Guardian Landing

[TidalSpiral]

Just randomly thought this up. What if you could land Guardians? It would make sense, they are basically giant flying crabs. This would give them a strategic option, because they have good range and could fly over a river. Afterwards, to dodge the turrets firing at them, they drop to the ground and keep shooting blobs of acid.

[Fenix]

If they dropped and were still able to attack, wouldn't that just make them Zerg siege tanks?

[DontHate]

yea too imba. It would be able to dodge corsairs and valks and whatnot.

[Fenix]

WTF does Imba mean.

[TidalSpiral]

So? There are plenty of units that could kill guardians on the land, including siege tanks. All the things they are immune to normally would be able to eat them if they landed so it is the same risk as normal. I think it would be very strategic though and give good new options.

[burkid]

WTF does Imba mean.

imbalanced.

[DontHate]

So? There are plenty of units that could kill guardians on the land, including siege tanks. All the things they are immune to normally would be able to eat them if they landed so it is the same risk as normal. I think it would be very strategic though and give good new options.

Dude, you're saying siege tanks can kill gaurdians on the land. poof they're on the air and ur tanks are dead. it's pretty much a dropship and a siege tank in one, except the dropship can also attack the ground.

[JudicatorPrime]

WTF does Imba mean.


Oh god that made me lol, lol.

Since they're crabs they should hide in rivers... durr?

[PancakeChef]

Well, instead of keeping the same attack it has in the air they could change it when its in ground form, similar to the Viking unit the Terran already have.

[DontHate]

now it's just TOO similar to the viking. There should be originality in starcraft, instead of other rts's where tehre are like essentially 10 units that all do the same job.

[Itsmyship]

Dude...they'd do EXACTLY the same thing as them in the air, except they could dodge corsairs/valks...and even in the air they can go wherever the hell they want.

[DontHate]

yea, they'd dodge their main weakness.

[TidalSpiral]

That's all the idea was... to dodge that inherent weakness but nevermind. I've been overruled.

Anyway I didn't think it was too overpowered, marines could shoot them either ground or air, there are plenty of units that would override this ability. All it would do is force people to use more than air-to-air to kill guardians.

[PancakeChef]

I agree it would be to similar to the Viking, but thats all I could think of to balance the landing ability out.

[TidalSpiral]

If it was really something that gave them too much, which I don't think it would be, then you could also give it a timer... for instance, when you click to land the Guardian, it flutters it's wings for two seconds as it slowly lands. That way both ground and air can have an opportunity to finish it off before it escapes.

[DontHate]

That's all the idea was... to dodge that inherent weakness but nevermind. I've been overruled.

Anyway I didn't think it was too overpowered, marines could shoot them either ground or air, there are plenty of units that would override this ability. All it would do is force people to use more than air-to-air to kill guardians.

think of a unit that could counter this... marines would die before they get in range, fyi.

[TidalSpiral]

Not unless the Zerg had a ton of Guardians, and in that case you should have plenty of Vikings or B. Cruisers or Stalkers or Immortals or anything that shoots both ground and air. All could counter it.

Also Cobras, which would move fast enough to close the gap while the Guardian takes it's first shot. Ghosts could snipe them. Reapers might be able to withstand enough to kill them. Turrets/bunker/cannons would work. It's not like some godly ability guys.

[DontHate]

all ground units that attack air to ground would not be a true counter. Maybe you might kill the gaurdians, but to do so you would need a lot of those units. It's sort of saying the counter for siege tanks are zerglings. yea they can kill them if you make a whole lot of em', but air would be better. Now the only real counter are air units that attack air and ground.

[TidalSpiral]

True, but I mentioned Battle Cruisers which would work well. Protoss air would probably do well also.

[DontHate]

It's not like people would go through all that trouble to get battle cruisers or tempests, i mean by that time i bet their base is in ruin.

[burkid]

you know what the best way to balance this is? Dont have guardians land at all.

[DontHate]

yea, way too imbalenced. I hope gaurds still make it to sc2 though, but with a better name.

[zeratul11]

how about making the guardians land but are not able to attack and will move(glide) 2x slower on land.

[Fenix]

See, when he first mentioned the "Landing" thing, I immediately though of Gargoyles from WC3. Not good.

[burkid]

hmm, i didnt make that connection. i just thought imbalanced as soon as i read it.

[ninerman13]

Well maybe they could add landing as a last-ditch escape attempt - the Guardian will camouflage with the ground so that it could wait for reinforcements in a botched attack or defensive struggle. Of course, detector units would render this ability useless, but it would be worth saving the occasional Guardian from destruction.

*Side Note - I am now a Recruit. YAY!*

[NotDeadYet]

how about making the guardians land but are not able to attack and will move(glide) 2x slower on land.

The only reason anybody would ever use that is to escape a group of marauding air-to-air attackers. In SC2, so far we have not seen a single air-to-air attacking unit. Phoenixes, Warp Rays, Motherships, Battlecruisers, Vikings, and Mutalisks (Probably) can all attack both air and ground.

[DontHate]

well, vikings are A2A in air mode, and the gaurdian can avoid them, considering the viking has a switching animation. It would be dumb but hey, it would work. Just saying.

[NotDeadYet]

Lol, I can imagine. A viking - Guardian fight in which they both keep switching between modes...

Shortly before a Mothership flies in and black-holes both of them. Mwahahaha!

[burkid]

in which case they both land and avoid it.

[DontHate]

and then i guess the viking dies.

[Star-Crap]

why would it even land to destroy a turret? They could do it just as safely from teh air.

[marinepower]

On a side note, how would the guardians attack from the ground anyways if they lob acid. At best when on the ground they could spill some acid all over the ground and hope it hurts something, but besides that the guardian can't do much.

