Weather Patterns and their possible effects on SC2 Strategy and Balancing

[ShdwyTemplar]

If this was to be implemented there are many things to begin discussing.To start off the many environments of Sc2 do deserve their unique and quite frankly weird weather patterns. Considering the fact we have been in Frozen, Jungle, Volcanic, and Mystical (Shakuras) worlds and not one of them having any weather condition makes no logical sense at all. (Withstanding the fact SC1/SC2 is not logical by any point) At the same time I see the reasoning for no Weather Patterns in SC1 as the required processing speeds/technology had not developed enough to run efficiently on computers of that time. In SC2, though, the capabilities of having Weather Patterns in SC2 would allow for a lot of different and visually stunning strategic maneuvers in SC2.
For instance as it seems we will be going to a frozen planet yet again, why not have it snow there? It's a frozen planet it can generate those types of Weather condition quite easily imo. Noting that the Weather condition could allow for Tactical deployment in the sense of say for example this: A snow drift has built up on either sides of a canyon small enough for a number of units to pass through at once. Say you start a reaction with those drifts and they slide down the canyon walls. Now your Canyon has two makeshift blockades and one choke hold. This would result in random, yet, unique defenses every game as it just so happens to be random enough on the map to provide blockades in needed spots.
Another example of a Weather Pattern affecting a game would be say you’re moving your army on a map. It’s raining and thundering and lightning is coming down. Say for instance you’re Terran. Your Thor is moving into position on a ledge to bombard the enemies below with Artillery Fire (Yes I believe the Thor is a Base Siege Unit as it is said to be.) now the storm does what all storms do and Targets a Metal target(Not necessarily required, but rather a mech than a Marine). Now your Thor is struck and is shorted out for an X amount of time. In that time the enemy reacts. Kills the Thor and proceed to decimate your army now lacking its support. This would be an instance where having a powerful unit supporting small ones alone and trying to live would not work. Though, the lightning as another example could for all intent hit say a Zergling or Marine or Zealot.
These units would be either A. Killed Instantly 2. Severely wounded 3. Stunned for an X amount of time. With that affect in mind it could allow for you to be cautions about A. Is High Ground really worth it ,during a storm, that could affect the overall outcome of my next battle. B. When should I attack my enemy? C. Will my troops be enough to effectively get to the enemy base and wreak havoc or will they fail because their too small a force if one or two is hit by Lightning. This elemental effect would change the whole course of battles in SC2 as it would require more tactical ingenuity on the field of If I do X , will X effectively eliminate Z or will Z come back to give me a Fiery Pizza of Death when the effect of Y is in place. These variables of X Y and Z all play a role, but Y would be a Random Variable to both Sides. Also note this would not happen often and when it did it would only hit 1 Unit. So in early Game this would be very deadly to anyone, in End Game not so much.
Though the whole basis of this is that people would be smart with it(watch what their doing opposed to as just watching and countering their opponent), as, I can assume many things about this would be unbalanced and would need to be balanced as I’m not saying this idea is wholly balanced. Just that the idea has possibilities if it was engineered the correct and balanced way. Not withstanding the fact that it would just be cool in general to have a regiment/legion/swarm of basic ground troops assaulting you and see them get covered in an avalanche of snow effectively neutralizing there effective nature against you for a moment or see a Thor making its way up a hill and lightning striking it followed by smoke flowing from the artillery barrels. Just another crazy idea.
:o >:D

Sorry it took me awhile to get back to the forums to correct this post and decrease the intimidation factor.

[SirBaron]

Paragraphs are your friends.

[ninerman13]

I think weather would be a cool visual effect, but shouldn't be anything more. If a random unit could be struck by lightning or covered in a snow drift, the game could theoretically shift in balance unfairly. On the flip side, if the weather was not random, i.e. X part of the map was always storming, I could see units taking damage because the players know that the storm is there.

Visual effect-wise - sand storms on Korhal, snow storms on Braxis, wind funnels, rain, etc. would look really cool in the game and I would be all for them.

