Stalker vs Immortal

[paragon]

I think the stalker is better than the immortal. I will give pros and cons of each unit and then tell you why the stalker is better.
Stalker
Pros
Blink
Fast attack
Pretty powerful attack
Fast movement
Cons
Relatively weak shields/hp

Immortal
Pros
Hardened Shield
Pretty powerful attack
Cons
Slow attack
Slow movement
Pretty weak when not against heavy hitters that activate the hardened shield

The Stalker is better than the immortal because the immortal is a niche unit while the stalker is a better all around unit. Stalkers will be able to blink in close to a unit such as a tank or a battlecruiser (in the case of the tank, rendering the siege mode useless as it will be within the minimum range) and focus fire them to kill them quickly. The immortal on the other hand will slowly lumber towards the siege tank and slowly attack it and eventually destroy all of them. This is why the stalker is better. It's fast, mobile, and can deal out lots of damage.

[hillzagold]

i agree that stalkers seem better, but they really are just support units. they attack while other, hardier units take the damage. but as you said, the stalkers blink will make them useful at taking out siege units. and, depending on the costs, their blink could make them a good meat shield in case the rest of your army needs to retreat.

[Meloku]

You're asking which is better- a sword or a shield. You can't even compare them XD

[Fenix]

Untrue Meloku. The best defense is a good offense, especially with choke point strategies evaporating.

[GuiMontag]

stalker and immortal are for different things, one is a scout/assault and the other is a sledgehammer.
i think the feel of each unit in game will determine which is better rather than stats.

[paragon]

You're asking which is better- a sword or a shield. You can't even compare them XD

You can parry a blow with a sword and then return for a counterattack.
You can block a blow with a shield and then hit the opponent with the shield.


one is a scout/assault and the other is a sledgehammer.

Which is the sledgehammer exactly? I assume you mean immortal except that it's damage is more like a rubber mallet.

[burkid]

stalker all the way.
and another unconfirmed con for immortals:no air attack
you should make this a poll

[Ghost]

If you actually up a Stalker and an Immortal 1v1 solo, the stalker wins.

In a battle Stalkers seem to be brilliant base raiders, while immortals are spearhead shock/assault tanks. They can both deal equaly serious damage in their own ways.

EDIT: paragon, you forgot the Immortals high hp in its pros, even without its hardened shield it has a pretty high consitution.

[Light]

the immortal wins, 1v1, it will just blow the stalker out of air before it could kill him.
its hard to say which one is better, they both got their uses,and will better perform in different situations.

[Skylark]

I would think that, based on the demo, a stalker would defeat an immortal 1v1, as the immortal is more suited to anti-heavy artillery/battery/shock fire. Since its anti-shock shied (overshield?) severely deflects heavy hits, it would seem that a balance would be that its more vulnerable to medium and light weapons than normal. Then again, the immortal, being ranged, takes away the stalker's (arguably) best ability-blink.

But I think they really are far too different to compare; especially since we still haven't seen the final versions. Time will tell...

[DontHate]

but still. the hp and shields of a immortal are much greater.
it all depends if immortals can attack air and what else the hardened sheilds activate upon. if it's only reavers and tanks i find them pretty useless. also i dont think the stalker is that great of a fighter even with it's moderatly high attack damage. it's health is too low for it.

[Itsmyship]

The thing with the Stalker is that you have to be smart with it. I personally love the stalker more than the immortal because 1)It looks so awesome and 2) They seem to be the unit that you just can't make an assault without. In a 1v1 between stalker and immortal, i would say stalker would win, just because it can just eat up an immortal little by little

[hillzagold]

keep in mind that the immortal will probably cost a lot of resources

[CodyFallsForth]

I can see the immortal being used to head an assault on a sieged area while the stalkers blink to the flank of the tanks.

Once inside minimum range, take the immortals out of range and its gg tanks.

[paragon]

Do realize that nobody is dumb enough to keep tanks in siege mode if any unit especially melee units are right on top of them. Also, if the only attackers are immortals, nobody is dumb enough to stay in siege mode. Siege tank in tank mode > immortal. I'm sure.

[burkid]

except we dont know sh*t bout the tanks stats yet, so it might just suck in tank mode.

