. With the new improved HP of the Marines, introduction to Reapers, and the returning Medics, you will have a deadly force that can do basically anything. This comes back to the point that Marines being the ultimate versatile unit.

Reaper harrass is going to be on a whole new level with Medics been in the game. Jump in the base, take out workers, then jump out to get healed by the Medics. Rinse and repeat. Not to mention, we haven't learned all the units available in the Barracks for the Terran. For Protoss Gateways, what we know so far that should be in are Zealots, Immortals, Stalkers, Soul Hunters, High Templars, and Dark Templars. That is a total of 6 units. If the Rax are to have that, there will be 2 more unannounced infantry units because what we know so far in the rax building are the following 4. (Marines, Reapers, Ghosts, and Medics). With the introduction to Medics, improved Marines, the raiding reapers, and possibility of other unrevealed Terran infantry units, it is clear that Terran infantry is going to be on a whole new level in SC2.

Now, I clearly understand why the Protoss have soo many hard-counters to infantry units. (Soul Hunters, Collossus, Reavers and of course the Psi Storm). Without those hard-counters, the new and improved Terran infantry with its versatility are going to run rampage against all force that dares to stand in their path.

[Meloku]

Maybe the bayonet can be extended at hypersonic speeds


Very interesting idea, maybe not so much as hyper extending, but shooting like a harpoon [terran style!] Each marine would only get to fire the harpoon once, but it would deal enough damage to discourage melee against marines late game. It would be awesome if you had to choose between the shield upgrade, or the harpoon melee upgrade, and both were relatively cheap.

[marinepower]

It is indeed an interesting Idea, but 2+ damage Is way too unbalanced. That is essentially bringing the marine to level 5 attack when fully upgraded, which would cost 250+300 mins/gas =550 mins and gas for just 150, not to mention that this upgrade WILL bring it above level 3/3, making it comparable to the ultralisk, but instead just costing 50 minerals. The harpoon idea might work well, as it can be used in the same micro as a spidermine. 1 Use, no refills, and it will do a large amount of damge, maybe even 40-50.

If microed correctly, 12 harpoon rines can kill 12 non-harpoon rines without taking any damage. For animation purposes, perhaps it should instead be a rocket, as it will look better.

I'm glad these marines are getting so many upgrades. Marine power! Woot! ;D :good:

[marinepower]

The marines equipped with grenades should act a lot like a spider mine in the sense that you only get 1 when you build the unit and it's impossible to resupply the unit to get more. I think the marine should have a grenade that when thrown at a unit will do 30 damage. This way if you have 12 upgraded marines with grenades with 12 without, a skilled player can micro all 12 to kill the other 12 with limited damage.

Even though it's a grenade, there shouldn't be any splash cause even the vulture's main weapon is frags, and those only do 20 damage.

Another type of grenade I was thinking of is a tear/poison cloud grenade that does 1 damage to all units that step inside of it for maybe 10 seconds, 1 damage a second

[capthavic]

I agree that the grenade should be limited use (say just once) but I think that its damage and area of affect should be like a anti infantry spider mine. That way it can turn the tide of battle (especially against massed zerglings) but each unit only gets one shot.

And any smoke/tear/poison grenade should go to the medics, ghosts, etc.

[[LightMare]]

hey paragon, just think. how do you get smoke? fire. they are heating, and become very, very hot

[marinepower]

Perhaps instead of giving poison to the medic, they can give it to the queen. It was it's main weapon before the first patch came out, and it was called "poison" doing 4+(2) damage for every flier attack upgrade.

[PowerkickasS]

errr.....smoke grenade effect like a dark swarm!?
i thought terrans are suppose to fear dark swarm =/

[Hadean]

Lemon party, that was possibly the single most retarded, yet hilarious thing I've seen on these forums. If I had my power-up available good sir, it would be donated to you.

[kehmdaddy]

After reading what Hadean said, I had to check it out. And I couldn't have said it any better myself lmao.

[burkid]

i think (as ive said on some other thread) that the bayonet will probably just increase damage done to units in melee range, because if a zergling was clawing at you, rather than just shooting it, why not stab it at the same time?

[eclipse]

wouldnt this make the marines overpowering?

[I)4rk]

I heard similar comments about the marines, but I personally think that such tings like this are useless unless its vs Lings maybe. Because if they go melee, they would need to have INCREASED damage for it to have any effect. They would need to encompass the melee units at hand e.g. Zerglings with speed. But as of now Lings have speed upgrade as well as movement, so they emcompass the Marines better. So typically I see no use in the bayonet.

[burkid]

im saying it has increased damage, because it hurts it from shooting, while it hurts it with stabs. so like a +2 damage bonus vs units in melee range.

[LJYLJ]

ok, since ppl are talking about stuff like "hyper fast extending the bayonete to a long ninja sword" id give some more food for thought

in reallife i do enjoy shooting (doing "shooting tournaments" etc) and even with a standar 6.5-55mm bullet the recoil is quite hard, and with a 9mm mp-5 u can feel the recoil well, not to mention a 375h&h ump...
my point is, with a gauss rifle fireing at like 900rpm with high caliber the recoil would be insane..so if u put a bayonete at the very end of it and u got a zergling trying to mate with u like a dog from 2feet away the recoil would make the bayonete bounce really ****ing fast and stabing ur target 900times per minute..even tought its a knife it would prolly kill ur foe fast...

so theoreticly it would work....

thats my 2cent anyways

[WuHT]

Bullets will always hurt more than a bayonet stab, and futuristic u-238 upgraded hypersonic spikes are probably as dangerous as the technobable sounds.

Marines should learn to get away from melee situations at all. Let the firebats step in and roast the baddies instead. It's all about roles people!

