Viking

[DKutrovsky]

I have a feeling that the viking may not be enough to keep the skies clear on its own. I dont see his big ship killing capability like say the warp ray.
Maybe we'll see one more terran air ship?
Thoughts?

[GuiMontag]

viking is the counter to pheonix and mutalisk. Warprays and tempest will be taken out by battlecruisers.
i agree thers probably 1-2 more air units for terrans that have not been revealed yet

[PowerkickasS]

yeah. id laugh if they freeze up like valks lol. i hope their unrevealed air unit is an aa barrage chopper even though that doesnt make any sense :P

OT: why cant it fire its missiles on the ground? and vice versa with its guns =(

[GuiMontag]

i think theres problems with translation. A different source says that viking will attack ground and air in mech form, and when it transforms it will only be AA

[DKutrovsky]

I believe so too.

But still we dont have a air fighter to counter tempests or other big ships as we are right now.
The Air Viking is most likely going to be valkyrie.

We all know how valkyries do vs bigger ships...

And battlecruisers are too expensive to be considered a counter, even then vs warp rays and tempests i dont see how the terran is going to do right now...

[Ych9]

I don't think Vikings will be the counter to the Phoenix. Remember, the Phoenix can overlord, which would most likely take out most of the Vikings. Vikings will be more of a counter to the Tempests and Warp Rays since Vikings are probably a lot easier to mass while Tempests aren't very good vs air units and Warp Rays aren't that good against smaller units.

[DKutrovsky]

Do we know the supply for the Viking? Im guessing 2?

I guess you could mass those to kill warp rays and tempests.

And than figure out a way to kill phoenix(BC maybe? ugh...) and zerg we dont know anything about besides the muta

[burkid]

viking > warprays, tempests, mutas, colossi
BC > tempests, pheonix, colossi
Banshee > everything on the ground

i think that the terran air is set, all they need is their aerial caster, and we know that dropships are back. that would make 5 terran air units. SC1 had 5 terran air units.

[Itsmyship]

I'm guessing Terran still have about 5 more units that need to revealed and I'd guess one would either be another air unit or an anti-air unit.

[Exvasion]

I hope the viking is not like the valkyrie, though I guess that is a possibility. I guess whether or not the terrans get another air unit depends upon just how much of an upgrade in terms of strength the viking gets when it transforms into air, which if I had to guess I'd say it'll be pretty strong. I mean, there really won't be any point transforming into air for the viking except to get places faster if they don't make it stronger as an air unit.

[Itsmyship]

Well of course it'd be like that. According to the Korean and German mags, Viking will either only be able to attack air in fighter mode or be able to attack air in ground mode but be a lot more vulnerable to them.

If I had to put my trust on one of them though, I'd guess the Korean one. You can't tell though.

[wukwinn]

Will the Viking be able to transform back-and-forth between the ground version and the air version? or is it a permanent transformation to air?

[burkid]

it can switch like a seige tank.

[capthavic]

why would it be permanent?

[Ych9]

Vikings can transform back and forth whenever they want. If they couldn't, they would probably be the most useless unit in the game.

[DKutrovsky]

Agreed, it should be a cool animation transforming imo. Cant wait for blizzcon ;P

[Shadowdragon]

Maybe it'll get another upgrade in the expansion that makes it half air half ground. Like, it keeps the feet, but can fly (for a limited amount of time).

[burkid]

^why would they do that when it could fly for as long as it wants in its fighter form?

[DKutrovsky]

I JUST WANT TO SEE THE NEW SIEGE TANK ALREADY!

[Major Willy]

Air to Ground: Slowly descends to the ground while pieces are shifting.

Ground to Air: Boosts into the sky and hovers there until reconstruction is complete.

[burkid]

ground to air: jumps in the air, does a backflip, and when the flip is done its fully transformed, the boosts away.

air to ground: flys under a bridge, transforms, grabs the bridge and flips on top.

[Major Willy]

Just for fun, the Viking should do a barrel roll.

[burkid]

yeah they should!

and really, they should be renamed 'starscream' just for the cherry on top.

[Shadowdragon]

Does anyone else name their units? I had a habit of naming all my overlords, as well as the battle cruisers and medics.

[burkid]

...what? do you mean give them induvidual names?

[capthavic]

How would you know which one is which?

[Patuljak]

Does anyone else name their units? I had a habit of naming all my overlords, as well as the battle cruisers and medics.


Oo

[Dxun]

Ctrl+1 is overlord freddy, ctrl+2 is overlord steve... so on and so forth lol

[DKutrovsky]

I guess you could name the mothership..

I would name 16s of zerglings :P

"All zerglings in ctrl1 is named Steve, all hydras in ctrl2 is named Jon"

[Shadowdragon]

Dxun's right for the battle cruisers. For the overlords, I know just from their locations. I build almost all my bases semi-uniform,so I can tell just from where they are located. Named overlords never have to do anything, they are to special. If you kill one, your dead.
Edit:
their names are:

Blimpy
Gimpy
Grumpalampacans
Theodora
Daisy

[burkid]

what if you get more than 5 overlords?

[ZiiDriX]

He probably always loose before he can get more :P

No offense :D

[surr]

i think the blizzard ppl say transformers when they made viking..

[DKutrovsky]

Having 16 of those babies...

You have 16 goliaths or 16 valkyries.

If you cant find a job for them, just make em into ships, go into the enemy resource line, robot form, pew pew, fly away.

Very nice indeed.

Fighting zerg? Go overlord hunting 24/7 than go back when the big battle starts. Or just keep killing their supply line.

I think i'll play around with that unit a lot...

[proswimma]

It might actually be an upgrade to transform to ground fighter or vice versa because the you need to buy upgrade to get in seige mode with the tank.

[burkid]

it is an upgrade for the viking to switch from ground form to air form (you build the viking in ground form). blizzard confirmed that.

[CapMan]

idk i think they will make it so there is some weakness so you dont do exactly that, becuase that would be alittle cheep

[PancakeChef]

They don't start out as being able to transform and you have to research an upgrade for them to get the ability to transform into the air unit. I'm sure there are gonna be other things to balance it out as well.

Thats why I want the Terran to have another air fighter unit because the Viking seems more like a multi purpose unit. If they don't they won't have an initial air fighter either. The Banshee is more like a tactial stealth bomber than a fighter or anti air unit.

[Ych9]

I'm willing to bet that there is some sort of time delay for the Vikings to transform. Otherwise, I think the Vikings transform ability could easily be abused. For example, Phoenix vs Vikings. If Phoenix uses overload, it would basically mean the end for the Vikings. But if the Vikings can transform into mech instantly, then it could then turn back into air form right after Phoenix finishes its overload ability. That, I believe wouldn't be very fair.

So I think that the Vikings will probably take 2 seconds for it to transform into different modes. (Kind of like the Siege Tanks).

[ninerman13]

Another possibility is that the Viking will count as both an air and a ground unit whilte it is transforming so that it could still be hit a few more times by an air/ground only attack before it escaped.

