a zergs desire~

[thitian]

hi ;D
this is just about zergs in sc2 and what ild like for them in comparison to sc1

creep:

i want my creep to give me any advantages if it doesnt gives any disadvantages to protoss and terran
+ regen or + faster move would be hot! some juicy gliding~

larva:

i want a larva colony building or something at a higher tech level since i dont want 3 hatcherys in an attack base

egg:

i dont want to mutate my larvas into eggs since it doesnt make any sense ( evolutionary) it should be renamed at least into cocoon or something >:(

drone:

i want the drones have legs since they look like stupid cars driving around

overlord:

i just liked the ovy <3

zergling:

new animation is awesome :thumbup:
banelings are sweet and the evolution out of infested terrans to me at least

hydralisk + lurker:

just want it back in sc2 as cool as it was in sc1 maybe an addititional mutation :o

scourge:

banelings for ground scourge for air <3

mutalisk:

...............i want a cool looking zerg flyer not a flying ugly car and car version2 doesnt look any better -.-

guardian + devourer:

while guardian is too sexy to not return devourer could have some new graphics too still not as ugly as the mutas...

queen:

i want the queen to produce any larvas would make sense a bit at least maybe glued on the top of the hatchery
with a large sack or something ;D and if its still there as a unit make parasites invisible and become burstlings
after 1min in living units at least xD use the extra ability slot for something evil :sleeping:...

ultralisk:

i want it useful just give it 200 hp more XD

defiler:

i dont want any additional casting units.. defiler is fine zergs are creatures; casting for terrans and toss is ok but not for zerg this one unit seems to be necessary for balance but please not more in sc2

infested terran:

i have banelings .. stay in sc1...
lets infest protoss now :good:

nydus worm:

i want to put 8 ultras with 1k hp in it!

other units:

just more new unique units would be sweet~

for the buildings:

maybe a bit more organic elements would be great some veins conecting them over the creep would look cool

+ less is more

oh and dont show zerg stuff till close till release <3 makes ppl go crazy

[ImaGiNe.]

creep:

i want my creep to give me any advantages if it doesnt gives any disadvantages to protoss and terran
+ regen or + faster move would be hot! some juicy gliding~
Booooooo! Would ruin the balance of the game as a Zerg player will now be able to turtle up his base.

larva:

i want a larva colony building or something at a higher tech level since i dont want 3 hatcherys in an attack base
Hatcheries are the basis of any Zerg force! Though it would make sense to have at a higher tech tree level, but it would seriously destroy the pace of battle in the latter part of the game. Look at Terran and Protoss production rates, no match if you were to have six or so Larva colonies.

egg:

i dont want to mutate my larvas into eggs since it doesnt make any sense ( evolutionary) it should be renamed at least into cocoon or something
It totally makes sense! If you think otherwise then the Zerg will devour your soul! :P

drone:

i want the drones have legs since they look like stupid cars driving around
They do have legs, they just crawl so fast they defy gravity.

ultralisk:

i want it useful just give it 200 hp more
And have it's damage at 50 and maybe change the name to Torrasque. :)

defiler:

i dont want any additional casting units.. defiler is fine zergs are creatures; casting for terrans and toss is ok but not for zerg this one unit seems to be necessary for balance but please not more in sc2
Why not?! Defilers were Carrier killers and really fit in with the Zerg.

Keep up with the Zerg desires though... they may come true :) Let's desire together... as a swarm!

[PowerkickasS]

this sounds like kerrigan vs zasz =D

[Dxun]

some kind of larva producing building sounds like an ok idea but i might prefer some kind of hatchery upgrade that once upgraded is active for all hatcherys you own...that adds 3 larva to each hatchery and reduces the respawn time on them...i just wanna be able to mass units without 6 hatcherys.

[FlyingTiger]

well the point of zerg is too have a lot of hatcheries. too convieient for a zerg player to have one or two hatcheries (or hives in this case) and have 6+ larvas. this game is suppose to be challenging. now lets have gateways have 10 queues instead of 5. ::)

[MrFrancko]

...now lets have gateways have 10 queues instead of 5. ::)

I agree than queue should have more room. Never made any sense that you had to micro your buildings so much just to build armies. At least it is going to be nice to be able to assign your buildings to a hotkey and build units in all of them with one button. As for the hatcheries, i'd like to see Larvae continue to come out while units are being built. I think this would even things up if queues were made larger.

