Dragoons or Immortals Which is Better?

[Protoss Kills Infinitely]

Well which do you like better ??? always mass either dragoons or carriers and i use them frequently 8) Do you(the public) like dragoons or immortals more ??? Discuss

[generalrievous]

Dragoons were kool for their time but tha immortals pwn I mean just tha name is perfect for it plus I like the specialized shields 8)

[Fenix]

Dragoons FTW. I <3 the Protoss spiders with exploding blue spit.

[Fenix]

I can't believe I just said "<3".

:-X

[Ych9]

IMO, the Immortal looks better than the Dragoons in everyway.

Personally, I hated the Dragoons look in SC1. They look soo goofy and unProtossLike.

[burkid]

i have to go with 'goons. immortals cant attack air.

[[LightMare]]

i have to go with 'goons. immortals cant attack air.

sure they can! they are cooler, with their super sexy and swank shields! end the Egyptian thing going on around their faces!

[burkid]

i have to go with 'goons. immortals cant attack air.

sure they can! they are cooler, with their super sexy and swank shields! end the Egyptian thing going on around their faces!


http://infoceptor.net/starcraft2/units/protoss_ground.shtml

look at the immortal on there, right under strategic properties

[[LightMare]]

bahh. doesn't really matter. it's not like you would mass 1 kind of unit except hydralisk.

[paragon]

I liked dragoons in starcraft.
And Immortals are too niche. Really Stalkers are more Dragoonish than Immortals albeit weaker although more mobile.

[GuiMontag]

i have to go with 'goons. immortals cant attack air.


when did blizzard say immortals cant attack air?

[Ghost]

Immortals, finally a stable answer to them bloody siege tanks and yamato-freaks.

[Ghost]

i have to go with 'goons. immortals cant attack air.


when did blizzard say immortals cant attack air?


Why the hell wouldnt they be able too?

[Itsmyship]

I have to say the Immortal....now there's a thing to combat siege tanks when I play Protoss, though it'll kinda suck when i play Terran :P But hey, if i ever miss the Dragoon, i still got the Stalker ;)

[Ghost]

I have to say the Immortal....now there's a thing to combat siege tanks when I play Protoss, though it'll kinda suck when i play Terran :P But hey, if i ever miss the Dragoon, i still got the Stalker ;)


Thats the spirit!

[SirBaron]

I'd have to go with the Immortal, since i hate Terran turtling and because Immortals kick siege-tank... rear... mirrors?

[DontHate]

ahhh crap. i voted immortal but didn't see it couldn't attack air. well now it's goon beucase they're a good all around unit.

[generalrievous]

ahhh crap. i voted immortal but didn't see it couldn't attack air. well now it's goon beucase they're a good all around unit.

how do you know it cant attack air do you have source for this to confirm this? because judging from the animation for the immortal id say it does have the capability thats just my assumption tho

[DontHate]

the link someone posted before said it was confirmed it is ground attack only i think.

[SirBaron]

the link someone posted before said it was confirmed it is ground attack only i think.

Could be a fake link though. I am inclined to agree with generalgrievous, the Immortal's animations suggest it can attack both air and ground.

[paragon]

the link someone posted before said it was confirmed it is ground attack only i think.

That was infoceptor. You can't always trust them to have accurate information.

[[LightMare]]

besides, immortals have much more HP and possibly shield

[burkid]

besides, immortals have much more HP and possibly shield

well even if they dont have more shield, they have a better one.

[paragon]

Sort of. They have a better one in certain circumstances.

[burkid]

Sort of. They have a better one in certain circumstances.

well its stronger to strong attacks and normal to weak ones, so then its better part of the time and therefore better.
but i really hate how slow they move.

[Ghost]

They have 100 normal shield in addition to their 800 hardened shield.

[Ych9]

I think the Stalkers are more comparable to the Dragoons.
Basically, Stalkers are like the DT version of the Dragoons. If you take a look at their HP, they have the exact same HP as the Dragoons. The only difference is that the Stalkers can blink. So I think, Stalkers are more of an upgraded Dragoons.

[Itsmyship]

Exactly, which is why i kinda prefer the immortal to the dragoon. The Stalker just seems like one of the funnest units to play as well ;D

[DontHate]

i dont' like the animation of the stalker. way too cartoony with it bobbing up and down.

