Terran Predator, is it even necessary?

[Remy]

Just when I was glad that they got rid of the Valkyrie, we find out about the Predator. Unless it has some special abilities, it is already redundant with the Viking air form, which was one of the reasons why Valk sucked.

I don't really understand why Terran would need an additional dedicated AA, especially when Valkyrie fell miserably short. Although still too early to tell, it look almost like Blizzard is repeating the same mistakes again. Terran players didn't get Valks beause Wraith could do the job and was better in every other way, it looks as if it will be the same thing this time, only people not getting Preds because they could mass Vikes and have it work.

Terran already has great AA capabilities, and now more than ever. They have so much ground based AA, and ground based AA is way more important than dedicated AA only units.

Terran ground combat units that can attack air: Marine, Cobra, Viking ground form, Ghost, Thor. That's five, Zerg had only 1 in SC1 and they managed just fine. In addition Battlecruiser and Viking air form also provide additional air based anti-air. That's seven ways for Terran to attack air with units, that's a lot, and that's without the Predator. With Predator, it will be eight, that is a LOT.

Protoss only has two ground units that can attack air at the moment, Terran has 5. I'm sure most people can tell that Blizzard has put a large emphasis on the Protoss air fleet, it's incredible and covers everything needed, very close to being self sufficient without ground support. But even with Protoss presumably designed to have the strongest air force in SC2, Protoss still has only six different means of attacking air assuming Carrier and MS can still attack air, air and ground units combined.

Unless the Predator is so unique that its details will drop the jaws of every SC fan, I think it would be better to just scrap it and give Terran something else instead. Terran doesn't need another Valkyrie.

[GuiMontag]

its a bit premature to think about scrapping it, have they even released any information about attack type, range, speed, hp, cost, tier, spells. also what makes you think viking will be stronger?

[paragon]

I'd like to know a lot more about it before deeming it unnecessary. Although the first thought that came into my mind when I heard that it was a dedicated AA unit was "wait... the viking does that."

[Remy]

Although still too early to tell...


Umm.. yea, I've pointed that out myself GuiMontag, before you get ready to jump the gun on me, read my post.  So then at this point what are we to talk about?  The weather?  It's an opinion based purely on speculation reflecting on how Terran was in the past.  You think all the new topics are popping up right now because people got their hands on stats?

And I didn't know that I thought the Vikes would be stronger than Preds, please point out where I slipped my mouth on that.  Because actually, my entire first post is assuming the Preds taking over the Valk's old job, and almost for certain would be stronger than Vike's AA.  And this is all if Preds don't have some really special tricks but is just a combat unit. Also do notice that the majority of the post strays away from Vikes, but rather the overall AA potential of the Terran race.

Feel free to disagree with me, but make some sense when you do.

@ Paragon, where've you been all this time?  It was kinda weird not seeing the Tobasco girl in every thread.  I still think that she's giving me a look btw...

[Exvasion]

Vikings are going to be a very important ground unit in the terran arsenal, I think their ground capability is their more important role. Viking air ability is a counter to fast air attacks that terrans were so vulnerable too in SC, such as mutalisks. Like the website even said, this will give the terrans the ability to counter that without having to rely solely on turrets and goliaths who aren't as mobile. For heavy aa in the later game the Predator will be your unit, while Viking air ability will be most useful in giving it mobility, but it will be better suited to ground combat.

[GuiMontag]

well you said it would be redunant with the viking air form and that people wont get preds because there massing valk.
I still think its too early to think about scrapping it.

[PancakeChef]

Yes, the Viking isnt a solely dedicated air unit. The unit doesn't have to replace the valk or wraith or anything either since this is an entirely new game. The viking may have anti air capablities but by no means makes it the staple Terran anti air.

Remy, I think the reason why he thinks you think vikings are stronger than predator because it seems you are saying the Viking is good enough and that the Terran doesn't need another unit that fits a similar role. That would be like saying the Protoss don't need a Warp ray or anything because they already got a anti air unit the Phoenix.

I think the Predator is indeed nesscary since the Viking is more a multi-purpose ambusher, moblie attacker, etc.

