Heroes - Like WC3 or like SC?

[Bumbaloe]

I saw on the b.net forums (I think it was the b.net forums, at least) A discussion about whether the heroes would be like the ones in WC3 or in SC. I hope that they will be like in WC3. What do you think? :D

[KoN17]

yeah kinda like how Arthas is like Kerrigan?
Except that Kerrigan was betrayed and Arthas was the betrayer ;)

[Bumbaloe]

I should've explained better. I meant if they would have a leveling system or not.

[Singuris]

wc3's hero system was ok for story mode but in multiplayer it distracted for the mass combat so keep it like starcraft one and brood war.

[Amajeln]

Hm...well if they keep it original they wont have any heroes. Although I don't think they will, I heard they will have unique units for each side.

[markus]

wc3's hero system was ok for story mode but in multiplayer it distracted for the mass combat so keep it like starcraft one and brood war.


Yeah, for multiplayer, NO HEROES PLEASE! But for single player, heroes like the warcraft leveling up style are OK. It would be kinda cool. They should make it if your hero dies, it's game over too. I mean, how would the resurrecting work ;p it's starcraft, people don't just come back to life like they do in warcraft 3. Come to think of it, no hero should be able to die in that game :o

[Fenix]

Yeah, for multiplayer, NO HEROES PLEASE! But for single player, heroes like the warcraft leveling up style are OK. It would be kinda cool. They should make it if your hero dies, it's game over too. I mean, how would the resurrecting work ;p it's starcraft, people don't just come back to life like they do in warcraft 3. Come to think of it, no hero should be able to die in that game :o


Um, dude....It's already game over if a hero dies...."Reynor must survive" ring any bells?

I think it would be really cool if, in the story mode, your heroes leveled and such. Plus, the way it's set up, they could die multiple times, and still have it make sense....Consider the following.

Say Jim's your hero for this scenario. He's cruising about in his Battleship, the Hyperion. Bam, he gets blown out of the sky. Luckily, he had an escape pod with his trusty Jetpack in it. Leapin' around as a Reaper is mighty fun. At least he has that. Uh oh, Guardians. Bam, gets hit in the back, jetpack blown to bits. But due to his extensive work as a soldier, his reflexes are razor sharp and he leaps clear in time. Unluckily for him, he's only got his Marine combat suit and good ol' machine gun.

I'd say that's more or less plausible.

Or say you're Protoss.

Flying around with Artanis, he gets blown up. But he's OK, he's got his Psi Blades and Zealot encounter suit! Drat, stepped on a Spider Mine. Better rush him back to a Gateway so he can be put into an Immortal.

[reject_666_6]

Yeah, just keep sending them back in every mission as a different unit, Fenix style (the real Fenix, that is ;D)

[PainKiller]

Heroes does not belong in StarCraft mulitplayer games.

in campaign: Cool as you guys mention about leveling, but if the hero dies then he is dead and cant be ressourected! and you will have to start over again. unless Blizzard has made it that way that the hero is going to die right there and do a comback or something

In Multiplayer: No way!! It would ruin the game of StarCraft!
I prefer open combat with my armies instead of some hero killing of everything once he has reached a high level!

[TheDarkTemplar]

I think the units are so powerful in StarCraft that heroes like WarCraft wouldn't make sense. Imagine having a level 10 Artanis, Zeratul and Fenix (just for arguments sake) plus a Mothership?!

[Bumbaloe]

Yeah, for multiplayer, NO HEROES PLEASE! But for single player, heroes like the warcraft leveling up style are OK. It would be kinda cool. They should make it if your hero dies, it's game over too. I mean, how would the resurrecting work ;p it's starcraft, people don't just come back to life like they do in warcraft 3. Come to think of it, no hero should be able to die in that game :o


Um, dude....It's already game over if a hero dies...."Reynor must survive" ring any bells?

