Thor vs Protoss? lol gg [Archive]

Peter.Hong

07-24-2007, 01:39 PM

Well the thing is that Thor isn't meant to be alone. He's more of, as TidalSpiral, one of the great posters on this forum put, the proverbial "cherry on top" units. Thor's greatest strength would probably be that his artillery strike can be casted from semi-far away so he can cast it into a battle without really being in it and that he has the ability to decimate buildings. Best option is to either storm a base with thor and have your units in the battle while Thor works on the buildings, or if you can see a exp/base without good defenses while in the middle of a big battle that is a distance away from the battle, just drop Thor right in the middle of it since he will make quick work of the defenseless buildings while your enemy is focused on the battle you could deal alot of damage.

Major Willy

07-24-2007, 02:32 PM

Thor or two and mass Marines and have a handful of Vikings.

marshal109

07-24-2007, 05:34 PM

i agree thor should be used only with the cooperation of other units

TidalSpiral

07-24-2007, 11:12 PM

Awesome, gave me props for the cherry comment. One of my better sayings. :)

People overestimate Thor because of it's hellish firepower, and that artillery strike is going to be sweet for sure. Yet the Protoss have gone mobile and 2/3 of their units can probably easily out manuver Thor. He'll need support. As Hong suggested he'd be perfect for bringing down a base before the battle is even over, and wiping out expansion dreams (never thought of that, expansions are rarely prepared for that much damage - good box strategy).

PowerkickasS

07-25-2007, 08:44 AM

kehmdaddy

07-25-2007, 09:03 AM

Get rid of the Warp Rays with a handful of Marines. They're fast to build, that's a fast counter. ;)
We still have yet to see the whole Terran Armada, I'm thinking they'll get another useful flyer. Otherwise, it looks like Marines and Viking fighters will be all that there is to counter the Warp Rays. Oh, and I think Cobra are supposed to be good anti-air units. Maybe they'll move so fast the Warp Rays won't even be able to hold the beam on them long enough to power up? That'd be interesting, and incredibly useful.

Major Willy

07-25-2007, 06:56 PM

Yeah you saw how quickly the Marines took down the Warp Ray in the first SC2 video. The Warp Rays managed to take down what? 5?

Ghost

07-25-2007, 07:08 PM

How many marines where there, a full control group? (12, as now the unit selection is limitless)

Major Willy

07-25-2007, 07:24 PM

Looked like that and a bit more. They're going to rock even harder than in the first game with other infantry and upgrades.

I'm going to use Marines and Vikings for sure against Protoss and Zerg air. Maybe throw in some Cobras too.

burkid

07-25-2007, 09:57 PM

there was 14 marines, and 3 died, but keep in mind, the warp rays just took down 3 BCs.

PowerkickasS

07-25-2007, 10:00 PM

think marines and vikings could save a thor fast enough?
btw i forgot yamato cannon o_O

Major Willy

07-25-2007, 10:02 PM

...Why would you send Thor in alone and THEN throw in the other units?

PowerkickasS

07-25-2007, 10:05 PM

i never said that o_O

im thinking like when you've edged a thor as close to an enemy base as possible to reach all its guns on most units, then some warp rays (say 3-4) suddenly appears (maybe with a protoss force valued at about the same cost) then are there anyways to quickly kill them off before the damage-increase gets out of control?

Major Willy

07-25-2007, 10:12 PM

Hm. Marines could save it without it taking too much damage.

I'll have to see how fast the Viking attack is. If it's the new aerial AA it should be fast. Just look at the Wraith and Valkyrie.

