Blackhole

[ImaGiNe.]

I do not really know where to put this topic under but placing it here in the Stategy Discussion seemed to fit best.

As we have all seen, the Protoss Mothership displayed some crazy space altering ability. Now my question is will it be able to destroy buildings by sucking them into the endless void? Will it work on planetary surfaces (Jungle, Badlands, etc. etc?) Will it stop a nuke if placed right?

I mean I can see some mean and crazy applications of Blackhole's use but I just can not stop pondering on how much it will affect you know? Your thoughts??

[shirija]

From the video it seem to be used for air. otherwise imagine a mothership rushing into a choke point barricade or even worse the main base, start up the projectile defense, and crank up the black hole, wait for the field to drop, then flee back to base (or recall). That would be pretty screwed up.

[ImaGiNe.]

Yeah the video showed how much blackhole can ass rape a fleet of expensive battlecruisers, imagine (no pun intended! 8)) the application of it on a choke in tandem with the High Templars barricade making abilities. NICE!

[[LightMare]]

no, that's when you use planet cracker. besides, chokehold defenses are useless with reapers and colossus. but, in some vids, i saw colossus getting attacked by turrets. reapers prob will be too.

[shirija]

Speaking of colossus, they could implement snipers for terrans to counter reapers so their imba barricade will still be just as imba...

[[LightMare]]

but i have an alternative. colossus and reapers cannot walk over buildings. circle your base in fastest map with turrets, they are useless.

[shirija]

Since terran's so ranged attack dependant, the mothership can crack blockades no matter what you do :)

[burkid]

hmm...what if a barracks or cc or something lifted off then got hit by blackhole? would the building get sucked in?

[T-man]

hmm...what if a barracks or cc or something lifted off then got hit by blackhole? would the building get sucked in?


Good question, but since flying buildings in SC1 were "air" units and air-targetable, I'd say that black hole would own flying buildings.

[burkid]

that would be amazing, win the game by sucking the enemys base down the drain

[generalrievous]

ya it would be but would be way to easy to destroy a base with good thing they are keeping it in the air ;D
however you could just wait for them to move their base :P

[burkid]

haha i could see a terran player going, "ok im gonna move these barracks' up to the front lines, so i can kee... **** MS MS!! LAND LAND LAND!!!"

[ImaGiNe.]

ya it would be but would be way to easy to destroy a base with good thing they are keeping it in the air ;D
however you could just wait for them to move their base :P

I doubt it would be easy to destroy a base with a black hole because it most likely costs a ton of energy and you would really have to assault a base.

My third question leaves a wealth of room to discuss; "Will it stop a nuke if placed right?"

The nuke would be considered aerial as it descends from the skies, so if you were to time a black hole right and the nuke comes raining down, would the black hole pull it into it's gaping mouth of deadly, deadly void? Or will the nuke be unscathed?

[burkid]

hmm... that would be sweet.

do you think the blackhole would suck freindly units in too?

[ImaGiNe.]

I imagine (no pun intended :)) it would, as a black hole, defined by NASA is an object whose gravitational pull inside a certain radius is so strong that nothing, not even light can escape it. If light can not escape it, then friendly units will not be able to for sure.

Though pointing a black hole in an area with friendly units would be crazy... LOL! ULTIMATE BACKSTABBING SKILL!

[burkid]

haha, "Oh, was that your battlecruiser armada? my bad..." :P

[paragon]

I imagine (no pun intended :)) it would, as a black hole, defined by NASA is an object whose gravitational pull inside a certain radius is so strong that nothing, not even light can escape it. If light can not escape it, then friendly units will not be able to for sure

Well blackholes don't disappear in a few seconds like in SC2. So what NASA says isn't really relevant

[ImaGiNe.]

I imagine (no pun intended :)) it would, as a black hole, defined by NASA is an object whose gravitational pull inside a certain radius is so strong that nothing, not even light can escape it. If light can not escape it, then friendly units will not be able to for sure

Well blackholes don't disappear in a few seconds like in SC2. So what NASA says isn't really relevant

It would only make more sense that the black hole does engulf friendly units. Besides why would anyone want to tear a hole in space near their own men and allies?

