Diablo MMO

[TheWorker]

Blizzcon and WWI coming up. We know for sure that there is going to be Diablo 3 announced but some people keep on thinking its going to be MMO which it clearly wont be and I dont understand why they think its going to be, but it gave me an idea. With a new MMO Blizzard could try and make it even better than WoW. They are skilled and have experience. Well lets get to the point: If there would be Diablo MMO, what would you like to see in there? What features would you change from previous WoW?

Personally I would love to see more skill based PvP and more emphasis on PvP overall such as Warhammer. Id love to see the world more dynamic. If Blizzard makes Diablo MMO more of a PvP based game then they can concentrate on PvE in WoW which is what WoWs good at.

[Hodl pu]

I HOPE it's not a MMO. But if it already is... then.

I would like to see nothing cartoony. Diablo is dark and gothic, so cartoon demons would kill the creepy feeling of the game. I would like to keep the game with a serious vibe. The Musical score has to be creepy as well and the colors should match the game vibe, so nothing bright and luminous. The game should be fast paced, unlike WoW. In Diablo, you run a lot with a group, clear rooms within a few seconds/minutes, but there is still plenty of action and strategies you'll need.

[Gasmaskguy]

Well, generally faster and with the amazing music Diablo 2 offered, as Hodl pu said.
I also think that if you press the mouse key ONCE, you execute ONE attack. It doesn't really feel like you are the one fighting in WoW, but rather that you're managing some other dude by pressing numerical buttons every now and then. Diablo is a game about clicking your opponents to death, and that's how a Diablo MMO should be.

[KuraiKozo]

I like diablo being a thing you can do by yourself. But, i also like the mutli player element. the thing that made it amazing was it's unique and ever changing dubngeons swarming with badies that would rift through walls, ram suddenly down at you frmn a corner, or spawn in enemies when you killed them. The basis of Diablo, the first and the second, was it's ever shifting dungeons. Yes, they were similar, but the fact they were always random with their unque flare every time is what made it a truly grisly surprise. Sometimes, like in the first diablo, there would be ghouls, or familiars, and it was never certain when where, or how many would show up. Sure, WOW and MORPGs can do that, but as for intuituve level design and ever shifting realms, forget it.

Diablo is a great game that pulls away from the norm, even if other games have treid the similar concept. I like Diablo being unique and ever changing, always a surprise. It pulls me back into playing it over and over again. I liked the first diablo game better, to be truthful. There was somethign generally spooky about trudging through catacombs and trekking through the abandoned church. For fighting King Leoric and his undead legions to slaying down Diablo himself in the pits of hell, none of it would have been as fun if there was a defined level. When you make levels the same it takes a level of enjoyment out of it.

There woudl be no way to do this with an MMO. because if you had it different each time, it would end up bugging the system when two different people are playing in the same area but the terrain is completely shifted.

But, if Diablo3 became an MMO (or God forbid an MMORPG), i would like the see the enclosed almost clastrophobic feel as the early dungeons in Diablo. As much fun as the openess was in diablo2, i feel it took some of the diablo feel out of the game. Even though there were still plenty of caves and pits and even the dungeons themselves had that feel. But the desert and forest took some of the feel out of it and it made me a bit sad not to be generally on edge while playing it. Being older i don't get the same fear playin, just the usual vigor of playing a much loved game that also happened to be the first comp one i ever played. I'd also, like suggested, expect scary and creepy music. and it's no doubt getting an M ratign so we shoudl throw out some dead bodies and pools of blood to add to the horror the original diablo game had.

overall i do not want to see it as a MMO, regardless of what is done to make it good.

[myrcutio]

Alot more dynamic elements in the world, definately. I'm still waiting for an MMO that truly has a living world, where the NPC's don't just react dumbly to the characters and give out repetitive quests.

I figure it will either be Will Wright or Blizzard that will come up with a setting where the player really can effect the world, not just follow a pre-scripted template. It makes me sad to see cookie-cutter characters in WoW, simply because it's the most powerful build at the time. Think Ultima Online with autonomous swarm agent mechanics.

[Kimera757]

I think a Diablo MMO would be too similar to WoW, actually. Some WoW classes, like the Paladin, were already heavily influenced by the Diablo version.