[zeratul11]

i think vikings will be the most spam terran unit in starcraft 2. obviously. poor thor and battlecruisers. =\ i hope viking have true weakness.

[Ghost]

I'm willing to bet that there is some sort of time delay for the Vikings to transform. Otherwise, I think the Vikings transform ability could easily be abused. For example, Phoenix vs Vikings. If Phoenix uses overload, it would basically mean the end for the Vikings. But if the Vikings can transform into mech instantly, then it could then turn back into air form right after Phoenix finishes its overload ability. That, I believe wouldn't be very fair.

So I think that the Vikings will probably take 2 seconds for it to transform into different modes. (Kind of like the Siege Tanks).


I agree, I also think that the transformation might take time like the siege transformation.

[Indigent]

Lol you basicly restated what he just said. Really thought, I don't think vikings are all that. You have only known that it can change into walker and fighter jet. What about it's health? Maybe it has super slow turn rate or fireing rate when in walker mode. Or that it is going to be worth more then the trouble. With seidge tank all it is doing is pushing out a really long cannon and shoving out 2 legs or what ever. With the viking it is changing from a walker to a a fighter. I think it is going to take more then 2 seconds. Has anyone thought of this? Before I thought it was going to be cool too but thought about all the other stuff.

Please do not flame me I am only saying what I think.

[zeratul11]

sure. i posted some time ago that the transformation of viking should be like 4-5 seconds.and yes 2 seconds is imba.

how about this? vikings in air mode has low armor or is easily killed by ground units and structures while viking in mech mode can easily be killed by air units. so like you need to switch to air form if you are facing air units and vice versa but if you are facing mix enemy units(ground and air) that would be the vikings weakness. or maybe not? ^^

[burkid]

actually, its the similar opposite of what you said zer.

ground form has AA attack similar to goliaths making it effective vs air, and gatling guns to make it effective vs weak ground. stronger ground units would be more effective against the viking as it loses a larger percentage of damage to armor.

air form only has an air attack, but has increased armor, so it would be harder to take down by air superiority, but more easily taken down by ground units or air that deal heavier damage.

[Indigent]

??? What?? Vikings use use a gatling guns to obliderate marines and missles to blast mutualisks into the next dimention. Walker mode can only attack ground units not air. Fighter mode can only shoot missles. Before you research Flyer Mode, it is completely useless against air units. You must be thinking of Thors. They have long range artillary and a little damage against air.

[TheOneInPower]

If you think about it in terms of balance, it would make the most sence that the Viking is a very expendable unit. Terran already have lots of heavy duty units, thor, battlecruiser, etc., they would need a light, cheap, (maybe slightly weak?), and easily massable unit.

Sounds like they need another air unit, though. A little lacking on the air front, yeah?

[Ghost]

Marines are massable, cheap and basically meat shields in late-game. I hope the viking is yet another heavy assault unit, terrans cant have enought of these.

[burkid]

Walker mode can only attack ground units not air. Fighter mode can only shoot missles. Before you research Flyer Mode, it is completely useless against air units.

no, im not thinking of thors. vikings ground form is a direct replacement of the goliath, including both GTG and GTA attacks. when it goes to flying form, it loses the ground attack but gains armor.

[zeratul11]

the mech form of the viking has GTA too? how did you know that?

now that would make the fighter form kinda useless assuming if the GTA attack of the mech form is stronger than the fighter form. Viking(air) will be mostly use for transport or to get on certain places(ex. cliffs) easily. and the armor of viking fighter will be use as a secondary option because in mech form you can kill enemy air units quickly and tanking(air form) will be often use(maybe against bc). hhmm..

[burkid]

it said so in one of the articles. and also said that air form has higher armor. also, if you look at a picture of a viking, in land form you can see gatling guns on the arms and missile pods mounted on the shoulders, while in air form you can only see missile pods.

i would assume that both air and lands air attack do the same damage, if not more in air form.

[Indigent]

Well, I really don't know what to think now. I already knew that you get higher armor for the fighter. I did not know about the GTA thing though. Can someone clear this up for us...?????

[burkid]

i just did. vikings get an air attack in ground form.

[Indigent]

I meant someone else that isn't us. So anyone else...? I don't mean to pick a fight I am just really convinced that walkers can't attack air.

[burkid]

thats fair enough.

[capthavic]

Now that the viking has been updated on the site can see it in action, what do you think? I think the transform animation is great!

This is gonna be my favorite unit in SC2 ;D

(Sorry if this is in the wrong place or done already)

[Lemmy]

They are the best terran unit ive seen so far. So versatile and cool. Terrans can now harass workers with reapers, vikings, thor barrage, dropships, tanks, banshees...

[JudicatorPrime]

Sit on its shoulders while it transformers... and be one.

[Gasmaskguy]

Iam probably in love too. I cant help it, but my eyes turns into little <3 when I see gatlingguns.

[Indigent]

For me they seem like the terran equvilance to a stalker. It is a light all terran (that can be walked on) unit that is not really that strong.
I just thought of something. If you didnt research fighter mode yet, do you think you could load a viking into a drop ship? The new drop ship can carry less though. Only a siege tank, or 4 infantry. That is all I know right now.

[Lemmy]

Terrans are becoming too punchy. They even rival the protoss firepower now.

[Gasmaskguy]

Yeah, the sound of a gatlinggun... Since its groundattack seems to kick infantries asses EXTRA much, you should either get them very fast when everybody is still makin marines, zels (agains the smallish zerg they would be efficiant against all the time I guess) or just use them to quickly make enemy workers die horribly.

[Remy]

I wish they made the viking's gatling guns fire near continuously. Just very fast but low damage. Burst fire just isn't what gatling gun is about.

[zeratul11]

i dont think those are gatling guns at all. in the concept art(three barrel canons) and starcraft 2 .com their weapons are called canons not gatling guns. im not sure tho.

[Remy]

The concept's different from the actual in-game model. Definitely gatling guns.
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6247/terranvikingmechjq7.jpg

[burkid]

they took out the AA attack in ground form. shucks.

[GuiMontag]

did we ever have a reliable source that said it had a ground AA?

[DontHate]

they took out the AA attack in ground form. shucks.

that would be way imba and make the need to switch to air a lot less usefull.

[burkid]

i know. i wanted it anyways.

@Gui, it was in one of the magazines.

[Indigent]

It took like 5 seconds to kill a SCV when there were like 4 Vikings shooting at it. This unit is only going to be usefull for covering dropships, raiding weak bases/hit and run tactic, rush in early games, or killing tiny units like zerglings. Gatling guns weren't as fast as I thought but atleast there is no time for transforming into fighter/walker.

[burkid]

did you not see them completly destroy the marines?

[Indigent]

But there were other things, not purely vikings.

[burkid]

when it first showed the vikings and they flew into the base, they destroyed everything there.

[Indigent]

Are you talking about the one on the official Starcraft II website or something? Because it showed like six vikings going into a terran base one was lost in an attemp to get in. When they landed, two SCVs were trying to build some more missle turrents and everything. They were both killed in like 10 seconds with 5 vikings. Then they all concentrated on a single turrent that did not even catch on fire in the first 5 seconds.

