The feel of the game?

[Annatar]

Hey there...new member here, and what's more, my first post, so please be nice :P

A couple of days ago I saw some of the interviews with the Blizzard development team in the context of the World Invitational in South Korea.

There I saw Chris Metzen talking about – among other things – both the dynamic and mechanics of the game, but also, in terms of this topic more importantly, the “feel of the game”.

Chris himself mentioned that every little unit on the screen, that being a “space ship” or a tank, had a story, a background if you will, and that was part of “the flavour of the game”, or “the charm of it”.

Metzen underlined, if I recall correctly, that it was important to retain this “feel”, as well as the game balance.

So, is this part of the reason you guys played the original – and anticipating the next one – as well?
I know that, for my part, the almost childlike expectation I had, when I bought the first game. I must have been about fourteen or fifteen. And the strange thing was that I almost had the exact same feeling when hearing about the sequel, watching the game play trailer and the cinematic and so on.

I wonder what constitutes this “childlike expectation” (or call it what you wish) and furthermore, what enhances it? Perhaps this “feel of the game” – whatever that is – more than the actual mechanics and dynamics of the game?

Hmm…something to ponder mayhap… :)

(I'm not sure if this is the right forum to post this in; it both has to do with units and the story to some extend, I suppose. So sorry in advance moderators if this is to be the case...)

By the way…sorry if the text is a bit inconsistent in places…English is only my second language after all… :)

- Annatar

[MrFrancko]

I don't think you have to worry about your english at all.

As for the childlike expectation I know how you feel. When I was anticipating the first game I was obsessed . Now i'm the same way. Then again, i've been this way for every Blizzard game. It's pretty surreal when you finally get your hands on the finished product. I have no idea why I get so excited about games but a lot of it has to do with the many memories I have playing the original Starcraft. I want that same feeling with the second one.

[Annatar]

Why thank you for the response. ;D

I agree...it is very hard to explain for me as well, as to why I actually do experience this childlike expectation - which of course in this sense is not meant derogatively at all... ^_^

And I also recognise that sense of wanting to relive or reexperience some earlier feeling or state that the original game - or games, stories, movies in general - prompted...

But I do wonder if all this is enhanced by that "feel of the game" or the game mechanics, or perhaps a combination of the two? I really enjoy to immerse myself in the story and general background of the game, focusing much more on the individual unit and it's relevance and place in the Starcraft universe, rather than the actual game mechanics...maybe that's just me... ^_^

That is why I was somewhat relieved when I heard Mr. Metzen make the notion of "the feel of the game", emphasizing it's importance...


Anyway, it's quite hard to actually put one's finger on what is it exactly that makes one enjoy and play these games...perhaps it's not even necessary to explain it...which makes this topic I made rather futile... ;)

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[Zoot]

There was something very polished about Blizzards 'adaptation' of the science-fiction genre to the computer.

I think a big part of the success of the StarCraft universe stems from its strong references to genre classics like Star Trek (the ever-roaming Terrans), Star Wars (the Protoss 'psi' force) and the Alien-series (the Zerg hive culture), which could also explain the nostalgic sentiment that many have towards this particular title.

[Annatar]

You sure have some relevant notions there Zoot, I must admit... :)

Nothing much to add from my point actually, other than agreeing upon those cultural (in terms of science-fiction that is) that you mentioned. I've noticed those references as well, also in the form of "dialogue" or expressions from particular units...Hmm, makes me wonder if perhaps there should be a reference of some sort from Frank Herbert's great Dune-trilogy in there somewhere...? :-\

Perhaps it is the case - although I have not examined it thoroughly - that there is a sense of nostalgia there as well - in the context of playing the game...but it could very well be that there is a sense of recognition there...which is relived all over again with the announcement of Starcraft 2, I suppose... :)

Other than that, thank you for the reply ;D

- Annatar

[Zoot]

Hmm, makes me wonder if perhaps there should be a reference of some sort from Frank Herbert's great Dune-trilogy in there somewhere...?

Inevitably - if not directly then indirectly through the aforementioned classics, or the Dune computer game. One might perhaps even attribute StarCraft's focus on resource management (minerals and vespene gas) to Dune's focus on 'spice'?

More subtly, titles like Blade Runner (the bleak Terran society) and Terminator ("Somebody called for an exterminator?") also spring to mind.

[paragon]

Star Trek (the ever-roaming Terrans)

Ever roaming terrans? They were "forced" onto three initial planets in the sector and then expanded to the other ones. They don't really roam.

Anyways, here's all the references:
Followed by
StarCraft Expansion Set: Brood War (1998) (VG)
StarCraft: Ghost (2005) (VG)
StarCraft II (2008) (VG)
Spin off from
WarCraft: Orcs & Humans (1994) (VG)
- It's a "craft" game, in space.
References
"Star Trek" (1966)
Fahrenheit 451 (1966)
Star Wars (1977)
Apocalypse Now (1979)
- "I love the smell of napalm." in both.
Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan (1982)
Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983)
Kaze no tani no Naushika (1984)
- Reavers in Starcraft resemble Ohmu
Highlander (1986)
Top Gun (1986)
Aliens (1986)
- dropship lines
Platoon (1986)
Full Metal Jacket (1987)
RoboCop (1987)
"Star Trek: The Next Generation" (1987)
"The Simpsons" (1989)
"Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" (1993)
WarCraft: Orcs & Humans (1994) (VG)
"Star Trek: Voyager" (1995)
- "State the nature of your medical emergency!" in both.
WarCraft II: Tides of Darkness (1995) (VG)
Diablo (1996) (VG)
WarCraft II: Beyond the Dark Portal (1996) (VG)
"Tenkû no Esukafurône" (1996)
The Rock (1996)
- Quote: You call down the thunder, now reap the whirlwind
Independence Day (1996)
Jerry Maguire (1996)
"King of the Hill" (1997)
Contact (1997)
Event Horizon (1997)
Starship Troopers (1997)

[Annatar]

Why, thank you paragon for those references...they are most appreciated... ;D

I'm currently replaying both the original and Brood War at the moment (plus some of those separate storyline-related campaigns and missions; Enslavers, Deception, Resurrection and such), so I'll be sure to look out for those along the way...

Thanks again...

- Annatar

[Zoot]

Ever roaming terrans? They were "forced" onto three initial planets in the sector and then expanded to the other ones. They don't really roam.