[Wlck742]

Diablo 3 definitely will not be an MMORPG. Why? Look at their current list of projects. Guess what one of those are? Wrath of the Lich King. That by itself is going to be played for a year at the least, and seeing as there's 10 million or so playing WoW, probably more. Blizzard's not going to make another MMORPG when WoW's their cash cow. That's just bad business. They're not gonna split their fan base in half, in possibly diminish their income that way. IF it comes out at all, it's probably going to be an RPG. In that case, Blizzard's going to have to pull of something really special in order for it to be considered among the other new RPGs like Warhammer and Fallout 3.

[KuraiKozo]

ohh, I neverthought of that, Wick. I just hope it's still a creepy dungeon crawler and it needs scary music!! like the first game.

[Gasmaskguy]

@WIck. We all know that it won't be a MMORPG, mostly because of what you just said. But this thread is about discussing a Diablo MMORPG anyway (and ways of making it different and possibly better than WoW).

[Remy]

As far as I'm concerned, "MMO" just means that a game has dedicated servers to support an always on multiplayer community. But anyway...

For the next Diablo, whatever it may be, I want lots and lots of baddies. I'm talking about a sheer flood of baddies rushing at you to kick your ass. And I want on-the-spot dynamic elements like, carelessly attacking the wrong mob can kill you outright, such as Zeal VS Iron Maiden or melee VS multishot lightning enchanted for instance.

I also want a fast game pace, unlike the crap WoW is. Manual attack is a must. But I wish they would allow any skill to be bound to and executed on any key, instead of limiting certain skills to be right-click only.

I want larger areas, but I would still like to see Act bosses(or area bosses) that restrict access to later areas and must be beaten before you can proceed. I would also like to see Diablo retain the story driven format, again, not like the crap WoW is.

One thing I've hated Blizzard for all these years(for both Wow and Diablo) is useless skills(or talents). Blizzard always include skills that are either completely useless, only exist as prerequisites, or only serve as a weaker version(lower level) of another skill that comes later. Skill synergy is great, but it is still no excuse for having useless skills in the game. Also, skills that are just plain not worth putting points into beyond the first few is just stupid. Some people might love "one point wonders," but no skill should be such that it is just automatically stupid to put more than one point in.

I really really want to have hirelings, aka mercs, in the next Diablo. Allow the player to equip mercs with various gear too, perhaps even more pieces of gear this time. But I'd like to see more mercs as viable choices, instead of most people using the Act2 merc.

That's about all I can think of for now. Oh yea, get rid of low quality items(cracked, damaged, etc.), what's the damn point with those?

[KuraiKozo]

agreed, Remy.

Whatever Diablo3 may be, i want some new elements as well. I think they took the general horror out of the game the second time and that's the thing i want. What happened to the dear old butcher that made me jump everytime i opened his door and he bellowed "Ahh, fresh meat"? or the adrenaline rush of hitting him and running so as not to get cleaved into a human-sized dinner? I know diablo is no horror game, but like all good games it should make your pulse race, which the second one really failed to do except in the hidden cow level which was brutally hard and has now scarred me for life.

Also, as Remy said, the mercenaries. In diablo2 they were basically meatshileds, even though if you got the exxpansion you could equip them with stuff. They were steal weak, and reviving them was costly and very pointless after a certain degree. They would just run in like heroes and then end up carved up more than a thanksgiving turkey. It amde me wonder why i even bothered reviving his worhtless butt since he was only gonna run in and die again.

I REALLY want the dungeons back. Likes Remy said too, bigger areas. But i want the old dungeons SO bad. no more giant open areas. sure, it was fun, but i at least one some dimly lit corridors with enemies that choose to swarm you like zerglings and leave you fighting for dear life. It angers me that they took some of the better elements out in D2 from D.

Spells. I agree 100% with you, Remy. But i really miss the old way of learning spells: magical tomes. Sure, specialized skills are nice, but i think they shoudl add some really unique or powerful spells that you can only leanr by finding bookshelves or random enemies.

Wow, this makes me want to play the first diablo again. the only probl;em with the first was it's slow waing speed. so I want the ability to run also in the third one!

[Meee]

Mercenaries that are actually usefull would be nice...
As for dungeons x open areas - it would be nice if we could get a good mix of both, but definately more and better dungeons than in D2. I agree with Kurai's nostalgia on that one.