[FlyingTiger]

As for the hatcheries, i'd like to see Larvae continue to come out while units are being built. I think this would even things up if queues were made larger.


Larvae does come out while you are building. I usually get three eggs with a larvae or four eggs. It's all timed and limited to three larvae, and eggs don't equal larvae.

[Piretes]

I agree than queue should have more room. Never made any sense that you had to micro your buildings so much just to build armies.


Erm... Usually the problem is the other way around... Never made sense you should macro resource production to keep your production running... But wait, it's a strategy game, not a battle simulator! D'oh!

At least it is going to be nice to be able to assign your buildings to a hotkey and build units in all of them with one button.

You already can... Well the hotkey part. Don't really understand the post, but are you suggesting you can hotkey multiple buildings on one and produce simultaneously?

As for the hatcheries, i'd like to see Larvae continue to come out while units are being built. I think this would even things up if queues were made larger.

Larvae already come out when units are being built. Mebbe not when you go lings, but I sure see them when I'm in a Ultra mood. I think I once had 9 eggs at one hatch once.. 6 for sure.

[MrFrancko]

Yeah, I just mean that you can select multiple buildings and, like a group of units, can put them into a group and come back to them with a push of a button. Then you can have them all build the same unit.

[FlyingTiger]

yea it's been confirmed that you already can select multiple buildings. It's in here:

http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc-general&t=192812&p=1&#post192812

[[LightMare]]

work on spelling, much? zerg's. the zerg, not the zergs

[thitian]

sry for the zergs lmao
please forgive me english isnt my first language :o

[paragon]

I think a larva building would be a bad idea. too many larva = too many zerg units being built at once = the other races are ****ed

[zeratul11]

drone:

i want the drones have legs since they look like stupid cars driving around



lol.

anyway changing the name of the ultralisk to torrasque would be cool. and i think most of the units you mention may not be included anymore in sc2. the protoss lost a lot of units from sc 1, so both terran and zerg will lose most of their units from sc 1 too. at least we will be seeing new units for the zerg and terran which is better.

[Itsmyship]

Zeratul, a Torrasque is a hero-unit Ultralisk that takes an insane of amount of ppl to kill. You see him in the last mission of the Terran in BW....it took me 2 or 3 bunkers and 4 siege tanks to kill him quickly :P

[paragon]

"After this, a Torrasque appeared in Zerg Campaign Episode VI, Mission II as a rescueable unit. When an SCV carring a psi emitter approaches the Torrasque, it becomes active and supports the aims of the Cerebrate to destroy the Psi Disruptor."
I don't remember this part at all... does anyone else remember controlling a Torrasque?


Then there is this in Ressurrection IV:
"After this point, the Torrasque disappears from the StarCraft Universe until it is brought back in Resurrection IV when James Raynor and Taldarin attack the base of Infested Stukov on the planet Braxis. In the climax, four Torrasques simultaneously burst out of Zerg buildings to attack the Protoss coming to destroy the Zerg led by Infested Stukov. The Torrasques were defeated and have not been seen since in the StarCraft Universe since."

Maybe they're extinct. Maybe they'll come back in SC2...

[burkid]

i remember the torrasque in the zerg campaign, but he doesnt get ressurected like the one in the terran campaign

[zeratul11]

yes i know about the torrasque in starcraft campaign. i used battlecruisers to take care of the tortured torrasque. they were ressurected? yes i remeber the mission were you have a scv with psi thing to lure zerg into your command, yes i was able to lure an ultralisk, but i dont think it was a torrasque.

[Remy]

Mutas are not ugly. They are sexy and beautiful. Too bad they look fat in SC2.

I kinda wish every Zerg unit will have at least one(two is even better) aspect/evolution/mutation. I mean even scourges(if they're back), and perhaps even drones, and all the new units. Obviously units evolved from other units won't need additional aspects.

I want a larva producing ground unit at tier 2 or 3. I envision a large unit with larvae on its back, could look like a turtle or whatever. It will basically be just like having a mobile hatchery. This way you can produce units right where the fight is, near the frontlines. With Toss getting warp-in, I don't think this will be too much, and it feels very Zerg.

[ImaGiNe.]

Wouldn't the Nydus Worm be a faster way to route troops to the frontline?