[AdmiralAckbar]

the bayonet is most likely just for looks a unit that is a ranged attacker shouldnt get a melee attack that is seperate from the ranged one it would upset the balance of the game. I think they might make the animation different when a marine gets into melee but it wont change the damage and rate of fire.

[10-Neon]

I know paragon has been a champion of the Gauss Rifle, and has stated multiple times that the rifle has no recoil: it's basically a rapid-fire coilgun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun), and the projectiles are accelerated magnetically. As for the kickback for a hypersonic bayonet, you do have to remember that the Marine is wearing this big piece of equipment that easily weighs a ton, augmented with all sorts of crazy future-hydraulics. I am pretty sure that the Marine can handle it.

Also, I didn't mean that the bayonet would retract and extend at an incredible rate... ie. not 900 times per minute, I meant that it would extend at a velocity comparable to one of its bullets, except since it has more mass behind it, and continuous force, it would do more damage. In my mind it would probably extend around 60-90 times per minute.

[Hadean]

Marines should learn to get away from melee situations at all.  Let the firebats step in and roast the baddies instead.  It's all about roles people!


Just one problem with that Pancho Villa. THEY SCRAPPED FIREBATS!

Who's gonna take on the melee role? Reapers? Yeah. Those things look like if you shot their engines with a bb-gun they'd explode.

*edit* Zomg. Wait. I just realized something. Flamethrower add-on to the bottom of the gaussrifle. A marine could fulfill both roles. Holy **** i'm a genius.

[Dreadnought]

If youve ever played Warhammer 40k then you would truly appreciate the bayonets =]
Power Bayonets FTW! (Power Bayonet means it has a forcefield around it that eats through any kind of material!)

[ShdwyTemplar]

Scouring through the pictures of the Marines and the Bayonets I have come to one conclusion. The Bayonet only appears in pictures where the Marine has the Shield upgrade. Therefore on that evidence alone I conclude the Bayonet is for aesthetics purposes only and is a nice touch up to the Marines weaponry when they get something that increases there lethality therefore lengthening their lifespan. :-\ Although I admit it would be awesome if it did add a slight damage increase. Although this does bring and interesting question. Does the shield upgrade not only enhance the health of the Marine, but give it damage as well. This quote from Karune explains the mechanics of the shield. It does not explain the mechanics of the upgrade mentioned and how it overall affects the Marine beyond the shield.
"5) Why do marines have shields now?
The shields seen on marines in screenshots and videos are an upgrade that can be purchased through research, increasing the marines' overall hit points." - Karune SC2 Q&A 2

[burkid]

its because its gonna be an upgrade like the shield, and why wouldnt you get health before a knife?

[Heavyarms2050]

After see the up-close picture of the marine from a korean site, i think its best if they redesign the marine to be closely resemble the marine the theatrical trailer introduced in that South Korea event. Anybody agree with me?

[capthavic]

Well if you look at the marine in this pic

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d45/capthavic/4_20_07_07_2_30_08.jpg

you'll see it looks pretty darn close

[Heavyarms2050]

well not really, they got the top half right, but the leg and arms are not the same. Plus the gun doesnt look as badass of the one the in the cgi trailer

[Patuljak]

Stop complaining about everything...

[Nikzad]

Well there is a reason one is an in-game model, and the other part of a theatrical trailer

How are the legs and arms different, and how should they change the gun, in your opinion?

How detailed do you want a unit that's no more than 1/4 inch high on your screen?

[FlyingTiger]

So detailed that one unit will lag the whole game :P

[ShdwyTemplar]

With that in mind Burkid , yes, why would you get a knife before a shield does seem a bit obvious. It does suggest a few things that could be possible.
1.The Bayonet is available to be upgraded/researched only after the Shield is upgraded and another building is in place. As in the Upgrade Tiers of Weapons for all Starcraft Units 1-2-3 (2-3 Req. Science Facility + 1-2 Being Upgraded Previously for Terran Ground for example).
2.The Bayonet Upgrade comes only as an Tier 3 - End Game Upgrade and the Shield can be Upgraded in Tier 1-2. If this is so it would renew the Marines value in End Game as it would give off slightly more damage (Why would you research a blade weapon if you didn't want more damage dealt to enemy? :P), although, the Marine is still the Terran's basic trooper so it would make sense as to keep it in End Game anyway.
3. The Bayonet is just an unusual visual improvement that comes with the shield and is going to purely be aesthetic and poses no value to the a Terran Marine other than showing off that he has a nice, new, shiny, pointy blade along with his new shield.

[Heavyarms2050]

well world in conflict is pretty detailed

[Cerebrate]

Bayonet upgrade makes big sense to me.

Some think its funny to have weak humans using steel knives against warp blades and zerg beasts, however Marines of Starcraft 2 are using powerful suits that greatly enchance their physical power.

Their suits are almost considered as walker vehicels rather than exosceleton armor. We don't know how strong those suits are, it is possible that marines even cannot feel the weight of their gauss rifles because power mechanics of suit will take all weight and leaves marine only to control it with his body.

If that suit is really that strong I guess it can also deliver tremendous physical force and baoynet type of melee blade attached on gun can be quite deadly on melee combat against low armor units.

Also enemies of Terrans are quite melee focused. Zerg, main thread for Terran colonies on Koprulu sector have probably forced to modify marine equipment to better handle melee situations.

[burkid]

@ ShdwyTemplar, i think that you can get the bayonet at the same time as the shield, just a smart player would opt for the shield before the bayonet, so in the pictures where there is no shield, there wouldnt be a bayonet because of choice.