[Wlck742]

yeah, weather effects will be good, but like ninerman13 said, they should only be for visual effects. If constant snowstorms started to form hills or ledges, and lightning struck random units, it could piss some people off. Think how you'll feel if the Mothership you spent 1000 minerals and gas on got destroyed from a lightning strike. It would be much more realistic, but probably not so fun.

[for-glory]

That might be a cool thing to have on the map editior....the ability to have weather patterns effect gameplay.

I think weather should be implemented somewhat in the game (random rain....fog that kinda thing).

[kehmdaddy]

Paragraphs are your friends.
Well said, SirBaron, :powerup: hahaha. That huge block of text is really intimidating... I don't think I can muster the focus to go through all of that, but I will try.
-edit- Alright, I went through it and, while weather would be great for aesthetics, it would not be good for competitive gameplay. Although I'm sure people would eventually accept it, and it could even boost strategic elements of the game a great deal, the general consensus would be a resounding No.
I'm not sure if I understood what you were trying to say about the snow drift/canyon, but how cool would it be if after snow fell for awhile, it packed and covered up a giant crevasse. The players wouldn't be able to tell what was under the snow, and as a Protoss player moved his army across it, the Zealots and Stalkers crossed with ease, but as he brought a Reaver or two and a Colossus, the snow fell out from under them, and the Reavers, Colossus, and a few Zealots in the rear of the army all fell in, with one Zealot clinging to the edge with his psi blades, but not having the strength to pull himself up and falling to his death. That'd suck beyond belief to have happen to you, but it would be realistic and might be good for Campaign. It would make a hell of a cinematic, if nothing else.

[burkid]

the thing i wouldnt like about the snow or the lightning is a) i dont wanna get barricaded in my base by snow and b) i dont want to lose a game because my X unit was stunned or killed at a critical time by random chance lightning

[JimRaynor45]

I think this is a good idea. You have my support sir. A thing you could add is that each race could have a upgrade that makes their units resistant to lightning, that way it will make a player choose if they should get the upgrade before they attack and risk loosing units or get the upgrade...

[zeratul11]

Paragraphs are your friends.


lmao. wow.

i love the idea, here :powerup:. and fast and strong snow drop will greatly slow down your troops.
i hope they do this well at least just the weather effects. which is a must. thuunderstorm, snow flakes, rain, lightning, sand storm etc. 8)

[Major Willy]

Meh. They had weather in WC3 and that was just for aesthetics. They did their job well. A huge Orcs VS Human fight in the rain broke the badass-o-meter.

If they added it again but with gameplay changes I think Blizzard would just be trying to overcomplicate things like they're doing with golden minerals and neutral observatories.

[zeratul11]

ok. only weather effects but not actually affecting the gameplay. only to fit the realism of the environment and setting. i hope to see this effects specially on the campaign.

[kehmdaddy]

I would prefer aesthetic weather over no weather, but I just thought of an interesting thing they could throw in if it actively affected gameplay. Give each race a weather related unit or upgrade. Perhaps the psi-storm would do more damage or have a slightly larger radius if you cast it during a storm. Maybe create a Terran building or Command Center add-on that can actually control the weather to an extent, like create a bad storm over a select part of the map. The Zerg's advantage could be that they can evolve and adapt so quickly that their units aren't affected by the weather whatsoever, while as a Terran Cobra or Siege Tank may be slower in the snow, or the Protoss shield is greatly weakened in the rain. Just thoughts...