[burkid]

no in the terran demo they had yeterday. there was like 16 vikings that flew into a base and pwnd everything. until the tanks showed up.

[Star-Crap]

ok so in mech form they can only attack ground and in fighter form they can only attack air?

[burkid]

yes. and they move about the same speed in both forms.

[Star-Crap]

nice. so the viking is ur best bet for taking out colosuss

[burkid]

exactly. and tempests before they went.

anyone watch the part of the demo that had the single player mission where they had to get the artifact? what that guy should have done was stay air form for the colossi, then go ground form to take out the immortal and phase cannons, because the cannons were the only thing that could hit them in air. The cheating was pretty sweet though.

[privateparts]

It looks dodgy, what are your thoughts?

[Ghost]

I think it looks alright, although it did take 2 volleys from a large number of Vikings to take one already damaged BC out.

[AdmiralAckbar]

The viking air mode will probably be best used as a transportation method, fighting with it will be a last resort. Air to air fighting will probably be left up to preadators.

[Eye_Carumba]

The viking air mode will probably be best used as a transportation method, fighting with it will be a last resort. Air to air fighting will probably be left up to preadators.


Guess again: Predators have only 4 dmg without any sort of bonuses, and at a normal hit rate. They also only fire once everytime, so no hopes up for them, unless Blizzard pumps them up later. They will be a support ship for the vikings, just like the Nomad, making the transition from the factory units a little smoother than it was with the change between the Goliaths and Wraiths (in which you had to build many new supply depots to fit the new unit's needs).

viking's AA will prolly be the main AA until BCs.

[AdmiralAckbar]

The preadator doesnt fire more than one projectile?

[Eye_Carumba]

Yes, that's what their atk box shows: f it did 2 attacks, like the Missile Turrets or the Zealots, it would show 'attacks: 2' in the box.

[gelu_gao]

viking's AA will prolly be the main AA until BCs.

Yes agree. Spamming Vikings is possible as they are produced from the factories. I think a single Viking is not a threaten, but just like Mutalisks, Vikings have good mobility and cheap price. They can be the main AA in the midterm.

[capthavic]

The preadator doesnt fire more than one projectile?


Well they fired vollys of 2 missiles in the demo.

[LJYLJ]

The preadator doesnt fire more than one projectile?


Well they fired vollys of 2 missiles in the demo.


emh..give me link to that demo ;)

[capthavic]

The preadator doesnt fire more than one projectile?


Well they fired vollys of 2 missiles in the demo.


emh..give me link to that demo ;)


oops sorry I was thinking of the viking ^_^

[Gasmaskguy]

its kinda stupid if the unit dedicated to only do AA damage does less AA damage than a unit that can both attack air and ground....

[privateparts]

I don't mean the attack itself I mean the actual graphics of the attack it looks weak. Just two missles, a pause, and another two missiles. The missles should swerve around and there should be more of them. But same damage.

[TerranGod]

terran air-air is SUCKING REALLY BAD RIGHT NOW

we want wraith back, dont we guys?

[DaygoWop]

uh... have u seen the battlecruisers ???

[burkid]

or the vikings? or the banshees? terrans air is kickin ass right now.

[MarineCorp]

Hell yeah, the Terrans are totally into mass killing maybe they can 'pwn' the Zergs ;D... wait what!?.. that's bad for me! NO!!!

[i2new@aol.com]

the preadator will most likly get air-air splash since it's dmg is so freaking low, but if thats not the case they will get beefed up when they start testing the Zerg more. The reson why i think the preadator is going to get an update by blizzard is because they have not tested mass Mutalisk yet. I'v seen terrans own mass Mutalisk with only a few Valkarys.

[privateparts]

Look at the Battlecruisers attack in the first gameplay demo with the Protoss and then look at it now, ALOT cooler. They should do something similar with the Vikings attack.

[Gasmaskguy]

I think its boring that the Viking fires volleys of bullets just like Marines. It should instead fire lowdamage bullets with a quick rate of fire. And if not that, it should have a small splash damage. Just think about the area a minigun-volley hits! Its atleast bigger than ONE unit. So, whadya say?

[i2new@aol.com]

The Viking should have a constant line of fire. like a warp ray or colossus. but not the beam anamation. it should stay fireing on one unit untill it's dead or it needs to reload and not do the pop shot theam

[paragon]

And we would need more ground AoE why?
(I voted fine how it is)
Fast rate/low damage means it would take more penalty from armor and
As implied by my question terran doesn't need yet another unit dealing ground AoE damage.

[i2new@aol.com]

well i didnt like any of those choices. I would like to see a chain gun that fires on the target untill it's dead. like a warp ray or colossus. thats just my thought tho.

[StarCraft144000]

The fast rate low damage.

[paragon]

Fast rate/low damage means it would take more penalty from armor

[StarCraft144000]

It can transform into air though so fast rate low damage it does not need to be a strong unit to I mean like what if 20 come to YOUR base then attack and wiped you out?

[Joneagle_X]

The Goliaths had a similar attack to the Marines and it didn't make it boring. Also, splash isn't a good idea as it would make the unit a little too powerful in my book. This is meant to be a light fighter. Not able to stand up to a lot of units or powerful units.

[zeratul11]

yah i think its fine. but its kinda boring add some more effect on it. maybe we should see the "lights" (laser) of bullets coming out.

[brc9210]

You mean tracers?

[AdmiralAckbar]

Its fine how it is, it definatly doesnt need splash damage. It doesnt need any effects like tracers or lights, its a straightforward unit with straightforward animation. Simplicity is not a bad thing, thats why more people like goldeneye better then perfect dark.

[Quanta]

its fine the way it is.

[DKutrovsky]

I noticed it in the new screenshots on blizz's site.

[Chris Benoit]

They are flames from the jet engines on the back of another Viking.

Edit: After watching again the Blizzcon video of them, it looks like the Vikings' missle attack.

[capthavic]

Ya its just the missiles

[capthavic]

I think it should at least be constant becuase they are gattling guns and you don't burst fire those.

[BnechbReaker]

aerial flamethrower would have been fun, in fact any aerial melee

[DKutrovsky]

just looks wierd :)

[zeratul11]

so its called tracers, thanks.

add it. im sure it will help visually and also will make playing them more fun. marines should also get the tracer. CnC style, just to make every attack look powerful and cooler.

[Protosscommander]

Well VIkings are very flexible units wspecially when it comes to air attarc an or i mean counter attack...

[Broken_Heart]

I'm sorry, but what's fast rate?

I would like the vikings to shoot without so many stops, or just shoot none-stop.

[StarCraft144000]

Thats fast rate low damage.

[StarCraft144000]

It looks like its going to hit the other viking.

[Remy]

Fast rate low damage.

I think this has been brought up elsewhere before but we didn't have a poll. If it is armed with gatling guns, it makes no sense for them to use it like a marine's weapon and fire in bursts. I would rather see a very fast rate of fire(appear as constantly firing) with weak individual hits. The actual damage per hit could just be adjusted accordingly.