[Wlck742]

Well, as people have already mentioned already, the bayonet won't be of much use agaisnt psi blades and five-foot long claws. I'm thinking it's just for looks, the military still employ swords as ceremonial weapons, ie not to be used in combat but in presentations, formal meetings, etc.

P.S. Yay! I'm a regular!

[WuHT]

-----------

I DO like the new stance that the marines have while shooting. Before they'd stand straight and just point the gun @ a target. Now they have to brace themselves..so thats always nice to see.

[Chris Benoit]

The marine looks fine. Blizzard doesn't need to waste any time redesigning the marine when they have more important things to be doing.

[Itsmyship]

NOTHING is more important than the marine, Blizzard should use all the resources possible to get as close to real as my hand!! Don't work on the zerg!! We need a good marine! :P

[millions]

man is it me or since blizzard decided to change the siege tank's look everyone started becoming more whiny lol....

[Major Willy]

Marine is fine. If you don't like it play a different race.

[Chris Benoit]

MARINES SHOULD HAVE SPECIAL ABILITY, "CROSS FACE", USED ON SMALL DEFENSELESS UNITS. THAT WOULD MAKE THEM BADASS LIKE ME.

[Major Willy]

Marines should get Da Shoop.
They start chargin their lasers and then lift up their visor and Shoop Da Whoop.

[zeratul11]

So detailed that one unit will lag the whole game :P


lmao. hahah. owning. cute avatar you have there here :powerup:

marine looks GOOD.

[kehmdaddy]

I'm absolutely fine with the Marine. They're the staple of Starcraft and the Terran forces, and I think they look damn good. Except maybe for those bayonets... if they don't ever use them, what's the point of having them? And lol at Chris Benoit, "CROSS FACE." That's rich.

[Dreadnought]

Marines are ZOMGWTHBBQTECTONICCHUCKNORRISPAWNAGE
Bayonets make them seem bad@$$
Shields make them look like Riot Police/Swat Teams
Stim Packs = Drugged Up Convicts
HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLE DISLIKE THEIR LOOKS!? (I know stimpacks arent apart of their looks lol)

[AdmiralAckbar]

Marines are fine, this thread is proof that people will complain about anything. The model looks bad, for a first person shooter, but this is an rts where there will be hundreds of marines onscreen at once not to mention theyll be like a centimeter tall.

[Lemmy]

In the wallpaper you can download from the SC2 site marines are using laser rifles. Ive seen nothing releated to this anywhere else so far (except some flashes on the trailer of an hydra getting shot by a laser). Maybe it was an idea that got scraped? Has anyone seen something releated to the laser guns anywhere else?

[zeratul11]

wow. you are correctt. i also see blue laser firing out from their guns (marines at the back). maybe those are just light and use for aiming. the wraith also have blue laser coming out from them, it should be red. i think its a target sight.

[Lemmy]

Well.. since there are not wraiths anymore maybe its safe to assume that the wallpaper and the lasers stuff is something old that was left aside some time ago.

[Wlck742]

It probably got scraped. Lasers seem kind of frail for a marine.

[PancakeChef]

That may have been just an art aesthetic as well. The marines we have seen in actual gameplay videos so far seem to have their classic assualt rifles.

[capthavic]

they aren't firing lasers, the blue glow (and blue smoke) are just to make it look cool. Besides you can see wraiths in the background and we know they aren't (as far as we know) in the game.

[kenshin72]

the only that i dont like is the bayonet that sticking out during the gameplay

WTF this ain't the 15th century this IS THE FUTURE were talking about

[kenshin72]

THIS.....IS.....STARCRAFT

NOT AGE OF THE EMPIRES

[kenshin72]

this is not age of empires

WTF BAYONETS ?!?!?

THIS IS STARCRAFT !!!!!

[Broken_Heart]

I actually don't like the look of bayonets, but it would cool if the marines use them.
What about laser-bayonets instead of knife? :D

[JudicatorPrime]

The only thing I can say for the marine unit model. Lose the red bars on the arms. I know they're their for color distinction but they're useless when they wear huge ass hulking pads on their shoulders to distinguish teams. They have no real design purpose there anyway.

Other than that, make more detailed indent between joints. The armor in the cinematic was really pieced up, it was easy to see different parts of it... The unit model mostly fine except the legs, where it seems just one big block, where in the cinematic it was clearly more pronounced that they were two pieces of armor. Whereas on the unit model, it's just one piece with a line through it to show us. It just doesn't look good to me... You wouldn't notice that with the arms because they're almost always folded holding the weapon but you do with the legs. Looking at it again, its fine... but more detail can't hurt. Well I guess it can blow up your P.C but whatever.

It'd be nice to see a face in the helmet though, but that's just me. Im used to the level of detail in World In Conflict.


THIS.....IS.....STARCRAFT

NOT AGE OF THE EMPIRES


Mmmm... So being in the future that means bayonets are useless and irrelevant. Especially when the prime first tier units of BOTH the other races are close-combat oriented?

[MarineCorp]

The marine looks classic to me and fine
It's good, no point making it detailed or anything, atleast they still look like marines

[JudicatorPrime]

The marine looks classic to me and fine
It's good, no point making it detailed or anything, atleast they still look like marines


To look nice obviously. This isn't the 1990's. You can CONFIGURE graphic settings now!!! *gasp* And since this is a first for SC, atleast first MAJOR change, they should take advantage of the hardware people have.

[Chris Benoit]

Do you realize that picture is a close-up? That you will not be able to zoom in that closely while playing? The marine is a tiny unit. Any additional detail on it will only be lost during gameplay. Look at the in-game footage on this page http://starcraft2.com/features/protoss/index.xml?tab=twilightarchon. Even when they zoom in very closely, the Marines still look amazing.