PhantomFF

07-26-2007, 11:07 PM

If they have 3-4 warp rays...I'd say marines wouldn't be nearly enough to kill them before your Thor was taken out. If I were the protoss I'd bum rush the Thor, pull back and let the marines get slaughtered by my base defense. Loosing mebe 1-2 warp rays in the process.

wuffle

07-29-2007, 06:22 PM

If you got Marines, vikings and a Thor, I would get a warp ray and stalkers and immortals. All of these counter thor and the stalkers can take out the infanry while whe others focus on thor.

i2new@aol.com

07-31-2007, 07:16 PM

i would use reapers meds 2 thors and vikings. The vikings and reapers would harras you to death while the thors pound you into next week. But protoss have enough counters for a thor. The overShield on the Immortals would do well and the Tempest has a overshield for ground units but no shild agenst air. but there covered by Warp rays so the protoss are ganna dance on the terrans, untill blizzard shows more terran units

marinepower

08-03-2007, 04:53 PM

The protoss can easily just run in 6-7 immortals and kill the thing, since their hardened shield has what... 800 hp? All the immortals need are a few colossus to wipe out the small arms fire and the terrans attack force is decimated.

marshal109

08-03-2007, 05:34 PM

while the thors pound you into next week.

more like pound u into next year man

Warsaw

08-05-2007, 01:14 AM

i hate how everybody is treating thor like "omg my thor finished building gg biatch you might as well leave now". Thor is JUST ANOTHER UNIT. I wouldnt even send a toss MS into an enemy base alone. right now most people are thinking the viking/thor combo would be good. Personaly i think it would be also but hella expensive...

Steve22x

08-05-2007, 01:12 PM

I haven't seen anything on the predator but those along with 3 or 4 thors could mean the end to even a formidable defense.

burkid

08-05-2007, 03:12 PM

predator is an air only attack, and therefore wont be able to defend the thor from ground units.

Eye_Carumba

08-05-2007, 06:17 PM

I'm thinking, according to my theory, Thor will be a great anti-zerg weapon. As in destroyer of Zerg masses, Zerg base, and such. It doesn't hit air, but Zergs never had a much strong air-ground attack anyway. Guardian is in no way a possible counter to Thor, if it's even back in the game. If you think about i, Thor will prove its use against the zerg.

Ghost

08-05-2007, 06:28 PM

unless t gets a tremendously powerful long range aa/anti-capitalships unit;
warp rays?

any ideas for a fast warp ray counter?

Well marines should always move along with your thor.

Eye_Carumba

08-05-2007, 06:37 PM

burkid

08-05-2007, 06:41 PM

...It doesn't hit air...

actually, thors can hit air.

Eye_Carumba

08-05-2007, 07:36 PM

...It doesn't hit air...

actually, thors can hit air.

Can they?? O_O Well, then, perhaps Warp Rays cannot simply own them like that then. But then again, we should wait for the actuall game to see how it all works, right? ;-)

PowerkickasS

08-05-2007, 11:06 PM

i wonder how effective the air-specialty-upgraded battlecruisers will be. seems like the new battlecruisers are gonna absolutely smack stuff, you might not even need thor =P

JBL

08-05-2007, 11:14 PM

Thor vs zergling = lol

that means Thor was defenetely meant to be a support unit.. when you have a super large army, so large that if the enemies focus on Thor, the rest of the army pwns all...

burkid

08-05-2007, 11:16 PM

i wonder how effective the air-specialty-upgraded battlecruisers will be.

there isnt an air spec for BCs, its AoE (plasma torpedoes/turrets) to ground or insane 1 hit (yamato) to any unit

PowerkickasS

08-06-2007, 12:22 AM

i thought i saw somewhere (interview vid/blizzcon blogging not sure) said battlecruisers get an option to be upgraded to AA or AG o_O damn

Dxun

08-06-2007, 01:20 AM

Yeah that was in the multiplayer demo at blizzcon, each BC can be upgraded individually he said, which kicks ass!

BoydofZINJ

08-07-2007, 03:13 AM

I would not be surprised if a few zealots could defeat the Thor. If you studied it can only fire forward it seemed and it took a while to turn. So a few zealots in every direction - or in a pincer attack - would be GG Thor.