[Remy]

It's because that's exactly what happened in the past for Terran. Even though valks were the designated AA, most people still took wraiths over them and valks were never used. Valks were one-dimensional and overspecialized, also an over-commiting choice. People naturally took wraiths over valks cuz wraiths were generally more useful and had much better tactical options, but were also good enough AA. This equals redundance between valks and wraith AA, yet wraith AA was merely a partial aspect of the unit as a whole. It was even more plausible for Terran to choose wraith over an actual dedicated AA unit because Terran by design already have much AA capabilities otherwise because Terran is all ranged weaponry, it is more so now in SC2, way more so.

Now it's happening again. I can't see how any good can come of Preds being part of Terran. If Vike air form is so weak that Pred's existence is justified, then it hurts the Vike in that it will be mediocre offensively all around. Goliaths were not good with their ground damage output, but had awsome AA. If a Vike had sorry AA, then there would be no reason to be in air form other than to cross terrain since it has AA in ground form and staying grounded is generally safer against air. Now if you add it all up, you would get a Vike that's on the ground almost all the time yet it doesn't have a strength in AA or AG, it's even worse than goliaths. So weak Vike air from AA = bad.

Now consider the opposite, strong Vike air form AA, now you end up with a much better overall design and purpose for the Vike unit. However, since the AA capabilities of the Vike is decent AND Terran already has obscene AA by default, you would really go for more Vikes to cover more uses for more situations instead of Preds even though Preds are stronger AA. If Vike air form AA doesn't suck and is good enough AA combined with the rest of Terran AA(and there's a LOT), why would you put the same money into anything AA only? The more strategically prudent investment would be the one that is more versatile all around and capable of meeting different demands in different situations. Thus, in this scenario, the Pred AA would be a redudance. So now, strong Vike air form AA = bad also.

It is bad only if Pred is in the game, or at least as a Terran unit. It is better for Terran overall to just have a strong Viking air form, even scrapping the ground form air attack altogether if need be. I don't see how one of the two(Pred AA and Vike AA) will not be limp. Basically I'm saying make the Vike air form BE the Predator, and scrap the ground form air attack if after play testing the Vike is too strong overall.

All this is of course, as I've said before, only if the Predator doesn't have some incredible super unique special abilities or jaw dropping tricks. If it's just an air fighter, no matter how you tweak the stats, you're gonna end up with one dead Terran unit, whether it's the Pred or the Vike.

EDIT: @PancakeChef, Warpray and Phoenix wouldn't be redundant because the Warpray can't do a Phoenix's job, against mutas Rays will get raped. Protoss also does not have the huge ground based AA capability like Terran, in that there is only Stalker and TA.


I think the Predator is indeed nesscary since the Viking is more a multi-purpose ambusher, moblie attacker, etc.


No, because that's exactly what a Wraith was. Yet, Valks(being what Preds presumably would be) almost never got used. It's the exact situation as before, Vike's versatility doesn't change things. The only thing is that the Predator still holds a wildcard, since it could be completely awsome and way more than just dedicated AA.

[Fenix]

Wait, what is this Predator?

[zeratul11]

if predator would be a AA flying unit for the terran then i hope its attack is LONG RANGE. fires spinning missiles at very long range (longer than the siege tanks in siege modes). that would be cool for its name, predator. and so that it will not be useless like the valkerye which are vulnerable to ground attacks. it will be safe against ground units most of the time cause im guessing it would be fast and fires or attacks at a safe distance.

banshees plus predators combo would be something. 8)

i hope blizzard read this. lol

[Sir_Wezlo]

Well let us not forget that the Zerg are suppose to be the ultimate ground fighters with their ability to swarm huge numbers into a base. They have not conferemed any Zerg units for the game yet... this frightens me. Sure we know that their basic uints are going to be in the game but, what about the ones they(Blizzard) have kept MOST secret? The Protoss are good with both air and ground, the Terrans are great with air and the Zerg we all know are the best on the ground. We can't judge what we don't fully know. Maybe if the Terrans take control of the sky and can kill without using ground units then the Zerg could be in trouble.

[Dxun]

@remy: Maybe i missed something but what makes you think the predator will even have an attack?

If you look at the US military today they have an actual plane, or a UAV (unmaned air vehicle) called ..

a predator, they were made for recon at first but eventually had weapons mounted on them so it could be the new science vessel, a flying detector with some ability's

[paragon]

This is in another thread but I'll stick it here for better organization so we only have one thread on the Predator.
http://sc2spot.com/content/view/43/1/
"Wraiths are back as an anti-air unit called the Predator. They can switch between a form that attacks air units and a form that intercepts incoming missiles and destroys them. When it transforms, the lasers switch positions. It is a three-pronged aircraft just like the Wraith, but cannot stealth."