I always have a hard time finding good equipment as it is, so I'd rather not add spells to that. I miss the old rooms with bookcases from D1, but random generators hate me too much. Also set tree skills help with character diversity, in first game you could beat diablo with apocalypse using a warrior (he'd have mana for 1-2 casts, but what are potions for? :D)

[KuraiKozo]

*nods* Agreed, Meee. I want new things, and new concepts, whatever they may be. I defiantely don't want it like WoW.

and yeah, finding the right stuff was tough. My dad still plays diablo2, and you shoudl see the stuff he has! Yet, not all of us have no life so finding some cool armor quickly would be wicked awesome. but it also takes the fun if it's too easy =P

[Remy]

I definitely feel you on the whole D1 dungeon thing Kurai. I would love it if they dedicated at least one entire Act/area to play like D1, where you just go down level after scary level. It could even be tied into the story where you had to revisit hell to kick D's ass again or something... Dunno, but I just want deep deep multi-leveled(and I don't mean 2 damn it) dungeons.

They should definitely bring back the mood and attitude from the first game, it was badass.

[KuraiKozo]

basdassness can always be reintroduced! here here!

[freedom23]

I have this intuition that you suffered a severe upset in WoW that you cursed the game and tried to regret the fact that you once played the best MMO in the planet made until now... hmmm?? if not then godspeed, i dont see the reason for hating a game that was also made by the same company,

definitely D3 should be a game that can outdone D2s success, so far i dont hate the idea of turning diablo into a multiplayer like WoW since blizzard is quite capable of doing what they want at their own will... but the facts speak for themselves as you've said, it seems that majority of the skills are quite puny and useless as you say but isnt every MMO like that... and technically a growing is a progress, so its just a norm for amateurs to be crappy for a while till you learn what you have to coz theres no such thing as perfect and thats what makes the games better than their predecessors....

D2 Hirelings sure was kind of stagnant for most players to pick the act2 mercs, thats also one of the most annoying things that bothered me.. the fact that there isnt so much choice if you want to be able to have a useable bodyguard you have to choose that only... Im sure that D3 will be more than this,.

Voilence has been a major factor for D1's greatness over D2 but the open world gave a new feel in exchange, perhaps there is a way to combine the two... oh and btw have you guys wondered in what hell of a way did Diablo get to be resurrected since D2 technically destroyed him 4ever.. unless he has Diablo jr lolz

[Meee]

From what I gathered destroying that stone at the end of D2:LoD could do about anything to the world including reseting it, creating a timeloop etc. So it'll be pretty easy to make a story with diablo or all three brothers even.

It would be really cool if the game started just like the first one - in Tristram, you go down the levels of Cathedral, catacombs and deeper and at some point there the story starts differing from D1 and it turns out the whole trip down was just the beginning.
If Blizzard did something like that it could be really awesome

[KuraiKozo]

i liked the irony6 of the first diablo. your character ends up becoming the new diablo. it made me sad, and the whole first game kinda pointless, but still fun =D

[Gasmaskguy]

Well thanks for making use of the spoiler tag.

[KuraiKozo]

well if you haven't played it by now you never will <.<

[freedom23]

Hey guys is the hellfire expansion for diablo, an official release or just a fan made mode??

i was really hyped back then when i was playing almost all of the characters up to the extent that i totally left wirt nothing better to sell... i played each character up to hell mode but in the end.. the only class that was able to par on hell difficulty for me was the monk at a level around 70's... coz of the splash damage staff attack

anyway if D3 will be released i want a monk who can do shaolin kung fu rather than puny staff tricks..

[Meee]

You call that puny staff tricks? He was freakin unbeatable in one on one

Hellfire was made by Sierra iirc, so not just fan made, but not exactly official either

[KuraiKozo]

he was unbeatable 1v1
i know becuase over the lan connection we used to have, eon would always be a sorcerer, i'd always be a warrior/rogue and i'd always lose xD

so yes, liked the magic casting class. i never really used it because i'm not so good with it, but i think it added to a lot of people who were really into magic and spells, like a lot of people are. and a monk!? come on. you can;t fight the forced of evil with your puny little arms made of meat and bone. they would freaking break when up agasint the touch armor of 90% of armor. The monk is not a class that should be in diablo, EVER. it's weak, and illfitted for the story/game. sure, it works in FinalFantasy (but as cool as it is) it does not belong in Diablo.