[Ych9]

Exactly, which is why i kinda prefer the immortal to the dragoon. The Stalker just seems like one of the funnest units to play as well ;D


The Stalkers is gonna be great. I think its strength lies greatly in small battles where there aren't many units. But in big battles, I think the Blink ability of theirs won't be as effective. But, I think they would be very strong to draw fires away. Like when enemies are pounding your zealots for example, and out of nowhere, you blink your Stalkers in. Damm, I can't wait to try my hands on the Stalkers too. I have soo many stat that I wanna try for the Stalkers.

[darkphantom02]

I prefer the Immortal. I don't know why, but it just....appeals to me more I guess. I like the idea of a super-mega shield when hit by a powerful attack and then small weapons don't activate the shield. That's just some basic SC Rock-Paper-Scissors stuff for you. Whereas the 'goons were quickly ran down by zerglings and hydralisk, which are the first two units that a zerg player can get. It just seems cooler in design as well..

~~dp02~~
Adun Toridas!

[paragon]

The Stalkers is gonna be great. I think its strength lies greatly in small battles where there aren't many units. But in big battles, I think the Blink ability of theirs won't be as effective.

Sure it will. One second the enemy just has a line of zealots with stalkers behind the zealots as fire support. The next second they have zealots and front and stalkers behind them cutting off any chance of escape should the battle go bad.

[L0ck and L04d]

If imortals attack ground only then I wan't a golden basic ground unit that can attack air, not some crappy dark templar thing that can teleport( no offence the dark templar lovers)

[Itsmyship]

Hey lock and load....you got the same avatar as me...you wanna change or should i?Actually, I'll change, gettin tired of this one anyway :P

[Ghost]

If imortals attack ground only then I wan't a golden basic ground unit that can attack air, not some crappy dark templar thing that can teleport( no offence the dark templar lovers)


Yea lol, although I love the stalkers too

[Itsmyship]

If imortals attack ground only then I wan't a golden basic ground unit that can attack air, not some crappy dark templar thing that can teleport( no offence the dark templar lovers)


I dunno what you're talking about, the Stalker is my favorite new toss unit...nothing beats its sure badassness :P

[Ghost]

If imortals attack ground only then I wan't a golden basic ground unit that can attack air, not some crappy dark templar thing that can teleport( no offence the dark templar lovers)


I dunno what you're talking about, the Stalker is my favorite new toss unit...nothing beats its sure badassness :P


lol, nice new avy!

[Itsmyship]

Haha, yes, I thought so :thumbup:

[Ghost]

=D

I just thought of something, will immortals hard shield activate to nukes? What about dt slashes, they packed one hell of a punch!

[Itsmyship]

I thought i read something something in the forum that said that nukes would have emp on top of the explosion, so if you have emp, im guessing it takes out hardened shell also

[Ghost]

and taking that into consideration, will emp's deactivate BOTH shields or only one?

[Itsmyship]

I'd guess both since, although hardened, it's still a shield; and even if it doesn't, im sure the nuke could take them out...would kinda suck if you just nuked something and the immortals were still up and running

[Ghost]

Lol, yeah but everything BUT the immortals xD

[Ych9]

Well, I didn't expect the Immortals to be winning by soo much.
When Blizzard announced that Immortals were gonna replace the Dragoons, all I hear was people whining and how Dragoons were like a symbol to Protoss. Looks like things has changed.

[Itsmyship]

Pshhh, when i think Protoss, i think Reaver :P

[paragon]

If nukes don't take out immortals... man that would be dumb.

Anyways, it looks like the stalker will be a better unit than the dragoon was. Look at how quick they take down a battlecruiser. Something like 15-16 shots.

[generalrievous]

If nukes don't take out immortals... man that would be dumb.

Anyways, it looks like the stalker will be a better unit than the dragoon was. Look at how quick they take down a battlecruiser. Something like 15-16 shots.

amm.... we havent seen one go up against a bc yet ?_?

[paragon]

Yes we have. In the leaked video when they showcase the tempests you see two or three stalkers take down a battlecruiser. Nothing else was shotting the battlecruiser.

[burkid]

If nukes don't take out immortals... man that would be dumb.

Anyways, it looks like the stalker will be a better unit than the dragoon was. Look at how quick they take down a battlecruiser. Something like 15-16 shots.

yeah they took it down pretty quick while it was focusing on the tempest, then the other BC ran haha.

[[LightMare]]

If nukes don't take out immortals... man that would be dumb.

Anyways, it looks like the stalker will be a better unit than the dragoon was. Look at how quick they take down a battlecruiser. Something like 15-16 shots.

amm.... we havent seen one go up against a bc yet ?_?

they fire much faster than the dragoon, and with blink. they also move a lot faster than dragoons, and their AI is high, so they aren't stupid and get themselves stuck

[burkid]

and they have blink, so they wont get stuck

[Ghost]

Pshhh, when i think Protoss, i think Reaver :P


omg NO, zealot is the heart and blood of the toss.