Either way, Blizzard officially describes (http://shop.blizzard.com/section3/?user=5Tybl7rBFGv3Gx/E2yGWuTIEq8Bc03xHJAOR7%2Bp7HSo=) them as "nomadic", which is practically the same:

"Command the nomadic Terrans, mysterious Protoss or the bloodthirsty Zerg as they wage war on the edge of the galaxy."

It probably is not so much a description of their history in the game, as it is a description of an innate existential condition.

[paragon]

I think they just meant that their buildings moved.

[Zoot]

I think they just meant that their buildings moved.


Whatever works for you. I'm not claiming to be an authoritative source on anything, but it is quite common to associate human unrest in science fiction (especially cyberpunk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk)) with anxiety - in StarCraft in contrast to the more balanced Protoss and the impulsive Zerg.

[MrFrancko]

Ever roaming terrans? They were "forced" onto three initial planets in the sector and then expanded to the other ones. They don't really roam.

Either way, Blizzard officially describes (http://shop.blizzard.com/section3/?user=5Tybl7rBFGv3Gx/E2yGWuTIEq8Bc03xHJAOR7%2Bp7HSo=) them as "nomadic", which is practically the same:

"Command the nomadic Terrans, mysterious Protoss or the bloodthirsty Zerg as they wage war on the edge of the galaxy."

It probably is not so much a description of their history in the game, as it is a description of an innate existential condition.

It makes sense that Terrans would be nomadic. In the Matrix, I think it was said best that Humans are parasites. We leach all the resources off a planet and move on.

[paragon]

well, at least they don't live on their ships for the most part.
Like the xel'naga, they are really nomadic as well as the dark templar before they found shakuras.

[Zoot]

It makes sense that Terrans would be nomadic. In the Matrix, I think it was said best that Humans are parasites. We leach all the resources off a planet and move on.

Exactly. It is a view that is associated with the philosophy of postmodernism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodern_philosophy) in which human civilization has realized that it is unable attain definite truth about anything and therefore is left with endless expansion and search for meaning.

There is, by its own method, many interpretations of postmodernism, some of which are fairly positive, holding that meaning is out there somewhere, but that we just don't know where to find it yet (think Star Trek and Star Wars). Others are more bleak and nihilist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism), holding that there is not and will never be any truth (think Blade Runner and Terminator).

Now, in the StarCraft universe there is clear hints of meaning - the mysterious Xel'Naga. The Protoss descend from the Xel'Naga and quite certainly has some place is their greater scheme of things. The Terrans, on the other hand, are of unknown origin and described as 'vagabond' - they wander not knowing if or where they belong.

Not that it make any difference - and it is just my interpretation anyway - but I personally like to have some idea of where my computer games come from when the bookworms bug me saying that computers are a waste of time.


well, at least they don't live on their ships for the most part.
Like the xel'naga, they are really nomadic as well as the dark templar before they found shakuras.


Maybe Terrans don't live on their ships, but it's my impression that, in the long run, they are always moving outwards, unlike Protoss, who are always seeking back to Aiur.

I don't remember reading anything about the Xel'Naga society?

[Annatar]

Why, this has evolved to be quite a reflective topic indeed...my thanks to you all for that... ;D

I do not know much of Xel'Naga society myself per say, other than that they viewed themselves as sort of "Stewards", who held sway over their dominion, observing and teaching "lesser races"; that be evolution-wise, technological, psionic, and what not...
This was allegedly the last or highest step in evolution; to maintain a "Stewardship" over lesser races...

The Protoss viewed themselves as "taking over" this responsibility; and among their "pupils" were the Terran...- in their view, that is...I cannot remember where I read this, actually...some of the Protoss (e.g. Aldaris), seemed to view the Terran as inferior and not worth the attention...of course, I do not know the thoughts and actions of the Conclave... :P

The notion of the Terrans always "seeking outward" and the Protoss always longing home for Aiur is an interesting one indeed...even the enstranged Dark Ones on the twilight planet of Shakuras seem to bear that craving; albeit it will cause them great pains to achieve that...I must think on this notion a bit more properly, I think... :-\

In regard to the thread and the topic at hand, I wonder all these collective thoughts perhaps form part of that "feel" I thought (or Mr. Metzen thought) about? A part of that "childlike" expectation, if you like? Is the Terran nomadic lifestyle perhaps a comment on today's world and life's condition? And that is what we recognise when playing some of these games - the Starcraft universe among them, and the aforementioned titles in the posts above - and makes us enjoy them?...ah...my head hurts... :P

Understand, that the last paragraph is merely speculation of course...just trying to collect all these posts, and connect them in some manner to the topic I had in mind...

Once again, thank you for your thoughts...

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[Remy]

Ever the humble poster Annatar.  Welcome to the forums.


Whatever works for you. I'm not claiming to be an authoritative source on anything, but it is quite common to associate human unrest in science fiction (especially cyberpunk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk)) with anxiety - in StarCraft in contrast to the more balanced Protoss and the impulsive Zerg.


I guess this is why I prefer Zerg.  That explains it all.

[Light]

the feel of the game.
if i would ever play sc2, i would feel ****ing great!

[concreteasflesh]

My first computer game was Red Alert. it was for me at the time the most undenable sickness ever. i was amazing hooked. after came Duke Nukem 3D and Doom. I honestly didnt know of Warcraft or Warcraft2 before i played Starcraft. so Starcraft was my first blizzard game. I feel in love with the game before i even played it or knew about it. I remember buying it at Circuit City one day, I saw the box with a protoss face on it and i got my parents to buy it, my dad being a computer geek face always had this habit of "im the alpha you lil punk, im gonna play this game apart and you can get sloppy seconds" i sat there and watched him play, after 2 days i wanted to try but nooo he didnt finish the campaign yet, so i broke my piggy bank and washed my nieghbors cars to get enough cash to get my own copy, it was pretty much the first thing i ever wanted, worked for and had the enjoyment of buying as my own. I WAS HOOKED on starcraft. played it for days on end, finished the campiagn before my old dad and even smashed him into oblivion on multiplayer :D (he didnt play much multiplayer against me afterwards) anyways what im getting at is that Blizzard trully has magic in their games, when Brood war was anounced i was drooling over it for months. then diablo II and then OMG warcraft3 !?!? Coming into the knowledge of Starcraft 2 its not so much that i want blizzard to make me the real die hard sequal and make it as close as possible to the original, but more the faith that i know Blizzard hits everything they make on the dot, every game they make is a standard and a mile stone every time, so even if starcraft 2 will differ, i wont worry cuz i know blizzard will blow us away either way. all i can say is everytime i visit www.starcraft2.com and www.starcraft2forum.org i make sure i have a roll of paper towels near by to wipe up all my drool :D:D