[ShdwyTemplar]

Now that I'm back on I can clear up a few questions about my post
@ SirBaron, paragraph's and me have a long history, but yes I'll watch that this next time. :P
@ burkid, I think I should have explained the mechanics of the snow drifts a bit more. The Snow fall would fall all over the map laying a light drift of snow in some spots at random moments and larger drifts at spots at another random moment during a match. The randomness of the snowfall would be set to certain areas of the map so as not to make it SC2: Snow Wars. So you wouldn't have the possibility of getting your base encircled by snow. Though the snow would be constantly falling throughout the game just not affecting the environment unless it was in certain spots as to add a more realistic feel to Frozen Planets, while, keeping in the balance of SC2.
@ Wlck742, the lightning wouldn't instantly kill nor would it fully destroy a Mothership as its a ship that could in all likely hood A. Deflect it and B have backup generators or something to the like.. It might just stun it in the air for a moment, similar to the phoenix after its Area Effect Discharge in that it would be temporarily powerless and crippled. As I totally agree a Lightning bolt should not cost you 1000 Minerals/Gas ,although, I did imagine the image of a Mothership exploding in mid air ,which, resembled Independence Day. The instant kill would be on most infantry or mortal units. Not so much on large mechanical/organic(For Zerg) ;D
@ kehmdaddy, I like your ideas of the unique features each race could have to make weather patterns part of game play. And I really like your idea of the snow drifts in a crevasse Protoss would need to be wary on certain maps as would all races and there heavy assault forces... ;)

[burkid]

i just dont like the idea of affecting gameplay in general, unless it just made it harder for the player to see (i.e. a sandstorm)

[Major Willy]

Well then it'll have to make that area harder to see for everyone.

[burkid]

yes, thats what i meant.

[ShdwyTemplar]

The snow drifts would be similar to say the destructible environment, but it would be one that appears at random. Thats what I meant by anything involving gameplay. :P Although if a unit were there... don't wanna think about that. anyways.... Ya to clear it up that the snow drifts would be like the destructible environment.

[Major Willy]

That's a meh idea. It would just annoy players. If it's random it wouldn't aid much...

[Wlck742]

I wouldn't mind having a destructible environment, just not one that continues to build up at random intervals at random places. It's realistic, but it's not fun.

[ShdwyTemplar]

Okay one final clearing up on this. There are set positions on the map where snow drifts will/could spawn. During play on the map random snow would fall not becoming part of the environment. In any one of the previously set position Snow Drifts will form as destructible environment. These Snow Drifts would appear at random moments during play allowing for a new strategy to be made after either A. The snow drift previously there was destroyed (Hence the destructible environment) or B. There was no snow there at all. The snow drifts would sit there not disturbing gameplay unless attacked, but if attacked would block certain entrances/exits that needed to be blocked or would create new pathways across canyons or even frozen rivers. .
If a unit was caught in these snow drifts they would be slowed for only a few seconds (much like snare ability of Queen, but much shorter) and would not be buried underneath the snow. (Much like if you would place a barracks down and a marine walked by at that one moment. The Marines would be pushed out.)
(kehmdaddy came up with this great idea on to my own idea.) Now saying that if a snow drift blocked a path it would A. Be destroyable from the level that path is on or B. Be traversable on the level the snow drift had been previously on. Noting that if a unit was too heavy for the snow it would collapse the drift and be lost with whatever other units were on it. This would allow for set areas to be remembered for future reference or use getting to an enemy base, all the while, protecting your own or allowing certain areas to be created into "choke holds" for strategic countering. This may be a more complete view of my idea for Snowstorms. On the other weathers.. well I'll let you try to explain them and see if I can be sparked off your ideas. :P

[zeratul11]

nice ideas shdwytemplar.

heres mine.

dessert storm will blind all units(air and ground) temporarily not allowing them to accurately hit enemies. less damage, think of darkswarm. but mechanical units are not affected and so as certain type of units like dark templars, banshee, etc. this kind of mechanics adds more strategies and options. 8)

i'll think of some more later.

anyway im hoping that weathers plays a major part and have effect on gameplay etc. this will add up more strategy which makes the game more dynamic and innovative.

unfortunately, i think it will not happen in starcraft 2. so far.

