Weak Units

[I)4rk]

Since Blizzard is deciding to pump out overpowering units, who would want to even use rines? I mean so far, they get pwned by the colossus, reaver, high templar, and the soul hunter. So honestly, if blizzard keeps up this massive overpowering units just to balance this out, it typically is not going to work because no one will want to use the weaker units.

[Nikzad]

no, weaker units can do well against some larger units, but not one on one

ie lings vs. goons
hydras vs carriers
hydras vs BCs
marines vs BCs
marines vs carriers

and not everyone relies totally on marines for all of their ground forces for the entire game
by the time a protoss player has the units you listed, a terran player should have the required units to counter them - basically, siege tanks

if they don't have tanks by the time a protoss player has a colossus, then fugeddaboudit the game is done

[for-glory]

well said.
banelings seemed pretty strong too, though that may be late game. I guess that makes it so that zerglings are always useful.

[Peter.Hong]

You're forgetting that the weaker units are cheaper. Obviously the likelihood of these units being used late game will be lowered based on more effective powerful units but the thing about them is that they cost more. Also being able to afford One strong unit or 8 marines i would prefer the 8 marines because of the damage dealing output is better. One strong unit can dish out however much dmg until it is destroyed. 8 marines can inflict lets say 10 dmg per marine (im just estimating i haven't played SC in years) then when one dies, 7 marines can still deal 70 dmg...and so on and so on thus making the group more effective. In my past game experiences I never noticed marines being used late game anyways. If someone went carriers you would go wraiths/the other things...goliaths i think they were called. Marines were just for early/earlymid game and if they were used late game it was because they were (like me as a noob to this forum) cannon fodder.

[ninerman13]

I wouldn't worry - Blizzard did a great job of making the early tier units important in the original Starcraft , I have no doubts about this sequel.

[kehmdaddy]

Plus with marines keeping stimpack, keeping their range upgrade, getting the shield upgrade boosting their health by 15, and still having medics around to heal them... I think they're still a very viable weapon.

[Ych9]

The weak units will still be very useful.
Zealots got the new charge ability. Combined with their decent HP, they can still be used well into late games.
Marines like kehmdaddy stated, will also been getting a lot of boost. Even though units like the Reavers, Psi Storms, and Collossus will be owning them, the Marines will be a good counter to the Warp Rays. Not to mention, M&M's in SC2 are going to be a very deadly with the introduction of the shield upgrade for the marines and the Reactor add-on for Terran Buildings.

[Dreadnought]

Watch tournaments and you will see the pros using zerglings througout the entire game. Heres a couple reasons why. Small units are more maneuverable and also usually have amazing upgrades. Marines get insane range upgrade, stim packs, and medics to boost them to 3x strength. Zerglings get almost 50% increased movement speed and double attack speed. Zealots just get bonus movement speed but their already strong lol. Another thing is usually those smaller units take only minerals or a little bit of vespene gas. Usually you have far more minerals then vespene gas so the only thing you can spend it on is smaller troops. Also small troops usually have a slightly higher damage to hitpoint ratio. The only bad thing about small units is they are affected by armor ALOT more. Carriers have 4 base armor making marines only do 2 damage per hit (ouch). Other than that small units are great. Also note small units make great distractions for your more expensive units to live. (reaver fires at zerglings rather than a defiler or lurker)

[BaneOfHumanity]

The banelings....why do those little green balls remind me of Critters so much lol

[Griffith]

Like many have said already, the marines will have enough upgrades to keep being useful in late game. Also you have to take into account that their production will be faster this time because of the reactor addon which will let you produce 2 units at once, and the reinforcement ability of the ghost which to my understanding will create 6 or 8 marines out of nowhere.

[TidalSpiral]

I think you mean six or eight marines, but yeah I'd even say that the smaller units are getting the most impressive abilities so far. Zerglings have always been kickass, now they can bomb too. Marines are turning all kinds of tricks with those hardcore shields and bayonets. Zealots rush and it's mentioned they might even dodge occasional attacks but they might have not meant that literally. Ghosts and Reapers are both looking to be highly useful for being lightly armored units. The Dark Templar have a tricked out blade, there are just tons of weaker units that still hold so much potential. I do understand how it looks though, all these huge machines of death almost make you forget the hordes of ass kickers below them.

[marshal109]

ya im an ok terran player and i use marines to get the enemy away from my better units so really its not that the overpowering units will be the core of some ones attack the smaller units will help out in say thors getting away or somthing like that so really small units r still the back bone of the fighting squad

[Griffith]

I think you mean six or eight marines


Right, didn't realize I typed ghosts instead. Thanks for the warning.

[marshal109]

do u honestly think that we wouldn't care about weaker units the reaper is a weaker unit so we would definably care about the weaker units :powerup: :powerup: :powerup: :powerup: :powerup: :powerup: :powerup: :powerup:

[TidalSpiral]

I think you mean six or eight marines


Right, didn't realize I typed ghosts instead. Thanks for the warning.


No problem, figured it was better for me to point out than have someone go "OMFG THEY DROP GHOSTS??? WTFZORS!!!".;)

To be honest, I was always a Zerg player, using defensive structures and Hydras to survive until I had Defilers and fast Ultralisks. However with all these distinguishing traits I'm actually extremely excited to play the other two races. The Protoss are surely stiff competition, but the Terrans have gone berserk.