10-Neon

08-07-2007, 07:31 PM

I'd use Zealots against Thors. The Thors can't do anything about units crawling up their pants. Also, Zealots are good for killing the types of units that would be defending said pants. Alternatively or additionally, Stalkers with Blink would be a good choice. Come to think of it Immortals with their hardened shields can do the trick as well... Yeah, the Protoss have all sorts of things to kill Thors.

Ghost

08-07-2007, 07:41 PM

unless t gets a tremendously powerful long range aa/anti-capitalships unit;
warp rays?

any ideas for a fast warp ray counter?

Well marines should always move along with your thor.

And your Colossi along with your Warp Rays. ;-)

Yeah, in that case you just switch targets, you make your marines attack the warps and your thors bombard the colosi. If the enemy isnt fast enough for your mirco he loses. ;-)

burkid

08-08-2007, 12:41 AM

if he brings colossi along with warp rays, just add air form vikings. colossi are weak to AA.

BoydofZINJ

08-09-2007, 08:29 AM

An expert player could always micro two drones for the win in any game against the Thor! I wonder.... heh

stizur

08-09-2007, 07:02 PM

Ok I think we can all agree that this is a silly thread, and there are plenty of counters. And there will be a lot more once people start playing, the human mind is an amazing thing.

Smokiehunter

08-11-2007, 01:56 AM

I think the Thor is a good heavey unit that is meant to be at the head of the pack while units like mariens and other litter units stay in the back to protect its sides. not many things can take a thor head on.

Protosscommander

08-12-2007, 04:58 AM

Thor vs. Protoss, well i think for me in my own observation the best to do to defeat the thor using protoss... uhmmm zealots because thor is very slow when it comes to a small units and zealots are fast when it comes to battle right?!

Ych9

08-12-2007, 01:50 PM

I believe that the Thors won't be very effective against small units. It is probably more specialized at taking out buildings instead of units. It's special ability can be easily dodged by units since it takes soo long for it to load up.

GrahamTastic

08-14-2007, 05:42 AM

Maybe Thors can crush ground units....wait nvm that is too C&C. I think they will mostly be anti building (with those huge uber-cannons) and anti vehicle (with the normal weapon).

LordofAngels

08-15-2007, 04:06 AM

this thread is going OT fast

back on track:
anyone have any possibly suggestions based on existing announcements/presumptions so far on how to 'fast' counter warp rays with terran?

EDIT: p.s. why did marshal109 remove his earlier replies that burkid's replies were reacting to?

Although I'm not a Terran user, I think Vikings or Marines will take care of the WarpRays Easy.
If you are looking for Defensive turrents of such, no luck there. Plus if you use building or BC, I think it will be down too easily.

Maybe building Raidar tower around where Warp Ray will appear easily will be another nice idea. There isn't much chance that Pheonix will come into play in the same place that WarpRay is effective. Also I think Carriers will be more noticable and much easier to counter...... I think WarpRay isn't much of a deal for Terran if they are prepared. I still think Marines or Vikings are best solution.

Yrcrazypa

08-15-2007, 05:33 AM

LordofAngels

08-16-2007, 03:56 AM

Zealots could kill them in combination with immortals. Zealots rip the infantry to shreds, and the upgraded immortals can only take a maximum of 10 damage from any attack. So the mighty Thor would fall to the zealot and immortal combo, like nearly anything would.

Actually..... Zelot/Immortal isn't the invincible combo. If the opponent has air units such as Banshee, then unsuspected Zelots will die in masses while Immortals cannot sniff them out completely..... moreso if the Banshee is cloaked. Thor will also be likely be supported, so Thor will take more than Zelot/Immortal Combo to take it down.

Unentschieden

08-19-2007, 10:07 PM

I think the Thors role will be the Terrans "Tank" in MMO terms. It might very well be the most durable unit in the game, remember the Nomads Nanorepair and Matrix. Even the Cobras as dedicated counters for it took quite long to kill it.
I don´t think it will get Siegetank range, not even for the 250mm. First we never saw it attacking over a really big range and second it would interfer with it´s role I just thought up for it.