[JudicatorPrime]

That'd suck if they retained the archaic camera style in SC. It can't hurt to have a 360 Degree camera pan and full infantry unit zoom... I fully realize that it probably would go unnoticed for the most part during gameplay, but I would still look and even if its not at first directly noticeable its still better than how it looked before... I would be disappointed if a game that came out a year before is graphically better. More detail doesn't deter the game at all, they could just come up with an "Ultra" high setting palette for people who can handle it.

[Chris Benoit]

You will be able to pan 360 degrees, but there is absolutely no reason why you would need or want to zoom in that closely in a RTS game. And while a little detail doesn't hurt gameplay, it does prolong developement if Blizzard were to go back and change every little unnecessary thing some fan compains about. Blizzard won't change the Marine and I'm glad, because I would like to play Starcraft II sometime in 2008.

[JudicatorPrime]

I don't suppose every RTS out recently is evidence of people wanting to zoom in that closely in an RTS game then? Better to appreciate the game when you can actually see the units. Supcom can be played entirely in the global map view thingum, thats not to say peoplen ever want to zoom back in to see the game

SupCom, DoW, CoH, WiC (not out but will have it) to name a few. Adding more detail to infantry units wont take that long, it depends on where they are, if they expect it to release last week of december than it'll obviously delay, but otherwise no.

No doubt someone can make a high resolution 'mod' in a couple of weeks with the editor. And I never expected them to go back and change the game, nor was I complaining... just odd to see someone not want this to be the best possible game ever.

[burkid]

he never said he didnt want this to be the best possible game. its just marines look pretty good for now, so blizzard can leave them alone and focus on bigger things for now. blizz is gonna have everything look decent now, then just create and balance new and old units. once the balancing is done enough for the game to be releasable, then blizz will focus more on extras like unit and ability graphics.

just leave the marine be for now. in 6 months if you still have a problem with it, then suggest a change.

[Chris Benoit]

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2253/marinerg6.jpg
You want to zoom in this closely in a RTS where 100 or more units will be fighting simultaneously?

JudicatorPrime, we need to play a game of Starcraft II when it comes out, so I can completely dominate you while you sit there staring at the pretty graphics. Have you seen other screenshots and videos of Starcraft II? It looks great and will no doubt be the best possible game ever.

[Wlck742]

Seriously, can't we just go without complaining about the graphics for just one day? We're all going to forget about it once we actually start playing.

[Nikzad]

THIS.....IS.....STARCRAFT

NOT AGE OF THE EMPIRES


Mmmm... So being in the future that means bayonets are useless and irrelevant. Especially when the prime first tier units of BOTH the other races are close-combat oriented?


One of those units is a bloodthirsty alien being with claws that shred hardened steel, and the other is an 10-foot warrior with 5 foot long blades of pure psychic power. And you want to compare that to a piddly little 6-inch knife?

:powerup: for chris benoit

[zeratul11]

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2253/marinerg6.jpg
You want to zoom in this closely in a RTS where 100 or more units will be fighting simultaneously?

JudicatorPrime, we need to play a game of Starcraft II when it comes out, so I can completely dominate you while you sit there staring at the pretty graphics.


lmao.

anyway judicatorPrime although i think that the marines looks fine for now, i will have no problem if blizz will improve them and im with you if you are talking about every possible detail of the graphics of the game should be maximize. good to know you appreciate the graphic details of the game not only the gameplay like most people only focus too. if this game would be the most balance and competitive rts game ever, why not make this game also the most highly detailed rts game ever too in terms of unit modeling, special effects, animations, etc so then we will get the best game ever created. ^^

[Major Willy]

I'm sorry I tried fighting the urge. But I had to for great justice.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/Ell789/marineshoop.png

[zeratul11]

I'm sorry I tried fighting the urge. But I had to for great justice.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/Ell789/marineshoop.png


hahah. that should be the final look of the marines.

[Major Willy]

Or atleast under their visors.

[Nikzad]

lol the side effects of excessive stim pack usage ;D

[FlyingTiger]

LOL

zeratul11, when did your avatar become soo cute ^_^

[capthavic]

One of those units is a bloodthirsty alien being with claws that shred hardened steel, and the other is an 10-foot warrior with 5 foot long blades of pure psychic power. And you want to compare that to a piddly little 6-inch knife?



5 foot long blades? I think thats exaggerating a bit. And the bayonet looks more like a foot or so long. Anyway in the (quite likely) chance that one of them gets within striking range, it may not be much but it's better than nothing. How cool would it be to skewer an enemy and then blast them with the rifle ^_^

[Nikzad]

i was thinking more of the cinematic view of a zealot...in the gameplay pics it seems shorter, but nothing can really be taken as accurate or to scale in the game

[capthavic]

Well sure but come on, five feet? I think it would be like two or two and a half, three feet tops.

[Nikzad]

I thought they were longer than that, considering they were 10 feet tall (wow)

but then again they are melee so I think 3 feet sounds right

[JudicatorPrime]

Well seeing the intro for Brood War I'd rather have something than nothing being a Marine in a trench. Not to mention shooting at something might give you some advantage... unless you're the worst shot ever even with some bionic hax...

And yeah, I've never played SC to the competitive level where I can't just sit around watching pretty graphics... I've played clan matches and all (Like once before WC3 came out and I moved on) vs. Koreans, and thats a feat of accomplishment for myself I like to think, even if they were the crappiest ones out there, I was never the hard-boiled SC player. Anyway back to point, even then I could sit and admire the game... Being the next-generation and all there should be a level of next-gen admiration. I've already admitted in my earliest post that they were fine, and that a little touch-up wouldn't be a problem...

Unless you want to totally dominate me in Turret Defense, then I think I'll be fine. Really hope NotLD comes to SC2. Fun times...