The armor is a non-issue because the viking's ground attack is supposed to be strong vs small units and weak vs armored anyway, if I'm not mistaken. The true gatling gun style of ground attack with very fast but weak hits will only make the viking fit that role even better and not as universally massable in a mindless manner. And with that change, the cobra would actually have a real use and be needed.

[paragon]

This is about the GAU-8 Avenger, a Gatling-type gun used on the A-10.


In practice, the cannon is limited to one and two-second bursts to avoid overheating and conserve ammunition; barrel life is also a factor, since the USAF has specified a minimum 21,000-round life for each set of barrels. Technically, however, there is no tech order limitation on the duration the gun may be continuously fired; therefore the pilot could in theory hold the trigger down and expend all 1174 rounds in one burst, with no damage or ill effects (though such an action would be wasteful and tactically unsound).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger

So, saying that it doesn't make sense for them to fire in bursts is incorrect.
I'm assuming that things like metal fatigue, heat, and general physics would still apply in the StarCraft universe.

And armor is an issue because even small units have some armor (especially when you add in the upgrades). Zealot and Dark Templar had 1 in SC so I expect it to be about the same in SC2.

[BnechbReaker]

i prefer fast rate low damage, but stop for reload once in a while.

however, a problem with very low damage is upgrades will become too powerful. e.g. if base damage is 3 then 3 upgrades with minimum increment of +1 will increase power by 100% and sometimes in practice the increase in power will be even greater:

against a unit with 2 armor, original damage is 1 per shot. after 3 levels of upgrades, damage becomes 4 per shot. 300% increase in power.

[Gasmaskguy]

then maybe they could have a specific upgrade for the Viking-damage. Like, you only need to do it once, costs around 250 min/gas and increases damage by 2

[Chris Benoit]

Not really. No.

[Meloku]

The viking is shooting the colossus on the right with a missile attack.

[[LightMare]]

how many retards does it take to analyze a little jet of fire in some screenshot?












































































7

[capthavic]

@Paragon maybe but it just would look cooler and give some variety to have it do constant damage.

Or even better it does more damage (up to a point) the longer it fires.

[Remy]

The Gatling gun is a gunpowder field weapon invented in the 1860s which used multiple rotating barrels turned by a hand crank. Unlike earlier weapons, such as the mitrailleuse, which had limited capacity and long reloading times, the Gatling gun was reliable, easy to load, and had a high firing rate. The gun was designed by the American inventor Richard J. Gatling, in 1861 and patented in 1862.

The Gatling gun may have been the first "machine gun", depending on how 'machine gun' is defined, as it was capable of firing continuous bursts of fire. Unlike designs like the Maxim gun, which operate the mechanism using a fraction of the power of the fired cartridge, the Gatling gun relies on external power, such as a hand crank, or motor. Some time later, Gatling-type weapons diverted gas from the barrels to spin the rotating barrels.


I don't really know much about how gatling guns really function to be honest.  But my understanding is that it is capable of continuous fire.  Now, we're in the futuristic world of SC with presumably much better technology and the Terran's general attitude is "let's just shoot stuff," so why wouldn't vikings just unload with all they got on thousands upon thousands of Zerg creatures rushing at them?  I think it's makes sense to do so.

My opinion on "fast rate low damage" vs armor remains the same.  I feel that being more resilient is a part of the zealot's design, it's why it was given 1 armor in the first place.  DT isn't basic infantry it's a tech unit, so it doesn't really matter, same thing with the medic.  At around 3 damage per shot and an attack mod of 1, unit base armor or armor upgrades are really not an issue.

[Chris Benoit]

Who are you calling a retard? I'll give you a ****ing German Suplex.

[UchihaItachi0129]

-.- wow lightmare. just wow.

[PancakeChef]

I honestly see nothing there but a effect, seems like your trying to imply there is something "behind" the Viking blizzard hasn't reveavled yet which I HIGHLY doubt unless they change something.

Also Lightmare don't be insulting people on the fourms like that please. You happened to post here too so...

[paragon]

I know tons about how Gatling-type guns function.
But since you highlighted that part in yellow I must point out "continuous BURSTS of fire."

Anyways, here is something from the marine's page on StarCraft 2:
"To preserve ammunition usage and minimize power requirements, the rifle uses a capacitor system to fire in short, controlled bursts."
Gatling-type guns of today operate by motor. There is no reason to think the terrans would use something other than some sort of motor to operate their Gatling-type guns. Also, this passage shows that the terrans do care about conserving ammo and that their general attitude is no "let's just shoot stuff."

As for why vikings would not unload all their ammo: The animation shows quite a bit of recoil from the short burst. Clearly the terrans have yet to overcome basic physics such as "every action has an equal and opposite reaction." Firing continuously over a long period of time would create entirely too much recoil for the viking to handle. Also, bullet trajectory tends to become even more erratic the longer a gun is fired. This is due to a variety of factors including that recoil I just talked about. I don't think the viking pilots would be too pleased when half of their bullets flew right over the heads of the zerg running towards them. By firing short bursts they can be both more accurate and conserve ammo.

[StarCraft144000]

I was making a joke about that lightmare.

[Remy]

Regardless of all that I still like continuous fire. When gatling guns are mentioned I always think of the scene in the Predator movie, I wanna play with that damn thing.

Some things in the SC universe don't make much sense at all. I will never understand why a shot of stim makes a marine or firebat shoot faster. I'm really not looking for a real world reason or SC lore to justify continuous fire, I just want it. Watching the thor unload and go buckwild with its artillery strike barrage thing is just so satisfying.

[DKutrovsky]

at first it looked like a flamethrower or something, but failed to acknowledge the fact that its the fighter viking.

[Joneagle_X]

Actually, you're both kinda right about the Gatling gun, but also a bit wrong.

The Gatling gun was abandoned in the early 1900s because of its inability to fire at a faster rate because when the barrels spun (it consists of a number of barrels which are spun and continously spun and fired) it made the weapon less accurate and became too hot.

They moved on to the more modern concept of a "machine gun" because the mechanism allowed for a faster rate of fire, less recoil, and a more accurate fire. Overheating is still a problem, but it is much reduced.

The submachine gun is another extension of this technology. They've recently come up with the "recoilless" submachine gun which directs the energy of the chamber ignition downward, thereby counteracting the muzzle's natural reaction of "climbing" and directing the recoil force away from the shoulder of the user.

If the Terrans could figure out a way to limit the amount of heat their "Gatling gun" produced, and were able to steady the barrels enough during their rotation so as to produce a more accurate weapon, then they could create a quite powerful device as, in theory, if you remove the heat, the revolving barrels should be able to effect a faster rate of fire for a longer period, since with numerous barrels there is less chance of the barrel becoming distorted from heat. Therefore, heat and friction are the two barriers the Terrans would need to overcome to make the "Gatling gun" an effective weapon.