[paragon]

It would only make more sense that the black hole does engulf friendly units. Besides why would anyone want to tear a hole in space near their own men and allies?

Accident? Backstabbing? Wrong spell activated (see accident)?

[burkid]

haha what if 2 protoss were fighting, both with ms, and both ms used black hole simotaneously on eachother... that would be amazing.

[paragon]

Yeah someone posted that in another thread. May have been me, may not have. Anyways. I'd love to see that happen.

[ImaGiNe.]

It would only make more sense that the black hole does engulf friendly units. Besides why would anyone want to tear a hole in space near their own men and allies?

Accident? Backstabbing? Wrong spell activated (see accident)?

I really don't see how pressing the hot key to activate the black hole and pointing the mouse to a specific location could be an accident. But who knows? 8)

Though pointing a black hole in an area with friendly units would be crazy... LOL! ULTIMATE BACKSTABBING SKILL!
I did mention it as a backstabbing method. So if you were to be able to BS then I am sure that the black hole will be able to eat up the friends.

[FlyingTiger]

Maybe they shouldn't call it a black hole. Calling it a black hole makes people think it is actually a black hole. Maybe this special "hole" (should be called like Warp Hole) only targets enemy units and sucks them in. eh who knows.

I don't think it's going to affect friendly units because of the potential backstabbing.

[paragon]

Or the potential for lack of communication leading to your ally accidentally flying to the spot where you are casting black hole

[ImaGiNe.]

I am thinking sometimes it would be necessary to rip a hole in space near a few allied units to take a bite out of the enemy fleet. Let's say an enemy is sending a huge fleet of battle cruisers and you use the phoenix units to engage. Offer them as sacrificial lambs to the gaping jaws of hungry Terran commanders and lure the fleet into taking the bait! Hook, line, and RIPPING A BLACK HOLE!

Nice!

[Ghost]

I imagine (no pun intended :)) it would, as a black hole, defined by NASA is an object whose gravitational pull inside a certain radius is so strong that nothing, not even light can escape it. If light can not escape it, then friendly units will not be able to for sure

Well blackholes don't disappear in a few seconds like in SC2. So what NASA says isn't really relevant


yea anyway, toss are masters of space and have powers and tech far supasing our understanding, this "blackhole" might infact not be an anctual black hole but a crack in the space time continium which sends things trapped in it to an alternate dimension, the name blackhole might be used for some sort of psycological warfare to inspire fear.

[paragon]

Maybe it's just a wormhole like the ones the arbiter makes but this one is linked to a sun or something hence the high gravity and the death on the other side

[Ghost]

high gravity and the death on the other side


Lol. Yesh, maybe

[burkid]

or maybe it opens a wormhole to a black hole, then just seals the wormhole.

[Ghost]

or maybe it opens a wormhole to a black hole, then just seals the wormhole.


Hm, that is certainly possible, and the huge amount of energy it required could be in direct proportion to the distance the wormhole has to travel.

[paragon]

or maybe it opens a wormhole to a black hole, then just seals the wormhole.

Everyone knows that if you open a wormhole to a black hole you can't close it.

[burkid]

well that makes more sense then opening a black hole then closing it.

[Itsmyship]

Maybe they replicate an extremely small-scale version of a supernova by focusing an immense amount of psi energy on a very small amount of space or maybe they just focus all their psi energy on a small place with such a density, that it replicates the same fuction as a Black Hole or something. *shrug*

[burkid]

Maybe they replicate an extremely small-scale version of a supernova by focusing an immense amount of psi energy on a very small amount of space or maybe they just focus all their psi energy on a small place with such a density, that it replicates the same fuction as a Black Hole or something. *shrug*


if they could create enough gravity to mimic a black hole, i wonder what protos trash compactors are like...

[paragon]

A supernova? They probably just make a psi version of a black hole without a supernova.

[MrFrancko]

Maybe they replicate an extremely small-scale version of a supernova by focusing an immense amount of psi energy on a very small amount of space or maybe they just focus all their psi energy on a small place with such a density, that it replicates the same fuction as a Black Hole or something. *shrug*


if they could create enough gravity to mimic a black hole, i wonder what protos trash compactors are like...