[zeratul11]

Mutas are not ugly. They are sexy and beautiful. Too bad they look fat in SC2.


lol.

i think only small units can ride the nydus the worm like the zerglings.. yes the zerg turtle idea would be cool. i mean you could build right a way a new unit if a new larva spawns from it, aside from your hives plus its mobile so you can just hold position it safely near on any battles or in strategic locations.

[Remy]

By larva, I mean larva just like the ones you get from hatcheries. You can make drones, casters, mutas, ovies, you name it.

We don't know exactly how nydus worms work yet, they might move slow. Besides, if it was a prolonged battle, I don't think multiple trips transporting will be the same thing. Loading all your units into ovies just to send to the frontlines wasn't really any faster than just having them run there you know what I mean?

[paragon]

That sounds like it would imbalance the zerg too much. They're already fast. That would make them just continue their onslaught without pause.

[Remy]

You can't really just make a million of em cuz being units they'll take up food/supply count, while not being able to offer any direct offensive capabilities.

I don't think the "Zerg turtle" can really be abused.Â* You're basically paying mineral/gas for something that lets you do what you can already do with hatcheries, but these take up food and can be killed much easier than hatches.

Larva spawn rate will also limit you from pumping out units non-stop after you make the first ones.Â* It goes without saying that the turtles should only spawn larva at the rate of hatchery at max, not lair/hive rate.

[paragon]

Well imagine someone having a bunch of these turtle units right by the front and once units die they are replaced right there rather than having to make them at their base and moving them up to the battle.

[Ghost]

That sounds like it would imbalance the zerg too much. They're already fast. That would make them just continue their onslaught without pause.


Story-wise it would be appropiate, but not for the fun of the game =D

[Remy]

Well imagine someone having a bunch of these turtle units right by the front and once units die they are replaced right there rather than having to make them at their base and moving them up to the battle.


How many is a bunch? I'm imagining high tech and 2~3 food, not to mention gas cost. If we're talking about say six turtles, that would already be 12 to 18 food just for the turtles who can't even fight. That's 24 to 36 lings or 12 to 18 hydras that you could have had instead. If you get even more turtles, sure you can replace a greater number of units quickly, but it also means that you'll have less units actually fighting in the first place. And after the first batch of replacements, it will slow down as you would have to wait for more larva to spawn.

I tried to picture as many scenarios as I could, but it still didn't seem very abusable to me. With all things considered, I really believe it could work. Terran could fly production buildings to near the frontlines, and Toss now get warp-in. If Blizz could make near instant production of gateway units work, this could definitely work.

[zeratul11]

And after the first batch of replacements, it will slow down as you would have to wait for more larva to spawn.


yes, i don think it would be imba. maybe the zerg turtle has low hp and slow etc. abusive or not the only thing i care about is the unit itself, the look and feel of it. nice idea remy.

[paragon]

I guess it would always be possible to just change their larva respawn time or some other attribute to make them balanced.

[ShoGun]

ZERG for life, baby!

God I love those little guys, it brings me so much joy to watch them scurrying about, massacring and devouring.

LIVE FOR THE SWARM!

[Remy]

Oh hell yea, you got that right baby!

I love Zerg, I really do. It's beauty in motion.

[zeratul11]

Oh hell yea, you got that right baby!

I love Zerg, I really do. It's beauty in motion.

wow you really like zerg. 90% of the time i always lose playing zerg.

care to give me tips in small maps? anyway i can't wait for the zerg in game demo, i wanna know what their units looks like.

do you think the lurkers will return? if ever they will be back, do you think they can move underground now in starcraft 2? do you think its overpowered? anyone who can give me a good answer about the lurkers will recieve an instant power up from me. how about you remy? since your a zerg enthusiast. 8)

[Remy]

You can save the power up, I'll reply anyway.  Cuz hell, I love Zerg.

On small maps you should really take the offensive stance on things.  Constantly harassing with lings non-stop.  Short distances to enemy bases is a big plus for lings, and just Zerg in general.

At tier 2, you're faced with a choice with going mutas or lurkers, on small maps, opting for mutas will generally pay off better.  Although with careful scouting, if you catch your opponent with his pants down, small maps can be easy to get off lurker tech rush.  A Terran with nothing but one comsat is him with his pants down, having only one or two cannons or turrets at choke and nothing else is close too.  Even with choke blocked up, you can consider teching transport to drop lurks deep.  If they have NOTHING at all, then you know they're just begging to be lurk rushed.