[burkid]

and fenix was a zealot! if the zealots werent the embodiment of the protoss before, the were as soon as fenix was generated (see the topic How do Protoss Reproduce?)!

[Ghost]

zlot own eveything, even air, yes! even AIR UNITS

[Major Willy]

Upgrade in Starcraft 2: Zealots can now jump up onto air units using the same physics explained in Charge and then they tear the crap out of what they land on.

Massing Zealots would never be the same.

[paragon]

Haha and the animation for that would look awesome. Too bad that would be such a bad thing gameplay-wise.

[Ghost]

Yea lol, I alwaysimagined the zeals getting a chargelike andjump like ability, talk about unbalance lol!

[L0ck and L04d]

HOLY CRAP! I just though, what if you used EMP on imortals will they were charging a tanks in siege mode....oh and one more thing: i'm a little confused because the guy says that the imoratals replaced draggons but look a this:

http://www.starcraft2.com/art.xml?18

[Itsmyship]

1) You like caps don't you? :P
2) We've discussed emp, just look up a bit
3) Read the description of the Colossus, it'll say they were used in an earlier war, plus on top of the dragoons you also see old school reaver, carriers, and corsairs

[burkid]

HOLY CRAP! I just though, what if you used EMP on imortals will they were charging a tanks in siege mode....oh and one more thing: i'm a little confused because the guy says that the imoratals replaced draggons but look a this:

weve decided that that is from the Kalath Intercession.

[Remy]

Stalkers > immortals > goons.

Stalkers are just as tough as goons shield/HP wise, can blink, can aquire separate ground and air targets simutaneously. Stalkers are also gonna be focus fire hell for your opponents. Stalkers win.

Immortals are kinda like ultras in functionality, tanking meat shield unit. But they at least have a ranged attack, and they're also presumably lower on the tech tree. Ranged ultra that's easier on tech isn't bad at all really, although they do move a little slow. I've been saying for the longest time that immortals won't attack air, but that remains to be seen. I also don't think EMP will have any effect on immortal's hardened shield. It's only a "shield" by name, which can be deceiving, it appears only to be a second set of armor calculation with a triggering threshold.

I never liked goons. They were multipurpose and the Toss backbone, but they were never that great. I think they were only what they were because Toss didn't have anything better. I think it's great that Toss now gets not one but two upgraded goons.

[drewcbarnard]

I think ya pretty much summed it all up there Remy. I'd have to agree, Immortals are limited in function which is why stalkers at the end of the day take the gold home. The blink ability is really neat, I can't wait to see it more in action.

[paragon]

Perhaps the hardened shield will only be deactivated by EMP if it is up while it won't be affected when it is down. The shields seemed to stay up for a little bit when the siege tanks were attacking but they weren't up all the time.

[Ghost]

Yea, I share that thought with you paragon.

[Monan]

In my opinion, the immprtals are better because of their new shild, but i like more the dragoons (how they look and stuff)

[Ghost]

Stalkers > immortals > goons.
Immortals are kinda like ultras in functionality, tanking meat shield unit. But they at least have a ranged attack, and they're also presumably lower on the tech tree. Ranged ultra that's easier on tech isn't bad at all really, although they do move a little slow. I've been saying for the longest time that immortals won't attack air, but that remains to be seen. I also don't think EMP will have any effect on immortal's hardened shield. It's only a "shield" by name, which can be deceiving, it appears only to be a second set of armor calculation with a triggering threshold.


I dont know why people say ultras are good agains siege tanks, ultras get analy raped by my siege tanks. And focused fire turns them to liquid in a matter of seconds.

[burkid]

they mean how ultras are supposed to function

[Remy]

Zerg ain't got anything better on the ground than ultras to go up against a lot of siege tanks.

Ultras with darkswarm is Zerg's biggest knock on your front door.

[paragon]

or zergling with dark swarm. they attack faster and you can fit more of them there especially if it is a ramp. I haven't run the number but I bet the damage output of the zerglings you could fit around a tank is higher than that of the damage output of ultralisks you could fit around a tank. Besides, I'd just use guardians in that instance.

[Major Willy]

In my opinion, the immprtals are better because of their new shild, but i like more the dragoons (how they look and stuff)

You've got to remember the shield is only used with heavier attacks, everything smaller will cause the Protoss player to tear their hair out.
The delay on the Immortal attack is kind of bad and I've yet to see an Immortal attack air.