[Meee]

he was unbeatable 1v1
i know becuase over the lan connection we used to have, eon would always be a sorcerer, i'd always be a warrior/rogue and i'd always lose xD

Are we still talking about monk here?

[freedom23]

wahahahaha... technically speaking the world of reality is quite bendable when it comes to games like these... so a monk with other fighting skills besides puny staff tricks is quite a possible threat if it managed to be a unique class with powers that arent bounded by the laws of reality.. say, chakra energy? or some sort of chi that can be manipulated and used to enhance its fighting skills...

and about the weaponry, D2 was more comppetitive with its lore of various weaponry and some of those were fitted for the monks i say..

generally, i dont see a problem with any other class to be out of D3 since its quite an open ended world anyway with no restrictions of some sort..

[KuraiKozo]

Are we still talking about monk here?

nope, i was talking about the sorcerer/sorceress/

@freedom: a monk wouldn;t e cool in the storyline. chakra and chi powers have alreayd been run to death by various games and shows. I want somethign that sounds threatening. Plus, the sorceress alreadya cted as soemone using magic and magic is a lot better than heightenend attacks. This isn;t naruto, i like Diablo on it's level of maturity, not implying kid elemts. not saying the monk is a kid element, only that it's stuck in liek a million little kids' shows. i would know, my sis is ten. I want really any class, but the monk sounds kinda ill fit for this game <.<

[freedom23]

It varies on every1s perception about the monk.. it takes a hell amount of years and discipline to make one, so i dont see why is it such a childish thing for you... perhaps it was just a bit misused as a generic profession in other games or shows but the fact that its one of the most proficient martial arts ever definitely doesnt prove that its childs play..

The D2 assassin class is also most comparable to the monk.. I didnt intend on insisting a monk class for d3 but i just want to give it a fighting chance against demons coz technically they are on the lawful side of the force...

Im quite unsure if Diablo was intended for matured discression coz it was like for general pg13 type of game especially the D2LOD.... even my 4 & 6 yr old female nieces are playing them (sorceress n assassin) It was candy for the eyes... perhaps it was just toned down so much, unlike the original wherein a few steps within the church would give you a big creep especially when you see the slaughterhouse of the butcher...

Perhaps it wouldnt be appropriate for a storyline, possibly right coz most of the classess are born of the western side, so im guessing that there will be also no other classess that are born from the east side will be there too... anyway beating demons arent only about magic.. its common to see a war with the frontliners with the support attackers, raiders, and casters/nukers, so i dont see a reason not seeing a heightened attack of any sort being less better than magic..

[KuraiKozo]

lawful side of the force...
Star Wars convention thatta way -->

Im quite unsure if Diablo was intended for matured discression coz it was like for general pg13 type of
he Box says M on it for a reason.

even my 4 & 6 yr old female knees are playing them
If you can play with your knees, all power to you. but if you mean your nephews or nieces, yes. Little kida play violent games all the time. that doesn't change the rating posted on the box FYI. maybe their parents should be respinsible and regulate what they play.

Perhaps it wouldnt be appropriate for a storyline, possibly right coz most of the classess are born of the western side, so im guessing that there will be also no other classess that are born from the east side will be there too
thank you for answering your own question and proving my point. let's move on.

[freedom23]

i bet you didnt see this coming!! nyahahaha

Your point is just a mere speculation as of now, given the fact that, the Diablo world was meddling with the east (middle-east) and that it also just gave a thought that a world with one Hell doesnt mean that only the people on the westside of the planet can take over the responsibility of being the Hero... its generally a wold threat and every1 is at call for aid...

hah! take that.. lil'imp

[Meee]

We're talking about "eastern classes" as in those of easter origin in Real - our world. In game you visit east in D2 (after crossing the desert) and I don't remember seeing any monks or ninjas there, have you seen any?

[freedom23]

its rather a mystery.. since the assasins class are groups of shadow hunters.. and "martial arts skills, and traps are generally a ninja's cup of tea

And actually the desert mercenaries are also knowned as sand raiders...