If you plan on using lings extensively, invest in run speed upgrade early, otherwise tech mutas asap.  Keep producing cheap mineral-only lings to balance out the gas heavy mutas.  Depending on what you scout on your opponent, hydra tech aren't always a necessity when going mutas.

When going against another Zerg, if your early pressuring with lings is keeping him at bay but not enough to take him out, bring drones to build on his creep on subsequent assault waves.  If you succeed in containing him for even a short while, you've already won yourself the mid-game.

Hope this helps a little.

Now to address your lurker questions, lurks will most definitely be back in SC2.  I wouldn't even be surprised if they are exactly as they were before.  Lurks were a key unit to Zerg, in many situations Zerg just can't make it without them.

As for the underground movement aka tunneling, I would have to say no, as it would be overpowered.  No unit with true cloak(being able to attack and move full time under cloak effect, even if it's limited by energy) has splash damage.  But lurker splash isn't even splash at all, it's AoE melee damage in a straight line.  Lurk splash does full damage to everything it hits within its AoE, no other splash is this way in SC.  Meaning, all splash damage suffers from damage loss the farther away it gets from the point of contact, but not lurks.  All splash damage other than the main hit is very weak against armor upgrades for this reason because they are weaker than the main hit to begin with, but again, not lurks.

Hope all of this are satisfactory answers to your questions.

[zeratul11]

thanks so much. im very much satisfied and i think i can die now.

ok im going to try everything you said. mutas? only mutas? no guardian or devourer in small maps? maybe your right, guardian building requires a lot of gas. mass mutualisk! i never thought of that, i always feel that they are useless and should be upgraded to guardians which in most cases i always come up short. ok mass mutas! im going to try this. and mass lurker rush, im going to try it to, my opponent don't build much cannon or turrets in small maps i think im going to own with zerg now. anyway i always use hydralisk (no air units) on small maps with few lurkers doing cheap shots, but its always not enough to win. ok zergling mass too, im going to try all of these options in small maps. rush rush rush in small maps. thanks. i'll keep that in mind.

im sure lurkers will look and dig cool in starcraft 2. like i said its overpowered. heheh. but it would be cool tho if they can move underground tremors style..

thanks again but i already powered you up earlier so maybe tommorow. :good:

[paragon]

when going against zerg I get goliath/tank combo with science vessels as detector/support and a few valks if they really go air. And I usually maintain a small dropship fleet for rapid deployment.

[PowerkickasS]

if you do that then you're begging the zerg player to mass mutalisks. goliaths arent as anti-air towards mutalisks as you may think :P

[paragon]

if you do that then you're begging the zerg player to mass mutalisks. goliaths arent as anti-air towards mutalisks as you may think :P

Um thats why I said i add some valks. Despite some people saying they suck, they do in fact rape massed mutas.

[Hito]

drone:

i want the drones have legs since they look like stupid cars driving around


I think drones should have small wings, like a fly/bee etc. Would look cooler =)

[paragon]

drones did move pretty ridiculously. How did they even more anyways? They were hovering like the other workers but... how...

[Remy]

Zeratul11, lol buddy old pal, I didn't say "mass" anything. Even early teching mutas, you'd still have to make good use of lings. It's like choosing to box with one arm, "I'm gonna beat your face in with a million jabs, nothing else!"

If at early mid-game/tier 2, you can't get a GG out of your opponent with ling/muta, you'd still have to go back and ride hydra/lurker tech. Especially against Terran, you can joy ride with mutas all you want, but you'd better have lurks when it's time or you'll be sorry.

Guardians come later, they're tier 3.

[paragon]

If at early mid-game/tier 2, you can't get a GG out of your opponent with ling/muta, you'd still have to go back and ride hydra/lurker tech. Especially against Terran, you can joy ride with mutas all you want, but you'd better have lurks when it's time or you'll be sorry.

What about in regular starcraft where you dont have lurkers?

[PowerkickasS]

valkyries arent as anti-air as you think :P
even if they dont freeze. even if you can afford them
you'll most likely be dead before you even get a starport :P

[paragon]

I don't recall ever dying before getting a starport unless it was when i first started playing.

[Remy]

If at early mid-game/tier 2, you can't get a GG out of your opponent with ling/muta, you'd still have to go back and ride hydra/lurker tech. Especially against Terran, you can joy ride with mutas all you want, but you'd better have lurks when it's time or you'll be sorry.

What about in regular starcraft where you dont have lurkers?


I don't play non-BW expo SC. Never did. I started straight on BW, i don't regard the two as separate games.

