Zealot Movement

[ImaGiNe.]

In the game play trailer, the Zealot does not seem to move very quickly (as in StarCraft 1) though it does show off the new "Charge" ability. But as the game progresses, The Zealot should have an upgrade for movement and speed (again, this was in StarCraft 1.) Remember the Muscular Leg Augment research? Here, this should jog your memory as this was taken straight from the StarCraft Compendium:

Leg Enhancements - This is the most useful of the upgrades for Zealots as it allows them to reach their targets and engage in melee combat -- an essential factor for this unit's effectiveness in the later stages of a game.

I would have to agree! It is indeed an essential factor, so the Zealot (with an upgraded movement and speed) coupled with their new "Charge" ability, I think they would be quite a deadly force to be reckoned with and a good deciding factor to help the Protoss player achieve victory or something like it! :good:

What do you guys think? I feel positive that the Zealot will receive an upgrade for movement and speed to further enhance their effectiveness.

[paragon]

I think that the charge ability may be replacing the leg enhancements. Unfortunate as this may be, it is a likely truth.

[burkid]

yeah to have both of them would be a bit overpowered, they would just be too fast.

[drewcbarnard]

I think the charge ability is cool though. Additional movement upgrades will be a little excessive on top of the charge ability. I am willing to give the new ability a fair chance. Besides, if it doesn't work out in the Beta and other testing, they can always go back. "Out with the old and in with the new"...lets just see what happens. ::)

[Ghost]

yeah to have both of them would be a bit overpowered, they would just be too fast.


Yea, might aswell make them be able to charge all the time lol.

[[LightMare]]

i'm not sure about stability with augmented movement and charge

[Major Willy]

Leg Enhancements are very likely to be replaced by Charge.

[DontHate]

ah, that was the easiest way to get to another base in need. I think every race should get what is like a nydus canal becuase what i think is in sc there is too much traveling to get somewhere. like in WC3 u can use ur town portal to go to an ally in need, but this also adds the factor of getting back to your base, so the other team may be able to attack your base while undefended. it leaves a bit of a strategic factor when chosing where to move your men.

[paragon]

Terrans have dropships, protoss have phase prisms and warp in. Those are as quick as you should need.

[Proxy-serva]

yes but you cant make them so fast for both you need vespine gas and so on...
and with the drop ship u cant transport much unitz

[paragon]

I make fleets of dropships. I have a great time deploying my army quickly with them. And it's quick enough for me.

[Proxy-serva]

i must tr out this to^^

[generalrievous]

would be kool if the dropships for the terrans actually droped the marines out while in the sky

[Fenix]

How do you think they did it in SC1?

[Ghost]

LOL and a good player always has a little crisis control group, normally mine is made up of 6 wraiths 10 marines, 5 firebats, 3 medics, 1 tank and a couple of dropships.

[Fenix]

In that respect, I normally use Vultures. Blazingly fast and freaking cheap.

[Major Willy]

Explosive damage though. You can Spider Mine but there's only 3 per Vulture and they don't work on buildings.

[Fenix]

Ya, but I'm just talking about quick reinforcing till my main troops arrive.

[Major Willy]

I rush Vultures sometimes and if I do it right, I can pop into my friends base with around 4 when he's almost done his Cybernetics Core. I just run right behind the minerals and have the Vultures all shoot at one probe until the lovely explosions come up... then I move on to the next one.

[paragon]

The only thing I like about vultures is the fact that I can do fine without them. Although on the off chance I play protoss, they are pretty good at harassing my zealots.

[Remy]

Explosive damage though. You can Spider Mine but there's only 3 per Vulture and they don't work on buildings.


Concussive damage actually, but anyway, vultures rock.

Back on topic, I think having charge over leg enhancements would actually work better for Toss in most cases other than delayed zealot rushing or helping allies in early-game in emergency situations.  Having your lots march at speeds similar to your other ground units while being able to get a greater burst of speed to engage the frontline in any confrontation would serve Toss players better in most cases.

[ImaGiNe.]

Yeah, this is exactly what I am looking forward to. Zealots are supposed to spearhead any Protoss assault anyway.