[PowerkickasS]

*drool*
i was shaking in excitement and glee the first 30 mins i heard sc2 was released/watching the presentation and previews =D

[Zoot]

In regard to the thread and the topic at hand, I wonder all these collective thoughts perhaps form part of that "feel" I thought (or Mr. Metzen thought) about? A part of that "childlike" expectation, if you like? Is the Terran nomadic lifestyle perhaps a comment on today's world and life's condition? And that is what we recognise when playing some of these games - the Starcraft universe among them, and the aforementioned titles in the posts above - and makes us enjoy them?...ah...my head hurts... :P

Good point, in my opinion. StarCraft seem to represent all parts of the human psyche - Protoss correspond roughly to Freud's 'superego' (reason and spirituality), Zerg to the 'id' (drives and desires) and Terran to the conflicted 'ego' in between.

Perhaps StarCraft is so enjoyable to play because these three aspects are so notoriously balanced? Would it feel as good if one of the races was made inferior to the others? Or if the races were not modeled after the human psyche but, say, three American baseball teams? I don't think so personally - rather I think the balanced symbolic gameplay gives us a sensation of fighting the wars going on within us.

Again, just a thought.

[MrFrancko]

This convo is getting crazy! I love it! Where is Dr. Phil when you need him?

[Itsmyship]

Hmmmm...SC has a lot of philosophy in it that I didn't realize until just now....I love these types of topics! ^_^ Maybe SC is in a way the modern-day epic in the same way that Star Wars is a modern-day epic

[paragon]

three American baseball teams? I don't think so personally

The protoss are the yankees, the terrans are the red socks, and the zerg are the mets

[Nikzad]

If you compared it to history, specifically World War II, you could compare Zerg to the Russians, Terran to United States, and Protoss to German

The Russians had inferior technology in many regards (not all, but many) at the beginning of the war, and they used the philosophy that if they threw enough men at the Germans, something was bound to stick (no offense to any Russians). This ties in directly with the Zerg, whose strategy is to produce massive numbers of units to overwhelm the enemy, but suffer great numbers of casualties.

The United States could be compared to the United States, with technology superior to that of the Russians (Zerg), inferior to that of the Germans (Protoss), but with higher production rates, which compensated for their weakness. The logistics of the US was pretty good too, which can be tied in with the sturdiness of the SCV. Germany had stronger tanks (ie Tiger, and King Tiger, although the latter never went into mass production), but the United States had many more tanks to replace those that were destroyed (ie the Sherman)

The Germans had probably the best and most powerful machinery and weaponry during the early stages of the war and relied more on their superior technology than their numbers (much like the Protoss)


how about that for a historic parallel? 8)

[paragon]

I think that's a good historic parallel Nikzad
Or going even farther back, The Romans are the Protoss, the Germanic hordes are the Zerg, and the Hellenic groups (greece, macedon, selucids, ptolomy's egypt, etc...) are the terran
Romans had the best tech and everything
Germanics relied on numbers
Hellenics were in the middle.

Granted the Romans crushed the Hellenic groups one by one and added them to their empire and crushed part of the germans.

[Zoot]

If you compared it to history, specifically World War II, you could compare Zerg to the Russians, Terran to United States, and Protoss to German


Not a poor analogy at all. Zerg hive culture is also reminiscent of Soviet communism and the portrayal of the Zerg infestation is very similar to portrayal of communism during the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare">Red Scare</a>. I even seem to remember a video briefing in one of the original games drawing heavily on the Red Scare-rhetorics, with Zerg colonization shown as a red arrows eating up one planet after the other.

Protoss are not quite nazis of course, but they have elements in common like their mysticism and strong zeal.

[Annatar]

Why, those seem quite good historical parallels Nikzad and paragon, both. I've not thought much about those references myself, I must admit. I was thinking more in the lines of modern/popular culture references...I had not realised the historial layers buried in the universe of Starcraft...I must ponder this... :-\

I also see - quite clearly - that I'm far from alone in my enthusiasm for the game; both concreteasflesh and GM_k displayed their love of the games - both the original and the upcoming - quite effectively...

Also, Zoot, the Freudian angle is quite interesting, I think...and plausible as well it seems...
Earlier you experienced a concern - and I've dealt with a similar issue - the incomprehension of "book-worms" - that generally do not realise the potential and the deeper layers of some video games - such as StarCraft...I think that this topic and discussion resembles quite the contrary...

That's not to say anything bad of book-worms of course...I'm one myself, I think... :P

[Lord David]

There was something very polished about Blizzards 'adaptation' of the science-fiction genre to the computer.

I think a big part of the success of the StarCraft universe stems from its strong references to genre classics like Star Trek (the ever-roaming Terrans)

Much of the Star Trek references in Starcraft are merely the following....
"Star" in the title.

The possibility of the Terrans being "Humanoids". (Essentially more than just mere Earth Humans, Ghosts would be considered part of the humanoid family, as they could possibly be from a humanoid planet, unless we believe the whole psychic experimentation concept...)

Terrans (As a whole) based from the Terran Empire in Star Trek. (Whose roots are strongly based from that of Earth)

The Terran Dominion possibly based on the Dominion of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

Several quotes from Star Trek such as:
The Science Vessel: "Ah...the ship.... out of danger?" (From Spock's quote in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan)
The Medic:"State the nature of your medical emergency!" (From the EMH in Star Trek: Voyager) and "He's dead, Jim." (From Dr McCoy in Star Trek)
The Battlecruiser: "I really have to go...number one." (Jean-Luc Picard, Star Trek: The Next Generation), "Hailing frequencies open" (Commander Nyota Uhura, Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan), "Make it happen." (Jean-Luc Picard, Star Trek: The Next Generation) and "Engage!" (Jean-Luc Picard, Star Trek: The Next Generation)
The Corsair: "It is a good day to die!" (Klingon Star Trek) and "Zefram Cochrane, is that you?" (Reference to the inventor of warp flight, Zefram Cochrane)
Arbiter: "Duras." (Reference to the Klingon clan of Duras in Star Trek) and "Gowron" (Reference to Gowron Klingon Chancellor in Star Trek: The Next Generation)

[burkid]

haha i love how this game has been out for 10 years and i still learn something new about it every day.