I was thinking about this as well. Blackhole is probaby just a name because of what it looks like but the protoss probably just found a way to create some sort of ultra gravity situation or temporarily create a field of dense anti-matter.

[paragon]

Or maybe they make something the size of a marble but so dense it weighs more than a very large sun. Like a psi marble.

[Itsmyship]

Or maybe they make something the size of a marble but so dense it weighs more than a very large sun. Like a psi marble.


Yeah, that was mostly where my idea is going....though im not sure if that comment was sincere or mocking :P

[paragon]

Or maybe they make something the size of a marble but so dense it weighs more than a very large sun. Like a psi marble.


Yeah, that was mostly where my idea is going....though im not sure if that comment was sincere or mocking :P

It was both. Either way, it's clearly not an actual black hole.

[drewcbarnard]

Or maybe they make something the size of a marble but so dense it weighs more than a very large sun. Like a psi marble.


Yeah, that was mostly where my idea is going....though im not sure if that comment was sincere or mocking :P

It was both. Either way, it's clearly not an actual black hole.


I agree, It definetly does not fit the description of a "Black Hole". This may be a dumb question, but does the "Black Hole" or whatever you want to call it suck up ground units as well as air units? I didn't see any demonstration of the "Black Hole" on ground units. Just pondering...

[paragon]

I agree, It definetly does not fit the description of a "Black Hole". This may be a dumb question, but does the "Black Hole" or whatever you want to call it suck up ground units as well as air units? I didn't see any demonstration of the "Black Hole" on ground units. Just pondering...

No, actually. Just air units. Which makes it even less black holey

[DontHate]

hey sorry if someone answered this question but i never checked becuase i'm too lazy, is there friendly fire with the black hole? like can your allied ships or your own ships fall into it?

[paragon]

hey sorry if someone answered this question but i never checked becuase i'm too lazy, is there friendly fire with the black hole? like can your allied ships or your own ships fall into it?

Nobody knows yet.

[[LightMare]]

can blackhole suck up a bunch of lifted off terran buildings? imagine a base lifts off and you blackhole them!


and, what happens if an enemy ship isn't sucked in completely and the blackhole finishes?

[paragon]

Maybe it sucks stuff in until there is nothing left in the area. Maybe if you keep feeding it ships it will stay open. It seemed to close right after the last battlecruiser was sucked in.

[burkid]

hey sorry if someone answered this question but i never checked becuase i'm too lazy, is there friendly fire with the black hole? like can your allied ships or your own ships fall into it?

in our speculations, most seem to believe that there is freindly fire.

can blackhole suck up a bunch of lifted off terran buildings? imagine a base lifts off and you blackhole them!

im pretty sure that buildings can be sucked in, as ive said previously.

and, what happens if an enemy ship isn't sucked in completely and the blackhole finishes?

that is a good question

[[LightMare]]

but wouldn't it be cool if buildings went "Weeeeeee" down the blackhole? anyway, i dream of it. but there is only so much that the ability can do

[WaterGolem]

If only the mothership is in the area (ie no other units) and opens a black hole in front of it, but far away enough to not be sucked in, would the line of sight behind the black hole disappear due to the light getting sucked in? Or do you guys think the area behind will still be visible what with how it's not a real black hole?

[burkid]

If only the mothership is in the area (ie no other units) and opens a black hole in front of it, but far away enough to not be sucked in, would the line of sight behind the black hole disappear due to the light getting sucked in? Or do you guys think the area behind will still be visible what with how it's not a real black hole?

its not real

[Itsmyship]

Dude...its not a black hole, just a name

[WaterGolem]

Well obviously its not a real black hole, otherwise it wouldn't disappear so quickly. I'm just wondering, if it can suck in a battlecruiser then it's plausible that it can also suck in light, thus making it impossible to see around it if you only have one unit present

[GuiMontag]

if they wanted it to look realistic then you wouldnt see any graphics lol, all your ships would just disapear out of nowhere :P

[SirBaron]

Personally, i'd like the Black Hole to have a "rip/implosion" effect on the ships rather than them becoming craplong looking like foam toys that's been yanked too much.
Think a shockwave from a nuke except reversed. It would be awesome.