[Shadowdragon]

Good news! The people at Blizzard have heard your cries for a new marine in starcraft! They have a high-res picture -> http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/10/27/rambo_narrowweb__300x420,0.jpg

To celebrate the new marine, they have released a more recent screenshot of starcraft 2:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/181/462563422_a698c6a7c3.jpg

We did it people!

[Nikzad]

lawlawlawlawlawlawlawlawlawlawlawlawlawlawlawl

omg dude :powerup:

[DontHate]

nice! rofl.

[Major Willy]

Leaked as well, the new 3d Marine model with a visual effect for the StimPack upgrade for whenever it's used.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/Ell789/stalloneshoop.png

[burkid]

wow willy. roflmao. haha

[Nikzad]

truly priceless....that's officially your calling card Willy hahahaha

[Chris Benoit]

Good news! The people at Blizzard have heard your cries for a new marine in starcraft! They have a high-res picture -> http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2006/10/27/rambo_narrowweb__300x420,0.jpg


I don't think there is enough detail in the new Marine model. I mean, where is his extra ammo? You mean to tell that he is going to use only the ammo already in his gun? And where is the bayonet and shield? The textures on the guy aren't quite realistic enough either.

[Nikzad]

yeah, plus, his hair looks like a big black blob...where are the individual strands? the beads of sweat on the gun? the mosquitoes? the microscopic bacteria living on his skin? wtf blizzard get on this

[capthavic]

yeah it's not realistic enough...lolz

[zeratul11]

lol the side effects of excessive stim pack usage ;D


lol


Well sure but come on, five feet? I think it would be like two or two and a half, three feet tops.


nah, i think its 4 feet at least. ofcourse they are more than 9 feet tall. 2 and a half feet psi balde will make it look just like a knife to them.

@flying tiger yah, i can't allow you to be the only one who have a cute avatar,
but still yours is the cutest =)

lmao. we need rambo as a terran hero and upgrade him to a stalloneshoop.

[LJYLJ]

what does terran do vs dark swarm now? with NO melee units u have no chance what-so-ever vs melee units under swarm? (no im not saying bayonetes should be used under a swarm) but damn...with only range terran is raped with swarm...

just came to think of this now...

[JudicatorPrime]

http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/795/795322/worldshift-20070608023551463.jpg

It'd be nice if the game had that much detail... After all if it comes out before 2010, they'd probably have nVidia Geforece 12800 and ATI 4750XTX's by then lol :)

[zeratul11]

wow! whats the game called? worldshift? so it will be released in 2010? hhmm.
the background or the environment is what the image is all about. the trees, sky, etc looks amazing and realistic. the unit seems just ok, anyway i think terran marine up close looks like that in terms of details (armor waepon etc.). or NOT ^^

but you are right starcraft 2 should look like that, or better. 8)

[JudicatorPrime]

Well in SC1, you get the simple kickass solution of Firebats... we can only assume that Marines in SC2 are f*cked lol.

[WuHT]

lol spidermines ?

[Pure Vengeance]

Some one said earlier that "It could be some new type of metal alloy that has no problem at all breaking through a zealots armor or something along those lines." I believe zealots have personal body sheilds... (sorry it was bugging me)

Anyways, I think the marines should have those upgrades to do sort of the same think as the defend/block or what ever the swordsmen use in WCIII. A good way to counter a swarm could even be the ability for marines to quickly run into a formation. You know... there are several formations and you pick which one and where depending on where you click.

...Or your could have them just raise their shield when they are near an enimy... I personaly like the thought of seeing a mob of zerglings dashing towards my base and me creating a 2 column line of marines with the front holding their shields up and everyone shooting...

[JudicatorPrime]

Don't think they would have stances and formations in SC2, but it'd be nice if surrounded you could put your marines into a circular formation and shoot outward, very cinematic and cool, even if they do get pwned.

And I dont think the average marine carries a spider-miine

[brc9210]

Well then the new metal alloy has no problem breaking personal body shields either. Bullets can do it, why not a blade.

[Pure Vengeance]

Speed...

Okay, what next? ;D

[BoydofZINJ]

That is true. it requires great speed to penetrate a harden object and strength. "bullets" can travel faster than a man thrusting a knife or blade. Even a vibro blade would require much more effort than to fire a weapon. Think of it in this term. If you can SHOOT someone or stab someone whats faster? Pulling a trigger or actually using your muscles to jab. Especially if it will take multiple shots and multiple jabs to kill someone. Let us say you needed 5 jabs to kill someone or 10 "bullets" to kill someone. What do you think is easier and faster to do. An automatic weapon than you hold the trigger and fire at someone or to jab that person?

Personally, I doubt any metal would be strong enough for a man to thrust into a harden object without the aid of either an electronical device or allot of leverage. A Vibro blade is a blade where a device will vibrate the blade in small controlled jerks so fast it causes an intense friction and the vibro blade becomes almost white hot with heat from friction. This type of weapon could be used to puncture armor; however, let us think about power supply versus ease of use. Why would I want to waste that much time when I can just pull a trigger and kill an enemy?

Think of it in this scenario. A hammer and your wall. Unless you live in a brick house, you should be able to use your hammer to put a nail in your wall. It will take you several repeated swings. On the flip side you can get an automated nail gun where you can press a trigger and it shoots a nail into the wall. Which will be faster and easier to use? The blade on the weapon, sure it could kill an object. However, how many times do you need to stab to get that kill?


what does terran do vs dark swarm now? with NO melee units u have no chance what-so-ever vs melee units under swarm? (no im not saying bayonetes should be used under a swarm) but damn...with only range terran is raped with swarm...

just came to think of this now...