[Zergme]

i think they both have the ups and downs i do like the stalkers blink power will greatly make them better but the immortals are great for tacking the front for like an massive attack as the stalkers blink int from the side or somthing it would be great so i think used togeather they would ****ing kill

[hillzagold]

mebbe not. things like regular siege tank, battle cruiser, and warp rays might still activate the immortal shield.


immortals would actually probably be useless in a frontal attack, they would be destroyed in seconds by things like other immortals and stalkers, marines, and zerglings and hydras would tear the immortals apart

[GuiMontag]

lol why do people think immortal is weak.
atm
immortal has 100 sheild, 240 hp, about 4 shots to kill reaper
stalker has 60 sheild 120 hp, about 3 shots to kill reaper

[hillzagold]

yeah, and stalkers probably cost half as much to make

[GuiMontag]

thers no point speculating on build times, cost, population. to firgure out which is best, stalkers could be tier 3 for all we know

[hillzagold]

and there's no point speculating on what the immortal shields will work on. it could be useless in a normal fight, for all we know.

[[LightMare]]

Quote: Larger than message.

it's wrong to say that. against a siege tank, an immortal would win. against 4 zerglings, a stalker would win. it all depends on the context in which the battle is taking place

[burkid]

against a siege tank, stalker could win. blink into minimum range, pound on it while it undeploys, kill it.

[Ghost]

Stalker can kill things that the immortal may be able to kill too, but not as efficiently as a Stalker.

[paragon]

elementt, you do realize i'm taking actual in game things and not 1 unit vs 1 unit right?

[T-man]

The only problem with saying that the Stalker's Blink ability is "OMGWTFL33T!!!1!one!!!1" against Tanks is that from what I saw in the vid, the Blink range is roughly half of a ST's siege range. That means that a stalker would take at least two blows from the ST. While that isn't enough to kill one, you'll still end up hurting, especially if there are multiple tanks, with support. I'm thinking that Stalkers and Immortals may be best when combined. When assaulting, march the Immortals in first, and once the first ST barrage has fired, run the Stalkers up close to the Immortals, and then Blink into minimum range of tanks.

[LimaBeanMage]

I say it really depends on their situation. Stalkers are built to handle small units and are designed as flankers/surprise attackers, I wouldn't image they can handle big units that well. Immortals, on the other hand, are painfully weak to small units but really effective against really powerful units.

[Light]

yes, but also in the gameplay/artwork video we see a bunch stalkers getting killed by some marines pretty easily. its cool, but not as strong as u think.

[burkid]

theres also like 20-30 marines there... of course you're gonna have some losses.

[Zergme]

it's wrong to say that. against a siege tank, an immortal would win. against 4 zerglings, a stalker would win. it all depends on the context in which the battle is taking place

ive got to agree with you there we dont know yet we dont know anything about zerg and not much about terrain

[GuiMontag]

immortals arnt painfully weak to small units. the immortals in the gameplay trailer took a pounding from about 5 seige tanks and then took on the reapers. they still managed to take out like 5 reapers which is pretty good lol

[burkid]

their shields are completely normal to weak attacks, they are just strengthened from strong attacks.

[hillzagold]

but the question is, what attacks are strong?

[DontHate]

i sould say yamato, siege, reaver, baneling, collosy maybe, and psi storm maybe.

[paragon]

I doubt the colossus is a heavy attack. Though it may be. Maybe it's plague resistant too assuming plague is still in the game.

[hillzagold]

was aircraft ever effected by plague?

[paragon]

yes, every unit was affected by plague

[Lemonparty]

Stalkers are either harrassing units, units that kill ranged units (siege tanks are the best example) or they can be an excellent unit to give yourself some time for the real army to arrive. Those 4 stalkers kept the zerglings busy for like 30 seconds and the guy wasn't really paying attention either, he just blinked and stood there instead of running to a high cliff or running/attacking/running/blinking when zerglings are close.

[paragon]

Yeah had the guy actually wanted the stalkers to stay alive, they would have been fully capable of doing so.

[DontHate]

yea the stalkers are definatly good at fleeing.

[Itsmyship]

On top of all that, if the stalkers hadn't used a lot of energy chasing the reapers, they would've had more chances to blink away from the lings.....God i love the stalker :)

[burkid]

blink has a cooldown, not energy.