[Duke Nukem]

Just because the weapon has six barrels doesn't mean it has to fire at 3000+ rounds per minute. They could just as easily have the weapon fire at 600 rpm, which is about average, and thus be within the reaches of current technology to brace it for continued, accurate firing. No need to worry about the barrels overheating as they only shoot 100 rpm individually, which is nothing for a dedicated machine gun, and should be adequately air-cooled by the rotations.

As far is it 'fitting' the unit's role... Well they mention that its main stength is that it's air mobile and will not fare well against dedicated ground-smashing units. So a fast rate of fire with little damage would be a perfect fit, being able to deal with marines, zerglings, and other small units while sacrificing its effectiveness against armor.

[Gold]

i think they should make the vicking curvier, i dont like this blocky stuff imagnie the vicking, but it has the front of a goliath on it.

[grrrr...]

viking ground attack is weak,,

[Wlck742]

I too want a machine gun style weapon for the Viking. It would go better with the kind of units they are: good against weak lightly armored units, bad against the big toys. Just like a machine gun.

I don't really care so much about gatling guns and whether they fire in bursts or not, cuz it's a game, and a sci-fi one at that. Blizzard could change its weapons descriptions to have the new one make sense. But really, in a real battle, a soldier won't be concerned much by the rpm or the history of the weapon, they'll just be trying to stay alive. Argue on it for all I care, but I just want it to have a continuous attack.

As for the upgrades, they could be miniscule, about .5 or .25 damage per upgrade. It might be a little odd to see decimals on the stats, but if it wrks, I have no problem.

[Protosscommander]

Well, Vikings ground attack are strong but sometimes, very useless when it comes to the Dark Templars now, even they can see those Dark Templars.. they are still in danger.

[Gasmaskguy]

Therefore, make it the Terran light-unit-killer. In the original you had 1 detector 2 lots of firepower to get rid of templars as fast as possible before they cause to much damage. To be able to counter them with a special units would be nicer

[freedom23]

fast rate like marines but a bit stronger... goliath style!!

[ToonMOG]

the way I see it the viking's strength comes from it's ability to change from air to ground, and I think it would be imba if the ground attack were to be stronger

voted: fine as it is

[paragon]

Actually, you're both kinda right about the Gatling gun, but also a bit wrong.

I wasn't wrong. I was not talking about the original Gatling gun, I was talking about Gatling-type guns such as the GAU-8. Other Gatling-type guns include The M61 Vulcan and the M134 Minigun.

Concentrated fire from miniguns on AC-119 Stinger and AC-130 Spectre Gunships creates what is known as the red tornado cone of fire seen here:
http://www.ac-119gunships.com/images/stinger/stgrphl000.jpg

[StarCraft144000]

Gasp!

[BnechbReaker]

looks like a giant harp

[Gasmaskguy]

i think it looks like a red tornado cone.

[paragon]

And people still think they can beat the united states. it baffles me.

[Gasmaskguy]

errrm... Vietnam anybody? That was not really a success for America..

[paragon]

Do you know why it wasn't a success for America? Because I do. I could give you a detailed response as to why exactly the Vietnam war was lost. But first I'd like to know how much you know about it.

[Wlck742]

Neither is Iraq.

[Gasmaskguy]

Yeah, Iraq too. And I dont care WHY they lost. If you gave me a detailed explanation about it it would not do any differens. USA still lost both those wars.

[Wlck742]

and North Korea, don't forget them.

[Gasmaskguy]

Yeah, i mean, people that think that they can beat USA don´t baffle ME for sure. America aint no bulletproof shield exactly.

[Wlck742]

Especially on the inside. I think America's biggest threat is itself, not others.

[Duke Nukem]

Well, depends on what you mean by lost.

The Korean war never ended (still going on, cease fire), and while MacArthur was in charge, North Korea got screwed up bad.

In Vietnam, the US killed 3 to 5 million NVA and Vietcong. We lost 50,000 soldiers...
The only loss of the war was due to dying support in politics. As soon as it became unpopular, it was doomed, because politicians needed votes, and the war wouldn't get them.

[hillzagold]

Well, depends on what you mean by lost.

The Korean war never ended (still going on, cease fire), and while MacArthur was in charge, North Korea got screwed up bad.

In Vietnam, the US killed 3 to 5 million NVA and Vietcong. We lost 50,000 soldiers...
The only loss of the war was due to dying support in politics. As soon as it became unpopular, it was doomed, because politicians needed votes, and the war wouldn't get them.
korean war was never actually a war, as only congress can declare war



dont say that vietnam only won because of dying support. everybody in the US thought the war was going great until the tet offensive, were north vietnam staged multiple attacks on massive cities. it was a helluva publicity stunt, and it damn well worked.



anyways, the chaingun the vikings have now can deal with anything moderatly well, unless it's heavy artilery, like siege tanks. that's exactly how it should be.

[paragon]

Sigh...
The United States won every large unit battle of the Vietnam War. A common saying about the Vietnam War is "we won every battle until we lost the war."

The Tet Offensive was a major turning point in the war. It showed that the Viet Cong could strike anywhere. However, the Tet Offensive was a military disaster for the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese. They thought that it would encite popular riots all over South Vietnam and lead to the downfall of the South Vietnamese government. This did not happen. Instead, the Viet Cong who, up until then had been largely unknown guerrillas, were cast into the light. Fighting out in the open many of them were killed. With their identities known, those that were not killed during the initial fighting were rounded up and imprisoned or killed in the following months.

There were also special forces leading mercenaries in the South Vietnamese countryside who went around to villages to find Viet Cong guerrillas. This was extremely effective in significantly reducing the Viet Cong threat. By the time the American forces withdrew from Vietnam, the Viet Cong were barely a threat.

Another factor that was finally helping the United States turn the tide was that the Chinese were no longer interested in engaging the US forces due to talks that occurred between them and Nixon. With this known, US forces conducted heavy bombing of targets in Haiphong and Hanoi. Before this time those were restricted areas and the US was not allowed to bomb there.

Unfortunately, US public opinion for the war was gone. Much of this came from the Tet Offensive, which, while not a military victory for the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese was a political victory for them, as well as the length of time of the war. Another reason was the fact that there was a string of bad governments in place in South Vietnam during the war. Anyone qualified to do the job did not want to do it and those who did do it were more often than not very corrupt. Also, the first leader, Diem, created many enemies by attacking various groups in South Vietnam and not listening to the United States in general.

The American forces withdrew in 1974 with a promise to the South Vietnamese that they would provide air support if the North Vietnamese broke the treaty.

For a year the North Vietnamese positioned their troops for a final push on the South Vietnamese. Their initial attacks were designed to be tests to see if the United States would retaliate against them. No retaliation came because Congress denied the use of any more US forces to help the US. Had Nixon still been in office it is likely that he would have kept the promise of providing air support. However, Congress was strengthened by the Watergate case and Nixon's resignation. So, the promised air support never came and the South Vietnamese were quickly defeated in 1975 due to poor South Vietnamese leadership as well as the broken US promise. Had the US provided the promised air support, it is likely that the North Vietnamese main force would not have swept through South Vietnam.