[PowerkickasS]

haha i love how this game has been out for 10 years and i still learn something new about it every day.

i know eh!?
since the story isnt just straight forward and the end + some BS in the end lol
and it's also pretty cool how blizzard characterises every single unit in terms of strategy, story, ai, behaviour etc etc just little tiny difference here and there

[paragon]

haha i love how this game has been out for 10 years and i still learn something new about it every day.

i know eh!?
since the story isnt just straight forward and the end + some BS in the end lol
and it's also pretty cool how blizzard characterises every single unit in terms of strategy, story, ai, behaviour etc etc just little tiny difference here and there

They neglected to do that in WC3...

[Annatar]

Hmm, I wonder...could it be argued, that the story for StarCraft was perhaps more complete from the beginning?...I remember when I bought the game back in '98, that the game came with a fair-sized manual, with quite a lot of background story for the universe itself, units, factions, and such...

I never got into PC gaming as early as either Warcraft I or II, so I'm not sure about this argument, but it seemed like they changed some of storyline here and there; and added quite a lot per Warcraft III. Perhaps they didn't realise what they got as early as Warcraft I. Or just didn't have the possibilities, technological, financial, and otherwise...

Diablo I came with a fair booklet as well, as far as I recall...with some legends and myths from the universe they were trying to create...

My point here being that StarCraft almost seemed complete from the first; and that is perhaps one of the things that makes it so compelling...

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[Remy]

Concreteasflesh's story brought a tear to my eye. So touching. :bigcry:

[Piretes]

Wow guys, y'all going deep into this I see. I don't think is has so much to do with WW2 (though the analogy was great and well worked out), or Roman times (the analogy didn't reallyt work out, the Greeks dominated first, then got beat up the Romans and eventually Rome fell to barbarians, all over soem 3000? years...) Going on, I think the races are more tied to strategy elements.
They all contrast;

Zerg: Weak alone, yet cheap, fast and easy to create en masse,
Terran: Weak alone, yet very strong when supported, with a middle-level cost.
Protoss: Strong even in small numbers, adaptible and costly.

(Some examples: A Marine can easily get beaten by two lings, but when you add a medic, you suddenly have a walking fortress. Siege tanks are hopeless vs close range, yet when you have say Goliaths protecting them, enemy ground advances crumble. Protoss adaptability: Zealots don't need numbers or support to succeed, they can really just attack anything. Zerg often needs backup, Terran needs support.)

This is the essence of the strategy. Most games have something similar to this.

[Zoot]

Going on, I think the races are more tied to strategy elements.


Naturally, the mechanics are - and should be - an important part of any strategy game. But only when wrapped in a good story drawing on many different elements and references like those brought up in this thread does a game gain that immersive quality which StarCraft had.

[Nikzad]

I don't think paragon and I were necessarily stating that we thought that Starcraft was based on historical events; rather that the strategies used throughout military history are used in Starcraft, and that races in Starcraft can be compared to specific nations during past conflicts.

I still have the booklet from the original Starcraft. I think I got just as much enjoyment reading it from cover to cover as I did playing the game. The back-stories and descriptions are so interesting that they just suck me in. I did the same thing with the manual for Age of Empires 2, brushing up on the history and evolution of different strategies and military developments through time.

For instance: Did you know that during the height of their power the Chinese developed a semi-automatic crossbow?

[Annatar]

Just like to add - in accordance with Zoot's last post, that I might have given the impression that I did not notice or care about the game mechanics and dynamics. Obviously they're fundamental in the game's initial success and longevity...
It just works immensely together with that phenomenal backstory... :P

I'm familiar with that experience with the booklet, Nikzad...sadly, I do not have it in my grasp anymore...I recently had to buy the game again since I by accident threw away my CD-key...it was a low-cost edition I bought this time around, and it did not come with the original booklet...luckily I've managed to follow some links from this site (from several posts that is), so I could immerse myself in backstory, units, factions, heroes, myth, all over again... ;D

And no, Nikzad...I did not know much about chinese weaponry development, let alone that :P

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[PowerkickasS]

:O it wasnt a mongolian creation? KNEW IT HAH IN YO FACE! =D
did you know zergs actually CAN stand a chance in small numbers? depends on selection hehe....

you might think WTF HOW!? ask savior :P

[Nikzad]

:O it wasnt a mongolian creation? KNEW IT HAH IN YO FACE! =D


Was that in response to my comment about the Chinese crossbows? if so, it was the Chinese, but the Mongolians pioneered the use of stirrups on saddles. Once started using these they could put their feet in them, turn around, and shoot pursuing enemies with their bows and arrows. That's why the unique unit for the Mongolians in AoE2 was the Mangudai, a special horse archer. It was a revolutionary tactic, as it made retreats more than just a turkey shoot for the pursuers. Mongolians were sick raiders...

[paragon]

For instance: Did you know that during the height of their power the Chinese developed a semi-automatic crossbow?

They also had a MASSIVE navy of MASSIVE ships that made European ships look like rowboats. They stretched out to Africa and Australia except they became very isolationist after that emperor died and they burned their own fleet and forbid sailing. Quite possibly making them the dumbest people in history. This was in the late 1300s or early 1400s. They would have eventually made it to America way before Columbus or any other Europeans.

[PowerkickasS]

we're too good for j00fatties ^o^

[Nikzad]

^ metamorphosis complete:
PowerkickasS has transformed into UchihaItachi0129

wtf are you talking about? you use no references and vague pronouns

[paragon]

we're too good for j00fatties ^o^

Are you commenting on my post? Are you Chinese? Had they expanded like the initially were going to and gotten to America before the Europeans then there would be no Americans.

