New protoss strategies

[Patuljak]

H'okay, so we've seen quite a lot of protoss units already, so maybe we could start speculating about the possible strategies with them?

Phase cannon rush in mirror matchups could be good, since they can move anywhere in pylon power. Bring in some zealots and probes, zealots distract while the cannons are being built or kill the enemy's units if they go for the cannons. And when some are built, let's say 6, leave 3 alone and move 3 forward, then switch, and so on. Similar to the AP rush in Wc3. Even if the enemy manages to build some towers or something so you can't advance any further you would still hold them in the base and could expand, build more units, in short, force him to turtle while you gain an economical advantage. In other matchups it couldn't be so good because you would have to have phase prisms which probably won't be early in the game, and I think this strategy would work best when the enemy doesn't have much defenses on.

Then we have the good old Dark Templar rush, which isn't really something new. There's just some different aspects because of the terran domes, or warp-in in and so on.

I've read about stalker rush somewhere already, and while I don't really think it's a strategy that's going to be seen often, especially when good players clash, it could be worth mentioning. Some zealots distract the enemy in the front while the stalkers inflitrate the worker line and kill off as many as they can, creating an economical advantage so you can make a much bigger army than your enemy has and destroy him. Come to think of it, it could be very effective against noobs.

We could also discuss the best types of units against a certain enemy/strategy, like vs terran's tanks and vikings and so on, for instance zealots for the frontal pressure, immortals for the backup support, stalkers for blinking behind the enemy lines and harrasing, HTs for psi storm, maybe an archon or two for pure power...

Discuss!

[Itsmyship]

Against Vikings, your best bet is probably the stalker since it can attack air and ground and can blink to avoid Vikings and give people who have trouble micro-managing a tough deal.

One thing I'm interested in is the HT psi shield ability. If played right, It could really slow your enemy down which leave room for the good old economy rush and you might even be able to force the opponent into your own version of a choke point.

[JimRaynor45]

Yes, I'd like to note the apparent opposing powers of the terran and the protoss, Look at the Immortal and how it owns tanks. Tanks will probably own stalkers cuz of their low hp. and If u look at the viking, there probably stronger than the immortals. There will be a interesting balance of power.....

[kehmdaddy]

I actually think the Stalker rush you mentioned sounds very effective and difficult to stop. They've got a powerful attack and will be able to make short work of an enemy's entire resource gathering. The Phase Prism will be available at the same time the Shuttle previously was. I wonder if you have to warp in in your own pylon energy field. Imagine if you were just to keep an undetected Dark Templar sitting in the corner of their base and then warp in a whole army right in the middle of their base away from all of their defense. They would be forced to destroy their own pylons to stop the warping in, so I figure it must just be your own pylon psi field. This makes Protoss proxy builds easier since you can basically hide two pylons near your enemy's base and just keep sending your armies through to him.

[wuffle]

I'm going to agree with kehm and say Stalker rush is a great rush. I wouldn't even go for workers, I would just fight then when one gets eak blink it to the back of the group (where it can still attack). Blink on a normal unit will make for some awesome micro wars. I'm looking forward to it.

[Wlck742]

Yes, a stalker rush would be very useful, although I doubt it will do much good if you aren't good at micro. Seeing as stalkers have relatively low health and shields, a few zealots/ other stalkers, marines or reapers, or a few lings and hydras would be able to destroy them fairly easily if the stalkers didn't blink constantly.

[kehmdaddy]

If I'm not mistaken, the Stalker has just as much health and shields as the old Dragoon used to. I think people are exaggerating how flimsy the Stalker really is, plus they do a good amount of damage, so I think they should be able to handle themselves pretty well, even without blink. Of course, with blink, they're far more efficient killing machines; as each one weakens, simply blink it to the back of the line and continue.

[i2new@aol.com]

I would do a stalker to old Fashen DT rush baby. who the heck is ganna think darn he's stoping the mining and slowing them down with a few stalkers and then u flood the enemys base with 20 DT's If the stalkers are played well in a match u can annoy your opponent into a a hot fuss and beat them out pritty easy.

but i cant say to much about this now because zerg are still looming in the shadows and are still unknown. We cant make strategies untill a later date. Blizzard is still moving units left and right. And dose anyone know what a Twilight Archon dose??

[JudicatorPrime]

Only one page in my Protoss Strategy Book:

Reaver Rush. Self Explanatory.