Also, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Thailand, and the Philippines sent troops to help South Vietnam. It was not an entirely American task. And the war only began to turn back to the North Vietnamese's favor when the United States shifted the responsibility of fighting back to the South Vietnamese.
And for another misconception about Vietnam, most of those who fought there were not draftees. About 20% were draftees the rest were enlisted. Also, the reserve and national guard was not sent there.

So, could the US military have won? Without a doubt. But our military is controlled by our politicians and our politicians supposedly listen to the public. So with the public rioting about the war, they had to pull out. Also, the military was kept on a leash for most of the war unable to strike at the targets that really would have made a difference.


And the UN 'won' the Korean War. Note that there is a South Korea. That was the UN objective, defend South Korea. North Korea was the aggressor. And while we're on the topic of the UN, the Vietnam War was going to be a UN endevour but the USSR voted against it for obvious reasons (they're Communist they didn't want to vote in favor of fighting Communists). So, with one veto, no UN action was allowed to be taken. And if you're wondering "Why didn't the USSR veto involvement in the Korean War?" The UN representative from the USSR was boycotting the UN because they would not let China in.

[hillzagold]

i'm well aware that the tet offensive caused major losses, i never called it a military success, i called it a publicity stunt. it was successful in that it got rid of the americans.

[paragon]

I typed that before you typed what you said. It said there were 3 new posts since I started writing but I didn't read them before posting. It was not meant to be contrary to what you said.

[hillzagold]

oh, nevermind then, carry on.

[brc9210]

Iraq also isn't a conventional loss. You cant really even call it a loss yet. To me theres different ways of losing if we lose in Iraq its that we didn't achieve all of our objectives not that whoever the hell we fighting over there kicked our asses. While someone might have the capability to stop us from doing something no organization or country has the power to bring America to its kness

[hillzagold]

we're losing because we can't get the right objectives. and we can't get them because we're aiming for the wrong objectives.

[Unentschieden]

This somehow went offtopic fast.

I would prefer a continious firering animation for astetical reasons only.

[Duke Nukem]

dont say that vietnam only won because of dying support. everybody in the US thought the war was going great until the tet offensive, were north vietnam staged multiple attacks on massive cities. it was a helluva publicity stunt, and it damn well worked.


First of all, during the tet offensive, around 30,000 North Vietnamese were killed. American losses were about 2,000. Had support not died, and American forces remained, the North would have ultimately lost due to running out of soldiers.

Not only that but the South Vietnamese were doing fine at holding off the North until the US cut the promised 270 million a year in aid in 1975, and after Russia broke its agreement with the US, giving more than 1 billion a year in aid to the north.

[hillzagold]

i'm well aware of heavy loses, it still forced america to pull out

[GrahamTastic]

You forgot to put the flamethrower in the poll. ;D


I'm talking about the Viking again, for those of you who have no idea what I meant. This topic is about Vikings, right??

[brc9210]

Flamethrowers makes Viking useless if it is same type as the bat had in sc1. This would mean that pretty much until terrans got to Siege tank we have practically nothing to take out heavier high armor units besides masses of m&m's. Add the fact that tanks are even more costly at 200/150 instead of the old 150/100 and you are putting a serious handicap on terrans. Imagine how hard it would be to take out someone who went fast stalkers. Once vikings punch through shield that flame is practically useless plus its short range. I think this also applies to the low dmg high rate of fire idea.

[BirdofPrey]

A minigun style constant fire does sound good but it works just fine soI don't really care. What I want is for the Viking to be able to shoot misiles while in ground mode.

[Remy]

Flamethrowers makes Viking useless if it is same type as the bat had in sc1. This would mean that pretty much until terrans got to Siege tank we have practically nothing to take out heavier high armor units besides masses of m&m's. Add the fact that tanks are even more costly at 200/150 instead of the old 150/100 and you are putting a serious handicap on terrans. Imagine how hard it would be to take out someone who went fast stalkers. Once vikings punch through shield that flame is practically useless plus its short range. I think this also applies to the low dmg high rate of fire idea.


While I also agree with you that I don't think flamethrowers would be a good idea for vikings, I don't think game balance wise high rate low damage for vikes would really be a problem. In that regard, things are basically as they were in SC1 for Terran.

TvP generally meant fast tech to factory and a mech focused lineup for the Terran, I expect the same in SC2. And as far as placement on the tech trees, stalker is the dragoon and viking is the vulture. Stalker even has the same HP/shield as a SC1 goon. Vulture on the other hand, had concussive damage which was 25% vs goon. So it really wouldn't be any worse for Terran vs Toss if vikes had a high rate low damage attack that is generally better vs basic infantry or small units. And the impact of the marine's shield upgrade vs Toss is yet to be determined.

Since blink would likely remain a researchable upgrade(instead of available by default), there is a timing buffer for the Terran, and a huge swarm of stalkers coming in from the back door while the Terran is utterly unprepared is unlikely. Also, fast tech to blink would qualify as a tech rush, and GG from it vs unprepared opponents(especially ones who don't scout properly) is not unreasonable.

[BirdofPrey]

Wouldn't the viking be more like the goliath since it can change into a form that attacks air

[zeratul11]

gta attack while in mech form? that would be imba plus your already have the viking fighter(jet form) for air to air attack.

uhm.... give them LASER chain guns in ground form! i wanna see the $*@# coming out! looks more powerful! than invisible bullets. same as with the marines! light effects please!

[Remy]

Wouldn't the viking be more like the goliath since it can change into a form that attacks air

Not in this case, because I was addressing the concern expressed by brc9210, and I did explain that it is in regards to their placement on the tech tree. The goliath isn't immediately producible at the factory and also doesn't have a ground attack that is good vs small but bad vs armored.

[BnechbReaker]

although on paper the normal damage of goliath in sc1 indicates that it should be as good against small as large. In practice the goliath armies has the upper hand vs zerglings / marines and suffers against dragoons / tanks.

implementing low damage fast fire will further enhance any (dis)advatages and make viking ground attack highly specialized, which is a good thing.

[Duke Nukem]

Stalker even has the same HP/shield as a SC1 goon.


Is this definately confirmed? If so, then isn't it basically just a super goon, with same stats except more damage, blink, and the ability to attack ground and air at the same time? Doesn't seem right, as I thought they were splitting the goon into the immortal and the stalker, one with high hp/shields, and one with high damage raiding abilities. (kind of like the Dark templar compared to the Zealot).

Not only that, but didn't the guy in the demo say that the stalker's were not that resilient?

[BirdofPrey]

We haven't seen what damage everything does yet. It may be that the marine does 12 damage base now and the tank 100

[Remy]

I don't know if it has been changed for BlizzCon, but from what we've seen earlier, stalker had dragoon HP/shield. Immortal has more though, so compared to an immortal, a stalker is indeed a *****. It is also a possibility that the stalker has 0 base armor unlike dragoon which had 1.