[ijffdrie]

well, i guess you are all going to kill me for this, but here it goes: i really like AV in WOW, but not because of its size or bosses, but because you actually can support NPC troops. This was also so in a few custom w3 maps. i would like this idea to be implemented in the d2 battlegrounds, where you are around to support your army(either by supplying them, or dropping bombs, or using siege weapons) and you are not that much stronger than a NPC soldier

[Hodl pu]

My mercenary was helpful. I had to buy elite gear for him though, but he pretty much was able to manage on his own. Perhaps being able to give commands to your merc might be a useful aspect for the new Diablo. After all, mercenaries weren't meant to be the super strong heroes, the player was.

[freedom23]

makes sense.. but maybe the penalties can be adjusted for your merc when he/she dies coz its a real money burner when he dies at a high level continously..

[Remy]

i dont see the reason for hating a game that was also made by the same companyI don't see the reason for not hating a bad game just because it's made by a specific developer. Big name companies make and/or publish crap games all the time. But anyway...

What do you all think about advanced classes that are not available initially? I was toying with that thought. Late-game classes that are only available to you when you hit the requirements, such as beating the game in Hell/NightMare, reaching a certain level, or something else. There are so many possibilities and different paths that can be taken with that. Such as your character gets to keep all/part/none of the skills, or whether the available late-game classes will be specific to each class or if they're universal. No matter the specific implementation, I think it could add some meaning to leveling fresh characters when you've tried every class, beyond just the reason of having messed up like 1 point in stats or skills.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

[ijffdrie]

i had another idea: No classes at all, through the game you ally yourself with factions and empires and so on, and if they like you enough they give you an extra ability

[KuraiKozo]

that's be cool drie, i'd want the ability to choose a path of your own though and having decisions make you differe.t now it just sounds like an RPG XD

[BirdofPrey]

I liked how they did it in Diablo where you pick up spellbooks and learn from then

All of the classes could use all of the skills

[Remy]

How about a mix of everything? Preset skill trees specific to each class, with some extra skills attainable only through faction alignment, and a few skills that are usable by any class learned only from tomes that are extremely rare drops in the game. Perhaps limit the number of secondary skills(faction and/or tome skills) that each character can learn/keep to encourage diversity.

[KuraiKozo]

good idea Remy, i wish you worked for blizzard =(

[ijffdrie]

i wish we all worked for blizzard :P

[Major Willy]

What I want in Diablo 3:
Diablo 2-like Battle.Net. Pick your game, enter, and have a player limit of around 10.
World of Warcraft graphics or even better.
All the Diablo 2 classes.
1 - 3 new classes.
Two expansion packs.
Cow levels.
A level limit on games. I hate being rushed. I'd rather play through and enjoy the game, thank you Mr. Level 99 Paladin.
Unlockable hero classes for all existing ones.

What I don't want in Diablo 3:
A World of Warcraft clone.

[KuraiKozo]

amen willy!!!

[ijffdrie]

you do reallize were talking about an MMORPG here willy?
not an ordinary ORPG?

[freedom23]

@remy

it makes sense... a lot of sense.... having put that into thought its quite tiring when you get to be at levels where you almost spend an incalculable time just to at least put that 1 skill point and 5 statpoints in that character of yours which sometimes really is pointless if you are in the level where you have already accomplished all levels of difficulties... so if possible i also would like to have some flavor like that to make things more exiting.. or perhaps even a further broad storyline with numerous quests like WoW.. Im also having conflicts if which genre will D3 be best suited... maybe someone should start a poll for us to see which is the communitys much preferred for this game... RPG or MMO or RTS??? (^_^) why not??

[Kaaraa]

What I'd want to return to D3:
- Single or multiplayer
- Live action attacking/casting
- endless swarms of units coming to kick your ass

What I'd like to see changed:
- gender and race selection with class.
- broadening of the Sorcerer/-ess abilities, not just the elements
- set amount of maps: One thing I like about RPGs is exploring every inch of the terrain for two reasons - so I can admire the scenery, and so I have the map recorded forever. The everchanging landscape of Diablo was a bit annoying. I propose a set number of different layouts for each area.