[i2new@aol.com]

Reaver rush is so out dated now. Dude get with the times this is SC2. do a colossus rush man. that should be funny

[PhantomFF]

I have a feeling I'm going to post a book here, but I've always loved the Protoss and these new units give me many ways with which to think about how to penetrate another's base. I think I'll just cover uses of diffrent units just to have some fun.

Ground assaults- Protoss have the strongest units of the three, but also the most expensive (and consiquently the fewest), calling in some good strategy and some manuverability to make use of the units you do have means that you'll come out on top every time.

Immortals/Zealots/Stalkers- Keeping immortals in front with zealots charging in behind just makes sense, keep the heavy guys in front while the little guys charge in and start taking down infantry will put stress on a defensive formation. (lets assume Terran for now with siege tanks and bunkered marines). In keeping with style, once the battle is engaged you move stalkers and port them directly past the front line of your opponent and pincer them back onto themselves finishing them off in a fairly hands off approach. This would be similar to the SC1 tactic of keeping some dark templar behind an assault without the risk of getting detected.

Stalkers can also fire at both ground and air defenses at pretty much the same time. (thier anti-air is independant from thier anti-ground attack) Making them an extemely good last minute defensive force with very good kiting ability. (they move fast and blink... with enough space I'm sure they could kill almost anything)

The Collosus I beleive will be underestimated at times for thier sheer utility and ability to really put the grind on almost any base defense. Cliffs will no longer keep a base safe, and while you engage an army on one side of a conflict...you use your Cololosus to go directly into an enemy base and immediately stomp out all thier work force. (thier lazers will make quick work of ANY mineral mineing force) Even if you loose your units to anti-air defense systems you will have effictively stopped a major part of thier economy.

Reavers will always be reavers, strategy with them seems no diffrent unless you combine them with the utility of its robot brother. A reaver will be very capable of taking down something like an Ultralisk (or heavy armored/big HP ground units) and help a Collosus dismantle a base in short order. This is of course risking shuttle drops and the like as this unit cant bypass cliffs.

High Templars new stasis ability will make him a key in assault forces with heavy defenses, or keeping your base intact by blocking off other forces long enough to get yours in place. For example, if there is a bunker or siege tank pummeling your troops from where you cant reach them, cast a stasis over the location to save yourself the trouble while your troops get to safety. If you spot an assault incomeing from a ramp base, you can cast a field over the entrence long enough to move your phase cannons to the front. This ability will add alot of flexability in being able to bide time for you to move your units to places they are needed.

Dark Templars/Archons seem no diffrent then before and thus I dont have anything to say about them.

Keeping ground forces mobile- It seems one of the major powers of the protoss is the ability to "warp in" and shift around thier very expensive units. It seems to me that it would always be a good idea to keep a few units ready to be warped in at any time. Using a hallucination spell with a bunch of portable pylons will result in being able to port a unit just about anywhere you want.

Money well spent- Because protoss units/structures are so expensive, the main theme here seems to advocate being stingy. If your going to use phase cannons to defend a base, only cover half the base so that you can move them in the event they attack your other side. Porting your units around to get them to where they are most needed quickly. Some units may be cheeper then they were before (Tempest) but that is no reason to throw them away carelessly.

Air Units- Overall the Protoss air force has simply AMAZING synergy. While just one of its units alone wont stop any real attack for any legnth of time, together even with just 1-2 of each they can cover each other's weaknesses nearly perfectly creating an extremely deadly and well balanced air force.

Phoenix have the best overall ability that I've seen so far in the air force. (mothership not counting of course) A decent anti-air and ground attack with a special ability that can put a dent in just about anything. However it has the shields/hp of a wet blanket in comparison to some of the other protoss units, so you dont want to use this without support.

Warp rays have thier niche in being able to kill anything big...The bigger the unit, the better off this guy is killing it. It synergizes well with the Phoenix and the Tempest for a very killer combo.

Tempests take out any ground units and base defenses with ease, thier anti-ground shield makes them perfect for punching through missile turrets and marines. Phoenix cover them from above, and warp rays kill anything too big for the "shuriken" (I beleive they are called).

Mothership can just be thrown in here as it makes a huge diffrence on any attacking force and doesn't need me to tell anyone its applications.