[Wlck742]

How about this:

This is only for the space platforms:

Meteor shower: a shower of small meteorites from nearby space crash into the platform, doing damage to any units or buildings it hits, as well as reducing sight range:

Twillight maps:

Psionic Emissions:

At random places in these maps, large amounts of psionic energy flow through the crust, temporarily increasin the energy of all caster units in the area while reducing health and shields.

Char-ish maps (forgot what they're called)

Earthquake:

At random intervals, an earthquake shakes across the entire map, doing constant damage to all units not on high ground, as well as a slowing effect. (ground only)

Jungle:

Thunder storm:

A storm pours rain and lightning onto the map, lowering sight range for all units and buildings. When struck by lightning, organic units take a small amount of damage, around 5-10 and mechanical/robotic units and buildings take damage and temporarily stop all activity 3-5 secs.

[TheFearless]

adding weather is cool but it shouldn't deal damage to units

[StormCrow]

I'd really love the waether to be a visual effect !

However randomizing things would not be good, because we aren't trowing dices here, we are playing SC2 :P If two equally skilled players would play against each other and one of them would lose just because the random lightning stuns his thor for a couple of seconds. No that wouldn't be fair in my opinion.

Great post nvertheless !

[ShdwyTemplar]

Well a way to deal with the lightning would be to add the reality that after lightning clashes there is thunder. So we could on a map with lightning hear thunder and go "Oh a storm is occurring better prepare for lightning."As I get quite sick of hearing music repeated in matches and some sound effects beyond unit noises, weapons fire, and grunts of units would be a great if added. I imagine being on a B.Net map and hearing a far off battle in the distance between two other players. ;D But that will be a discussion for another Thread later on as this is about the weather.
All in all knowing Blizzard two things would happen if they implement something to the caliber of this 1. It's Blizzard have they been wrong before? Note I do not need an answer to that question. 2. If they do implement it they will balance it because we only come up with ideas that could add to the game as we may like them or not. They will find balance, not us, we can only speculate and besides its SC2 regardless of the weather ;D.

[Remy]

There is nothing "strategic" about random elements and uncontrollable factors in a straightforward real time strategy game such as StarCraft.

Comments after a game like "darn, I wish the lightning struck you instead" or "I would've beat you if it snowed harder" belong in La-La Land.

What the hell is La-La-Land you say?  What?  You don't know?  It's the same magical realm containing game mechanics involving random numbers that you have no control over to decide outcome in games.  Games where you surely would've beaten the other guy if you only had critted 12 times in a row, and skillful strategy where you do nothing but sit on your ass and wait to see if you get to win because you had consistantly higher dice rolls are all found in that wonderful place.

Quite frankly, I personally don't even think this entire thread belongs here in the strategy discussions section.  It should go in general discussion as I see it, but that's me personally.

[GrahamTastic]

I think it would be ok for weather to have small effects on units. Like, say, units with lazer weapons do 5% less damage in rain, or visibility is slightly decreased in snow. This would be for all races, so it wouldn't necessarily throw off the balance. It would just add some flavor to the game. Any thoughts?

[Warsaw]

weather seems more of a C&C thing. In RA2, Allies could build weathor control things and send thunder storms over enemy bases (basically like a nuke).... and in the tiberium series there were ion storms and lightning struck all over which could kill units, destroy bridges, create lower ground craters... there were even meteor showers. Nah keep weather just for aesthetics.

[JudicatorPrime]

Yeah, im not into the whole weathe playing a big part, they've already said you can blow chuck off the environment to change the playing field... im fine with that, anything else would be annoying, especially lightning. As for lasers doing less damage, that makes no sense at all... They're laser GUNS not laser lights.

[Gasmaskguy]

i got some ideas;

if it snows, all land units gets their speed cut down with lets say 25%.

a sandstorm would make air units move 25% slower, since its hard for them to maneuver when the winds are that strong.

if it rains, all ranged units loose 25% of their range.

and, when its night all units looses 25-50 sight.

these things would effect certain units just a little, instead of forcing them to take other ways or get pissed because of lightning.

[ijffdrie]

blizzard please add these options in the editor