[Ghost]

As humans, we have never achieved a PERFECT vaccum, we know what would happen in theory, but not in practice. So maybe the toss have developed the ability to create a small area of PERFECT and complete vaccum, this may lead to the laws of physics desperate suction of all nearby solids to occupy the space.

[[LightMare]]

black hole does not suck in YOUR flyers. only the enemy ones.

[Ghost]

As far as we know, maybe theyll make the black hole neutral for balance issues.

[burkid]

black hole does not suck in YOUR flyers. only the enemy ones.

you dont know that

[paragon]

Can the mothership blackhole itself if it does also affect your units?

[ImaGiNe.]

It's possible that it can deploy a blackhole and get itself voided. It makes no sense that the use of a black hole effects everything except the mothership. Why would the mothership be spared? How could it be spared? Have the Protoss perfected some anti-black hole technology? Then if that is the case, the use of the black hole should have no effect on any Protoss war bird.

[Lord David]

Ok, So Heroes are in single player right? What would happen if they put a Mothership in a really hard Terran mission where you like have the Hyperion? Would there be the possibility of it being sucked like the rest of your fleet? Would you need to learn how to avoid a blackhole casting so you don't lose the game in a matter of minutes? ;D

Yes, yes I know, this isn't really relevant!

[Lord David]

It's possible that it can deploy a blackhole and get itself voided. It makes no sense that the use of a black hole effects everything except the mothership. Why would the mothership be spared? How could it be spared? Have the Protoss perfected some anti-black hole technology? Then if that is the case, the use of the black hole should have no effect on any Protoss war bird.



Hmm Motherships should be effected by a blackhole, even your own! Just imagine some noob managing to make a Mothership, then perform a blackhole near it... (a little too near it) Just imagine the look on his face! :thumbup:

[ImaGiNe.]

It is pretty relevant since it concerns the use of a black hole.

That's a good question and something that I cannot answer, however I will say this, that would totally suck.

[Lord David]

It is pretty relevant since it concerns the use of a black hole.

That's a good question and something that I cannot answer, however I will say this, that would totally suck.


We're talking about the single player mission with an air hero and good enemy AI right?

[ImaGiNe.]

We're talking about the single player mission with an air hero and good enemy AI right?

Yes sir!

[paragon]

You'd have to be careful not to get your hero near a mothership.

[10-Neon]

I am pretty sure that computers don't use the nastier special abilities on heroes, so I don't think it would be a problem unless you actually fly straight into the black hole.

[paragon]

I am pretty sure that computers don't use the nastier special abilities on heroes, so I don't think it would be a problem unless you actually fly straight into the black hole.

Sure in SC AI but this is SC2. 10 years more advanced AI should be smarter.

[MrFrancko]

I am pretty sure that computers don't use the nastier special abilities on heroes, so I don't think it would be a problem unless you actually fly straight into the black hole.

Sure in SC AI but this is SC2. 10 years more advanced AI should be smarter.

Yeah, i'm pretty interested to see how crazy the AI will become now. I wonder if Blizzard will include difficulty settings on individual computer players?

[burkid]

You'd have to be careful not to get your hero near a mothership.

...hey whered artanis go?

[ImaGiNe.]

If anything like heroes and how they are generally not targeted in StarCraft 1, the Mothership would not cast a black hole on a hero unit instead it would choose to fire it at lesser units.

[burkid]

If anything like heroes and how they are generally not targeted in StarCraft 1, the Mothership would not cast a black hole on a hero unit instead it would choose to fire it at lesser units.

just like how youd never lose fenix to spawn broodling since the queens use it on all the other dragoons.