Would be desperate situation where a marine would be forced to use the blade to kill an enemy. However, I never understood... how did the insects stop the bullets in the first place? Are the insects made of a super strong metal to prevent bullets to going thru them? Sci Fi Fantasy experts can debat how insects can stop my bullets.

[JudicatorPrime]

Zealot armor isn't that tough... they get killed by Zerglings too, so how do they penetrate their shields? Same way, slashing it ass loads. In the case of a marine and a close quarters encounter, its shields are probably down if he took any shots, and zealots like to expose their heads... so.. and I doubt the bayonet is like anything we've seen here, its probably made of the strongest stuff to get through zealot armor, and zerg hide... otherwise they might as well put some cream cheese at the end of the gun and expect them to use it.

Whether I'd use shots or the bayonet obviously depends on the situation... if hes trying to strangle me or slash my face off I'd use the bayonet, the gun its self is like two feet long prolly more, it'd be hard aiming that with someone one foot infront of you. Realistically though, I'd expect them to use rifle butts like the modern army would do... Rifle butt (knock down) and fire away.

[LJYLJ]

many types of progressive gunpowder used in gun's atm (present time) also gives a bluish flame...

(i remember this from when i was shooting with a hecklar & hecklar mp5 in the military)

edit
http://us.media.blizzard.com/starcraft2/images/wallpapers/wall1/wall1-1600x1200.jpg
i bet its this picture ur a talking about btw, the marines in the back are just shooting normally and the because gauss
rifles use railgun technology the smoke follows the projectile along way due to the draft from the bullet

[LJYLJ]

Would be desperate situation where a marine would be forced to use the blade to kill an enemy. However, I never understood... how did the insects stop the bullets in the first place? Are the insects made of a super strong metal to prevent bullets to going thru them? Sci Fi Fantasy experts can debat how insects can stop my bullets.



if ur refering to the dark swarm thing thats because ranged units "miss" under the swarm (etc firing into it)

bayonets could maybe be used in formation with shields, form a shield wall and walk backwards or out of things like swarm...dunno

[BoydofZINJ]

Problem with comparing a zergling to a human is they are built seperately. I would imagine an insect zergling was bioengineered to hack and slash into hardened objects. However, 2 zerglings rarely psoe much of a threat to a single zealot in straight up non micro attacks.

I would imagine zerglings have over developed muscles and the sharp parts have been bioengineered to cut thru the toughest metals. I would also imagine that the zerglings might even use a knife approach to attacking versus jabbing. A knife aproach means, basically, that the zergligns uses motion to cause a tear in an object versus a piercing jab attack. A knife or chain saw type attack. As a result, a thrust or two may not do much damage; however, as the metal starts to break down it will tend to catch on parts causing an increase in tearing. This is all theory on a make believe sci fi fantasy game.

As for the dark swarm making people "miss" can you miss a large building/unit infront of you if you are in a protective armor unit from insects? How do insects cause a Goliath to "miss" if goliaths are sealed for vacum (space) battles and somehow bullets do not breach enough of the Goliath in space type missions to cause the oxygen to explosively leave the mecha. The mechanical protoss defense cannons are probably automated and they are effected by useless bugs flying around? In another post, I posted that we should not over think some of the game mechanics. It is, afterall, a game based on sci fi fantasy that Blizzard is making up. As a result, we will just forget all of the swarm physics and just accept that somehow those pesky insects make you MISS.

[GuiMontag]

i thought the idea behind swarm was that thousands of tiny insects fly around causing no los into that area, this would also cause all automated defenses to be useless becuase they wouldn't be able to detect a units lifesign.

[Heavyarms2050]

mainly all want to put some color on the legs and arms like they had it in the trailer, and change the gun to make it closely resemble the gun the trailer.

[capthavic]

^^^ Like you'd actually notice when playing the game ::)

Do you guys have any idea how far you'd have to zoom in to see it, not to mention how lagged it'd be with hundreds of units on screen?

[Nikzad]

I know! You'll be like "I'ma 'ling rush! OH WAIT! I forgot that I can't have more than 5 zerglings on the screen without LAGGING MY BALLS OFF"

[JudicatorPrime]

^^^ Like you'd actually notice when playing the game ::)

Do you guys have any idea how far you'd have to zoom in to see it, not to mention how lagged it'd be with hundreds of units on screen?


Yeah, I do it often.

[Lemmy]

Oh come on stop being ridiculous. Those are blue lasers. Cut the crap.

[Indigent]

Just because you see it in a picture doesn't mean that it will be introduced in the game. Has anyone actualy seen marines using lasers? If anyone does please post a link. And if anyone should get laser guns then they should go to the new reapers. ;D

[BoydofZINJ]

I would imagine its not a laser as a weapon but a laser scope? I dunno.... It does make sense. However, are bullets deadlier?

[Heavyarms2050]

^^^ Like you'd actually notice when playing the game ::)

Do you guys have any idea how far you'd have to zoom in to see it, not to mention how lagged it'd be with hundreds of units on screen?


Yeah, I do it often.

there nothing cooler than zooming it and watch the battle unfold as if its was an epic battle in a movie. That why i loved playing warhammer 40k

[ZiiDriX]

A laser scope would make sence.. Add some aiming effect etc :)

[Joneagle_X]

Interesting, but I think a lot of the appeal of the marine comes from the rifles. I doubt they'll be using lasers.

[Fenix]

I would imagine its not a laser as a weapon but a laser scope? I dunno.... It does make sense. However, are bullets deadlier?


With marines, not so much bullets as needles.
But anyway, a rousing YES. A laser weapon would instantly cauterize anything it hit. Clean, no blood, no infection. A bullet, on the other hand, is messy, has impact trauma, causes massive bleeding (Internal and external), and causes infections with sickening ease. As a character in one of my old fave books says "Nothing beats human guns for blowing large messy holes in things."