I think it would be really cool if, in the story mode, your heroes leveled and such. Plus, the way it's set up, they could die multiple times, and still have it make sense....Consider the following.

Say Jim's your hero for this scenario. He's cruising about in his Battleship, the Hyperion. Bam, he gets blown out of the sky. Luckily, he had an escape pod with his trusty Jetpack in it. Leapin' around as a Reaper is mighty fun. At least he has that. Uh oh, Guardians. Bam, gets hit in the back, jetpack blown to bits. But due to his extensive work as a soldier, his reflexes are razor sharp and he leaps clear in time. Unluckily for him, he's only got his Marine combat suit and good ol' machine gun.

I'd say that's more or less plausible.

Or say you're Protoss.

Flying around with Artanis, he gets blown up. But he's OK, he's got his Psi Blades and Zealot encounter suit! Drat, stepped on a Spider Mine. Better rush him back to a Gateway so he can be put into an Immortal.


Good description. I hope there are heroes like this. :D

[qtpay]

Only on a story-mode or such. I'm guessing the game won't have any heroes on multiplayer, it's just a wc3 thing.
It may sound "cool", but you already have unique units like the imba mothership.

[orphean]

Ugh no WC3-heroes in my SC. I like the SC1 way of doing it. Heros require way too much micro-mangement in WC3 (which is fine since micro-management sort of defines that game).

[Bumbaloe]

Ugh no WC3-heroes in my SC. I like the SC1 way of doing it. Heros require way too much micro-mangement in WC3 (which is fine since micro-management sort of defines that game).


Would you be okay with WC3 heroes in story mode? I want them at least in story mode, but I'm fine with them being left out of melee maps.

[reject_666_6]

Would you be okay with WC3 heroes in story mode? I want them at least in story mode, but I'm fine with them being left out of melee maps.

What do you expect from the heroes in story mode? Kerridan had all her abilities available in the original. Do you expect her to start the new game with none, and have to level up to get them? And maybe even expect her to get new ones??? It doesn't make too much sense because she's always had her powers and there's nothing new to give them. The only way to implement WC3 heroes in story mode would be for Kerrigan/Raynor/Zeratul to start at level 10 with all abilities given, and that would make a leveling up system kinda redundant, don't ya think? ;)

[Bumbaloe]

Would you be okay with WC3 heroes in story mode? I want them at least in story mode, but I'm fine with them being left out of melee maps.

What do you expect from the heroes in story mode? Kerridan had all her abilities available in the original. Do you expect her to start the new game with none, and have to level up to get them? And maybe even expect her to get new ones??? It doesn't make too much sense because she's always had her powers and there's nothing new to give them. The only way to implement WC3 heroes in story mode would be for Kerrigan/Raynor/Zeratul to start at level 10 with all abilities given, and that would make a leveling up system kinda redundant, don't ya think? ;)


Eh, I guess I should've thought it out more. Maybe WC3 heroes in story mode won't be a good idea after all. I would like WC3 heroes in the map editor though.

[reject_666_6]

Yeah, I'd like that too. The map editor should be really fun once it's out...

[Bumbaloe]

Yeah, I'd like that too. The map editor should be really fun once it's out...


Yup, I just hope that we won't have to write our triggers from scratch.

[orphean]

If the map
Yup, I just hope that we won't have to write our triggers from scratch.


If the new map editor doesn't have a better way of doing crap than old SC1 triggers I'm going to cry ;)

Hopefully it'll be something much better.

[Bumbaloe]

If the map
Yup, I just hope that we won't have to write our triggers from scratch.


If the new map editor doesn't have a better way of doing crap than old SC1 triggers I'm going to cry ;)

Hopefully it'll be something much better.


Heh, I could never figure out how to do triggers in Starforge.

[qtpay]

Would you be okay with WC3 heroes in story mode? I want them at least in story mode, but I'm fine with them being left out of melee maps.