[Itsmyship]

Hmmm...I see, I thought they just ran out of energy when they just stopped blinking. Maybe the person just wanted them to die so he could show off the Colossus next. :)
I actually really love the fact that it's a cooldown and not this energy nonsence :P

[burkid]

yeah it has a 10 second cooldown on blink. i just counted

[Itsmyship]

Nice...Stalker might become my favorite unit ever...not official though until I see what the Terran got in store for me! :P

[DontHate]

cool. i didn't know it was just cooldown. sounds like it might be good for killing workers wiht their blinking onto ledges and whatnot.

[Major Willy]

Blink behind enemy minerals and grab some popcorn.

[Major Willy]

2 vs 2 Terran and Protoss VS Whatever and Whatever.

Scan their base. Found it?
Move in some Stalkers, scan the ledge next to them, have them blink up.

[paragon]

or just get a handy dandy observer. your eye in the sky.

[burkid]

2 vs 2 Terran and Protoss VS Whatever and Whatever.

Scan their base. Found it?
Move in some Stalkers, scan the ledge next to them, have them blink up.

a)you could use an observer
b)you could have a ton of reapers accompany them.

[Monan]

i think the stalker will be better.

[Outcaster]

i like them both

[Ych9]

Stalkers are basically the Dragoons in SC2. The only things that seperates them is that Stalkers can blink. Another thing is that Dragoons seems to have a better range. That is, we are assuming if the Stalkers aren't recieving an upgrade that can make them shoot further. But I believe the Stalkers won't have the same range as the Dragoons because of the Blink ability.

As for the Immortals, I think they serve a totally different purpose than the Stalkers. Look at their HP and shields. They have like 100 shield and 240 HP. That is more than twice the HP than the siege tanks, that is if the siege tanks HP stay the same for SC2. I think the Immortals role in Sc2 are very similiar to the Ultralisk in that they work as sponges. Except they will also be good vs powerful weapon units and beat the smaller target units if they aren't overwhelmed. To compensate that, they will most likely come at a higher cost, and probably have a higher tech-tree and build-time, so that they won't be easily massed. Because if the Immortals are massable, I think they would really dominate the ground forces. They won't fear any heavy weapon units, or any small units to overwhelm them. Simply put, they would dominate any ground armies if you don't have any air units to counteract them. We are assuming that it can't hit air units because they don't seem to be hitting any air units in the gameplay video.

So yea, I think they serve two totally different purpose. Immortals will serve more like a tank or sponge (similiar to the Ultralisk) and Stalkers more of a harrassing unit.

[burkid]

there was no air for immortals to attack in the gameplay vid...

[Ych9]

there was no air for immortals to attack in the gameplay vid...


They weren't attacking the BattleCruisers in the last scene. They were also within the range to attack. If they were to attack the BattleCruisers, you would be able to see them attacking it while also attacking the ground unit because in SC2, units with anti-air attack and ground attack have seperate cooldowns.

[Protoss Kills Infinitely]

i just checked that and ure right they were within range and didn't even notice them :powerup:

[hillzagold]

why is everyone trying to find some parallel between new units and old units? let it go.

stalkers have blink, to increase their speed, meaning that enemies cant run away as easily, good for endgame, and not completely useless during battle either

immortals have good sheilds and hp to soak up damage and take out the strong units, good as lead units in battle, but useless when the enemy, or you, are running away

[DKutrovsky]

The heavily armed and shielded immortals give critical fire support to the ferocious legions of zealots by eliminating enemy artillery and ranged attackers, allowing the zealots to close in and complete their work of destruction.

Immortal > artillery + ranged enemy
Stalker > melee + short ranged units, harraser, chaser

If the stalker is considered large, it will take 2 shots from a siege tank to die. I wouldnt scratch off the immortal for one second...

[paragon]

and all a siege tank has to do is either:
1) get out of siege mode if they are being attacked by only immortals
2) target the units that aren't immortals in mixed unit armies

[shadow]

the immortal would own the stalker in an instant.
i am not saying that the stalker is a poor fighter but the immortal is the dragoon replacement, and everyone knows that the dragoon is a devestating weapon.

the immortal is grate in the last time of a game. then everyone have battlecrusiers and stuff. and the immortal would seam cheep at that stage.
slow firerate? just add some more immortals to your attack force
and if you are having truble with its speed then put it in a shuttle/phase prisme


the immortal must be one of starcraft 2s best creations had it not replaced the almighty dragoon.