I think thats a pretty useful ability. Although if it just intercepts missiles and by missiles they only mean actual missiles rather than missile type attacks then it would only be good against terran. But if they mean missile attacks then it is pretty cool.

@remy: I had some stuff I was busy with.

[Remy]

I don't know why the Predator is described as the new Wraith when they are very different and don't have much in common.  But an air unit that is used to intercept incoming missiles would be very unique, although if it's only actual "missiles" perhaps kinda useless like you said Paragon.

After watching the new Terran video, I am more inclined to believe that the Vike air form = Wraith AA, not in exact damage numbers but the nature of it.  They described it as good against capital ships, which will be good single hits as opposed to good AoE vs tactical air.  The Vike air form itself IS the tactical air, which was also what Wraith was.  A tactical air unit such as wraith or scout, generally are adequate AA in conjuction with the rest of your forces, but not the best against swarms of air.

@ Dxun, I believe an air-only attack was the initial info we started with. Hence, all this talk of it taking the place of valks and whatnot.

[PancakeChef]

You got to remember though this isn't the first Starcraft and things work differently this time around. Then there is the fact the Starport can be upgraded to Starbase to make able to produce while lifted off and moving and how are you gonna make anti-air for your other units when the Viking is a ground unit coming from the factory.

In my opinion the Viking is a different role than the Predator. How can you say its only for anti-air and is the main anti-air for Terrans when it starts out as Ground support and the main strategies Blizzard suggests its use for etc is like flying into somewhere and reverting back to ground form and that is good for attacking capital ships, no where did they mention it the is the main-stay Terran anti-air just because it attacks air doesn't mean thats it main role or that another unit that can attack air will be redudenat because the Viking already does it. Just as the Warp Ray is a different type of air unit, so is the Predator. The goliath had anti-air but we still had the Wraith didnt we?

You are also making the assumption its gonna play and fit the same roles and uses as similiar units in Starcraft 1, when this is a entirely new game and new mehanics.

[Remy]

PancakeChef, it's great that you go into all this about different roles and this and that and yada yada.  But the fact is, the role of primary AA in SC1 for Terran was VALKYRIE and not Wraith, but guess what?  Every half decent Terran player used WRAITH for AA(we talkin' strictly air AA not ground AA) instead 99% of the time.  So the INTENDED role of anything doesn't mean jack, because that is why I started this topic in the first place.  Yes, there was Wraith even though Goliath had AA, but the point is that Valks were redundant and were not used.  Why didn't you say Marines had AA?  That's not the point, it's what is there yet didn't get used.  And FYI Wraith was the air unit suited for taking down capital ships in SC1 as well.

And quite frankly, I think the Starbase will be quite useless personally.  That high up the tech tree, and it's for AIR units.  If we're talking about a mobile ground unit production building at the top of the tech tree, it might be a different story, but nope it's for air.  The fact is, air units already come with great mobility, why would you need to make them while on-the-move?  It's like a big slow air target that says shoot me if you're bored.  I realize that it has the replenish energy ability thingy, but all of it is just way too high up on the tech tree to see much use at all.  You won't see a Starbase, if it's even worth getting in the first place, in 95% of the standard games you play.

[kenshin72]

can any1 post a picture of the predator i wanna see it

[BoydofZINJ]

The viking while can be a deadly AA i betcha is a bit expensive than a dedicated AA only fighter. Likewise, the transformable mecha are tradionally in other games a bit easier to destroy. Since they have more advance parts that bullets and damage tend to get in the way. So its even possible that the Terrans are getting more flexibility. Imagine you build a large AA only fleet to find you rushed by zealots or zerglings.

[Eye_Carumba]

Valks were great tanks vs. interceptors and corsairs. Because their attacks were splash, they could hit protoss invisible units when targeting the arbiter nearby. And interceptors couldn't have the distracting effect on it's attacks, because enough valks would destroy many interceptors, no matter how many they were, because it doesn't hit any single target. If the players you've played against didn't used Valks, I'm sorry. But Valkiries are a very good unit with many uses in later game, specially since the Terran doesn't have a psy storm to deal with mass air strikes.

I have no idea where exactly Predators would it fit, but apparently it' an air defense ship. So we can expect the terran air to be die hard, now that Nomads can fix them and predators can defend. That will be an interesting combination...