What do you expect from the heroes in story mode? Kerridan had all her abilities available in the original. Do you expect her to start the new game with none, and have to level up to get them? And maybe even expect her to get new ones??? It doesn't make too much sense because she's always had her powers and there's nothing new to give them. The only way to implement WC3 heroes in story mode would be for Kerrigan/Raynor/Zeratul to start at level 10 with all abilities given, and that would make a leveling up system kinda redundant, don't ya think? ;)


Eh, I guess I should've thought it out more. Maybe WC3 heroes in story mode won't be a good idea after all. I would like WC3 heroes in the map editor though.


So that people could make a dota out of that too?

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

Say Jim's your hero for this scenario. He's cruising about in his Battleship, the Hyperion. Bam, he gets blown out of the sky. Luckily, he had an escape pod with his trusty Jetpack in it. Leapin' around as a Reaper is mighty fun. At least he has that. Uh oh, Guardians. Bam, gets hit in the back, jetpack blown to bits. But due to his extensive work as a soldier, his reflexes are razor sharp and he leaps clear in time. Unluckily for him, he's only got his Marine combat suit and good ol' machine gun.

I'd say that's more or less plausible.


LOL.... I love how you put this =P

[Fenix]

Thanks. I thought it worked well.

:D

[reploidz15]

I have to agree with PainKiller.

Heroes like WC3 should never be placed within Starcraft2 in multiplayer, it complicates things.
to much pressings of "TAB" etc etc etc. Skill skill skill, bahhh.

It should be like Starcraft 1, where unit strategy is best. hero Skills just ruins the multiplayer experience.

On the other hand the Protoss mothership would seem like a hero, and I'm ok with that.

We might as well call it superweapons, I wonder what terran and zerg superweapons have to offer

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

Terran and Zerg probably won't have comparable superweapons... I think...

[TrustWorthyGuy]

Would you be okay with WC3 heroes in story mode? I want them at least in story mode, but I'm fine with them being left out of melee maps.

What do you expect from the heroes in story mode? Kerridan had all her abilities available in the original. Do you expect her to start the new game with none, and have to level up to get them? And maybe even expect her to get new ones??? It doesn't make too much sense because she's always had her powers and there's nothing new to give them. The only way to implement WC3 heroes in story mode would be for Kerrigan/Raynor/Zeratul to start at level 10 with all abilities given, and that would make a leveling up system kinda redundant, don't ya think? ;)
i agree

[WuHT]

The mechanics of units being able to level up would be great for the custom-map making community, which would extend the life of the game (but if SC2 is so awesome..who cares?!?)

[Fenix]

Would you be okay with WC3 heroes in story mode? I want them at least in story mode, but I'm fine with them being left out of melee maps.

What do you expect from the heroes in story mode? Kerridan had all her abilities available in the original. Do you expect her to start the new game with none, and have to level up to get them? And maybe even expect her to get new ones??? It doesn't make too much sense because she's always had her powers and there's nothing new to give them. The only way to implement WC3 heroes in story mode would be for Kerrigan/Raynor/Zeratul to start at level 10 with all abilities given, and that would make a leveling up system kinda redundant, don't ya think? ;)


Then why is it when you're fighting the Zerg/Protoss/Terran, on the last level, they're all tricked out and bam, but when you play as 'em, you gotta build back up? Or how about going from the original to the Expansion?

Or did I just totally blow your mind :o :o :o

[reject_666_6]

What are you talking about? Bases or heroes or spells or what?

You probably did blow me a fuse up in the ol' cranium. ;D

[coalescence]

Would you be okay with WC3 heroes in story mode? I want them at least in story mode, but I'm fine with them being left out of melee maps.