Star Relic is of course a very unique unit whos purpose is to be snuck into battle to blow things up with its detonation beam. (as well as its spells which are self explanitory) The way I see it there are a few ways to utilize this beam in ways that can be potentially devastating. One such example would be to back up an attack with it using the beam on a pretty fast/easy to kill infantry unit in the middle of a clog of infantry. One of these guys exploding would deal significant damage to the rest... Just dont expect it to kill that tank sitting next to them. Another use would be to put it behind a base and sneakily blow up a building near thier workers or even just blowing up a building in general (and watching the collateral chaos ensue)

I know I rambled a bit and said things that you guys could have figured out on your own. However As this thread is about protoss strats I feel this would be a good start.

500 minerals for a great post

[ArchLimit]

I think most people have already stated the best ideas though. These two are just... filler....

This isn't that fascinating of an idea, but I guess the MS could always black hole all of the enemy miners, heh.

Oh, and warp in Dark Templars for the same purpose more or less.

[Wlck742]

I think Black Hole only hits air.

[T-man]

Black hole only affects air. And they are thinking of reducing it's OMGWTFness.

[Darktemplar_L]

Create some zealots to start of the game, most likely seven or eight, then attack enemy base. Continue on to stalkers while the enemy is behind because of zealot attack. Bring out about one and a half dozen stalkers, bring eight around the front and eight around the back, and blink into the middle of the base. That will cause chaos. Of course by this time i will be at Colossus and I can bring in like three to destroy enemy economy. Then get some Twilight Archons backed up by stalkers for support. Bring in three or four carriers and a HUGE army of zealots for fun.

[PancakeChef]

I think stalkers may also be effective or atleast annoying to thors. Since the Thor takes so long to turn you could easily blink behind him and by the time he turns around to fire on you, blink behind him once again.

Support with the Thor could be a problem for just using stalkers against it. So I'm thinking drop some templar in there with them or psi storm the light support units protecting the Thor.

Does anyone know if Immortals can attack air or are they only ground?

[MarineCorp]

stalkers are like dragoons with blink added as their ability, so masses of them will be very effective since that they have a strong weapon

[nortonanti]

im pretty sure immortals only hit ground

[DontHate]

nope... they hit air. look at meloku's thread.

[Wlck742]

Didn't they hit ground only before?

[LordofAngels]

If Immortals only hit ground, that is sad...... they are formal Dragoons afterall, so I think they should hit air too.....

I always loved Protoss. They have the best units, the best utility, and best at making the game interesting. Protoss in one's team always makes the opponents guessing with sheer power.

However, I think Protoss's abilities are overlooked because of lack of micro available for Protoss. Other than hit & run for Dragoons, autoattacking Carriers, and drop Reavers, I think Protoss is pretty much straight forward, and pro players can micro and own the army easily in SC. I liked the apporach to putting micro avilable units in Protoss. I think it will make Protoss much more deadly and exiting to play in.

I'm not a big fan of early Zelot Rush, but is is rather effective. However, when going well towards the end of the game, Zelots are wasted away like Zerglings. With new rush ability, I think Zelots will be able to kill at least 2 more Marines before dying. But I still think Zelots cannot be microed too much, since Rush ability will need few seconds of cool down ability to use it too frequently. But I think Zelots now make a good begining offensive unit as well as threatning card even towards the end of the game.

Stalkers, I believe, will be very effective when used correctly. However, I don't think it will meet many people's expectaitons when used against Terrans. It is likely in order to protect the buildings and main economy, the Command Center will be turned into Planetary Defense, and its power can crack open Stalkers during Stalker's cool down phase. However, Stalker will be proabably good at anywhere else. It can easily take the cliff and get around ground defense in the enterance. Or it can simply blink right infront of SeigeTank for good counter. Plus it can have infinite possiblities with Immortal or Zelots. If Zelots and Immortals take the first damage, Stalkter can charge right on the front line, and it will take time for any opponent to change its target, even with micro. That will give enough time for Immortal and Zelots to do more than just exchange fires.
I think Stalkers will be most effective in PvP rounds, when mostly the defense is made of Zelots. SInce minerals tend to be besides the cliff, if the Stalkers get into the base and Zelots rush in, Stalker can blink up into the cliff and destroy Protoss's major weakness: economy.