[paragon]

no the immortal is the storyline replacement. the stalker is the functional replacement. Look how fast the stalkers take down a battlecruiser. And that was just three of them. Stalkers will cost less than immortals so you would always be able to build more of them. And they won't activate the immortals heavy shield so stalkers will blink in, rape them, and blink out.

[hillzagold]

stalkers could be useful to soak up damage too

think about it, if you have a few dozen stalkers in a battle first, they have enough firepower to take out plenty of units before they come close to dieing, then you blink them behind the fresh troops, twilight archons and soul hunters and the like.

[EonMaster]

I think the stalkers would be better fighters because of their blink ability

If an enemy army is retreating because of heavy losses, blink the stalker into the group and watch the enemy fall, the stalker would also be good to attacking separated units and for raiding resource bases they may have on the map

when reinforcements arrive, just blink out of sight and harass them somewhere else

[BirdofPrey]

Neither is better than the other. They are usefull in different situtions

[EonMaster]

guess your correct but the issue will be how many times each useful situation will actually occur in battle; whether that be against computers or people

on battle.net, some situations occur much more often than others so experience and strategy will determine which unit will be a better idea to produce in each game against each opponent

another situation would be if your fighting a Korean. In that case, it won't matter because you're already as good as dead :(

[BnechbReaker]

i think the immortal will only have a limited use, it can't attack air and its expensive. the stalkers will be used much more as they are good in all situations, dragoon was widely used in sc1, stalker is like dragoon with blink on top, making it even more versatile

[EonMaster]

I agree the added blink ability add to the effectiveness of the stalker in combat whether that is chasing fleeing troops or to blink behind the enemy to surround them

and the AA will help the protoss who aren't known for excellent AA capabilities

[Hodl pu]

If an enemy army is retreating because of heavy losses, blink the stalker into the group and watch the enemy fall, the stalker would also be good to attacking separated units and for raiding resource bases they may have on the map


I love that idea. Makes me want to try it, imagine a front line of Stalkers ripping through enemy forces. When low HP, blink behind immortals and zealots. Or perhaps, you can send in zealots on other melee units, then use stalkers to sandwich them.

[EonMaster]

I think that was the main idea behind the ability blink, to sandwich the enemy so there is no escape

"Death by the blades of Aiur"

[Hodl pu]

Oh, I saw their original purpose as a unit that can chase down fleeing units. But I guess that can go into the same section.

[hillzagold]

immortals sound to me like shock troops, to use when the enemy has a wall of siege tanks or such

[josh]

Immortals are like smaller versions of Thors.

[coreyb]

Kinda true actrully , and immortal's can attack air unit's , because they just look like the unit that can and it's a good GTA sort of unit (GTA = Ground to Air) :)

[josh]

Yes. For now, I don't see the Immortal having a severe weakness except for the fact that it's kinda slow-moving.

[EonMaster]

But it gets defeated easily by fast ground troops like marines and zealots

[CaptainPicard]

One thing that seems to be left out here is that the Stalker and Immortal likely deal different kinds of damage. The Immortal seems to deal explosive damage, or at least something that works well against large units, but not against small units. It was the same with the dragoon and marines in the original Starcraft.

The Stalker, on the other hand seems to be dealing normal damage, as evidenced by how easily it took out those Zerglings and Reapers. (I tend to like normal damage better, as in the original Starcraft that was the best damage type--but, as in WC3, they may change things so that normal is still a good damage type but not indisputably the best.)

That's another thing to consider about the value of each unit.

[EonMaster]

Also what units your enemy is producing so you can balance out your forces of immorals vs. stalkers to meet the threat you are currently facing

[BnechbReaker]

Yes. For now, I don't see the Immortal having a severe weakness except for the fact that it's kinda slow-moving.


it cannot attack air

[coreyb]

Yes. For now, I don't see the Immortal having a severe weakness except for the fact that it's kinda slow-moving.
Yeah it may look like a spider but doesn't mean it will move as fast as a spider , and I still beleive that they will be able to attack air! , reaper's will own the immortal's so that's a good counter attack :)

[EonMaster]

it may not be fast, but it doesn't need to when fighting the units it was designed to face, however, it will be pwnd by many other units

the stalker my be seen as the opposite, its blink ability will make it the fastest unit in the game with instant teleportation and would be harder to kill since a veteran player will teleport away when the battle is turned against them

[coreyb]

Indeed so it able to attack air is fair! , just think about it :)