[FlyingTiger]

eh well the purpose of the ultra is to attack a heavily fortified area. A group of siege tanks may not even kill an ultra especially with upgraded armor and speed. Once and ultra get to minimum range, they are screwed. I usually use ultras as a mere diversion cause ultras do give a sense of panic since they are f-in huge and kinda hard to kill especially in groups.

We still don't really know the cost of an immortal or whether it is anti-air or not. Also I think the hardened shield also degrades and depletes after several siege tank hits. We also don't know the hp/shield and attack value. So really until I see something... goons>immortals in terms of versatility and its role as a mobile photon cannon.

The way I think about it though Stalker + Immortals = Dragoon - Blink - Special Shield. I'd take the stalker/immortal combo, but I take the dragoon over the immortals any day.

[paragon]

I'd even take the stalker alone over the dragoon

stalker > dragoon > immortal

[DontHate]

i think...
immorals>stalker>dragoon
becuase immortals have better hp and shields, stronger attack, about the same cooldown. also they're about the same speed without the blink.

[paragon]

immortals are much slower than stalkers. and their attack is almost much slower. and they most likely cost a lot more so you can't make as many.

[DontHate]

how can u be sure they cost more? lets say the stalkers are just like a DT. u get them later in the game, and they cost about the same as a immortal. Just becuase it looks bigger and is more powerful doesn't always mean it's more monies.

[burkid]

immorals>stalker>dragoon
becuase immortals have better hp and shields, stronger attack, about the same cooldown. also they're about the same speed without the blink.

umm... stalkers move faster, attack faster, have a higher range, and are more mobile. immortals might have stronger attack and shields, but they are much slower and lower range, so a stalker could take down an immortal without even getting hit.

[paragon]

exactly, and you would have more stalkers than immortals anyways so the immortals would be outnumbered and unable to get away. Stalkers are like vicious pack animal... robots...

[Ghost]

Looks like immortal won the poll xD

[DontHate]

against dragoons...

[Ghost]

and whats the poll about?

[DontHate]

huh? i thought u were talking about stalkers when u said "looks like immortals won" becuase everyone was saying that stalkers were so much better than immortals, and it would be an awkward thing to say becuase it's so out of the blue.
btw the polls about dragoons and immortals and which is the better.

[Ghost]

I know it is. Its out of the blue but its on topic xD

[DontHate]

ah, i see. and yea i like the immortal more too. i don't know who said it but i like the egyptian style of it as well.

[Ghost]

Yea, if you see the artwork the immortals face looks like a sarcofagus's face.

[burkid]

sarcophagus. no f.

[Ghost]

sorry about that, i speak and write spanish often to I get mixed up as the ph doesnt sound like f in spanish. ;D

[burkid]

yeah. im going into spanish 3.
anyways i know how to spell sarcophagus because i was born in egypt :P

[Itsmyship]

Hehe, I was born in LA, speak Spanish, write it every once in a while...and I STILL know how to spell sarcophagus :P

[burkid]

oops i meant to put "i only know..."

[paragon]

i really shoulda made the stalker vs immortal one a poll but everyone already knows that the stalker would be the winner anyways so i guess it doesn't matter

[Major Willy]

I like the Egyptian look of the Immortals. Nicely combined with the futuristic essence of Starcraft.

[shadow]

the dragoon no doubt.

it is the first faborite unit of mine and all my attacks uses dragoons in one way.
the dragoon is huge, flexible, powerfull and fast. its only weakness is ghosts with their cursed lockdowns.
the costs of the dragoon are acseptable and it can attack air units.

the immortals is also one of my faborites, not as good as the dragoon but good. i would more like to have dragoons than immortals, but the immortals are the replacement so i better get used to it.

there is possible to describe the immortalin one word :powerup:

i will always miss the dragoon......it was one of the best starcraft units ever.

[mc2]

The Dragoons were too big and the way they move is too clumpsy. Always having trouble squeezing them through tight spaces or narrow chokes. Hence the Immortal is a bit better

[starcraft2]

dragoons go down way to easily, it looks like immortals can take a beating from the tougher units, bu thte simpler units tear them apart.

[tweakismyname]

hmm what im wondering about the immortals is if its a certian amount of damage that activates the shields or what blizzard team "sets" as a heavy attack, like what if you got a unit and it doesent activate the shields but at lev 3 weapon upgrade it does?

[GuiMontag]

blizzard will probably sit down and decide which units they want to activate the sheild, rather than pure damage based

[tweakismyname]

im hoping it works that way. it would be kinda funny if in a modded game immortals were immune to everything

[Dreadnought]

Dragoons always faced the same direction... it was kinda wierd. I think immortals are better. Better name too.