Speaking of which, the Hydralisk is probably my most anticipated unit. Despite all the different strategies in SC 1, the Hydra never became obsolete. Rarely did I ever fight a Zerg player who didn't have any (and wasn't a new comer).

[marshal109]

i played zerg for a while to and hydras seemed to be the basic unit

[GrahamTastic]

Since Blizzard is deciding to pump out overpowering units, who would want to even use rines? I mean so far, they get pwned by the colossus, reaver, high templar, and the soul hunter. So honestly, if blizzard keeps up this massive overpowering units just to balance this out, it typically is not going to work because no one will want to use the weaker units.

What about Marines versus Warp Rays? In the 20 minute game play trailer, the Marines totally pwned the new heads of the Protoss fleet.

[i2new@aol.com]

Well lets just say theos marines did not have stim or the shild, and non the marines were backed by meds. the marine is going to be one insain little bastered when Sc2 comes out

[BoydofZINJ]

The bad units are used for a number of reasons. First, they are cheap! Second, they are require very little tech buildings to produce. Third, most cannon fodder units require fewer control. Zerglings, for example require 1 "control" unit for 2 units! So you can, in theory, field a much larger zergling force than any others (in regular starcraft and BW). Lastly, many high tech units require gas and minerals and are slow in building and can mostly be beat by weaker units if not used properly. 6 marines vs 1 battlecruiser - who would win? The Battle carrier should be able to win, but its possible the 6 marines can out micro the BC. Either way, it is all situational.

[Nikzad]

I can't remember who said this, so let me know and I will edit the post and credit them:

I found a way to word it pretty well:
Let's say it takes 5 seconds for a marine to be killed by a battlecruiser. You have 10 marines. The marines attack the battlecruiser at the precise moment the battlecruiser attacks a marine. For 5 seconds, the marines are attacking at 100% of their possible damage per second or minute or whatever you want to call it. After 5 seconds, a marine is killed, and the BC starts attacking another marine. Thus, for 5 seconds, the marines are operating at 90% efficiency. After another 5 seconds, another marine is killed, and the BC starts attacking another marine. For 5 seconds, the marines are now operating at 80% efficiency, and so on and so forth. The battlecruiser does a steady amount of damage, but once it is gone, it's gone. It's like the binary system. On or off. BC or no BC. The marines, on the other hand, are like the decimal system, with greater longevity and utility, in terms of damage and effectiveness on the battlefield.

[JudicatorPrime]

In other words he means spam them.

[Nikzad]

how is what I said like spamming at all?

[Shadowdragon]

Marines and zerglings made a favorite combo for my friend and I. Zerglings run in and get wasted while the maries kill pretty much everything. With some scourges as backup, many bases fell before the onslaught of cheap units. The best part was how very little gas the strategy needed.
It was all spamming for us...

[Nikzad]

oh well i guess you could call that spamming (but I would just call it producing a ****load) but I don't know how my analysis could be considered spamming

[JudicatorPrime]

Victory through superior numbers, thats like the motto for spammers... unless its something like, "Ch0mG we pnwzt j00"

[Shadowdragon]

Hey, if you REALLY want a reaction, send in 100 SCVs, making them target minerals. The enemy will probably laugh at first, than start to get annoyed. They will send whatever standing army they have to attack it. Than the mutalisks move in. classic.

[Nikzad]

too bad there are few scenarios where you control SCVs and mutalisks.....;D

[FlyingTiger]

lol nikzad i dont think he meant they u are spamming in your post but "spamming" the BC with marines.

[Nikzad]

oh

ok

that's cool

be careful how you throw that word around...

"Spamming" is not a word I take lightly >:D :furious:

[Remy]

Most games are played and decided with all the lower tech units at tier 1 and 2.  How many games have had the outcome decided by oh dang got BCs/carriers?  Tier 1 and 2 units are the meat of the game.  And tier 3 only comes after you've paid your dues at tier 1 and 2 anyway.  You have about as much chance as an ant banging the ant queen in an ant colony to bring out tier 3 with a fighting chance, if you're not good enough at tier 1 and 2 to pave way for tier 3.

As most things that are higher(notice it's highER not high, as it is relative) tech in SC, it is very potent when your opponent is not prepared for it, but much less so when they are ready for it.  That's what tech rushes are all about, catching your opponent with his pants down.  DT rush, muta rush, carrier rush(gawd!), etc are all tech rushes.  You attempt to overwhelm the opposition by moving up to a tech that they didn't expect you to have or just couldn't prepare for it.

But as long as both sides are equal in tech, having weaker individual units because of racial difference don't mean jack.  If that had any bearing, the entire race of Zerg wouldn't even have existed as a player race in SC1.  Zerglings wreaking havoc in a base in a utterly chaotic fashion is one of the scariest things in SC.  No rank, no formation, no coordination, just a big scattered mess of 0.5-food, 35 HP, 5 damage units.

[marshal109]

week units will not go away, end of story, there to important a wall of rines(36-100) will take out a 12 zealot 12 dragoon rush and really i think we get the big picture try and kill your enemy as soon as possible using what ever means possible