What do you expect from the heroes in story mode? Kerridan had all her abilities available in the original. Do you expect her to start the new game with none, and have to level up to get them? And maybe even expect her to get new ones??? It doesn't make too much sense because she's always had her powers and there's nothing new to give them. The only way to implement WC3 heroes in story mode would be for Kerrigan/Raynor/Zeratul to start at level 10 with all abilities given, and that would make a leveling up system kinda redundant, don't ya think? ;)


I totally agree but I don't think blizzard gives a ****. Remember the low leven Grom Hellscream in wc3, while he was already a warhero in wc2.

[Fenix]

What are you talking about? Bases or heroes or spells or what?

You probably did blow me a fuse up in the ol' cranium. ;D


Ok, so, in the Zerg campaign in the original, you're up against the best the 'toss can toss (Pardon the pun) at you. Reavers, Carriers, all that. Then, when you become the 'toss, you start out with Fenix, four Zealots, and a Dragoon.

And your probes can't warp jack crap.

[reject_666_6]

Ohhhhhhhh, now I get it.

But wasn't the first Protoss mission located in the small garrison of Antioch? (i can't believe I remembered that on my own...) That was far from where the Protoss were givin' their best against the Zerg, as far I as can tell...

[Inside Sin]

I think they should use the simple, yet effective way of ranks.

The more units the unit kills or the more dmg it deals, the higher rank it gets.

Either that or the LVLing would be awsome.

[PeterPetreli]

They don't want to make it focused on micro managing heroes. SO I doubt they will have levels. I think heroes will just be stronger than normal units, maybe extra abilities. But no leveling, doubt that.

[reject_666_6]

^^You mean like ranks in C&C, like Veteran or Elite?

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

They don't want to make it focused on micro managing heroes. SO I doubt they will have levels. I think heroes will just be stronger than normal units, maybe extra abilities. But no leveling, doubt that.


I think so too... that's one of the big differences between Starcraft and Warcraft... imo and the o of many others.

[capthavic]

I heard from PCGamer that they won't have heroes like in Warcraft 3 (won't pick up items, no levels, etc.).

[Singuris]

I heard from PCGamer that they won't have heroes like in Warcraft 3 (won't pick up items, no levels, etc.).

good

[reject_666_6]

No duh! There were no Items that heroes could've picked up. When you're armed with Warp Blades you tend to not use rocks as a weapon too often. Only workers could pick up some stuff, but not that much and it had no effect on them.

[Major Willy]

I just hope I can locate my hero using F1 and such. No leveling was fine in Starcraft. Give them some unique abilities and boosted stats yeah.
Picking out the teal marine in a sea of red was a tad frustrating.

[Whor]

It will be realy cool for the new heroes of Starcraft2 be like war3 but only the new ones
Those that are from the original must be in the level 10 whit new abilities

[paragon]

I would hate any sort of leveling system in SC2. Heroes made WarCraft 3 really dumb when a high level blade master with a lightning orb could take out some armies by itself.
They should keep it like SC where it has boosted stats and different color for heroes. And they shouldn't be any bigger than regular units but a unique model for all the heroes would be cool.

[Spointz2020]

Im srry bout "reviving" an old topic, but ne wayz - I totally agree w/ most comments. The major component that differs hard core RTS action games like Starcraft from loosely strategic hero-based RTS games like Warcraft, is that the fighting is either straight out numbers, or tactical in SC - while in the more modern games like Warcraft and all, thers always the heroes that basically CRUSH the balance element of the game, and easily rape any unit/building once they lvl up enough - thus destroying purpose of much of the game's units and stuff. Unique model wouldn't be too bad, but i always loved how they just used skins for reg. units but retained boosted stats and stuff! And as for abilities... i guess it wouldn't be too bad to add like one typical-ish power to some heroes, but they can get rather imba.

BTW, about the heroes in campaign starting out a certain way, then taking up form of another unit if their "vehicle" or aquired form has been killed - Raynor should first turn into a Cobra or smth when his hyperion crashes! :p

[Fenix]

We actually talked about that ages ago. I doubt the thread still exists, but this is proof it's a common sentiment.