[silky2007]

it's a change from the dragoons ... but this new Imortals ... when they dye ... where that "criogenic liquid" that the protoss were kept in ... wtf ??? that's a big nono ... and the same with the stalker ... in the concept art ... has a big "bottle" on his back full of criogenic H20 .. so no H20 coming out of these units when they die

[L0ck and L04d]

YOURE RIGHT! Its just notprotoss with thought cryogenic H2O, I meen it looked so cool!

[starcraft2]

well the game is still developing there probably do something about that later, but the shield should be activated by how much damage something does no??? Because if not then immortals are only good against those unit types and then you wouldnt need em any more, it would sound better if the shield was activated on certain damage point so focous fire would be harder to use and i would then envlove more strategy. just my opinion.

[L0ck and L04d]

I disagree I meen if it was activated by how much damage its taking, well that would defeat the purpose of having a shield that only activated by some thing big, not many little un-ordered hits. Look at it this way: its like shooting a cement bunker with 100 machine gun's or an artilery shell and hiting a siege tank with firebats or a yamato blast, its the type of weapon.

[AdmiralAckbar]

Immortals are better i like that they kept the overall look of the dragoon which was a cool unit but added to its looks and usefulness, I agree with L0ck and L04d's theory on how the sheild will function definitly by damage type probably similar the the warcraft 3 system of light,medium,heavy armour and hack,pierce,magic,etc damage where a specific damage type will activate the shield. Because the immortals are infact upgraded dragoons what the hell happened to the blue goo? bring it back

P.S.The egyptians-in-space look of the protoss in SC2 is over done and the false beards dont make sense what are the odds that egyptian and protoss cultures would both develop this strange and unique decorative element independantly of eachother especially considering protoss dont have beards.

[Remy]

I disagree with the idea that the immortal's hardened shield would be activated by damage type instead of a damage threshold.

If we think about it in SC1 terms, and it was based on damage type instead of a damage threshold, there would be too many units that would activate the hardened shield. Not only that, we would end up having units that should activate it but do not, while a great many units that activate it when they shouldn't.

Based on what we know from SC1, siege tank damage was explosive. It makes very little sense to have the hardened shield activate on all explosive damage instead of a high enough damage threshold close to the siege mode damage of 70. If it was based on damage type, a hydra doing a mere 10 damage per hit would activate the hardened shield, yet a reaver doing 100~125 damage per hit would NOT activate the shield. Makes very little sense.

Of course, it is possible for Blizzard to tweak the attack type vs unit size system in SC2. However, it means Blizzard would have to have all heavy hitters in one category, as well as tweak and fine tune just about everything else instead of just having things works similar to SC1 and simply building on it. They would have to rework all unit stats like HP and armor because of this.

I find this idea very unlikely. Why would they needlessly put focus on completely reinventing the damage type system when it worked very well? There was no complaints about it and most fans liked it just fine, there is no need to fix that when it wasn't broken. Also, if this was true, we should've seen evidence of tweaking unit HP but it doesn't appear that way.

[BaneOfHumanity]

As far as looks I like the Immortal better...(though the name could be better) Dragoons were never really my favorite unit in SC...

[kehmdaddy]

To go back to what Silky2007 said, I actually think that's a great point. I would be upset if my Immortals and Stalkers didn't spill aquamarine and bluegreen goo all over the battlefield after they burst apart haha. It would kind of ruin the whole concept that there are actually former Zealot and Templar warriors manning these machine bodies.
Now, to the gameplay part of the discussion, I actually can see the damage type being a possible way of determining what turns the shield on. Think of the Banelings: Although they will likely do enough damage to activate the shield, I don't think they should, or will. I don't really know all the different units' damage types, so I'm not going to try and debate it with some sort of statistic, I'm just telling it how I see it. ;)
And to end on topic, Dragoons and Immortals aren't really that similar. I really want to know what the range and damage of the Immortal are going to be like, because I think in the gameplay video whoever was controlling them was making them walk right next to those Tanks before opening fire. Also, do we know if the Immortal can attack air yet? In their animation on the starcraft2.com site, they look and point their guns up... it seems logical that they would, but you never know. I like the Immortals more, but are they better? For that, we'll have to wait and see.

[GuiMontag]

the way i hope blizzard will do it is that they ask themselves what attacks they want to activate the sheild (eg, THOR, seige tank, reaver, ultralisk) rather than have it damage based.