And vs Zerg it isn't good to go too goliath heavy. Timing wise, they won't save you from muta harassment. You don't even really need them unless you know guardians are on the scene, but even then you can manage without them depending on how you play. But it's good to get a few for support, just a few though.

[paragon]

I use them for tank support. They kill whatever gets by my tanks and gets too close. I move up, siege, hold, move up, siege, hold... etc... until they are dead.

[Remy]

Good to have a few around, but M&M with a few bats generally make better tank support against Zerg. Goliath is just as useless against darkswarm, and when shots are actually going in, M+M do better damage.

But Terran really just have to have everything out there.

[Piretes]

Been reading through this thread. Methinks Zeratul11 doesn't quite grasp what you are trying to explain, Remy. As a recently self-educated by means of YouTube Starleague Zerg Player, I'd like to clarify some things.

What Remy means with Mutas, Zeratul11, doesn't mean mass them, move in and kill. No, one trying that strategy will either get A. Massacred by a Rush or B. Scouted on and counteted most severely.
My muta strat basically goes like this:
At 12 supply my 2nd Hatch (usually at Nat. Expansion).
Extractor right after, but maintaining 12 supply. Pump 3 drones on it when it's finished.
Spawning pool, maintaining 12 supply.
Now when your drones have 100 gas you should be able to make a lair.
Also, once the S.P. is finished, start making lings.
Make a Spire when the Lair is finished, and when this is complete pump Mutas.
All the while you should be harassing and scouting with lings.

Now what oen does with Mutas (at least in my case) is not a frontal attack, no no, but once you have 7 Mutas, bunch em up, assign them a hotkey and hit-and-run on the drones/SCV/probes. 7 Mutas should gaurantee a 1 hit kill (if every mutas hits once, which is why you need to bunch mutas). Never engage M&M, Marines in greater numbers than 3, Hydras in greater numbers than 2, Never engage Goons... Unless you are supporting your ground troops. Otherwise it is wasting your Mutas.
Move in with Hydras or Lings as you cripple his economy.

Hope you understand/Hope I helped.

-----

On the subject of Terrans, I agree with Remy. Goliaths really only are usefull when you need protection against heavy Muta or dropping. M&M&F is superior against Ling/Hydra, especially once Defilers come in to play. Once D.S. is being spread, it's Vessel time!

[Remy]

Well put Piretes, nicely done.  Seems like I'm finally starting to see people who knows how to use mutas.  Zerg starts to get extremely attractive once one learns to use everything properly.

I kinda have a feeling I would've had to do a write up myself later on if you hadn't lol.  No offense to you in anyway whatsoever Zeratul11 buddy pal.

I love the sound of "it's vessel time!"  It sounds very Power Rangerish, but in a good way.  Vessels rock so hard, they're the one thing that's always tempting me to jump ship to Terran.  Infested science vessel?  Please Blizzard, pretty please?  LOL yea right.

[zeratul11]

Been reading through this thread. Methinks Zeratul11 doesn't quite grasp what you are trying to explain, Remy. As a recently self-educated by means of YouTube Starleague Zerg Player, I'd like to clarify some things.

What Remy means with Mutas, Zeratul11, doesn't mean mass them, move in and kill. No, one trying that strategy will either get A. Massacred by a Rush or B. Scouted on and counteted most severely.
My muta strat basically goes like this:
At 12 supply my 2nd Hatch (usually at Nat. Expansion).
Extractor right after, but maintaining 12 supply. Pump 3 drones on it when it's finished.
Spawning pool, maintaining 12 supply.
Now when your drones have 100 gas you should be able to make a lair.
Also, once the S.P. is finished, start making lings.
Make a Spire when the Lair is finished, and when this is complete pump Mutas.
All the while you should be harassing and scouting with lings.

Now what oen does with Mutas (at least in my case) is not a frontal attack, no no, but once you have 7 Mutas, bunch em up, assign them a hotkey and hit-and-run on the drones/SCV/probes. 7 Mutas should gaurantee a 1 hit kill (if every mutas hits once, which is why you need to bunch mutas). Never engage M&M, Marines in greater numbers than 3, Hydras in greater numbers than 2, Never engage Goons... Unless you are supporting your ground troops. Otherwise it is wasting your Mutas.
Move in with Hydras or Lings as you cripple his economy.