[Meee]

Set maps is a big NO for diablo. Not only this was always one of it's distinguishing features, it greatly helps replayability. Also it's not like you can't explore terrain in diablo (I did that ;p).
I'd like if they somehow changed the monster respawn system though. In 1 if you felt underleveled and couldn't go on, you had to start a new game; in 2 you had to find portals to make any progress (which was extremely annoying if you had limited time for playing), it would be great if they managed something between that, so that you could always grind more if you wanted, but didn't have to plow through the same monsters if you didn't find portal

[johnnyxp64]

Paris will Be Diablo3 Clasic you will see!

there is no way for blizzard to kill its own WoW incomming source of money right now.no way.

diablo3 will be like Titan Quest-Immortal throne(amazing game by the way)
with B.net support, blizzard knows how to handle Networks now Very well. bnet will be peace of cake for them compaired to WOW network demands.

no way to be mmo. untill for the next 4 years forget it!

[TyReaper]

WoW is the Diablo MMO... The talent trees in WoW were taken almost directly from Diablo and expanded. The gear is VERY similar. All the Diablo classes are represented. WoW is just Diablo +50. It's just more.
-Bigger bosses
-Bigger groups
-Bigger world
-More spells
-Just generally MORE

You get the point.

Let's face it, we've all been addicted to something that is in essence a cartoony diablo set in the Warcraft universe. Is it slower? Very much so. WoW is a thinking man's game, it's not all about *click click click click* and that is where they differ.

As for the topic at hand, I'd like to see what Blizzard wants to do with a Diablo MMO. They'vbe never gona wrong on a franchise before, so I'm sure whatever they come up with will be 4000x better than almost anything we can conjure up.

[Remy]

WoW is a thinking man's game, it's not all about *click click click click* and that is where they differ.I'm sorry, but that just made me laugh.

You're right, WoW is different. WoW does all the clicking for you. In WoW, you don't even have that *click click click click*, you are just left with pressing the same few hotkeys every now and then based on cooldown. All of that takes a lot of careful thinking, yeah OK. WoW is a slow game for one reason and one reason only: Blizzard made it as big of a time sink as they can get away with to suck up all the subscription money out of you for as long they can.

It's fine that you want to drown in your own fantasy about how WoW is a deep and thoughtful game, I'm happy for you. But please don't spill nonsense about how WoW is everything Diablo is and then some. Just because Blizzard recycled Diablo game design, doesn't make WoW Diablo, and it most certainly doesn't make WoW better. For one, WoW has very little variations per class that are actually viable. It's usually only about two or three viable builds per class. For instance, for the longest time, the only viable build of Hunters was MM, you couldn't stray away from it because two of three Hunter talent trees sucked ass. I've stayed away from WoW for over a year now, but I still very much doubt that there is such a thing as a viable Survival Hunter build. And that is just one example.

I'm gonna take a wild guess that many others would have played or is currently playing WoW, like me, have also played Diablo. Even though WoW has a huge subscription base atm, it says nothing about the quality of game content. Most of that is just casual users would've had very little prior experience in online gaming, rest are all hardcore end-game raiders who's gotten too deep to snap out of it. For every one person I've seen praising WoW, I've seen a few more who've played it and hate it. I seriously doubt that WoW being a "thinking man's game" is the reason why people like me walked away from WoW with a foul taste left in our mouths. Even my non-hardcore-gaming wife thinks Diablo is a much better than WoW, and she played WoW first. I don't know about anyone else, but that really tells me something.

[ijffdrie]

i have to agree with remy here, diable is much tougher than WOW(i played WOW for over a year), you must rmember how big the difference in enemy numbers is between the two

[TyReaper]

I suppose WoW is only tough for those that get to the end game content. Which as was previously mention, is a very minimal amount of people. Sunwell is the hardest raid ever. I've NEVER seen boss encounters like them in my MMO days. You really have to be the best of the best to defeat Kil'Jaeden. And as for Diablo being harder? Depends on how you judge difficulty. If it's by sheer volume of mobs, then yeah; Diablo 2 will eat WoW for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. But keep in mind, if you pull four mobs, there is a 75% chance you will die in WoW, so you kind of have to weight things accordingly. In Diablo, four mobs is laughable.

I'm just saying don't call WoW a no-brainer. Look up the strategies to the Kael'thas fight, or Mother Sharazz. Or M'uru. These fights are the most complex things I've done in any game. Hands down.

But this is neither here nor there when it comes to the topic at hand so I'll drop it.