Also I´m looking forward to see it completely animated, it has yet to use any weapon besides the 2 huge "Handcannons" and the 250mm.

Duke Nukem

08-20-2007, 02:49 AM

One other thing... They say the thor couldn't turn fast, yet it is fast enough to hit a cobra every time it fired, even when it killed the last one in the pack and had to actually gain on the cobra's to hit the next one. I don't think Thor will be easy to take down. Two thors could look at each other and cover the other one's back. Immortals are probably the only unit that could take more than a couple hits from a thor, and even they would lose if they didnt outnumber thor by a decent amount.

I can see thor paired with banshees, as they can take out the pesky little highly mobile units that seem like they will be the worst threat for thor.

Unentschieden

08-20-2007, 02:13 PM

Yeah that fits with my theory, the Thor is hard to kill even WITH the right counterunits.

Ych9

08-21-2007, 08:25 AM

I seriously don't think that Thors weakness is its speed as shown from the Terran demo. Although it turns pretty slow, it is still decent enough for it to hit units. I doesn't move very slow either. So Thors are basically a very hard unit to counter. I think against Thors, you need spellcasters to weaken it while your units finish it off. Protoss can use Psi Storm to weaken the Thors while other units finish it off. Statis Trap would also be useful against the Thors. Zerg is unknown at the moment but if plague is making a return, it would really make a huge dent on the Thors. As for Terrans, lots of Siege Tanks will take out Thors from afar. Otherwise, BattleCruisers with Yamato cannon can make a dent on the Thors while other units finish it off.

10-Neon

08-23-2007, 06:18 PM

The units circling the Thor were circling it at long range. The speed at which they moved around the Thor was slower than the Thor's turn rate because the circumference of their circle was so large. If they had been attacking from a few feet in, the Thor would not have been able to hit a single one. Indeed, it is very possible to bunch several small units around a Thor's feet, and keep moving them behind it, almost instantly out of range again, and resume attacking before it can do anything. The only thing that will keep the Thor alive at close range is support units.

Wlck742

08-23-2007, 07:27 PM

Thors unsupported would be rather easy to take out, only when it has backup does become a problem.

Thors+Banshees:

Protoss:
Hard to counter, if you ask me. If you had some really crazy micro, you could probably dance around with the stalkers to kill the banshees, and once they're down continue with the stalkers or rush in with lots of speed upgraded zealots to finish off the Thor. You could also psi storm the banshees after holding them in place with the HT's barrier ability. And kill the Thor with either lots, or immortals, or both. You should, as always have an observer with you at all times.

Terran:
By the time they get out Thors, you should also have Thors of your own and/or a fleet of BCs. The Thor would go down in about 3 yamatoes, so not much problem there, and finish off the banshees with the BCs. I guess you could nuke them as well, as long as they have no detectors and don't move too much.

Zerg:
Well, can't say, as we don't know about the Zerg yet so I'll use SC1's units. As Zerg late game strength is rather weak compared to the others', the best thing to do would be to end the game before the thors come out. But if you had to fight them, guardian + devourer should do the trick. You might be able to just plant a few lurkers by them and kill the Thors that way, or hit them with mass cracklings or ultras. Ultras would work better. Mass hydras should take down banshees relatively well.

Unentschieden

08-23-2007, 10:59 PM

The chances of getting a lone Thor are quite low, remember that you will most likely have to deal with Defense Matrix and Nanorepair wich prolong the Thors life drastically.

Duke Nukem

08-25-2007, 09:14 PM

The units circling the Thor were circling it at long range...

However, the closer they are to thor, the more times they will go around him, and be able to be shot at as they double lap it. Otherwise a thor could just stand still and be able to hit them each time they came around.

Unentschieden

08-25-2007, 11:17 PM

Well then it´s a question how carefully the Players each macro it. Turning the Thor in the opposit direction might surprise the attacker and score some hits if he can´t react fast enough.

ijffdrie

08-26-2007, 07:08 PM

i guess banelings and succubusses would be a good counter for the thor

war
:thumbup: :thumbup:

Wlck742

08-26-2007, 07:13 PM

We don't even know if succubi will be actual units.