Hope you understand/Hope I helped.



ofcourse i know what remy meant. mass mutas, but you still need to strategies and not just attack all of them in one spot or just rush them right away. i know that, im no noob. but i don't really have good styles playing the zerg (except lurkers cheap shots on enemy miners), all i do is attack build attack again. thats why zerg is my least fave. :-X

anyway your post was about the strategy and tactics part of using mutas, hydra and lings. and thats the next advice i needed. ok ok, harras peons using mutualisks (7 or more), dont fight any m&m and let hydralisk and lings deal with them as the mutas cripple their economy. first strategy i've learned for the zerg. ok im going to try it. so many thanks to you piretes :powerup:

[Piretes]

Glad to help Zeratul, I was just assuming you were in the same state strategy-wise as me a month ago.. ;).
Thanks for your appreciation Remy, and I've had the Terran nostalgia/envy too.. Nukes, Vessels, BC.. All lovely things... But when it's crunch time, my Terran skills are vastly lacking.

[PowerkickasS]

yay go the guy who reads the book without experimental practises wooo!!!!! experts > streetsmart
zeratul11 refer to my note :P

[paragon]

Good to have a few around, but M&M with a few bats generally make better tank support against Zerg. Goliath is just as useless against darkswarm, and when shots are actually going in, M+M do better damage.

But Terran really just have to have everything out there.

Ah well I was playing StarCraft where I have no medics and marines die quite a bit faster. So I use goliaths because they can take more punishment plus I can repair them. Generally have 2 SCVs there just repairing units.

[PowerkickasS]

Ah well I was playing StarCraft where I have no medics and marines die quite a bit faster

YES!!!!! how the hell do terrans do anything in the original without medics honestly....

[zeratul11]

yay go the guy who reads the book without experimental practises wooo!!!!! experts > streetsmart
zeratul11 refer to my note :P


ok. thanks.

[[LightMare]]

Ah well I was playing StarCraft where I have no medics and marines die quite a bit faster

YES!!!!! how the hell do terrans do anything in the original without medics honestly....

the marines and bats could just walk into battle and die a certain death?

[paragon]

Ah well I was playing StarCraft where I have no medics and marines die quite a bit faster

YES!!!!! how the hell do terrans do anything in the original without medics honestly....

the marines and bats could just walk into battle and die a certain death?

Yep. And you relied much more on goliaths.

Guy who just builds marines to defend their tanks from air in original starcraft: "Oh come on... god dammit not another one... **** **** **** ****... okay i quit"
Guy who builds goliaths to defend their tanks from air in the original starcraft: "Haha die ****ers -repair- take that ***** -repair- owned mother ****er"

[burkid]

Ah well I was playing StarCraft where I have no medics and marines die quite a bit faster

YES!!!!! how the hell do terrans do anything in the original without medics honestly....

the marines and bats could just walk into battle and die a certain death?

Yep. And you relied much more on goliaths.

Guy who just builds marines to defend their tanks from air in original starcraft: "Oh come on... god dammit not another one... f**k f**k f**k f**k... okay i quit"
Guy who builds goliaths to defend their tanks from air in the original starcraft: "Haha die f**kers -repair- take that ***** -repair- owned mother f**ker"

amen to that

[Remy]

Ah well I was playing StarCraft where I have no medics and marines die quite a bit faster. So I use goliaths because they can take more punishment plus I can repair them. Generally have 2 SCVs there just repairing units.


That is definitely goliath's biggest merit, that they don't go up like microwave popcorn when lurkers are around. But then you also don't see lurks in the original. I really don't know how things are in the original, never played it.

[SirBaron]

What the Zerg needs is a replacement for Sunkens. MAN, i just wanna get rid of them.

[Piretes]

What's wrong with sunkens? Nice damage, nice side effect (more room for your tech), regens health..and it's unique. I love Sunkens. And guys, when qouting, please delete everything but the part your reply is relevant to..

[paragon]

Why's that? They have a purpose and serve it well. They already kill marines very effectively, what more do you need? Something that one shots marines?

[Remy]

Sunkens are fine by me.

And yes people, please refrain from quoting unnecessarily.

[PowerkickasS]

i wish they didnt cost so much :(
_ _ _ _!

[paragon]

They aren't THAT expensive. But that made me think of something. With other things getting more mutations, maybe there will be a new mutation for the creep colony...