[ijffdrie]

could be, i only reached lvl 57,
but i dont judge by the sheer number of mobs, i judge by the difference between a mob and the player and their numbers.
if a group of mobs in WoW hit you all at the same time(with the small groups) you survive, if the same happens in diablo(with a larger group) than you are screwed
( i dont know if this applies to high levels in WoW and Diablo though)

[TyReaper]

It does apply in WoW.
For example, if you pull aggro on a trash mob in even an instance like Gruul's Lair, considered a cake walk by most standards, you will die. That's one mob. They hit for around 8k on clothies, which is almost certain death for priests. There is a lot more to WoW than I care to explain to make a meaningless point. Suffice to say, WoW is a beast with many faces, you saw the softer side of it. Honestly, the boring side of it.
Wow is a beautiful game at 70 and if you're in a peaceful guild that is very talented at PvE...good luck finding that though lol.

[Remy]

The opening topic of this thread wasn't "WoW sucks because..." No one was really saying anything(at least in this thread) about how WoW is a bad game. It was just slightly insulting to have someone go "you silly people discussing about a possible next-gen Diablo, it's already been out for the longest time." Omg, we've never realized WoW recycled stuff from Diablo, silly us. I think if it was more or less a similar game, some of us would've noticed.

I played WoW since beta up to I think about the end of 2006 or beginning of 2007. And in my personal experience, WoW is in no way Diablo. WoW recycled stuff from Diablo, yet it's still not a better game, that's why there is still heavy interest in another Diablo game. You see a similar situation where SC fans laugh at WC3 after playing it, even though it was the next RTS game from Blizzard that recycled some stuff from SC.

Difficulty also doesn't translate into depth. If that was the case then Diablo would be one of the deepest games playing untwinked in Hell on Hardcore running into Multishot Lightning Enchated with multiple immunities and having Conviction or Curses around. Truth is, difficulty doesn't mean depth. Most games back in the day(80s and early 90s) were loads harder than games today, but they often had very little depth. Difficulty is also an easly adjustable factor, game developers can simply boost or cut enemy stats by X% and instantly tweak difficulty. Playing the same game on a higher difficulty setting doesn't make it a deeper game. Difficulty hardly ever means squat.

If Blizzard with most of its employees working on WoW couldn't even tweak some numbers so some of the elite mobs could deal some high enough damage to kill players once in a while, then they would really need to shoot themselves in the head. Like I said before, there is very little freedom in WoW. Even end-game content is about going textbook specs and executing the same strategies specific to each instance. There is very little freedom in how you spec(build) your toon and have it be still viable, and there is also very little freedom in how you tackle each instance. Go spec a Survival Hunter in WoW and get accepted in a lvl 70 raid as one, then I'll eat my own words.

Not only that, there isn't even any party or group mechanic. In WoW, it's all about everyone having the "correct" spec(talent points spent based on the public standard), having reasonably up-to-date gear, and everyone just doing their own damn thing based on their class/spec/type. Tank specs just spam out skills with aggro bonus, healers spam heal and HoTs, DDs just spam their highest damage skill every cooldown cycle, sometimes easing off a bit if the MT has trouble holding aggro, and then there is buffing every now and then. By comparison, in FFXI, without reasonably coordinated efforts skill chains and magic bursts can't be pulled off, and without SCs and MBs, you can't even really level past the 20s(lvl cap at 75). Meaning, you can't just do your own thing, you need to do things based on what other party members do and when. There are also experience chains that reward parties that put a bit of thought and planning into their hunting and have the skills to pull it off. FFXI is also 40x harder than WoW, but that isn't a big deal since it is widely accepted that WoW is one of the easiest MMORPGs ever.

What does all this mean? WoW isn't a difficult game, not by a long shot. WoW doesn't deliver as the "next Diablo," not even when only looking at MMORPG genre. Whether WoW is an enjoyable game depends on each individual. Just don't try to say that WoW is Diablo, because it isn't.