[Gasmaskguy]

And Stalkers probably costs more than the usal goon. like 125/50 or something?(since it can blink)

[pro]

i think im a retard i viewed the picture :(

[pro]

how do you know all of this stuff about sc2

[Wlck742]

We pay attention to the vids, interviews, faqs, whatever else info there is. Not hard, really.

[Gasmaskguy]

just a thought, anyone who knows/has a guess about cost hp and ground damage for the viking? is it like, gonna cost really much gas, or is it quite expendable? And the hp? is it around 100?

[proswimma]

that was a very offensive use of the word "retard" LightMare. You have clearly never worked with developmentally chalenged people. :bad:

[ijffdrie]

lightmare, at least be innovative with your curses, like; lightmare, just the sight of you makes children get nightmares

[Protosscommander]

I just want to ask if somebody of can say, if what is the viking's ability in Starcraft 2? :)

PEACE :thumbup:

[Hunter]

Maybe the pilot ate too much bean... lol Just kidding.
I think it is the missiles thruster.

[ijffdrie]

i think we're all finished with this thread*kicks thread in the nuts*

war
:thumbup: :thumbup:

[MarineCorp]

A very offensive word but if you're trying to joke around i guess that's O.K but seriously dont start calling us retards next time or this thread will become a....

war

[manaplague]

ah confusion and missiles a winning combination.

[DKutrovsky]

1. We have no idea how PvT will turn out, i still think that a barracks/merc heaven might be just as viable as a factory tech.

Having reapers will be too usefull to pass on,furthermore, i think M&M > stalkers. Also marines will be the meatshields of terrans untill you make Thors, so having them from the start to rush/defend/expand is not a bad thing, remember you can make several barracks and bunker push early on and just sell the buildings later on if you're not using them.

Also, no vultures means terrans might have some problems with zealots, so a bunch of marines might help a little in that department.

As for the viking, he's the goliath, but its strenght is its versatility not its stats. Cobras+tanks will be the damage dealers. Dont forget you cant mass up only 1-2 units in SC2, i believe that you'll need air units just as much.

[Drafter]

The amount dealt by the vikings looks like its only good for units(even siege tank actually before they turn to siege mode),might be weak against base defense.
The vultures might be replaced by cobras,they do resemble vulture in such a way that they look the same.....

[string_me_along]

personally, I like the high rate of fire with low damage. But either i think that the "bursts" should be longer, or that it does stop every once in a while to reload. <--- but then again, ammo isn't really a major concern in these games is it?

[Drafter]

They just want it to look realistic for a mobile robot tank to reload than to spray bullets at enemies...they should really have a huge damage count since they have dual gun.

[string_me_along]

/\ they also don't want it to be unbalanced. it can't do too much damage.

[Drafter]

freaking game designer....!^%#$%*
At this rate vikings are gonna be cheaper than siege tanks...probably(I don't like to make certainty over something that isn't certain yet).

[DKutrovsky]

Vikings should definitely be very cheap. Although they are a cool unit,they aren't very strong in terms of stats. They are however the only unit that can be built with a Nuc. Reactor for mass production. They need to be cheap so they can be massed and used in different situations.

[Gasmaskguy]

i saw/heard that the viking costs like half an siege tank, i have heard it cost 50 gas but hey it could be changed/ a lie

[StarCraft144000]

Well sense you guys are doing it I will to!
bang!
boom!
run!

[Drafter]

just 50 gas?Thats ridiculously cheap for a mobile robot unit but it might be a true...

[brc9210]

Well the Goliath was 50 gas, and hell the vulture was only 75 mins.

[Drafter]

likes see how much cobra is...looks like the vulture,though.

[BirdofPrey]

Well they are both meant for similar roles of being fast mobile units to take care of trouble spots

[Drafter]

hopefully the cobras are good with minor ground units and is it already revealed that they can lay mines too?

[string_me_along]

Edited out quotes. Please read the forum rules and refrain from quoting unnecessarily.

Nope the reapers got the mines. And as a previous poster was so fond of saying: Cobras are pretty different from vultures. Vultures were anti-infantry. Cobras are anti-armor and can also attack air.

I think that the vikings might take on some of the vulture's old role of being there in problem spots (both on air and ground) and taking out infantry.

[eskudero]

Edited out quotes. Please read the forum rules and refrain from quoting unnecessarily.

i think you are right about the vikings,i see them as antiinfantry and antiair versatile fighters,but i see them fragile against dedicated AA and heavy ground units as tanks.thats to say,good against capital ships and infantry,bad against light air and heavy ground

[Drafter]

Other than being a good anti-infantry they also looked useful against siege which aren't transformed into siege mode yet...oh and they look fragile,their hp might be low.

[string_me_along]

/\ they'll also make nice raiders. They can fly in, take light damage from missile turrets then proceed to destroy said turrets for a major drop from dropships of siege tanks and what not. or they can just drop down, murder the workers and then fly back to freedom. It's a little more difficult with the protoss, though. As phase cannons can hit ground and air.

Their best roles may be Terran v. Terran (though something should be said for annihilating zerglings)

[Drafter]

i agree with the annihilating zerglings possibly cause zergling are also a great threat when they come in numbers...other than that they still sounded awful...they sounded like homer simpson.

[BirdofPrey]

Well if they encounter zerglings they should take the out relatively quickly and if there's too many lings just lift off.

[Drafter]

oh yeah,totally forgot about the transform to air unit part...they only attack air when they are turned into air units,right?

[string_me_along]

/\ correct

edit:

Well if they encounter zerglings they should take the out relatively quickly and if there's too many lings just lift off.


That's when the hydralisks start spitting and finish them off.

The DT took one down easily enough (what one or two hits? it's difficult to tell with the cloaking). The mobility is awesome, and they can dish out some damage. But they are primarily base raiders and support... if there's any significant firepower directed at them, they're going down.

[Drafter]

^ I'm always right,I just put right?isn't it?ain't it?to look more....erm....gentle? <<< wow I did it again didn't I?again?<<<see?<<<

[The Vision]

I like the gun that they have at the moment. But i would not object if they were to change it to a low damage, fast rate of fire gun. They are some of my favourite units in SC2 so far

[Drafter]

Viking is unlikely to change,though.every unit that are officially reveal in the official starcraft2 website must probably are the confirmed ones.

[josh]

wow. this thread is focused on lightmare's post instead of the real topic. common guys. just stick to the topic and power him down if you really want to.

[Gasmaskguy]

well, you cant be 100% sure about that. The warp ray thingie have been on the official site for a long time, but they have changed it into the "dark" warp ray now, and as far as I know they have not updated it on the official site.

[PancakeChef]

The point is there is nothing to this topic but someone trying to make a visual effect seem like more than it actually is. There is nothing to discuss here, its obvious what it really is and what the Vikings abilites are.

Anyway, I think it times to close/end this thread or whatever.

[Drafter]

So what you mean is that there maybe changes in startcraft2 ?

[Gasmaskguy]

absolutely. They got a lot of balancing and stuff to do.
Many things have already been changed;
Mothership changed
Reaver scrapped
Bat scrapped(not 100%sure about that tho)
Soul hunter scrapped
Tempest scrapped/remade into carrier

Many things will change before the release.