Unentschieden

08-27-2007, 01:02 AM

Succubi are confirmed as fake from Karune himself.

Protosscommander

08-27-2007, 02:22 AM

Thor, has too many weakend parts first of all is the Agility of the Thor, it is useless against the fast and small units like, the Zealots. :)

Hadean

08-27-2007, 05:24 PM

Okay, I skipped most of the thread so forgive me if I've posted something similar to someone else. Buuut:

Warprays arent the capital ship anymore right? They prolly got nerfed into lower hp and stats, and really, since Thor has AA, the warpway isn't a feasible option. They'd have to fly around him to attack him but that totally defeats the purpose of a steady stream of attack. If any toss air unit will counter thor it'll be the carrier.

burkid

08-28-2007, 03:07 AM

warprays stats didnt change, i dont think. and they were never high, so a bunch of warp rays focusing on a thor is still an option, as they would do severe damage to it, and they have superior range.

Unentschieden

08-28-2007, 03:27 PM

I just hope that the Carrier won´t overshadow any other Aircraft again. But rather than nerfing it directly they could increase the effectivyness off the counters. For example make the Predator really good at shooting down interceptors or something.

moobox

09-12-2007, 06:15 AM

The Thor is not a superunit and has many counters if sent in alone, which is what the original post seemed to be pointing towards. If anybody sent a Thor in alone or with very little ground support that player deserves to watch horrified as those units get pulverized. Thor is meant to be used in other ways than a super unit such as artillery support for armies and to tank for other units (in my opinion).

Protosscommander

09-12-2007, 12:15 PM

Isn't in the Protoss Demo SC2, they mensioned that the Protoss Warp Rays are very effective against heavy Armored Enemy Units so i think Protoss Warp Rays are very effective against the Terran Thor heavy Armored :)

Hadean

09-12-2007, 09:45 PM

neg commander. They said high hp units because the warprays damage increases over time.

Joneagle_X

09-12-2007, 11:12 PM

The counters for the Thor are pretty glaring and obvious.

Protoss can use the Immortal. Shock absorber? 10 damage no matter what it does? R0x0r s0x0r.

The Zerg will undoubtedly have something to counter it as well.

As for the Terran, just use another Thor! ;)

BnechbReaker

09-13-2007, 01:51 AM

zerglings will mush thors, so many of them can attack a single thor at the same time, and zergling's damage per second is right up there with the best

Wlck742

09-13-2007, 04:06 AM

There's also the banelings. Just rush them in and blow it to pieces.

moobox

09-13-2007, 04:43 AM

Stalkers, if microd, can blink around the Thor. Would be time consuming if the Stalker has a slow/weak rate of fire, but would certainly work. Warp Rays will own the Thor if you have a single Thor against a few (4-6) Warp Rays. Lockdown would completely own Thor if the ability is ever brought back for Ghosts or any other unit. Mothership will rip Thor a new one.

Wlck742

09-13-2007, 04:50 AM

It would take quite a large number of Stalkers to bring down a Thor, even with good micro and blink. Blink has a cool down of about 4-5 seconds, during which the Thor could take down or at least damage a Stalker. Neither can Stalkers do the same thing as the Cobra, as they can't attack while moving, and are not fast enough to stop to shoot. While Stalkers have a relatively high attack, you would need at least twelve Stalkers, possibly more, to bring those 700 hp to 0.

coreyb

09-13-2007, 05:07 AM

Yeah there's a few good way's but the best is with my friend's...the...immortal's!!! ;D but yeah honestly 7 immortal's will own 2 thor's in a very little matter of time becuase I trust my immortal's and zealot's to own the enemy and also some colouses and some phenoxes...Going to play C&C 3 , NOD rules :P

moobox

09-13-2007, 05:52 AM

Very good points Wlck742!