[ArchLimit]

I've got my doubts on the black hole being as powerful as it seems. I'm thinking that neutrality is about as far as it goes, and rightfully so (balancing reasons). I have my doubts on it even sucking in enemy "ms-like" heroes. It's kind of like in Warcraft III, where the Kodo beast can devour anything, or such 'n such can do this pretty deadly thing but never on a Hero unit. Doesn't exactly make SENSE from a narrative point of view, but I would think it'd be pretty lame for a Hero to get devoured or a Terran Ultimate-Megatron thing to get sucked into a black hole. Just a thought.

[thiefingdude]

Wraith: I'm getting sucked in the blackhole!!! Help me someone!!!
Wait...wait!
I'm going out! Yes, yes! I'm alive!!!

Marine: How the (censor) did you get out?

Wraith: There was a huge..uh...how you say it...but it included water...

[paragon]

I am pretty sure that computers don't use the nastier special abilities on heroes, so I don't think it would be a problem unless you actually fly straight into the black hole.

Sure in SC AI but this is SC2. 10 years more advanced AI should be smarter.

Yeah, i'm pretty interested to see how crazy the AI will become now. I wonder if Blizzard will include difficulty settings on individual computer players?

Most likely. WC3 had it.

[Itsmyship]

What?

[burkid]

i think the most it would do is if you place it on a base it would kill the miniers and bet the base up pretty badly

blackhole only works on air...

[drewcbarnard]

i think the most it would do is if you place it on a base it would kill the miniers and bet the base up pretty badly


5 Minerals to the first person who can figure out what this quote means...I'm serious

[burkid]

i think he meant that if you cast black hole on a base it would destroy the workers and damage the buildings severly.

[Ghost]

CONGRATULATIONS, YOU WIN 5 MINERALS!

[burkid]

WAHOO!! IM GONNA RETIRE EARLY!

i think the most it would do is if you place it on a base it would kill the miniers and bet the base up pretty badly

seriously though, jrmiller, do even know what blackhole does? it sucks up AIR units! not workers! and it doesnt hurt buildings!

[Ghost]

jrmiller, read up on previous posts, dont just go on post rampage.

[UchihaItachi0129]

lol wow read next time.and just wow... XD

[LimaBeanMage]

I wonder where the cut off point will be for the black hole. It took quite a while for those battle cruisers to get sucked in fully. I want to know at what point does it become purely graphical or if it remains deadly for the time it is visible.

In either outcome it would seem odd. If it is graphical after the initial casting then you would be able to send another fleet of battle cruisers on top of the graphics of a bunch of battle cruisers being consumed which I think would look really silly. After all, if a black hole is still sucking something in then it still probably has power to affect things that get too close to it until it dies. Just imagine a group of fliers landing on top of the animations and waving farewell to their buddies who are about twenty feet away from them.

Although, if it affected things around it until it disappeared then it would cause wacky animations and timing. If it were sucking in that fleet of battle cruisers, twisting and mangling their physical form, and just before it ends you decide to fly a single wraith into it. What would happen to that wraith? It can't do a full death animation because it takes so long and would perpetuate the black hole itself. But it wouldn't be able to just let it go, would it get sucked in immediately without a drawn out animation?

So many questions.

[Ghost]

I think it only lasts until it sux in its first buttload of ships, then I think its purely graphical.

[drewcbarnard]

We know just about as much as you at this point in respect to the "black hole" which really isn't even a black hole, more of a recall you can use on the enemy, except it sents the target victim (that being an air unit(s) of some sort) to another dimension or universe.

I wonder what the range on the "black hole" is. It really didn't take too long to suck the BC's in honestly. I know it may of seemed long but it really was about 3 - 4 seconds in total for that to occur. It is a good question though with respect to what your asking; will more units get sucked in if they happen to fall into the range after the "black hole" has been cast already?

I honestly think that Blizzard most likely will make it so that whatever units are in the selected range of the "black hole" upon casting it, will get sucked in, and that is it. I know it may be a little "whack" for them to do this because again, that would be another thing to further demote this Mothership ability as being an actual black hole on top of it dissappearing anyways. Regardless I think this will be the only way to not mess with the graphics, but cause I just don't see the "blackhole" staying open anymore than it's alotted time period just because more units fall into it's range.

Just a thought..... :)

[kingsky123]

think of it as an uber psinoic storm