But a laser scope would make perfect sense, just not blue. Blue lasers are generally used for measuring things, but rare even then. Red is the number one choice for visibility, while green is the top option for distance.

[capthavic]

DoW is a much different scale and not practical when actually playing the game. It's like with Homeworld 2 for example. Sure you can focus on the ships and follow them around close, which does look nice if you're just watching a trailer, but if you actually want to play the game then 90% (or more) of your time will be spent much farther out or from the sensor view.

The models look fine and will keep the game from lagging with all the units on screen and be playable on not just uber gaming PC's

[CapMan]

i still think the origial marine should come back, i love marines

[DontHate]

i dont even see a difference... at all.

[LJYLJ]

there more i look at the picture the more it remind of railguns


and hey, wth did i get -1 in power level... :o

[DontHate]

it isn't their style to go pew pew pew, they go more like ratatatatata.

[josh]

lol. a laser would be beneficial if blizzard has made marines to miss by chances.

[Hadean]

Jesus, you guys really over-analyze the most miniscule of things on this forum.

It's a bloody lighting effect to make it seem more moody. If it was all red n' shiz it wouldn't be as dark and depressing. Given all the intelligent remarks i've witnessed throughout this forum you'd think you'd guys recognize something as simple as that. My god.

[Wlck742]

It's just that we're so desperate for this game that people come up with speculations and conspiracies that will likely never happen.

[Indigent]

What? That doesn't make sense we aren't sassing at Starcraft or anything. We just want to know what the community is thinking and cool ideas for marines.

[stizur]

I would like my humans to shoot bullets, leave the lazers to the toss.

[AntiTossWeapon]

Sorry if there are topics discusing this
BUT i think that the marine is a siting seep for everything,even for terran weapons(banshe, plasma torbedos.etc).
They dont stand a chance even 2 or 3 to 1 against the zealots via charge ability.
i think the marine needs a hp or armor upgrade or something to not make it so vurnerable to every thing.

[JudicatorPrime]

What's this have to do with Protoss Units and Structures lol?

And no, Terran aren't "Sheep-like" whatever the hell that means, they're fine how they are.

[ArchLimit]

They do have the shield upgrade that gives it additional HP. Also, if you remember even back in SC1, they weren't all that useful/armored either. U could almost never use them individually or anything. I think they're just for earlier game, or front line defense for the massive units that are behind them.

[Fenix]

......The shield, Stim-Packs, low cost, 1 food, range upgrade, Medics, only starting unit to attack both ground and air at range? Do any of these mean anything to you?

[AntiTossWeapon]

my bad on the Toss units and structures, i was in a hurry, i thought i was in the terrran section
my idea was that the marines are raped even more than in sc1

[Eye_Carumba]

How about bunkers?? o_O There's no marine vs.zealoths that ends up well, unless the Zealoths are grossly outnumbered.

[AntiTossWeapon]

unless the Zealoths are grossly outnumberd and nerfd and in the marines are on hi ground, im just joking but the marine could use just a little hp up beside the shieald

[Fenix]

Why? Terran have always been the middle ground. Zerg have always been weak, but cheap. Protoss, overwhelmingly strong one on one, but ridiculously expensive. Marines are better than a Zergling, but weaker than a Zealot (Not Zealoths....I don't get how you mixed that up ???)

[PancakeChef]

In the first Starcraft a group of well mixed marines, firebats, and medics could easily decimate a Protoss attack force of Zealots AND Dragoons, same against Zerg and with zerglings, used properly they can be a force to be reckoned with.

[Eye_Carumba]

But never marines alone, lol! Marines + medics + firebats are meant to be owned by hidralisks! If you manage to kill their first marine with your first 2 lings early on (relies on finding the enemy base fast enough), they have to bunker themselves to defend from hydras when they arrive. Hydras own them on the field, because on enough numbers they kill faster than medics heal. ;-)

[JudicatorPrime]

my bad on the Toss units and structures, i was in a hurry, i thought i was in the terrran section
my idea was that the marines are raped even more than in sc1


If you think Marines are getting raped a lot, wait for the Zerg footage. It's the same principal just more of them... so pretty much nothing has changed.

[Gasmaskguy]

it isn't their style to go pew pew pew, they go more like ratatatatata.


yes, marines > ratatatatata

protoss > pew pew pew

[Indigent]

Agreed.

[Gasmaskguy]

let the protoss keep their fancy laserweaponrys, led and explosives iz da ****. 8)

[DKutrovsky]

But they removed the emblem that was there before.

http://starcraft2.com/screenshot.xml?8 - old marines in one of the screnies

http://www.shacknews.com/screenshots.x?gallery=8053&game_id=4110&id=103270 - new one.

I also have a feeling they did some other work on the marine look, it looks very good right now imo.

[cereal]

Yeah its an improvement overall, but I'm still not totally sold on the whole shield and bayonet thing.

[DKutrovsky]

Bayonet is really just for looks, shield is good.

Marines are meat shields.

Meat SHIELDS. Get it ?

Plus, with the new add on for barracks you can mass marines to be effective meat shields

[Shadowdragon]

DK, I am trying to hurt you with my thoughts as hard as I can. You should get a headache sometime today.

As for the bayonet...well...maybe a laser bayonet, that shoots fire. But the shields are cool. It would at least be good for smashing a few faces in.

[kuvasz]

Laser bayonet? That shoots fire? ::)
The shield is OK but I can only imagine the bayonet if you can alternate between using that or the rifle. You know, the "new firebat": increased damage at the cost of range. With a mean poking animation :thumbup:

[Nikzad]

I'm pretty sure this was in another thread...someone back me up?