[PowerkickasS]

yeah they are....it's like the most inefficient defence arrggghhh just building one = a pretty big disadvantage already

[burkid]

i wish they didnt cost so much :(
_ _ _ _!

it costs 75 minerals for the creep colony and 50 for the sunken upgrade... thats only 125.

[Proxy-serva]

But that made me think of something. With other things getting more mutations, maybe there will be a new mutation for the creep colony...
i dont think there are a new mutaion of the creep colony..Its enough vs ground and one vs air

[PowerkickasS]

_ _ _ _! <----- = T R A P!
burkid fell for it xD
sunks cost 175... -.-
not to mention a precious larva =/


But that made me think of something. With other things getting more mutations, maybe there will be a new mutation for the creep colony...
i dont think there are a new mutaion of the creep colony..Its enough vs ground and one vs air

maybe they could introduce a technique that allows sunks and spores to unupgrade! would that be so damn handY!

[Proxy-serva]

i dont think so^^ i think u can uograde ur pool or something else like the house where u can make mutas to guards...[i dont know the english name]^^

[burkid]

_ _ _ _! <----- = T R A P!
burkid fell for it xD
sunks cost 175... -.-
not to mention a precious larva =/

oh you meant including drone.

[Remy]

175 minerals for 300 HP, 2 armor, and 40 explosive damage isn't all that expensive.  It's the toughest anti-ground tower.  It takes 100 zergling attacks, 75 marine fire, or 22 zealot attacks to eat through the 300 HP and 2 armor of the sunken, this not counting any possible regen during the process on the sunken's part.

Also consider the fact that sunkens require no additional tech, while cannons require forge.  Bunkers are also tech free, but require you to station marines.  No other tower would work for Zerg even if you could have it.

[burkid]

no, sunkens require spawning pool.

[paragon]

Sunkens do explosive damage? That makes about as much sense as fire being concussive.
Bunkers are definitely the most expensive to make as it's 100 for the bunker then 200 for four marines or even more if you put firebats in it.

[LimaBeanMage]

I never understood why sunkens did explosive damage. I always thought impalement ran along the lines of normal damage.

But in any case I think sunkens are fine. Four of them in a cluster can ward of eight zealots or twelve+ marines.

[Remy]

no, sunkens require spawning pool.


And might you be willing to share with us a few interesting strats playing as Zerg that involve skipping the spawning pool?

[paragon]

ha that'd be like terrans skipping the barracks and protoss skipping the gateway and forge. No static defenses, no early units. What exactly would you be defending yourself with when that rush comes?

[drewcbarnard]

Put your scv's behind crystals and block off the ends with supply depots....then hold on to your butt cheeks cause it's gonna be a rough ride ;D

[paragon]

they'll just chew through the supply depots and then kill you very quickly.

[Nikzad]

yeah and right after you lose and leave you get banned for screwing your teammates over by rushing to reavers :D

[Remy]

The only things a Zerg can make without making a spawning pool are: hatchery, extractor, creep colony, evolution chamber, and spore colony.

So, there is no "additional" tech going into making sunkens. Same with bunkers. But going forge as Protoss is a tech choice.

[PowerkickasS]

no, sunkens require spawning pool.

And might you be willing to share with us a few interesting strats playing as Zerg that involve skipping the spawning pool?

i got one ^.^

[Remy]

Please don't say drone rush.

[PowerkickasS]

you would have no idea ;)

[lilchibikun]

haha the ugly flying cars haha. u saw the gameplay video right? there are mutalisks. they still look like flying ugly cars (maybe with a new engine?) :)

[burkid]

how do mutas look like cars? they have wings and their mouth is 15 ft from their face.

[paragon]

no, that's their butt. Their mouth is on their head.

[burkid]

isnt the thing in their portrait their mouths? and isnt that at the bottom while their eyes ar on top?

[DontHate]

the mouth is on the bottom the head is on the top. i dont think they have a butt.
u can see from the portrait and the wire diagram. it shows 2 teeth on the bottom of the mutalisk and in the portrait it shows the bottom of the mutalisk.

the top is the head that has a eyes and mouth the bottom only has the teeth/mouth/throught.
check out the image
http://www.blizzard.com/inblizz/fanart/images/screens/ss042.jpg

[paragon]

no the thing at the bottom (also the thing in their portrait) is their ass. you've been staring at their ass the whole time.

[DontHate]

why would the mutlisk need fangs on it's ass? lol is that where the glave worms come out from?

[burkid]

so theres a tounge and a little critter in their ass?