[FlyingTiger]

can any1 post a picture of the predator i wanna see it


Here ya go ^_^
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/2105/805246b67aa0b3ab2ux7.jpg

I think the predators are a necessary and great unit for the terrans. Comparing it to the Valkyrie, the predator is quick, cheap, uses less supply, and an early mobile anti-air unit. I think it plays more of a defensive role because of it's "interceptor" ability, and it does not attack the ground so base assaults are out of the question.

The unit is pretty much early on so it should thwart most air rush assaults.

[Eye_Carumba]

Since the terran doesn't have many invisibility early on, the Protoss would be free to jump to air units. If you don't have predators to defend yourself, you're gone. That's what they're for: protecting against Protoss.

[FlyingTiger]

or zerg... whichever. I mean they are pretty quick to getting air units too, but you are right... it's a good counter against the protoss. Especially when the phase prisms become transporters.

[Shadowdragon]

I'm still not convinced. I always used marines and missiles to defend my base early on from air attacks, and that worked just fine. Besides, if the screenshot is anything to go by, it won't last very long under fire (low health). Worse, if it really is an early game only unit, than it's effectiveness is limited even more. That worries me. Shooting down enemy fire is cool, but I want to know how effectively it does that. In other words, does it stop only missiles or lasers and missiles? Can it stop Ground AA, Air AA or both? Can it stop air to ground attacks?

If it doesn't stop a lot of shots, from a lot of places, than it's trash. After all, not getting hit half the time doesn't kill the enemy. And with only a little health, it wouldn't take too many shots to bring one down. On top of all that, bulk anti-AA exclusive is a huge waste of money, and more importantly, time. I would much prefer to both upgrade my marines and use them, or use the viking.

In short, to many things can be wrong for me to believe the predator is worth it. So until it proves its effectiveness, I'm with Remy.

[Eye_Carumba]

If it's meant for defense, I bet it's HP is not the problem. And ground defense cannot cover a big area, because turrets are immobile, and marines can't shift from side to side of the base so easily. I still agree with you that Predator must remain as aerial defense, in order to keep your forces in the air for longer, and not as an anti-raid unit. In later game I think that's what it will be for: to work together with Nomads in defending/healing the vikings (banshees can just go invisible).

[LordKerwyn]

While im not how effective it would be i see the predator as more of a shield for heavy air units like Battlecruisers so they dont get destroyed right away from focused AA while the predators AA attack is more of something else it can do while not acting like a shield.

[PancakeChef]

Remy, I understand what you are saying but like I have mentioned this isn't Starcraft 1, this is Starcraft 2 a new game with new gameplay elements and doesn't nessicarly have to be exactly like the first. Also what makes the Vikings anti-air not redunent? What happens if its air attack only works on heavy armored captial ships and not very effective on lighter air? They are closer to valkyries than the Predator is, in that their ant-air was built for the same purpose. We havn't even seen it do anything yet, but yet you say its gonna turn out how valkyrive and wraith was in Starcraft 1. I'm not saying its gonna be good or bad yet either, just don't count it out yet.

[burkid]

im gonna assume that the predator is the counter for 'fast, light air', while the viking is for capital ships. i dont have anything to support this claim except for the fact that vikings destroyed the BCs in the demo.

[FlyingTiger]

I'm still not convinced. I always used marines and missiles to defend my base early on from air attacks, and that worked just fine. Besides, if the screenshot is anything to go by, it won't last very long under fire (low health). Worse, if it really is an early game only unit, than it's effectiveness is limited even more. That worries me. Shooting down enemy fire is cool, but I want to know how effectively it does that. In other words, does it stop only missiles or lasers and missiles? Can it stop Ground AA, Air AA or both? Can it stop air to ground attacks?

If it doesn't stop a lot of shots, from a lot of places, than it's trash. After all, not getting hit half the time doesn't kill the enemy. And with only a little health, it wouldn't take too many shots to bring one down. On top of all that, bulk anti-AA exclusive is a huge waste of money, and more importantly, time. I would much prefer to both upgrade my marines and use them, or use the viking. 

In short, to many things can be wrong for me to believe the predator is worth it. So until it proves its effectiveness, I'm with Remy.


- Alright I got a nice example for you... marines vs. colossus or predator vs. colossus. I put my money on the predator.