[PowerkickasS]

im chinese but i classify myself as kiwi eh. i dont think like msot chinese do, and all my kiwiasian friends agree with me between them and their parents too lol

tbh i dont know much about my chinese history. all i know is yeah we were hardout adventurers and sailers and all way before the rest of the world. but we didnt look around to conquer anything though. and also that we were civlised a few thousand years before the mediterranean was :) (from what i hear of. im probably wrong actually) :(

[PowerkickasS]

^ metamorphosis complete:
PowerkickasS has transformed into UchihaItachi0129

HAH ^o^
power 2:1 coal
to be honest i dont even care about minerals or postcount lol. i dont even put my minerals in the bank >_>

[paragon]

Yeah. They were definitely into the whole conquering thing. Thats like all they did. As for being "civilized" they did have a pretty big civilization but that was completely based on fighting and conquering their neighbors and was pretty much like that for a very long time. Much of their history was in making south east asia it's *****. They also raped an pillaged Indochina multiple times.

[MrFrancko]

For instance: Did you know that during the height of their power the Chinese developed a semi-automatic crossbow?

They also had a MASSIVE navy of MASSIVE ships that made European ships look like rowboats. They stretched out to Africa and Australia except they became very isolationist after that emperor died and they burned their own fleet and forbid sailing. Quite possibly making them the dumbest people in history. This was in the late 1300s or early 1400s. They would have eventually made it to America way before Columbus or any other Europeans.

The Chinese had some intense inventions going on during their expansion. They were the ones who invented the trebuchet. Not to mention that Europe had burned through it's natural resources like candy but he Chinese had not only natural resources to burn but luxury trade goods out the ass. The fact that they were so powerful and are once again becoming so is no surprise to me.

[PowerkickasS]

we are a peaceful society filled with traditions you must adhere to and everybody should be happy with each other or else you'll bring bad luck and mal tse tung back -_-""

[Nikzad]

yeah the Great Wall was pretty sick too. They had a rep for keeping people out. But you can't necessarily blame them, I mean look what happened when they opened up - opium addiction went rampant and everything went down the ****ter.

ps - every time I hear or read the word "Indochina," I think of Ving Rhames from Pulp Fiction ;D

[MrFrancko]

yeah the Great Wall was pretty sick too. They had a rep for keeping people out. But you can't necessarily blame them, I mean look what happened when they opened up - opium addiction went rampant and everything went down the ****ter.

ps - every time I hear or read the word "Indochina," I think of Ving Rhames from Pulp Fiction ;D

Not to mention Japan took them to the cleaners and the rest of the world exploited them economically. They are just now getting out of that.

[PowerkickasS]

I mean look what happened when they opened up - opium addiction went rampant and everything went down the ****ter.

lol ahahahahaha nice one
ok we could stop talking about my homeworld now FOR AIUR
see the feel of starcraft has affected my mental wellbeing permanently

[Annatar]

Ah, I know what you mean, PowerkickasS...
I too, have been severely damaged by the StarCraft universe to some extend, I think...

The day before yesterday, I had a conversation with a good friend of mine, while I was playing - of all times...I vaguely seemed to hear him talking about something called real life...something stirred in the back of my mind at those words...just beyond the point of recognition... :P

- Annatar

[MrFrancko]

Sometimes the only thing to bring me back to real life is sex...

[paragon]

we are a peaceful society filled with traditions you must adhere to and everybody should be happy with each other or else you'll bring bad luck and mal tse tung back -_-""

You mean Mao Zedong?

[PowerkickasS]

i dont even know how to pronouce his name in chinese lol. better ask my mum o.o

Ah, I know what you mean, PowerkickasS...
I too, have been severely damaged by the StarCraft universe to some extend, I think...

The day before yesterday, I had a conversation with a good friend of mine, while I was playing - of all times...I vaguely seemed to hear him talking about something called real life...something stirred in the back of my mind at those words...just beyond the point of recognition... :P

- Annatar

omfg you havent played that game called outside!?

[Annatar]

Hmm...no...I do not believe I have... :)

- Annatar

[PowerkickasS]

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/7530/1173711544445xc5.jpg

[Light]

omg! im soooo getting that game!

[paragon]

[A picture]

Thats hilarious.

[Annatar]

So, I wondered if it would be possible to sum up this thread somehow, and tie it together with the initial topic…this seems innately difficult, since we’ve covered a lot of ground in our posts from the outset in this topic…For that I am grateful of course…it’s nice to get a good response… :)

I started out being concerned about the so-called “feel of the game”, and tried to define it somehow…we came up with a sort of “childlike expectation” in regard to the game. And also that perhaps this “feel” was separated from whatever dynamics and mechanics that the game offered as well…or perhaps not… :-\

This “childlike expectation”, in turn, is often accompanied by a sincere enthusiasm – whatever shape this may take – for the game, in playing it, anticipating it, and so on.

It was stated, that the back-story of the game, the individual units, factions, myth and so on, all contributed to the experience of the game…it might very well be what constitute what one would call “the feel of the game”.

Next, we covered some cultural (work of science-fiction, mainly) and historic references, that StarCraft might have – to some extend – roots in. At least in so far as having inspired Blizzard’s work to some degree. Here we began to see, that perhaps there was more learn about this game, that one might initially have thought to be, even if one has played the game for many years; apparently, there are deeper layers buried in here…

Next, there was a very interesting – albeit short – focus on some philosophical and psychological issues. Another testament to the fact, that this cannot be reduced to a simple video-game…there is a deeper experience to be had here…

This was followed by some very relevant – in my view – discussion about historical parallels – which may worked or not.

It was somewhat concluded, that it’s not either the supposed “feel of the game” (which is not actually clearly defined yet), or the dynamics or mechanics of the game, but rather a combination of some sort, that makes the game so compelling, and provides longevity…that being 10 years for the first game, and perhaps continued by the sequel…

Does this pretty much cover the thread so far? I’d like to thank all for their contributions. I think I pretty much got an answer to what I was looking for initially, if not more…

Thanks.

- Annatar.

[paragon]

Good summary. I think you've covered all the points.

[MrFrancko]

Good summary. I liked a lot of the contribution to this one. It's always fun to look back at Starcraft and then at other games we've loved from the past and try to figure out what made them so memorable.

[Remy]

i dont even know how to pronouce his name in chinese lol. better ask my mum o.o


I have a feeling that I speak better Chinese than you, even though I'm Korean by race.

But anyway, you from China(or HK), or Taiwan? I grew up in Taiwan myself.

[Piretes]

He said he's a kiwi ealier on. If I'm correct that New Zealand.

Very good summary there Annatar. I've always immersed myself in the lore of good games I play. I'm a real on and off gamer, but some games just stick (StarCraft is one of them).

[paragon]

yes, kiwi is new zealand.