[FlyingTiger]

http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/index.php?topic=78.420

this one but it's locked cause I think it exceeded the post limit per thread lol

[JudicatorPrime]

Holy crap, that's a lot of Marines, I'm going through the screenshots now :)

[SirBaron]

Bayonet is really just for looks, shield is good.
Out of a gameplay perspective, the shield was added as a minor melee defense for the Marines, seeing as they were ***-r*p*d by any melee unit in SC1. The bayonet doesn't serve any purpose though (obviously).

Out of a story perspective, the shields were added as a measure against Zerglings and Zealots (mainly Zerglings i believe) they didn't have melee shields in SC1 because they didn't know about the Zerg at that point (or the Protoss, for that matter).
So, the shield is mainly there to stem the tide of Zerglings (think roman legionnaires lining up, doing that shield-box thing, w/e it was called), and the bayonet, of course, to slice them to bits.

[DKutrovsky]

I think you can hide behind the shield from anything really, not only melee. Any ranged attack can be stopped if the shield is good enough. Even lazers from Stalkers for instance, or bullets from other marines and spikes from hydras and whatnot.

[Nikzad]

yeah it's an all-purpose +15 hp for the marine, so it is factored into every attack, not just melee

and @ SirBaron - I forget the Roman word for it, but the formation was called the Tortoise

[timedragon888]

Does the marine shield actually help reduce damage taken, or does it just raise the max hp of the marine?

[paragon]

testudo

[Steve22x]

That symbol in the original shield really looked like the symbol of "las plagas" from Resident Evil 4. If Blizzard realized that then maybe that could be a reason they removed it due to copyright laws, etc..

[BnechbReaker]

i thinks the shields should have some design on them

[BnechbReaker]

the bit were 50 marines got raped by 8 banshees in 2 secs did seem over the top

[Hadean]

Tbh i'm a little worried too. Back when I played, I messed around one game and it turned out to be a great strat to use. 2 squads of wraiths, 3-4 sci vessels, all the rest on marines. It was meant as a joke as "Starship Troopers" style battles, but it ended up kicking the **** out of carriers, bcs, reavers. Essentially, anything that rapes marines, you cloak and wipe out with vessels and wraiths, anything they can swarm (which was ALOT of things) you swarm. From the looks of the trailers, siege tanks one hit individual marines and thats not cool. They couldn't do that in the previous game, which leads me to believe they've essentially taken one of the coolest units in the game, and nerfed the **** out of it.

[Ghost]

Siege Tanks are more expensive but more powerfull in SC2. Thats why they could blow the crap out of marines in the video.

[FlyingTiger]

the bit were 50 marines got raped by 8 banshees in 2 secs did seem over the top


haha they glorified the banshees just a little too much. And you wouldn't be dumb enough to group your marines in a small area either. Microing is key for the terrans. Plus I think it was more than 8 banshees and like less than 50 marines. The costs offsets itself.

[Ghost]

^ True, but also, if you are fighting Banshees with light ground infantry and they cloakc you run for cover.

[Nikzad]

testudo


yes, testudo is the Roman word for the formation of phalanxes and whatnot that arranged their shields in defensive positions like that

[10-Neon]

I have to agree that there isn't really a strong counter for Zealots, at least, not on the first tier. I think Reapers and Vikings can do the job pretty well, but as it is, Zealots are the weakest Protoss ground units before they're upgraded. I mean, they're so slow that you get Immortals and Stalkers outpacing them. All you have to do with Marines is do some decent micro and your odds are a bit better. I am hoping for the return of the Firebat, because there isn't currently anything that can fry Zealots and Zerglings in quite the same way.

[Hadean]

Thank you Neon. It's what i've been preaching all along!

[Ghost]

Yeah, firebats need to come back, but as a diferent unit from the reaper cuz the reaper is a beautiful creation.

[BnechbReaker]

haha they glorified the banshees just a little too much. And you wouldn't be dumb enough to group your marines in a small area either. Microing is key for the terrans. Plus I think it was more than 8 banshees and like less than 50 marines. The costs offsets itself.


ok it was 10 banshees and 45 marines, still it was a massacre

[L0ck and L04d]

I don't caire about an upgrade, all I want blizzard to do is make a cool finishing move animation when killing organic units for the bayoneted marines, like the zealots, no cutign the heads off but pointing the gun down and stabing them instead of swishing and cuting them throught the middle.

[capthavic]

Of course a bayonet is not a effective as a gun, but much like the shield it's better than nothing when your face to face with a zergling.

[Wlck742]

I guess you could call it that, but what good is better than nothing when you're ripped to shreds?

[capthavic]

It can mean the difference between life and death. At least with a shield and knife you stand a better chance than if you had nothing but air between you and it. And anyone who would give up that advantage is a fool in my opinion.

[brc9210]

Speed...

Okay, what next? ;D


Umm its a new metal alloy that doesn't need as much speed to break something as the blades we have today. Also like someone said a Zealots head is always exposed plus there are other units like Dt's that don't even wear armor.

[WuHT]

It can mean the difference between life and death. At least with a shield and knife you stand a better chance than if you had nothing but air between you and it. And anyone who would give up that advantage is a fool in my opinion.

keep in mind that it's still added cost of production (generals dont seem to care much about their troops hehe) and the manauervability of such a large gun that will be lengthened with a blade might be determinental in close quarters (but hey it's just a game).

I like how starcraft had specialized units (not just using riflemen to gun everything down) and simply put, melee range is and should be a weakness (gamewise ) to marines. You dont want the marines to become an all-purpose unit, espeically one so low on the tech tree.