- We still don't know how fast or what it intercepts yet so you can't call the predator useless at all. I'm guessing it will stop projectiles using its intercept lasers.

- Low health? It's 100 hp. A wraith is 120 hp. It's not much different and plus the predator is cheaper by 50 minerals and 50 gas. It's a cheap, quick, anti AA. It can go to a hotspot much quicker than marines. It's an air unit not a ground unit. It's practically comapring apples to oranges.

- High cost? A predator is 100 minerals, 50 gas... barely expensive. It's cheap for a fighter. A viking I would assume is more expensive (I'm thinking 150 minerals, 100 gas)...  I know it's speculation but it's definetly more expensive than the predator.

- I really doubt that one single predator would stop a lot of shots because frankly, it's a cheap unit and having it stop most shots would imba. That's why you build more than 1... let's say 6... then it would become more effective and of course that's the case like all units. The predator isn't suppose to be an all-in-wonder. It's a freakin basic unit.

In all, I really do believe it is necessary to the Terran arsenal because they need a basic air unit that is anti-air. If we don't have it, then what unit can we use? And please don't say battlecruiser. And what is terran without an air unit that "dogfights" in the air?

And you are thinking Viking? I would have to disagree. It's made in the factory first of all and second its both a versatile ground/air unit. It's not quick and I might be assuming this but prolly has a weaker air attack than the predator, but we will see! I could be wrong but the way the unit works, I doubt it since it is not a dedicated anti air.

[Shadowdragon]

Don't worry, I wasn't even thinking the battlecruiser or the viking. To be honest, as a terran player I rarely controlled the air. But I never needed to. A few wraiths were quite sufficient for any defense I needed. But as you said, closer to six predators would be a minimum amount to take on any attacking fleets (assuming a fleet attacks in the first place). And that is where the expense comes. I don't recall saying they were individually high cost (early units aren’t). I didn't know how much it would cost. But, if it does cost 100 minerals and 50 gas, than it would take 600 minerals and 300 gas for a group of weak units that could only defend the base from an aerial attack. That's big money and a lot of time for a beginning game defense.

To be blunt, if the enemy decides to attack with ground units, the player would be very much at the end of his or her rope. And as you said indirectly, the predator is a starport unit. That means I need an entirely different structure to build them, adding more expense and time. Therefore, the cobra and marines, not the viking, or the battlecruiser, or some predators, would probably be the preferred method of fending off early air attacks. They can be used as both sword and shield, raiding the enemy or defending a base. Missiles, again, can defend a base long enough for the marines and cobras to arrive. And I like that much more than a bunch of idle air defenses, at the mercy of a few Phoenix's overload.

Yes, they do have their place as an escort unit. And having a few around the base late game may prove quite useful. But at the beginning of the game, there are better, cheaper, and most importantly, quicker options. Bet on an air assault if you wish. Hell, if you see me out there and stomp me into the ground when we play a game, feel free to say “I told you so”. In the mean time, I’ll stick to my humble factory toys.

P.S.
By the way, I wouldn't send either marines or predators against a colossus. By that point, I WOULD be using battlecruisers or massed Vikings (at the very least, siege tanks), or I would have already lost the game.

[FlyingTiger]

oh i didn't say 6 was the minimum. i just gave an example. If you read Neon-10's posting on Blizzcon, he took down a mothership with 3 predators (albeit the guy with the mothership was a bit dumb) but still it is an economical alternative.

You also still need to build those structures regardless. Air units no matter what race is up in the tech tree. Cobra does not attack air units... <--- oh nvm Burkid proved me wrong

I still would use predators cause they are quick and terrain doesn't matter unlike the marines that have to deal with it.

PS. Colossus doesnt attack air units. Predators are the perfect counter. Marines get owned. Battlecruisers are soo expensive and massed vikings? Waaay too expensive. You need just a few predators and you are good to go!

[burkid]

actually, cobras can attack air. that was revealed a while ago.

i think every combat air unit is perfect for killing colossi lol.

i wonder if their is a 'guard' command, because if there is, id get 7-8 predators in intercept form and have them guard my BCs/Vikings, then with nomads defensive matrix field and repair, it would be very difficult for that fleet to go down.

[Shadowdragon]

A guard command would greatly improve their use. I hope that does get added.

[FlyingTiger]

eh we still don't really know the attack values of either the cobra or the predator. But I do know is that if you are going against let's say a Banshee, Colossus, Mothership, or even a Carrier (we don't know yet about the air shields), I'd go for the Predator in an instant because frankly these units destroy ground units like they are nothing.