[Annatar]

Just another notion from me... ;)

In regard to the aforementioned "Stewardship" that the Protoss held in their dominion...

I've always wondered about some of the comments between Tassadar and Infested Kerrigan during one of the missions in the original StarCraft, Zerg campaign. Tassadar remarks about Kerrigan's former nature; so selflessly sacrificing herself for the protection of her people, being concerned about them and so on. And he continues, that he's quite concerned that she's fallen so low...I cannot remember the exact wording of this banter, but it's a great one...Tassadar was one of the few characters, that could match Kerrigan in wit, in my opinion...sometimes he even seemed amused by her - "O Queen of the Zerg", and so on. Almost sounded insulting... ;)

Anyway, my question is this: how did he know her? Was it perchance due to the Stewardship, that he knew about the actions and struggles of the Terrans concerning the Zerg and otherwise?

Or could it be, that perhaps the psychic emanations innate in Kerrigan, made herself known to the psionic Protoss? Like a beacon... :-\

I've noticed, that in the disabled Terran mission "Biting the Bullet", in the original Terran campaign, there is some form of actual and direct contact, where Tassadar and part of his fleet fights alongside Raynor and "the Duke"...though, I do not think that those disabled missions are considered canon...

- Annatar

[paragon]

I always assumed he knew because he was psychic.

[Annatar]

Yeah, sounds plausible, doesn't it... :)
There's probably not any reason to make the storyline unnecessarily complicated in this regard, by explaining it by the Stewardship...so yeah...I'll agree with the psychic explanation... :)

I was just wondering...I'm replaying the the campaigns at the moment, you see, and so I thought this the right time to "solve this particular mystery", so to speak... :P

- Annatar

[paragon]

i wish i could replay the campaign. I'd like to remember what happened exactly.

[Zoot]

Tassadar and Kerrigan knew each other as old enemies. Kerrigan was in charge of the Sons of Korhal detachment sent to fend off Tassadar's expedition at Tarsonis. She was successful in this but fell to the Zerg shortly after as Mengsk failed to evacuate her.

[Annatar]

I just finished the Terran campaign this time around; so, hopefully, I'll get to that particular dialogue between Tassadar and Kerrigan in question.

But if I am not mistaken, it seemed like he was actually commending her for her previous efforts...although, to be sure, it could be argued that her current situation is a worse matter compared to her former...er...shape... :-\

Perhaps he only commented on that decline...

As Zoot pointed out, there was indeed some sort of contact between Kerrigan's contingent of Korhal forces, and the Expedition Fleet of Tassadar's...albeit not in terms of dialogue - that we know of, at least...

- Annatar

[Zoot]

But if I am not mistaken, it seemed like he was actually commending her for her previous efforts...


Perhaps. Tassadar refers to the two of them having met before - I figured that he refered to the incident on Tarsonis. But arguably defeating the expedition Tassadar sent to save the Terrans on Tarsonis from the Zerg wasn't exactly "honorable", even if she was just following orders. This is the dialogue in question:

Infested Kerrigan
Do you feel that, Cerebrate? The Protoss are here. On Char. They have been for some time...

Hiding.

Protoss commander, it was folly of you to come here. For I am Kerrigan, and I am Queen of the Zerg!

Tassadar
I know of you well, O Queen of the Zerg, for we have met before. I am Tassadar, of the Templar. I remember your selfless exploits, defending humanity from the Zerg. Unfortunate it is, to see that one who was once so honorable and full of life would succumb to the twisted wiles of the Overmind.

Infested Kerrigan
Do not presume to judge me, Templar. You'll find my powers to be more than a match for yours. In fact, I sense that your vaunted power has diminished since last we met.

Tassadar
Mayhap, O Queen. Or is it only that I need not flaunt my power in such an infantile test of will?

Infested Kerrigan
Foolish Templar. Prepare your defenses! I will come for you soon.

Source: StarCraft Legacy (http://sclegacy.com/encyclopedia/starcraft_story.php#e2_6)

[Annatar]

Thank you for that quote, Zoot! :)

Well, yes, he could very well be talking about the Tarsonis battle - between the expedition and Kerrigan that is -, I guess...

Your guess is as good as mine... :)

- Annatar.

[MrFrancko]

I want to replay the campaigns again but I got halfway through the terran campaign recently and it keeps crashing my system.

[Waller_Baer]

iv always viewed video games as interactive art
as oppossed to movies, the credits in vidgames never really roll
the 'dynamic gameplay' allows the player to time and time again relive the rush and the joy that is a well crafted game
to me video games are the tangible expression of the mind's wildest fantasies
using our reality as a reference point and launch pad, we blast off into the depths of anything we want

[MrFrancko]

iv always viewed video games as interactive art
as oppossed to movies, the credits in vidgames never really roll
the 'dynamic gameplay' allows the player to time and time again relive the rush and the joy that is a well crafted game
to me video games are the tangible expression of the mind's wildest fantasies
using our reality as a reference point and launch pad, we blast off into the depths of anything we want

This is definitely a good point for those video games that last and last. It's like living this story that you have a part of. Reading books is great and all but there is nothing better than feeling like you're a part of something special. Sure, other people play the same game but you still feel like you're in the story. I definitely felt like this with Starcraft and games like Half Life and FF7.

[Annatar]

A couple of good posts there! :)

I agree to some extend...in this game, I feel connected in a way, that perhaps movies, books and so on, do not achieve...I do enjoy both movies, books, and theater (and in the latter almost feeling part of the experience as well), but I feel like I'm having a personal part to play in the storyline in a game like StarCraft; my actions matter, in other words... :)

For example, when playing a Terran Magistrate or Commander, I genuinely (I use the term loosely) have a sense of actually being a part of the Confederacy, Dominion, UED, and so on...
As Zerg, the notion of being or playing a Cerebrate, is not as laughable as I thought it would be initially...I was immersed in the Swarm, following the will of the Overmind, and having fun with it... :P
Ah...and the mighty Protoss...to be almost personally invested as an Executor, first believing the commands of the Conclave, then to rebel with Tassadar...pure bless, I tell you... :P

Very few other games have had this particular quality for me...among them the Baldur's Gate: Child of Bhaal series...and mayhap Planescape: Torment...not that great games in terms of action, but full of great characters, storyline, dialogue...and above all...feel... ;)

(It's nice to get this approach to the topic as well...thanks.)

- Annatar.