[paragon]

Another thing with the leg enhancements is that if they use a formation system similar to that of warcraft 3 then all units selected will move at the speed of the slowest unit.

[Ghost]

Yeah, this is exactly what I am looking forward to. Zealots are supposed to spearhead any Protoss assault anyway.


Immortals do that now.

[paragon]

so the spearhead of the protoss assault is good against the unit in the back of the terran assault and bad vs the rest of them. How then will this so called "immortal" lumber on past the entire terran army just to kill the siege tanks while every terran unit is attack them and most likely, cutting them to ribbons.

[burkid]

the point of the immortal it to get hit by the tanks so the rest of the army doesnt get crippled while running to engage.

[paragon]

let me draw a diagram for you
C = colossus
Z = zealot
I = immortal
M = marine
R = reaper
G = goliath
S = siege tank

C..Z.Z......I...................M.R.G.S
....Z.Z......I...................M.R.....S
.C.Z.Z......I...................M.R.G.S
.C.Z.Z......I...................M.R.G.S
....Z.Z......I...................M.R.....S
C..Z.Z......I...................M.R.G.S
marines, reapers, and goliaths move up and hit immortals. immortals die, marines, reapers, and goliaths move back then one of two things occurs
A) Protoss assault and get killled
B) Siege tanks move up with the rest of the units guarding them and pound the protoss.

[burkid]

the zealots should be closer to the immortals, so by the time the immortals die the zealots are in charging range, causing the tanks to shell their own units.

[paragon]

immortals still die, and the zealots, and everything else protoss.

[burkid]

or, immortals still die, zealots charge the infantry, colossi clean up the tanks and goliaths

[paragon]

the zealots will be dead for shore. The immortals too. Marines and reapers could even go with the zealots. But the colossi would not be able to take out the tanks and Goliaths. Remember, colossi take damage as air units too so goliaths would be using their missiles which are killer. And the colossi first have to get into range and then get close enough to fire. Being blasted by tanks once they get in range and being blasted by goliaths the entire way.

[burkid]

oh, i forgot bout the goliaths missiles... it would probably come down to the tanks and 1 or 2 goliaths

[Remy]

Under situations where there is no extensive micro on either side, immortals will do their job fine. But once immortals and zealots are within the siege tanks' attack range, you can still micro the tanks to aim at the zealots after the first shot.

I seriously doubt the immortals will be anywhere near as effective as in the demo in real games. "Oh, I can't kill immortals with siege tank fire but let's target them anyway. And let's back off the marines around my tank while I'm at it." Right...

But a well coordinated assault on the Toss's part should still make immortals effective at their supportive role. It will all come down to micro.

[paragon]

Yes but like you said, anyone sort of micro would lead to them not targeting the immortals with the tanks. Thus as a support unit, stalkers would be much better and much more effective.

[Patuljak]

The immortals serve even if they don't target them. If they don't target them, they survive and can dish out damage. On the other hand, if you use stalkers instead of them, they won't survive vs siege tanks for long enough to kill even two or three. Do you see what I mean?

[paragon]

I said you don't target them with tanks. But your reapers and marines and goliaths would each them up.

[burkid]

a staker blink behind the tanks would probably be the best thing for the toss in that situation.

[paragon]

exactly. that is why stalkers > immortals.

[Remy]

I believe the immortals can still be effective with careful coordination on the Toss's part.

Place immortals at the front, zealots close behind, and colossi right behind lots, then proceed that way.  You send a few immortals in to draw the first round of siege tank fire, but you move in your lots and colossi and anything else you have immediately after.  Even by the time that all of the Protoss units reach melee attack range(or their respective attack ranges), no tank in siege mode would have fired a second shot yet.

If the Toss player microed at least moderately well, and the Terran microed tanks to attack away from immortals after the first shots, then the second round of fire on zealots would be splashing on marines and reapers.  Like I said, it'll most likely come down to micro.

The immortals would have effectively soaked the first round of siege tank fire, and got the rest of the units to close in on the Terran force.  Whether the immortals die to small arms fire after that doesn't really matter.  Although with 100 shield and 240 HP, that's still a lot of life to eat through.  And I'm assuming they'll come with a base armor of at least 1.