[TyReaper]

Sure you can o your own thing in WoW.
I wasn't going to reply to your comment until you started bashing on it...ignorance.
You don't just spam your highest damage skill. You don't spam your best heal, at least you got the tanking part right =/.
Healing is the hardest experience I've had in any game. You HAVE to work together with your other healers in any 25 man raid. I'm not talking about Cake walk Gruul and SSC and TK, which I'm sure almost no one on these boards has seen but me and a select few, I mean Black Temple, Hyjal, and Sunwell. The party mechanics aren't there until you start to think about things. Say a warlock is your main DPS, and he suddenly runs out of mana with the boss at 30%, that's a wipe. The Kael'Thas fight is an excellent example. The tanking and kiting patterns in that fight are VERY complex. If one person misses a tank pattern, a lot of damage will ensue, meaning overheals, and a probable wipe. It's not about how do I interact with my team mates to kill this? in WoW, it's more about what do I do on my own to help as a whole? And as to your whole survival spec challenge, survival is a PvP spec and would be pointless in a raid. Go marks, the gear is the same =/ fail challenge.
You want to talk about depth? Nine classes. Three specs for each class. Over 3000 quests front to back. I have three characters with over 20 days played time. The thing you get in WoW that Diablo will never replicate and honestly never shoul is the ability to goof around. Don't try to justify that you can do it in Diablo...it's nowhere near as entertaining as in WoW.

Point made, I'm done hijacking this thread to just glorify WoW. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Remy]

I wasn't going to reply to your comment until...Why not? Nothing sure has stopped you from busting out the first time bashing Diablo and putting WoW players up on their pedestals playing the "thinking man's game." Ignorance, really? Is that what we call that kind of behavior?

OMG, really!? Over 3000 quests? Did you really expect only a handful when Blizzard is trying to suck out $15/month from you for as long as they can? Oh, wait, but aren't 1000 of them "go here and talk to so and so" and another 2000 "kill X number of Y mob or collect X number of item Y?" Wow, that's incredibly deep content.

Ability to goof around, why, that's stellar! Because when I'm not actually playing a game for its content, I love to leave it on and do irrelevant things in it to waste my life away, why yes! People praising WoW talk about it as if it was a life style, not a game. The WoW lovers believe that living WoW is cool and as if WoW was first and best on everything. Why didn't you mention polygonal 3D graphics and fully colored skill icons while you were at it? And you talk as if mana management in group healing was something invented in WoW. Not to mention you pretty much agreed that there is basically no group/party mechanics in WoW, and it's all about memorizing specific sets of strategies for each dungeon.

Games like FFXI and GW at least have "missions"(different from quests) that tie the player into the overarching story, even with cutscenes to remind you from time to time that there is a story beneath all the gameplay. 95% of WoW lore delivered in-game is pure crap and instantly forgettable. A few chain quests are enjoyable, but still doesn't immerse you into any good story telling. There really isn't much "RP" in WoW's MMORPG, it's just one ginormous time sink.

In defending WoW's incredible depth, you can at least try more solid arguments like how party roles are flexible in WoW, instead of stating statistical BS like 9 classes 3 talent trees(saying 3 specs in your case is incorrect because 3 trees does not mean 3 specs) or how you can "goof off." In WoW, classes can spec differently to take on different roles in parties. Priests can spec shadow to be DD instead of healer, resto Druids can spec to tank/DD, Warriors can spec arms to DD, etc. The mainly DD classes can still usually choose between a DD or CC focus. Even then pigeon-holing is still significant in WoW, but at least roles can be switched up for people who like that. I can tell you that FFXI has a sub-job system with I think 20 jobs, that's around 400 possible class combinations, but that doesn't really tell anyone if the game is good or bad. Stats like that can just stay on the game boxes.

BTW, bragging about WoW playtime isn't really anything to be proud of. I see that you put it out to make a "I know WoW better than you" argument, but nonetheless. In fact, most WoW lovers have very little experience in other online games, which is often why they swear by WoW. I think WoW is a very very easy and very very shallow game. But even then, there is one thing I love about it. It is the fact that WoW brought millions of fresh blood into the online gaming scene, tons of whom never played anything close to an MMO or RPG before. That, WoW gets mad props for. Anything else, is your own opinion.

Like I said, you can drown in your own WoW fantasy all you want, just not how you did it here. Assuming everyone else's ignorance while glorifying the game you like as a "thinking man's game" and saying Diablo is only "click, click, click, click" in a Diablo thread, is nothing more than an insult to everyone else here.

[ijffdrie]

i disagree with you about the goof-offing, i, fr an exaple, do it a lot, i played for over a year on one character without even reaching lvl 70(i have TBC)

for teh rest i kinda agree with you, though i will still start playing WoW again soon(even though teh quests suck)