[Itsmyship]

I get what most of you mean, and I totally agree with it. I think that truly great games are just another way to tell a story. For example, you could conisider Starcraft as a modern-day novel in the same way that you might consider Star Wars a modern-day epic, or any other great movie as a modern-day novel.

I get what you guys mean about being part of the story, I do this with a few games as well, but none as much as strategy games. Games such as Starcraft, Medieval & Rome: Total War, etc. make me feel like I have to be smart in the way I play and its not just a sense of doing the same things over and over again. I also can feel the same way with shooters as well, like CS and such.

[Annatar]

A modern-day novel, you say?...Well, it could very well be, I think...

When you just now mentioned Star Wars, I think it was George Lucas that actually said, that nothing had really changed - fundamentally - in telling stories. It's just the format that's changing, because of cultural shifts, technological advances, and so on.

He elaborated by saying, that there was really nothing new about Star Wars. It's just a re-telling of old myths and legends, drawn from real-world culture...I think that was what he said, anyway :P

But I wonder, while the telling of the stories has not changed fundamentally, has the experience of them, listening to them, reading them, and now playing a part in them as well changed? The discussion of the latter is the most relevant here, I think...but I can't tell if people in previous times actually felt as a part of the stories being told... :-\

- Annatar

[Itsmyship]

Well, the feel of actually being involved probably hasn't changed really much most likely. This I'm saying is because before we had the technological advances we have now, the ways of telling stories were either through the written word, the human mouth, and pictures.

Nowadays we have stuff such as movies and video games where we actually do have a part in the story and in the case of video games, mostly strategy games, the decisions we make effect the full course of how the story goes. Before now, people had books, which even in our times, you can still feel the sense of excitement and intrigue that comes from a fantastic story, which is the same way i felt when i read Angels & Demons (WAY better than the Da Vinci Code :P)

And to the matter of how stories have fundamentally not changed, it is true because the point of stories is to either teach you a lesson, inspire you, or to give you a sense of enjoyment, which we still feel from stuff such as Starcraft.

[MrFrancko]

Nowadays we have stuff such as movies and video games where we actually do have a part in the story and in the case of video games, mostly strategy games, the decisions we make effect the full course of how the story goes. Before now, people had books, which even in our times, you can still feel the sense of excitement and intrigue that comes from a fantastic story, which is the same way i felt when i read Angels & Demons (WAY better than the Da Vinci Code :P)

And to the matter of how stories have fundamentally not changed, it is true because the point of stories is to either teach you a lesson, inspire you, or to give you a sense of enjoyment, which we still feel from stuff such as Starcraft.

Angels and Demons is better? I thought it was kinda cheesy at times. I mean, Langdon falls out of a helicopter at one point and lives... weird.

As for stories today, it's so interesting that we are able to be a part of the stories that are being told. Whereas before video games, you were only an observer to a story. Now you become part of it and play out every scene, making it your own.

[burkid]

As for stories today, it's so interesting that we are able to be a part of the stories that are being told. Whereas before video games, you were only an observer to a story. Now you become part of it and play out every scene, making it your own.

and thats what makes blizzard great. they make sure theres a story and any side could win via balance

[Itsmyship]

Nowadays we have stuff such as movies and video games where we actually do have a part in the story and in the case of video games, mostly strategy games, the decisions we make effect the full course of how the story goes. Before now, people had books, which even in our times, you can still feel the sense of excitement and intrigue that comes from a fantastic story, which is the same way i felt when i read Angels & Demons (WAY better than the Da Vinci Code :P)

And to the matter of how stories have fundamentally not changed, it is true because the point of stories is to either teach you a lesson, inspire you, or to give you a sense of enjoyment, which we still feel from stuff such as Starcraft.

Angels and Demons is better? I thought it was kinda cheesy at times. I mean, Langdon falls out of a helicopter at one point and lives... weird.




Yeah, the Da VInci Code just wasn't as smart as Angels & Demons imo. The Da Vinci Code just seemed like it was made for less intelligent people...no offense to anyone who liked it!

[paragon]

As for stories today, it's so interesting that we are able to be a part of the stories that are being told. Whereas before video games, you were only an observer to a story. Now you become part of it and play out every scene, making it your own.

Actually, there were these things called "plays" in ancient times where people would act out a story. There was also this thing that was passed down throughout the ages called "real life" where you could actually do things and be a part of whatever you wanted to be, time, money, and connections willing,

[Annatar]

Why, there it is again...real life......you know, it really sounds like something I should know... :P

[MrFrancko]

Real life is totally different. Literature, plays, movie, video games all have one thing in common; they are all made for entertainment, which is part of real life and meant to be an experience. I was just saying that video games are a bit different in the fact that you are put into the plot to experience it for yourself first hand. If there were plays in classic times then that's an example of the same principle.

[paragon]

Some people use them as escapisms

[Zoot]

Long post follows - don't bother if the topic doesn't interest you :P


But I wonder, while the telling of the stories has not changed fundamentally, has the experience of them, listening to them, reading them, and now playing a part in them as well changed?

Another interesting question, in my opinion - it is basically the question which postmodernism, the school of thought which I mentioned earlier in this thread, investigates.

Up until some time last century, most human thinking has been based on the hidden premise that given enough time, the world we live in can be fully comprehended rationally, leading to the development of a plethora of religions, ideologies and philosophies over the course of two millennia, all claiming to know the one golden path to Truth.

This mode of thinking - referred to as "metaphysics of presence" by postmodernist thinkers - ultimately culminated in the giant clash of cultures of World War II, bringing with it the horrors of Holocaust, the nuclear bomb and decades of Cold War, demonstrating beyond any of doubt, that human beings can never be fixated in any one system of thought.

Moving on to the topic at hand, postmodernists contend that the "metaphysics of presence" construct stories (narratives) and attempt to fit everything and everyone into particular parts in that story. In the Christian narrative the righteous will go to Heaven and the sinful to Hell. In the communist narrative the capitalists will fall and the proletarians will prevail and so on. Taking a lesson from World War II, the postmodernists then suggest that we continually reexamine ("deconstruct") these stories and critically reconsider how to assign the roles - much of the emancipatory thinking which has been transforming society since the 1960s spring from this idea.

