Using Banelings like spider mines?

[mc2]

In starcraft 1, I remember once or twice where I used Infested Terrans as spider mines. Burrow them along the trail from my base to the enemy's base. When the enemy walks drectly above the infested terrans, I would unburrow them, killing the majority of units they sent out. But I don't use it that often because 100 minerals and 50 gas is quite expensive for using it like spider mines.

So in starcraft 2, you can probably do the same thing with banelings. Burrow them near or outside the choke to your base, then wait until the enemy steps right on top of them, you unburrow and let the banelings rip the damage. Let's hope the banelings will not be that expensive to make in starcraft 2, so it can actually be viable to use them like spider mines. Not to mention putting them along a top of a cliff, and when enemy passes by down below, the Banelings will roll down the cliff and destroy them.

[Hadean]

Hm. That would involve a fair bit of micro I would imagine. Because if they work similarly to Inf Terrans then their own splash could prove to be their downfall, you couldn't just a + left click the ambush.

Def a cool idea though. If they're noob-friendly with splash damage, they could be the easiest way to wipe out a bunched up enemy.

[burkid]

do we know if banelings can burrow yet?

[Hadean]

You bring up a good point. They certainly dont seem like they can burrow. Hm, too bad MC2, that was a cool idea.

[IO]

Even if they could not, one could simply place a line burrowable units in the middle of the track while the banelings sit at the edge out of sight of the enemy then suddenly send them in. However this would take alot of scouting and preperation as setting traps in starcraft (the more complex ones not the simple lurker/spider mine line) can be rather hard.

[generalrievous]

hmm would be interesting to see if those rolly pollys do in fact burrow

[marshal109]

i think its just gonna be a lot of microing and not for a first timer

[Hunter]

do we know if banelings can burrow yet?

They don't look like they can.. as they roll around, I don't see their legs, so I dunno how they could dig.
But anything depends on Blizzard..:)

[mc2]

It wouldn't make sense that the Banelings can't burrow. All zerg ground unit should be able to burrow, even the ultralisk.

But after thinking about it, I'd it's probably too expensive to use them like spider mines. But it will be very useful in maps with cliffs leading to choke points.

[Indigent]

Infested trran could burrow? I tried that idea only except aplied it as a kamikazee unit. It didn't work. It kept running to another unit, rather then the closest unit as I wanted. Even with droping on SCVs.

[string_me_along]

Another problem with using them to scout enemy locations is if the banelings are further up the tech tree. If they are tier 2 or tier 3, you probably already know where the enemy base is so the scouting function is kind of limited. I'd also like to see it's movement and HP compared to the Zergling's. if the Zergling is faster and/or more HP, they'd probably make a better unit to move into the fog of war and see what's going on in an enemy base.

Also zerglings can burrow and can attack without blowing themselves up.

When I played zerg more often, I would use them kind of like spider mines, but would try to mostly concentrate them on workers. They could do repeated damage (and heal!) which spider mines can't.

[TerranGod]

It wouldn't make sense that the Banelings can't burrow. All zerg ground unit should be able to burrow, even the ultralisk.

But after thinking about it, I'd it's probably too expensive to use them like spider mines. But it will be very useful in maps with cliffs leading to choke points.


i agree
in the starcraft: ghost trailer there was an ultralisk that suddenly splurted out from the ground...
but banelings digging...i cant imagine that

[BirdofPrey]

Why not.  I bet they lie flat on the ground when not moving but roll up when they move.

[burkid]

in the starcraft: ghost trailer there was an ultralisk that suddenly splurted out from the ground...

ummm no there wasnt. there were a few zerglings that popped up, but the ultra came running down the canyon like the hundreds of other zerg present.
just when you first see it its reared up on its hind legs. not unburrowing.

[moobox]

i think its just gonna be a lot of microing and not for a first timer


Very true, but if you let each gamer play the game and units at their own level it makes an enjoyable experience for all.

[Protosscommander]

Using Banelings is a big deal with the big armored Units :) thats what i thought :)

[JDMFanatic]

banelings were rather slow in the gameplay trailers... will there be a speed upgrade as well?

[10-Neon]

No idea of there'll be a speed upgrade, but they're fine without one. I mean, they're (presumably) cheap, easy to produce, and do a lot of damage. You wouldn't be able to use them to take out an active defense, but say... sneak some Zerglings in early on, burrow them, morph them all over before the target can react...

[Protosscommander]

Well i think the reason why BAnelings are too slow, like they say that it has a chemical inside of it thats why he is hard to move faast because of the chemical inside :)

[ItzaHexGor]

Not all Zerg units should be able to burrow. Most certainly not the Ultralisk because Ultra's are just to big to be able to hide in the ground. But with Banelings burrowing, unless the evolution from Zergie to Baneling cost a LOT, they would be way too powerful. Just imagine how easy it would be to overrun an enemy.
The player could just mass Zergies, morph them into Baneling and burrow them to set up a pincer ambush outside the entrance to the enemies base, and have a third group burrowed a bit further back. When their attack marches out it would be instantly mashed by the ambush. The team's defenses would come out to try and assist the attack, and get blown up by the Baneling survivors of the ambush and the third group could just roll in to cripple their base. (Although I made that sound complicated, it is actually very easy to set up. I do a similar thing with 2 groups of Lurkers and a third group of Zergies in BW.)
So if Banelings could burrow they would have to be very expensive, which would make more sense, because no-one should be able to just morph 50+ zergies into bombs once they breach their opponents base.