I had no idea about High Templar having Statis ability, and I think its a fresh apporach. The very fact that it can render any turrets useless will make Templars even more formittable. Psi Storm with Statis will make a great combo with ranged units, and maybe it can be used as anti-defiler, by making the units inside the dark swarm imobile. This will make High Templar even more needed unit, and it is more likely that more micros can be done with these guys roaming in the battlefield.
HighTemplars, in my opinion, will be best with any race combination, but especially with other race matchup, like Zerg or Terran. Terrans like to make a stationary outpost with Tanks and Turrets, maybe Goliot[probably changing more into Vikings, since Goliot is now obsolite]. With this, Protoss users can't really use Statis because of money it will be wasted building Fleet Becon and StarGate. Statis will be able to be utilized earlier on in the game, and Terrans cannot perform their famous defensive lines to cornor the Protoss.
Zerg's Defiler is very much an issue for Protoss's arsinal. Apart from Zelots, nearly every unit in Protoss Weapons of War is ranged to some extent, while Zerg can always rely on Zergling/Ultrarisk combo. Defilers can simply Dark Swarm wherever to protect from the weapon fire, and Protoss has no option than retreat to cease further damage. However, with HighTemplar's Statis, Protoss can easily disable the Zerglings inside the swarm, and wait for Dark Swarm to clear out. Plus this also gives the Protoss users to search for the Defiler to eleminate. This combined with few Stroms will make Zerg Users think twice before rushing in as soon as Defiler is created.

Collosus is a really cool unit. With few of those you can obililate any defense it may have. I think it will be effective economic rushers as well, since their rays can switch targets accordingly. It can be replacement for Rever and Dragoon when it comes into Ground Zelot Support. Since Collosus is big, they can easily take many fires as a bait while Zelots rush in. The Marines and Tanks will also take much damage for Zelots to finish the job quickly.
My opinion is that Collosus is great for TvP matches. Terrans really now have little need for Turrets since they no longer have Detectors. So mass producing Turrets like before will be more obsolite for the Terran users..... the stationary outpost strategy will now include more of scanner or Raidar Towers instead of Turrets since Vikings are out. Using that advantage, Collosus can get around and attack enemies' economy with ease. It is very unlikely for Vikings to be stationed in every multi, plus it will have more of a scanner or Raidar towers in the base..... and Bunkers will be usually out of range when Collosus blows down on SCV's. This will force Terran unsers to build Turrets combining with Scanner or Raidar Towers, which can waste money that could be used to build Thor, Tanks, or BC's. It could seriouly affect Terran users, while Protoss can easily just spawn few Collosus as a threat, and change tactics to other buildings. It is essential for most users to build Robotic Support Bay because of Shuttle[not Phase Prism]'s Speed upgrade anyways. It wouldn't hurt for few Collosus for base deffense as well.

I think Twilight Arcon will be supreme assult unit along with DT or Arcons, even if Twilight's attack is little less. Its FeedBack ability can easily hurt any magic units that pose a threat to the heavy attackers, and combining with other units can be unsuspecting magic unit in premisis....... since Many users are used to seeing Templars or red Dark Arcons when they want to spot magical unit. Twillight Arcon, in my opinion, is still being developed at more abilities.... and although its attack might be lower, it can be effective unit to bring around.
For any races, Twillight Arcon is good combination to go around, especially when your army is massive. Twillight can walk in front lines, taking the damage with enormous shield plus damaging magic units such as Defiler, Ghost, HT, and Nomads. Twillight Arcon can also become a great support unit to bring around when air assulting. Probles with Yamato Cannos is now solved with Twillight Arcon's feedback plus its high attack power. And Queen isn't much of a insnare threat if they don't have mana to do so. I'm expecting more micro from this unit for Protoss. Twillight Arcon can devestate any of the opponent's strategy by making the magic units useless, and its attack and shield will become much of a use as well. It will make a great addition to the field of battle, both in air support and ground support.

Immortals...... well, the name said it all. Immortals have great shield rating, especially if reasearched hardened shield [I do believe Immortals have to research for Hardened Shield.... correct me if I'm wrong.] So it will make great additional support unit for Zelots. But instead of classic "Dragoon on back, Zelots on Front", it will be more of "Immortals on Front, Zelots on Back". Immortals can take damage from heavy attackers while Zelots quickly dash into the battle from behind. It will make a sweet attack that will leave more devestaion than normal Dragoon/Zelot Rush. Immortals, I believe will become a damage taker for the team, with hardened shield and great hp/shield rate. However, I cannot immagine Immortals acting alone like what Dragoons did. They are just too darn expensive and slow to be doing that.