Now, as users of cultural products, like books and movies, we engage in a particular narrative traditionally involving an author and a reader. During modernity (prior to postmodernity, that is) the author would be regarded a sort of truth witness and readers would try to draw out a meaning which was supposed to be latent in the text, close the book and go on to the next one. As postmodernists, however, we might as well 'deconstruct' the relationship between author and reader by saying something like: since no one can be an author without having at least one reader, might the reader not be as much 'truth witness' as the author? And are the thoughts that the reader gets when reading the text then not just as important as the thoughts that the author had when he was writing it?

Similarly, might Oedipus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus) not just as well kill his father with a lightsaber in a galaxy far, far away as with a sword in Ancient Greece? Might we not as well express our frustrations in a furious battle between Zerg and Protoss as whine about them to a friend or a therapist? I think Annatar is quite right that the themes and 'motifs' behind the good stories haven't changed a bit in thousands of years - but the way they are told, and even who are telling them has changed (and in my opinion, improved) pretty drastically the last few decades, partly due to the influence of postmodernism which has deprived fine art the monopoly on decent storytelling.

Anyway, just killing time in anticipation of the next story I'm telling on Battle.net ;) Hope some of it made sense.

[paragon]

Might we not as well express our frustrations in a furious battle between Zerg and Protoss as whine about them to a friend or a therapist?

Therapists are dumb.
Therapist: Why do you feel frustrated?
Person: YOU TELL ME ****ER

[Zoot]

Therapists are dumb.
Therapist: Why do you feel frustrated?
Person: YOU TELL ME f**kER


Exactly - psychiatry is just another narrative (or more properly, 'discourse'), and in my opinion, not a very satisfying one.

[paragon]

oh and
talking to friends > starcraft

[Zoot]

oh and
talking to friends > starcraft


I don't think so personally, not most of the time anyway, but the gist of what I'm trying to say is that things are what they are - if people can't find meaning in a play by Shakespire or in their friends or whatever, it's only positive that modern media makes it available in other forms that doesn't force them to adapt to systems of thought which are akward for them.

[SirBaron]

I agree to some extend...in this game, I feel connected in a way, that perhaps movies, books and so on, do not achieve...I do enjoy both movies, books, and theater (and in the latter almost feeling part of the experience as well), but I feel like I'm having a personal part to play in the storyline in a game like StarCraft; my actions matter, in other words... :)
SC is especially good when it comes to the personal feeling, since you NEVER got to see how the Magistrate/Captain/Executor/Cerebrate looks like. That really helps giving the image that it is in fact you who is being spoken to in the briefings and that it is you who is commanding those armies (and you literally are commanding them, but you get my drift).

It's one thing to read books/watch movies about heroes, and another to be one yourself.

[paragon]

It's one thing to read books/watch movies about heroes, and another to be one yourself.

This is when you get a cool job where you actually would be a "hero" rather then pretending to be one.

But yes, not everyone can do this. Many people are delegated to boring desk jobs. Or retail.

[Trooper_Lozer]

Hey this is my first post. Oh and sorry i came in late but i really liked the discussion and made this account purely to join in. This "feel for the game" has gripped me as it has to all i think. I love strategy games, i play Lord of the rings, Star Wars, Brothers in Arms, and so on... but Starcratf has kept me hooked for what? 7 years? The Point is this game grips me somehow and i know that the sequel will be good. There is no doubt that it will be bad and from my experience with blizzard and starcraft i would even buy starcraft 2 as my last game ever. That is how much i like it.

- Trooper :)

[Trooper_Lozer]

Senator, you are right the Lord of thie rings game was fun, and it followed the movie very well. I just felt that after beating the campain that that was it. However with Starcraft its more of a, WOW let me do that again. It also is true about the starcraft mmo, as much as i think it would be cool it probably would of ruined it. :no:
Now i mostly play online but i am thinking of starting campain again. Oh and im sorry if i missed anything on this forum thing but i sort of skipped ahead when the chinese thing came up. :sleeping: sorry.

- Trooper :)

[Monan]

Agree with everything said. I am also thinking of playing starcraft campaign again. At the very least, I will play it sometime between now and the time sc2 gets released so I have the story fresh in my mind


hahahaha, that good, i think im going to do the same as u =)

[Nikzad]

although I have never played and never intend to play and mmorpg, i can safely say that a starcraft mmorpg would force me to buy it, at least to try it out and experience every facet of the starcraft universe that is available to me

I would prefer, however, that Blizzard make a 1st or 3rd person shooter of Starcraft. Not necessarily a ghost either. I don't know if someone has mentioned this before but would it not be siiiiiiick to play a fps as a marine? Just being in a big battle like the one in Overmind's sig would be so awesome.
For example:
Marine Commander: ZERGLINGS APPROACHING FROM THE NORTH, SHIFT BASE OF FIRE!!!
*you turn to see that the craters and rocky landscape which was black and lifeless moments ago is now teeming with approaching zerglings. All of a sudden you hear a deep rumbling and and the head of an enormous Nydus worm shoots 60 feet out of them ground and starts belching out zerglings and hydralisks to your left. Two ultralisks appear from the right, plowing through a squad of firebats*
Marine Commander: FALL BACK!!! FALL BACK!!! FALL BAAA-- *a zergling leaps on his head and impales him through the nose*
*you begin to run, along with your comrades back to base. Men are being tackled from behind by zerglings left and right. You come to a screeching halt for a split second and the enormous, scythe like blades of an ultralisk that is charging perpendicular to the retreat path just barely slices your chest plate. You continue to run, but look back and see two zerglings running straight towards you throughout the maelstrom of slaughter and cacophony of anguished screams and zergling chirps. You reach the ledge of a large crater and realize you have nowhere left to run and turn to face your pursuers. Just as you do, the two zerglings leap at you and knock you down into the crater, as you empty your clip into both of them. You land, unconscious, in the crater, under the dead carcasses of the two zerglings.*

This would be like the beginning, in-game video of the game, sorta like the beach scene from MoH:AA. The game would start when you wake up and brush the dead zerglings off of you and have to get back to base and step over all of your fellow marines who died the night before.

[DaygoWop]

@ Nikzad I agree with 100%. I was drooling over the anouncement of a FPS for Starcraft so u could actually explore the SC universe in depth. It would pwn every game created!

[Nikzad]

Thanks DW

and to Senator:
if you want a truly epic game, play God of War
God of War 2 is unbelievably awesome too, but the ending is kinda lacking. Maybe get it when 3 comes out and play them back to back.