[Drafter]

Why did they even scrap firebats from mutliplayer/single player game...wait....its not a total scrap..

[Gasmaskguy]

the bat and all the other dead units will live on in the editor, but the point is;
units that have been officially revealed can be changed as much as unreaveled units.
the warp ray, tempest and mothership where all changed, and they where all well-known units that had been uncovered a long time ago.

Oh and by the way! If the Viking ground attack where changed into fast low damage it would make a perfect infantry-killer, and that would be perfect since the Cobra pwns big units! Combining them would be great!

[Drafter]

They said all other unit that didn't make it to sc2 will be in the world editor?I did recall hearing that other than the firebats.Yeah units that have a lot complain are probably remodel/reset.

[freedom23]

vikings ground attack should be like the goliaths...

[Drafter]

I like Viking the way they are right now.

[freedom23]

agreed.

[Drafter]

W00t someone agrees...I'm starting to like this guy(not in a homo way).

[eskudero]

does anybody know how many damage do the missiles on the viking fighter do?and what amount of bonus damage does it have against heavy armored ships like carrier or battlecruisers?
i guess it will be something similar to what wraiths had,but after seeing the demo and watching the huge amount of vikings needed to kill a battlecruiser in one volley(even considering its a direct counter) im beginning to think it might be much lower.your guess?

[drdre]

I am interested in knowing this too.. I love terrains.. and plan on playing them mostly when SC2 comes out..

my guess is that it would be some what along the same lines as the Goliaths..... to make it the same power as wraiths isnt going to be nice thou :( .. took alot of wraiths to kill 1 bc in SC1 :(

[Inpox]

Hmm with bonus damage against heavly armored targets i would guess thier damage to be something between 30-40. it was about 10 vikings to instant kill a Battlecruiser. anyway vikings air attack is going to be good + vikings are cheap = great unit :good:

[Gasmaskguy]

yeah, it´s gonna be easy to mass with the reactor add-on(Marines too by the way) so getting that battlecruiser-counter will be cheap and FAST.

[Major Willy]

Vikings are my favorite unit right now.

I'm glad they're Tier 2 first but you have to research the aerial form. Does this happen in Tier 2 still or do you have to hop up to 3?

[Gasmaskguy]

I think you can research that right away, just like siege mode. It just requires that add-on. ( i only remember the reactors name... what is the other one called?)

[eskudero]

Hmm with bonus damage against heavly armored targets i would guess thier damage to be something between 30-40. it was about 10 vikings to instant kill a Battlecruiser.

dont think so.there were way more than 10 vikings to kill a single battlecruiser in a volley,plus you have to add that those 15-20 vikings have a bonus in his normal attack when atacking battle cruisers and to that you have to add that those battlecruisers were already damaged by turrets.

from what i have said,i expect them to have from 10 to 155 damage per volley, and maybe 20 with the bonus if they atttack capital ships.thats way too low IMO,but as you said the unit is cheap so it might be balanced. i still expected something similar to 20 normal damage,but its just guessing.

[Inpox]

Well its very cheap, if i remember right its only about 125 minerals and a few gas. and btw when i look it was about 14 vikings, didnt count exactly but i still think the damage is about 40 with bonus because i heard that bc's got more health now

[eskudero]

yes it is very cheap,from what we know its 125 minerals and 50 gas,but 40 is too much of an attack. battle cruisers had before 500 hp more or less.well,imagine that they have maximum now 1000 hp (i think its way too high),and also considering that most of the attack and hitpoints value remain the same or pretty similar, (for example turrets have a dual 10 attack = 20,the same in previous SC,so you can imagine that in consecuence hit points in aircrafts wont be very diffenrent as they were).

then lets consider this:
just saw the video,and made some considerations:
first,16 vikings shoot at the same time to a battle cruiser that stayed for a little bit of time under bunker fire,meaning that something similar to 100 hp were taken from him.thats to say,if we take in consideration (also speculation) that a battle cruiser has roughly from 500 to 1000 hit points,the BC would have now from 400 to 900 hitpoints.

then,those 16 vikings shoot at the same time for 2 volleys,meaning that the amount of damage inflicted by them varies between 200 and 450 per volley.if you divide this by 16 you get that the attack of each viking including the BONUS is in the range of 12.5 - 28. those are not really impressive numbers,considering that the bonus will be significant.

note that this is just a vast aproximation,not exact at all as i havent taken in account the armor of the battlecruiser or even if some missiles of the vikings were useless because they shoot simultaneously.

seeing this results i suppose that the viking anti-air attack will approximately be 15,without the bonus.its not really high but also the unit is not very expensive,so i supose its more or less balanced.

[Inpox]

Ahaa was it two volleys must have missed that. well you see i was thinking of something like that but instead with ONE volley.

[SOGEKING]

Transform ....


and Roll out !

[Lemmy]

You know, in SC 1 the early units were marines and vultures, now its marines and vikings (that cant fly yet). Both of them are a lot like the same.

[ijffdrie]

the early units are marine and reaper and were marine and firebat

[Remy]

There's not much point in trying to guess how much damage the viking's air attack does.  There are simply too many unknown variables at this point.

The 16 vikings killed the BC on the second volley, but it could've well been only 1 shot out of the entire second volley needed to kill it off.  In fact if you pay attention, you can see the BC exploding well before most of the shots from the second volley even reach it.  So now, we aren't even sure really how many shots took it down.

[eskudero]

note that this is just a vast aproximation,not exact at all as i havent taken in account the armor of the battlecruiser or even if some missiles of the vikings were useless because they shoot simultaneously.


i noticed that thing about the volleys being simultaneous and i pointed it here.still,in the second battlecruiser you can see that it needs more than a volley and a half,because some of the vikings shoot before the rest and there you can see that its more than one volley.anyway,i am just guessing,and thats actually what we are all doing as the game is not out or even finished.

[SOGEKING]

When a very damaged air unit still flies, we don't see any smoke of damages on it. It would be cool to see black smoke of fire on the damaged flying unit.

Unit, not structure. the MS (which is a unit) has fire on it when it is damaged

[Indigent]

That was before it was not made a super unit. Besides. Vikings are the equvilant of goliath, and a mutalisk. Mainly cause, mutalisks can be easily massed, while doing minimum damage. Only except, mutalisk will cost 100 minerals and 100 gas, if that comes to stay the same, while the viking will cost, 150 minerals, and around 50 gas?

[Joneagle_X]

I'm all for death and damage animations... but oh, wait, that would make people actually have a decent computer to play this game....

Shucks...

[Wlck742]

Unit, not structure. the MS (which is a unit) has fire on it when it is damaged


They might have taken it out now. I think the only reason it was there before was due to the MS having a limit.

[eskudero]

while the viking will cost, 150 minerals, and around 50 gas?


its 100 minerals and 50 gas at the moment.everything may change in any moment though.

[coreyb]

Not to bad for that kinda unit and anyone know the cost for a thor?

They pwn!!!

[ijffdrie]

600/600/6