I really think MotherShip even with the major degrading, will make good strategy usage for Protoss. If it can cloak other units as Blizzard said, its gonna be around the same as hell of a strong Arbiter with the TimeBomb and super weapon. I think using MotherShip well can reduce the loss of tropps, and overall improve the air support. MotherShip can fire multiple fires in a given time, and I think that will really get MotherShip into a heavy support unit for Carriers at the very least.
MotherShip will be really usefull for any defense cracking as well as defense in the base. Time Bomb itself is a lifesaver, since even though it might not slow down every damage, even the smallest of attacks counts in a long run, and every second that troops surviving counts. Also Planet Cracker, although little weakened, it can still give advantages as of destroying terran deffenses, and will make more reason for Turrets, which means Terran users will waste more money to build turrets and scanner towers.
I like to consider MotherShip as a new Queen in Protoss. It can be powerful unit for assult, but I think it can always become a decoy. Even with degraded attack strength, MotherShip is still strong unit, and I believe it will throw opponent in uproar if it shows up in any multi or main base. Also, MotherShip is extremely hard to crack down with just a group of Marines. Enemy will divide the army from the outskirt of the base into the base being attacked, and your main army can rush in and destory the weakened outskirt base. MotherShip then can just slip out using a TimeBomb. Even if MotherShip does not survive, it will still leave the impact for an enemy, and I think what you will give to the enemy is about equal as what you will suffer at the MAXIMUM.
I think MotherShip will also serve as a psycological attack at enemy. Just by having some MotherShip in the fireld of battle is enough to render Enemy into state of Chaos, and maybe even to the extent of making mass amount of turrets to just counter it. However, until reasonable MotherShip is made, I think it will be up to Macro to make sure the tech for MotherShip is not shown. I really think the MotherShip needs to be hidden until it states a threat, and that will be around 1 to start a riot. Also, I think MotherShip, even one, is about ok to have even with degraded abilities because of the power it posses. And its fun to see others panic about it.

Arcon and Dark Templars are no new stuff, but I think with combinations it will become even more great. The fact that new units will be there, there will be alot of replacing this and that in strategies. For example, I think the all famous DT detection with spider mine is pretty much obsolete for now. So early DT rush will be even more effective. I mean, Reapers cannot demo charge everywhere.... well, they can but who in their right mind will blow their own base up for couple of annoying DT?
Arcon will also bring out a fresh approach as it did before. I think now Zelots will be in the back of Arcons. It was always annoying to see the Hydras or Marines Microing their way out of range with Arcons, and I think New dash ability will fix that micro from happening to Arcons. Zelots will buy time for Arcons to come into range, and I think that is a very good plan for already existing and proven to be excellent Zelot/Arcon Rush.

Although I hate the idea of making Corsairs Obsolete, I thnk Pheonix can fit the shoes for already Obsolete and unusable Scout reasonably well. Its about as fast as Scout and with the overload ability, it will be a great unit to have in battle. Also it will be great for Pheonix to be hanging around with ground units incase of Banshee appearing out of nowhere. I think with few Pheonixs hanging around as scout/air support unit, most users will think twice before sending in heavy damage dealers to attack.
However, I really think that overload ability shouldn't be used as attack. I think it should be used as deffense. Pheonix can overCharge to destroy air rush, or buy time. The chances are that air units will tred the circle around Pheonix's range or retreat and come back when they are about finished. In the mean Time the ranged units or other air fleet can return to the base for counter. Since Overload ability is just too heavy for any fast assult unit such as Banshee or Mutals to handle. I also think that since Phase Cannon's ability will work hand in hand with Pheonix. They can buy time while Phase Cannons can move into more reasonable spot of fire.
The guarding will also be reasonable job for Pheonix. Pheonix can be a threat with overload ability for air units. So many units that cannot stand the heat will get out of the way. Also, this becomes a huge threat when Pheonix is great in numbers. It can go around with Carriers and MotherShips, or even WarpRays. For guarding. BC cannot target it with Yamato since its so uneffective, so while BC is fighting, Pheonix can overload, and basically wear down BC for Carrier and MotherShip to finish the job. AfterWards MotherShip or Carrier can defend Pheonix from any kind of attack that will happen during short time of cooldown. Its a good threat when couple of Pheonix is going around with huge fleets.

I think that's all I have in my head at the present moment. However, if any of this is wrong, please tell me. I would love to know what I have to fix..... I feel kinda dumb stating the obious in the post though... forgive me for that.

[brc9210]

I think many people are overestimating the colossus a little bit. Its a great unit but i could see 2 tanks easily taking it down especially since they are stronger than before. Plus a few vikings in air would just destroy it without any damage. Zealots charge ability while defintley effective wont cause them to take down an extra 2 rines especially if the marines have the shield upgrade.