Landing would also deminish the role of the already hurting devourer, too.

[ArchLimit]

Yea, I'm not too big a fan of the landing guardian idea. It would just seem like a really awkward move on the Guardians part, especially when they come across so well as "bombers." It'd be weird to see them on the ground shooting like an artillery cannon IMO.

[Ghost]

Just randomly thought this up. What if you could land Guardians? It would make sense, they are basically giant flying crabs. This would give them a strategic option, because they have good range and could fly over a river. Afterwards, to dodge the turrets firing at them, they drop to the ground and keep shooting blobs of acid.


So basically a zerg viking?

[Indigent]

I am definatly a no. Then I started thinking about why there are air to air in the first place. Missle turrents shoot missles... Why can't they just shoot ground units with splash damage like with siege tanks, and just like what marine power said about devours. Something to think about...0.o

[burkid]

two reasons: balance and its a game.

[Joneagle_X]

I don't think its all that bad an idea and should definitely not be attacked so.

That adds an interesting twist to an old unit, just like the zealots having their new charging abillity.

I actually like this idea. I'm wondering about how the attack would be different, because I would assume you should change the range. You can't give them the same range as they would have in the air in my opinion.

Maybe it could be something like them firing only at the ground while in the air and only at the air while on the ground.

This has interesting possibilities. :thumbup:

[slugonice]

TOO Imba

[opm]

Dude, you're saying siege tanks can kill gaurdians on the land. poof they're on the air and ur tanks are dead.  it's pretty much a dropship and a siege tank in one, except the dropship can also attack the ground.


I'd like to point out how much anti-zerg has already been built into the terrans. the banshee alone cancels out a ground type guardian unit. in fact the banshee is going to be my most hated unit when the game is released. I still have to figured out how i'm going to counter it as a zerg with the current set of units other than being forced to build both a hydralisk den and a spire, which is not a strategy i typically use. that within itself is a detriment to zerg let alone the terran units new abilities. let's not forget the viking which will just own guardians. here's to hoping the viking range has been decreased.

[Eye_Carumba]

I have a better idea: What if landed guardians can only attack air? they would be a nice way to fight (possibly) the Banshees. Mind these:

-Banshees don't attack air, so overlords could spot them without worries (not from them);
-Banshees wouldn't have a such long range as the Guardian, leaving a good space to kill them if microed correctly;
-Guardians would have to be vulnerable (on the ground) to Banshees to attack them, and wouldn't be able to attack other ground units while on ground, making enough weaknesses for them;
-With Zergs, going to ground would make them vulnerable to lings, so it wouldn't be abused;

Since ppl were saying the Zerg need a new anti-air besides hydras, why not make the Guardian the one? It would be a slow-anti-air-bombardment unit. One that could lift off and change it's role back to the old one. And to prevent it from becoming an abusive skill, make it have a cooldown. They would still be vulnerable to Vikings, VERY vulnerable I might add.

EDIT: I just noticed that Joneagle_X had already the same idea. I really read that last sentence, but apparently forgot while reading opm's post. Anyway, it's a nice dissertation on the idea, explaining it more, since his post wasn't focused entirely on it.

[BnechbReaker]

when the guardians land they lose the height so they won't be able to project their acid spores as far as when they are in the air, if at all

[Eye_Carumba]

If they were throwing the spores to the air, the distance would be given by the height of it's targets, not his own. If he had the power to throw spores in such long distances before hitting the ground, he can throw them in the air as well. ;-)

[opm]

the more i think about this guardian landing idea, the more i hate it. sorry it's a no on my end.

[Indigent]

I thought this thread was deleted cause I never saw any new posts. I still don't like the idea. Besides people making Starcraft II will probally read this and know a lot of people disagree. If Terran get banshees in such big numbers killing marines in one hit think of what zerg will get. They will ballance the game out so it doesn't have to be so complicated.

[TidalSpiral]

Wow, this thread is still among the top few here. :D And almost everyone hated the concept, but since my curiousity has been aroused again...

I still think anyone calling this "imbalanced" is reading too much into it. All it would do is protect them from strict air attack, and there are tons of units that could pop them easily either way. As for the whole "but acid can't fly from the ground WTF", give me a break. Ever see Alien VS Predator where they sling their tail and acid FLIES forward? It's not like some far fetched Alice in Wonderland ability to shoot acid from the ground.

Now to the one mentioning that it could hurt the usage of Devourers, first off I hope they don't even bring those things back, or if they do that they are given a whole new style. Secondly we don't know that they are yet so using them as an argument against the ability seems kind of cock eyed, however I accept the opinion and if Devourers do return then I see your point about making both useful.

About the "why destroy turrets on ground if you can from the air" thing. Why not? If the Guardian had a different attack on ground, that could give reason enough. Even if it used the same attack, you might hit the ground just to keep them safe from an air attacker that you saw earlier (Predator for instance). You could also simply ignore missile turret and send the Guardians running in to kill SCV's or Probes.

I'm being aggressive on purpose. ;) Most of all I'm just glad to see a little controversy. lol

[BnechbReaker]

If they were throwing the spores to the air, the distance would be given by the height of it's targets, not his own. If he had the power to throw spores in such long distances before hitting the ground, he can throw them in the air as well. ;-)


sorry what do you mean by "throwing the spores to the air" ? when they are on the ground?

to be precise, when in the air the distance traveled by the spores would be effected by

the power of the guardian
the height of the guardian
the height of the target
the air resistance

so if you really like the guardian's max range should be higher in space tile-sets (no air resistance) but it's only a game ;-)