[paragon]

yes... and they aren't fangs, they are spiky bones. It has a bony ass. And a STD.

[burkid]

ewww... anyways they still dont look like cars, lilchibikun.

[DontHate]

so basicly glave worms are their crap? lol the zerg are creepy.

[burkid]

no... they are critters that live in their crap.

[paragon]

they are glaive wurms. A wurm is a european dragon

[burkid]

its a wurm in the shape of a glaive. hence, glaive wurm.

[Nikzad]

But going forge as Protoss is a tech choice.


Is it necessarily a tech choice if you build it to make photon cannons though?

[paragon]

yes... you're making the choice to get photon cannons

[Remy]

Exactly, what Paragon said. It is a tech choice because of precisely what you said Nikzad.

Not all Toss players choose to build a forge right away early on. Depending on the game, it's possible for a Toss to win without ever teching forge.

[Nikzad]

ok i was thinking that tech was more like researching and going for citadel

[Remy]

Well that's tech too. I think you're thinking in terms of when people say "tech up" as a strat, as opposed to staying at tier 1 and making additional gateway and pull more units.

[Nikzad]

oh ok
gotcha

or like turtle and tech when people just dig in and go for higher tier units, eh?

[10-Neon]

There a lot more directions a player can go than "make units" and "tech up," as Remy said, there's also "tech sideways" into upgrades and abilities, and "economy" which involves making workers and expanding. You might even include "build infrastructure" which would involve making, say, more gateways, but not necessarily very many combat units, in order to be able to pump out large numbers of units in the future.

It can get a bit confusing when people refer to about three of these as "teching" ...

[Nikzad]

one of the things that starcraft helped me do was retain information in my microeconomics class

we were discussing how if a country is trying to maximize production in the short run, it will have less capital goods (factories, means of production) in the short run and more products or output

however, if it is going for long term growth, they will have less products and more capital goods in the short run, meaning that it gives up resources in the short run that it could have used to produce goods, so that it can make more factories and such so it can produce a lot more in the future

similarly, in starcraft, you can choose to build 2 gateways and 6 zealots in each, for instance, early

or you can build 12 gateways and build 1 zealot in each later on in the game


EDIT: to make it relevant to this section of the forum, zerg definitely favor more capital goods (ie hatcheries) and less consumer goods (zerglings/hydras/whatever) in the short run so that they can produce a lot more, much faster later on


Bonus 200 minerals for a nice post with very interesting points.

[PowerkickasS]

lolz!
because of your post im gonna create a new thread :D

[Rex]

Hey Sup dudes I know this is totally random but here look if this is put into campaign it'd be cool

(How the story for this can go) --> A new zerg brood comes in and infests a whole base becuz they had no drones :) it'd be awesome



http://mods.moddb.com/9329/dark-evolution/image-gallery/

[Remy]

A Zerg's desire~ ...some damn info, how about that?

I feel left out in my little corner, watching from a distance, Protoss and Terran players throwing little parties discussing future strats while sipping champaign. Die Blizzard, just die... or leak some sweet sweet Zerg info and all will be forgiven. We can be in love again oh my little Blizzy.

[FlyingTiger]

dude Remy at the Zerg party, we will all party like it's nineteen ninety nine

dun da-da dun da da

I'm thinking we will have maybe a peak in Blizzcon... a sneak peak... like a 25 cent peep show haha ^_^

[burkid]

you mean like my sister?
...did i say that out loud?

im so pumped for blizzcon! they probably are gonna officially reveal 6-7 new terran units, or will have a 22minute gameplay vid with them. and during those 22 minutes, show us some zerg!

[Dxun]

Just be patient a little bit longer remy, Blizzard always saves the bestest for last. And the Zerg party will have free copy's of SC2 for the broods.

[Remy]

I've been patient for quite a bit longer, now where the hell is Zerg!? I want Zerg info dang it!!

[BnechbReaker]

i've been haunted for 3 months by these 4 words - zerg section: comming soon

[Remy]

I understand your pain Reak, I understand your pain. :upset:

[BirdofPrey]

Those are horrid words they are

[longlivefenix]

i no this would be kinda weird but
what if you could combine 2+ units to create another bigger better unit?
like two hydras -> crazy ass hydra/lurker thing

also zerglings also being able to morph to scourges AND banelings would be nice...

[Star-Crap]

thats like templar ****. it would be ok for protoss but not so much for zerg seeing as how they evolve and not fuse.