[Remy]

I don't know why people even want the hardened shield to activate based on damage type or attacking unit.  I don't think most people even understand exactly what that means.

There is really no situation where a low damage hit should activate the shield because that is the damn counter against it.  Then the only thing left is high damage hits to activate the shield, which should be the case universally above a certain threshold.

The way it was described by the SC2 lead designer sounds like damage threshold is what it is anyway.  This is an exact quote, he said "only when struck by a very powerful attack."  No way does that sound like "certain types of attacks" or "attacks from specific types of units."

But the biggest reason why it will be based on a damage threshold is what I've said two posts up, it's what's simple yet works.  It will cover everything that should activated it and weed out everything that shouldn't.  Making it work off of damage type or specific units(absurd) is getting the same result except doing way more work in the process.  It's like Blizzard wanting to go make each unit deal and receive damage differently against EVERY other unit in the game INDIVIDUALLY.  Why would they do that?  They wouldn't because you can get the same result with a universal damage type system.

[GuiMontag]

my bad english has got the better of me :P
i didnt mean attack type as in 'explosive' but rather they say, siege tank will activate sheild in siege mode, THOR's main cannon will activate it, ect.

doing a damage threshhold would be fine, but it would be stupid if when you upgrade to lvl3 attack a unit will activate the sheild when it didnt at lower levels

[Remy]

If they designed it to be activated based on a damage threshold, I don't see why they would set it to be something that a unit would be able reach with a lvl 3 attack upgrade.

Attack mods for all the units were all generally 1 or 2, with the strongest units having an attack mod of 3. The only exceptions are siege tank's siege mode being 5 and goliath's air attack mod being 4. The attack mods are all generally very small numbers, not even worth 10 damage with all 3 upgrades. So if that were to happen, it would be a very specific and intentional design choice, but I really don't see why they would do that. I don't think it's something you'd have to worry about.

[Major Willy]

I hope Bizzard doesn't do something like "Oh, Banelings do more than 30 damage. That's gonna set it off. Okay guys?" I want them to actually sit down and go through a list of all damage types and just say yes or no.

[Remy]

Siege tank siege mode damage was 70 in SC1. I think we're pretty safe from every little thing activating the hardened shield.

If there are other things that come close to the threshold, it should activate the shield in the first place anyway. Otherwise, then what the hell is the hardened shield good for anyway? Small hits counter it, but it's not always good against heavy hits either? Might as well call it trash in that case.

[xasterothx]

definately the immortals...i mean look at them...they dont act stupid anymore

i remember the dragoons getting stuck in corners and small obsticles.

[wuffle]

IMO, Blizzard just split the dragoon into the immortal and the stalker. The Immortal is the anti seige late game dragoon, while the dragoon is the micro kind dragoon.

[Ych9]

The Immortals is going to be a lot more useful then expected. Because in SC2, there seems to be much more heavy weaponed units. Just take a look at the Thor for the example and you will understand.

Immortals are going to be a very powerful tank just like the Ultralisk. Just look at their HP. 100 shield and 240 HP. That is almost the same as an Ultralisk. Not to mention, they could absorb from what I heard, 800 HP of heavy damage before their shield runs out. I think they might just end up as the ultimate sponge/tank in SC2.

[Major Willy]

It doesn't soak up everything though. And 340 goes down fast from large groups of lighter units.

[Ych9]

It doesn't soak up everything though. And 340 goes down fast from large groups of lighter units.


True, but combined with other units, it is going to be very powerful. Just like the Ultralisk, you don't send them in alone. But with combined forces, it will give you satisfying results. Same with the Immortals, and from the looks of it, it will most likely surpass the Ultralisk as the ultimate sponge.

[Major Willy]

Immortals VS Bunkered Marines would be a bit of a hassle but you could just bring Colossi up and burn down the Bunkers.

...I think I was trying to prove a point and then shot it down.

[Remy]

I don't think you would use the colossus to take down bunkers. To hack down 350 HP and 1 armor, I think the warpray would be more suitable for the job.

[MarineCorp]

I like dragoons because they are bloody and gory with blue blood ;)

[Russell_Detoyato]

In the Early Days of sc the Trick in getting a few unit army was. Terran: Maines+Medics
Zerg: Hydralisk+Ultralisk Protoss: Dragoons+Zealots. The first mentioned unit should (in my understanding) be mor numerous than the other. Anyway I liked Dragoons Better than Immortals. I think Blizzard should Just make the Immortal Look Like the Dragoons in the Cutscenes in the original SC. With just a few additions like two shots every fire of their Antimatter Phase disrupted globs of Energy

[CheddarCheese]

I think the immortal looks better, but I think I liked how the dragoon can attack both air and ground.