They won't be crazy good like how the demo is making some people believe, but they definitely won't be useless either.

[burkid]

^thats what i was trying to say initially!

[paragon]

I'm not saying the immortals will be completely useless but they are even more of a one time thing than valkyries are and I know you think those suck.

[Remy]

We'll have to wait and see how immortals are in other situations not involving siege tanks.

[paragon]

yes and we'll have to see which units activate it's hardened shield.

[Ghost]

let me draw a diagram for you...
<diagram>
Quote: Longer than message.


You didn't take the colosi's range into account. And the immortals are supposed to be within that range to that any swarming little units get ass raped by the twin thermal lances. The zealots would also close into the marines pronto so their priority would change to the zealots. In the heat of things immortals move back into the tanks and pwn them.

Anyway by what I have seen so far I would only send in immortals first if assaulting a choke point, all other times I would port them in behind enemy lines while my zealots engage the smaller units.

Please spell words out fully. 'zlot' is only two letters away from being proper forum format.

[paragon]

Siege tanks and goliaths would destroy the zealots, marines and reapers would destroy the immortals

[Trooper_Lozer]

I just wanted to say that what you guys are mentioning are not the only units in the game. I personaly am a big fan of the psionic storm ability so in that situation i would storm the eny front lint of rines then send in the lots behind the immortals to get the tanks. Goliaths coiuld present a problem if they do not die with psionic storm. :( But there is also such thing as a reaver which i doubt they will take away. Maybe my plan is not so good, but just want to alert you guys that there will be other units, and that also goes with the terran, who knows what they will have. Oh, and this is sort of drifting from original topic.
-Trooper

[paragon]

There is also whatever terran units will be revealed that could counter those things. And the good old nuke/lockdown to wipe it clean.

[Lemonparty]

Zealots can charge into Siege Tank deadzone and theorycrafting is pretty pointless anyway.

[slugonice]

CHARGE is soooo kewl. Kenshi Himura style!

[Major Willy]

Now the Zealots can still run at their drugged up speeds like in SC1, but they get Charge with the upgrade now.

[Wlck742]

Imagine lots running down lings with the speed upgrade before they move 5 feet. Also, the speed upgrade doesn't affect the charge spped, right?

[Major Willy]

Well you can't charge without the speed upgrade so there's only one speed for the charge unless you give Zealots StimPack in the map editor.

[Protosscommander]

Zealots movement now in Starcraft 2 is very awe------some why because in starcraft 1 they are very weak against enemy because of slow movement but now they are all fast En Taro Tassadar Commander !!!

[BnechbReaker]

i don't think you can charge all the times though, so in some aspects charge it's not as good leg enhancement.

[Major Willy]

No if you look at the Protoss Photo topic you can see that they have their leg upgrade still, it gives them Charge too now.

[GrahamTastic]

i don't think you can charge all the times though, so in some aspects charge it's not as good leg enhancement.

Basically, it speeds up the Zealot only when it needs to be fast- when it needs to fight someone. I don't think that the Zealots really need two speed upgrades though.

[kuvasz]

I just found this (http://www.flickr.com/photos/starfeeder/2368152371/sizes/o/) pic of the zealot's charge upgrade. It says "Increases the movement speed [when in close proximity and?] allows them to intercept nearby [enemies faster?]. So yeah... there's the pic and we still can't know what it does for sure :D

ps necropost ftw.

[VodkaChill]

There is a lot of post in here mentionning the Terran support as Goliaths... Can I remind people that Goliaths does not exist in Starcraft2 yet.

Please either use the name Thor or Viking for the unit supporting the Terran group. And if you are talking about Goliath attacking Collosi with missiles.. please please remember that Goliaths are not there, and if Vikings are to attack Collosi it needs to be airborn thus removing ground defence of your tanks.

I think that the best way to hold of this attack of Chargin Zealots protected by Immotals would be 2-3 Thors, that could do the meatshield vs ground force (protecting Tanks) and using is ''powerful anti air'' ''flack cannon'' attack agains the collosi.