I figured that it would take many Stalkers to take down a Thor, and the micro management would be near impossible, but thought I would post the possibility anyways. I somehow totally forgot about the cool down period for the blink ability.

Cross off Stalkers :).

About four or five Warp Rays with a few Immortals theoretically seems to be a pretty good combination.

coreyb

09-13-2007, 06:16 AM

A good combo is around 12-20 zealots and 2-3 colouses and some immortals! :P and iff You want possibly some phenixes.

moobox

09-13-2007, 03:12 PM

Haven't you never played the game Starcraft before?

coreyb

09-13-2007, 03:14 PM

Me? , No I haven't but I've played the demo and it's kinda...badish but they have no excuse (blizzard) because a year later someone (i forgot sorry) made battlezone2 which is great I prefere it over halo!!!

BnechbReaker

09-13-2007, 06:17 PM

personally i think charging zealots would do the job

Major Willy

09-16-2007, 09:15 AM

Mothership is an effective counter. I think it's slightly faster than the Thor and if you can get one stuck under a Planet Cracker...

coreyb

09-16-2007, 09:47 AM

...Then it will own the thor :)

longlivefenix

09-16-2007, 04:33 PM

the carriers, if they have that shield like the tempests, could own it hands down

also you could hit it from the front with immortals, to take the fire and hit it from behind with your weak warprays

Patlidzan

09-16-2007, 05:17 PM

I think mas marines thor would do just fine i mean lets say they atack you with colosus and immortals... u use the thors to atack the colosus and use the marines to atack the imortals its all about micro... the thors doesnt have to waste their firepower on imortals shields....its not like u cant order them to atack what u want ....and btw we dont know how much each units cost so like u atack with 4 warp rays and lose 2 in the proces for one thor and if lets say (just guesing) the ray costs 250 minerals and 200 gas and a single thor costs 400 mins 400 gas the protos is at a lose....

Wlck742

09-16-2007, 11:30 PM

The stasis orb might also be a good counter for the Thor. The Thor's pretty slow already, so slow it down even further and hit it with immortals or warp rays. You'd stand a lot more chance against a slowed Thor than a normal one.

BirdofPrey

09-17-2007, 03:47 AM

Counters to the Thor will probably be different depending on if the Thor has a minimum range. If it has a minimum range Zealots and Zerglings will be a good counter.

I am thinking it might have a minimum range because I cant possibly see that thing being able to shoot at its feet due to the cannon length

Patlidzan

09-17-2007, 02:37 PM

But u newer send it alone just make a shield of marines around it and the mele ppl cant get too it

Seradin

09-17-2007, 04:16 PM

heres something fun, use the stalkers to poof behind it then when it turns poof around behind it again and continue this till the thor is dead and very confused.

BirdofPrey

09-17-2007, 04:17 PM

I know but they do that with tanks too so what they showed in the gameplay video with the cobra circle of death wouldn't happen as shown either. I was just hypothesizing as to possible options. Assuming there is a minimum range for the Thor rushing it would leave you less vulnerable and you only have to deal with marines.

Patlidzan

09-17-2007, 10:55 PM

I thinks the counter would be to engage the rines with zealots and colosus and engage the thor with warp rays because they look like their sole purpose is to destroy slow large hp units, it ads damage for every sec it atacks if i am not mistaken

Joneagle_X

09-18-2007, 04:26 PM

I don't think the current planet cracker would do all that much damage to the Thor. Maybe 200-300 if kept over it for the entire ability.

That's based on it's current suck-weak status.

10-Neon

09-19-2007, 04:39 PM

Patlidzan: The Warp Ray would only be so-so against the Thor. The damage increases only twice, it essentially adds a beam to the attack, doubling it, then another beam, bringing it to 3x the original attack, but it's still not massive. You'd need 3-4 Warp Rays to take down a Thor at any respectable rate.

And, as I am always stating: the solution to the Thor problem is not high-tech units! Just get your small cheap stuff, Zealots are perfect, behind the thing, and it's as good as dead.