[Remy]

The immortal has been confirmed to be able to attack both air and ground.

[josh]

to the protoss, phase disruptors are so overrated. that's why i like how blizzard changed the look on the most of the phase disruptors into other forms of fire.

[Smokiehunter]

we can't do a direct comparison between immortals and dragoons because technically the dragoon as a unit split. so you also have to take into account the stalker. witch does have anti air, and its blink ability plus the immortals hardened shield more then make up for the lost dragoon.

edit: oops didn't know that immortals could attack air >.<

[freedom23]

This is the 2nd personality poll question ive seen hahaha
(1st 1 is deciding which beam color for colossus which also means what kind of person you are ^_^)

this is the 2nd coz this describes how much we value things and lets us choose between our past and future.. ^_^ ^_^ ^_^

I can only say that we should always look forward but never forget to look back on our past....
(they both serve theyre own purpose and both are good on their own fields)

[josh]

amen, brother. amen. well, it can't be helped, can it?

[Protosscommander]

Well for me the Immortals are the most, i really liked , well i like them both, but much better, is the Immortal, because its already evolved. :)

[ijffdrie]

i like em both too

the immortal is basically created of 2 parts
the under part which is an actual dragoon
and the upper part wich are the upgrades
i like both parts

war

[Hadean]

The immortal is just so much more sexy. I mean, I wouldn't **** a robotic spider, but I might **** a robotic spider/egyptian alien thing.

[ijffdrie]

hadean, read the forum rules before posting

[Hadean]

Okay cutie. I will. What rule should I be looking at mister 100?

[manaplague]

Right then... anyway I like the Immortal more mostly because the Dragoon held a place of hatred in my heart. The little buggers never path properly so i have to spend a crap load of time getting 6 of them down a bloody ramp... hate them so much.

[ijffdrie]

oops, i was looking at rules of another forum :-[

[Hadean]

Right then... anyway I like the Immortal more mostly because the Dragoon held a place of hatred in my heart. The little buggers never path properly so i have to spend a crap load of time getting 6 of them down a bloody ramp... hate them so much.


Regardless of the AI pathing, cause tbh it was ****ty with almost all the units, I'm sure you did atleast love the goons a little, it was prolly one of my fav units in the game, but the Immortal is just as cool and is much stronger.

[manaplague]

Edited out quotes. Please read the forum rules and refrain from quoting unnecessarily.

Regardless of the AI pathing, cause tbh it was ****ty with almost all the units, I'm sure you did atleast love the goons a little, it was prolly one of my fav units in the game, but the Immortal is just as cool and is much stronger.
[/quote] No i really hated them, the only time I used them was when a zealot just wasn't enough.

[Heavyarms2050]

after looking at the mothership update and seeing the immortal movement, i think it would be cooler if their legs move more spider like

[225popcap]

To tell the truth, the immortal is an oversized dragoon equipt with cannons that ooze out pathetic blasts. The shield was a good idea but the protoss need an air attacker. Perhaps the immortal can have an option of cannons or psi.

[Anubis_theDark]

Immortals are ussefull but the comparation is wrong. It should have been stalkers vs dragoons. The immortal is the tank like unit of the protoss. The true replacement for the dragoon is the stalker wich once again is alot better than the dragoon with it's blink abillity and the powerfull attack.

[Darth_Bane]

IMMORTALS are better! DRAGOONS are not good compaired to the immortals. All you people who voted for the Dragoon are just consrvatives. Deal with it Dragoons are dead Immortals are UPGRADED Dragoons.

[Vindicatormsc]

if i am not mistaken,the Immortal can attack air units as well,right ??
anyway,i like the Immortal better.it looks better and has this nice shield upgrade,there's no way a Dragoon could be better than a Immortal.

[freedom23]

lets just have this thread rest in peace ^_^

[Shadow Templar]

Can you even compare the two. One is sweet early game support/ awesome in mass unit. The other is a damage sponge used for breaking into bases later into the game.

Honestly, I loved the dragoon but I really can't wait for the Immortal.

[Hadean]

Uhm, you CAN compare them, as storywise they are in fact the replacement for the dragoon which had been made obsolete by the absolute pwnage of aiur.