[Shadowdragon]

If you see any of those units in the early game, consider yourself @^#$!* and your opponent a cheater...

In the later game, maybe. We'll have to see how it stacks against the viking.

[DKutrovsky]

How does the predator attack ? Like a Wraith's ground lazer only vs air?

And i have a feeling that the predator might be hunting projectiles more than attacking air or just as much. It switches from defense to offense which is cool in my book. Im just wondering if its going to do anything with ground based projectiles, or maybe just GTA and not GTG

[Eye_Carumba]

Yes, I think it's attack formation is only so it's not yet another terran air unit that doesn't attack air. Imagine relying on BCs or vikings for air-air? In the end, I think we'll have that, but at least allow the predator to defend itself in case it needs! lol An only defensive air-unit would make it underused and vulnerable. That's what I think.

[taz]

Here's a better pic for the predater in normal form (top right corner)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sc2armory/1025864438/in/set-72157601213606904/
Edit:- the link should now :)

[burkid]

i cant see the picture.

[Remy]

... what makes the Vikings anti-air not redunent?


Because Vikes have a presumably wider range of application, where as any dedicated pure AA is more specialized. When you can use something that is generally good to also take care of air moderately well, that makes the more specialized without another use redundant. It is not the other way around.


... They are closer to valkyries than the Predator is, in that their ant-air was built for the same purpose.


You are wrong. Valkyrie(along with corsair and devourer, the BW added air superiority support units) are by design, there to counter swarms of tactical air which is wraith, scout, and muta. At the same time, valks and corsairs were weak against capital ships by design mainly because of weak individual hits vs high capital ship armor. Tactical air units are more suited to take down capital ships because not only do they have very decent air attacks anyway, they come in packages of stronger single hits, just without splash.

Viking air form is tactical air. Not only that Blizzard describes them as good vs capital ships, this confirms their similarity with wraith, at least in their role in the Air Balance Model. Valks on the other hand were, like I said, the complete opposite in that they were weak against capital ships by design. I don't think you have a clear understanding of the roles of SC1 air units.


We havn't even seen it do anything yet, but yet you say its gonna turn out how valkyrive and wraith was in Starcraft 1.


I'm not psychic, I am merely suggesting the possibility because we have seen it happen before. Note that the topic title is in the form of a question. "Terran Predator, is it even necessary?" not "Terran Predator, that crap ain't even necessary!!!"

@ Eye_Carumba, you mentioned valk usage against carriers, you are mistaken. Not only were valks not designed to go against carriers, they were just bad investment. The fact is, unless against lower skilled opponents, you simply can not afford to invest heavily into valks as Terran, not that you really ever need to if you know how to use the rest of your units.

But we're talking about carriers, they are jokes 99% of the time. If you can micro hydras to take out carriers without even darkswarming, you won't have any trouble as Terran. There is no reason to get valks when you would already have EMP, marines, and goliaths. Even against carriers using terrain to out-range your ground, cloaked wraiths would still be the better option in that case.

And arbiters, you really don't see them too much on non-money maps. But when you do see them, doing almost non-existent valkyrie splash to the cloaked carriers would be the least of your concern. Armor is the bane of valkyrie and corsair splash damage. Valks only do 6 damage per rocket, the splash damage isn't 100%, the carrier starts with 4 armor without upgrades, you do the math.

And I'm sorry that people you play against use valks, but most people good enough do not. Unless on maps where ground movement is heavily restricted, such as island maps.

@ FlyingTiger, for your vs colossus example, I would just use the Vikes that I already have actually. Why would you get something that's AA only when you can just use what you have around that applies to everything else? Terran never was, and now more than ever definite is not, lacking in the department of general anti-air firepower.

However, based on the stats of Predator you provided(I had no idea before I read what you had btw, thanks), I think Predators will be better than Valkyries, in what they mean to Terran players. One of the main downfalls of the SC1 valkyrie was their cost. Not just the cost in resources, but the cost in food. 3 supply for something that was AA ONLY and nothing else was absurd, especially for Terran specifically. Since the Preds already have reduced supply and cost, that's already a better start than Valks. And with the projectile intercepting ability, their role could be very unique, beyond the standard dedicated AA firepower. Things are looking up... but not for the Nomad unit model...