[ijffdrie]

erm, never thought of bringing a detector with your army?

[Hadean]

Yeah I was gonna say. This is good for quick ambushes on forces, but not to the scale you're talking about and probably not good for late game when expeditions will have atleast one detector with them. If banes are early in the tech tree then yes your strat is plausible though for that exact reason they may be limited to mid-later game

[Trooper_Lozer]

ya most guys would take a detector with them... but how fast do you guys think it takes to morph into the baneling? cause according to the video, those zerglings morphed really fast. so what if you Incorporated this into a new strategy where you sent your main army. when the enemy brings out the high tier units, or masses lots of guys, such as marines, you have say ur hydralisk in front shooting and your zerglings behind morphing when they are done you send the zerglings and baneling mix ( you would keep some of the original zerglings) towards the enemy. the zerglings would mainly attract the fire since they run faster (or at least we suppose) and the banelings explode on the clusters of marines that usually protect the tanks, or the immortals, supposing that the enemies zealots have engaged in a battle with your hydralisk. of course this would probably require lots of macroing, it could be done i think. The most limiting factor would be that the baneling might take a while to morph, therefore it actually may make more sense to do it before.

Another idea would b to load banelings on a overlord, like the infesteddrop idea, and drop them behind enemy lines, this would rely on the fact that banelings, unlike the infested Terran, have a good targeting system. In SC 1 they would just fall out and usually die... But wut if u use this idea to attack the big gun units in the back of the line? , such as the tanks and colossus. They are just ideas though and I'm not saying they are possible, just that they are not impossible.

[ItzaHexGor]

I reckon that the time it takes for Zerglings to morph into Banelings would be around the same as Hydras to Lurkers and Mutas to Guardians/Devourers. (All that stuff is sped up in the demonstration videos, just check out how quickly they built the Thor!) This would make it hard to morph during an attack. I'd say if your doing a proper assault, keep a fair few Banelings rolling at the back of your army, so that you can either then bring them through to blow up the brunt of their defense while the rest of your army takes the damage, or keep them for the end for if your assault is successful. They'd make destroying buildings a whole lot easier if they're anything like Infested Terran.

Overlording the Banelings in would be an awesome tactic, if you can find a safe flight path to the back of their base then you could instantly destroy their economy and even take down the Command Center/Nexus/Hive if your lucky. Taking out their main building would be one hell of a hindrance.

[Xarthat]

If Blizzard keep their philosophy, Banelings shouldn't be expensive and they could be used as "Zerg Spider Mines". But those rolling things... it is one of the points that I don't like in SC2. It is pointless to me- if I will use any of them, just to make "Spider Mines".

[kuvasz]

Yeah that rolling thing is ridiculous. In fact, unlike a few weeks ago when I mentioned it, I can say it's unrealistic because the word is actually used in the latest Q&A! :D So Blizzard actually takes realism into account to a certain extent. Now it's obvious we'll only see realism in a conservative way from a sci-fi RTS point of view, but even that rules some things out, like the banelings doing somersaults, it's just not good for the eyes.
I'd rather see a demented kind of move for them, like those suicidal things in Diablo 2.

[Z-BosoN]

It's not that ridiculous, the rolling of the Banelings. They have so much acid inside them that they get fat and can't walk. The only way of locomotion is rolling.

I am pretty sure that is why Blizzard chose to make them roll like a ball. I don't think you would need to use them as Spider Mines, unless the enemy doesn't have any detectors. I'd much rather have a moving bomb then a hidden stationary one.

Maybe they can have a Burrow upgrade specifically for the Banelings, so they can be used as a Spider Mine, maybe?

[kuvasz]

... that wouldn't make much sense imho. Why would Zerglings lose their ability to burrow? Anyway, being fat doesn't justify the idiotic rolling. Walruses are fat yet they crawl and jump and do whatever it takes to get from A to B even though it'd be real easy for them to roll on their sides.

[generalrievous]

they should be like centipedes when moving and the rolling should be an upgrade, problem solved :thumbup:

[Shadowdragon]

I like the idea of using canals to ambush armies with them... bye bye siege tanks.

[ItzaHexGor]

Why would Zerglings lose their ability to burrow? Anyway, being fat doesn't justify the idiotic rolling. Walruses are fat yet they crawl and jump and do whatever it takes to get from A to B even though it'd be real easy for them to roll on their sides.

I think he means that there will be an upgrade for all Zerg except Banelings to burrow, like StarCraft1, and then there would be a Baneling Burrow upgrade after the first one. I don't like the idea of Banelings Burrowing though, because they don't have any claws or anything to Burrow with. Also, Walrus are not filled with explosive chemicals, so obviously they are able to crawl and jump. Think of the Banelings as portable eggs, like the ones when evolving Larvae to proper units. It does make sense, but I would still prefer it if it had little legs underneath it like a tick.