[lurkers_lurk]

Immortals are ussefull but the comparation is wrong. It should have been stalkers vs dragoons. The immortal is the tank like unit of the protoss. The true replacement for the dragoon is the stalker wich once again is alot better than the dragoon with it's blink abillity and the powerfull attack.


i agree

[Hunter]

I liked dragoons too, but the immortal is better. The new powerful shield makes it really useful against terran and any powerful units

[Wlck742]

Dragoons really were better at anti-air than ground, but Immortals can't do that. Overall, I'd say that Immortals will have more strategic uses, ie better, but I'll still miss the Dragoon. At least it's still in the map editor.

[BirdofPrey]

I will always miss the 'goon but the Immortal is cooler and better.
It would win in a fight too

[BnechbReaker]

stalkers are the new dragoon, immortal is completely different in its role, and no, the immortal can't attack air

[josh]

yeah, but although it has the blink ability, stalkers has a lower vitality.

[-LT-]

I like immortals better because they're powerful.

[LEMONPIEEE]

for attack i like goons cause they have land and air, immortals look better

[BnechbReaker]

i like the dragoon better, it's much more versatile

[josh]

The dragoons are so stupid they can't even make their own way. They get stuck just for a second and they go backwards trying to find another way out when they could just go a little to the left or right. And the phase disruptor is just overrated for me.

[BnechbReaker]

that's not the fault of dragoon itself ! blame it on the lack of computing power and stupidly inefficient path finding algorithms of the late 90's

[10-Neon]

josh: that stuff is just pathfinding, a problem with every ground unit in the game. Supposedly the SC2 pathfinding will be better, but...it doesn't have anything to do with the actual unit.

[Patuljak]

I really like Immortals, I just felt that Zealots+Dragoons felt more like the backbone of the toss army. Zealots+Stalkers just doesn't feel right.

[Hadean]

Thats why the stalker is technically not the replacement of the dragoon. The Immortal is. I would not take stalkers around as actual attacker. It has minimal HP in comparison and is meant more or less as a stronger base raider. I'd use the Immortal in the same capacity that the goons were used.

[DontHate]

yea but immortals can't attack air anymore and are more expensive. The stalkers are the same price as dragoons, but are weaker by a long shot. I guess this is justified with the blink ability, but i'm pretty sure stalkers are the replacements of dragoons.

[BnechbReaker]

i thought the stalker cost exactly the same as dragoons and had the same combined hp/shield as dragoons. they only have a slightly weaker attack, 18 instead of 20, it can hit air too. so it's more or less a dragoon with blink.

immortal, on the other hand, has much more hp/shield, something like 300. it also cost more resources as well as supply, it also has hardened shield and it cannot attack air, apparently it's range is also much shorter as shown in the protoss demo video. it's role is completely different from dragoons. dragoon were weak against tank, but immortals totally owns tanks. it took a tank in siege mode 3 shots to kill a dragoon, it takes 12-15 shots to kill an immortal

[DontHate]

stalkers have 40 less shield than dragoons and do 16 damage fully. it's 8 plus 8 to armored. Same price and supply though.

oh and btw, the stalkers start out as ranged goons, which is really helpful.

[BnechbReaker]

ok may be it's weaker, but not overwhelmingly so, it's still stronger than goliath/viking. and the other aspects of it are more similar to the dragoon, plus it also has blink which is handy

[Remy]

I thought the stalker has 120 HP and 60 shield??  Unless it's been changed.  But that's what they still have on sc2armory as well.  If it hasn't been changed and it's accurate, then that's the same combined total as the SC1 goon's 100 HP and 80 shield.  And by SC1 standards, the stalker can actually be considered as tougher by those numbers.

If things indeed have been changed, can someone point me to a place that has all the up-to-date stats?  Thanks.

[kraft]

Immortals of course... the shield is very powerful, and the range of fire is preatty cool too

[vinzel]

dragoon is better no doubt the immortals only activated their shields against great fire power
the immortal must go, dragoons has to come back

[BnechbReaker]

soon you'll realize that stalkers are the new dragoons, their stats are very similar

[Inpox]

i like the immortals more, i like their new look, their new ability and the background story of them

[DeathRot]

dragoon doesnt has to come back the stalker replace it and immortal is so dam cool having a new meat shield for protoss if u said immortal go dragoon stay piting both dragoon and stalker together doesnt make any sense

[BnechbReaker]

i think the immortals should be slightly bigger, they look so small next to the colossus

[Inpox]

but then the colossus is also alot bigger... alot

[Darth_Bane]

Very true I wish the Immortal was slightly bigger. I meen even a tad bit better would help us out. I think it should be the size of 2 seige tanks next to each other side by side. And about a third as tall as a colossus. Now that would be sweet but if they did that they would have to increase the sheilds and hp by a little as well. What do you think its size should be?