What does the colosuss replace?

[Gold]

Im going to assume the colouss replaces something.
it seems that most of the new units might replace an existing unit of somekind, (that units abilitys get split up it seems between the nerwer units)
so what about the colosus?

I cant really think of anything.
except maybe the carrier.

[PeterPetreli]

The colossus is a completely new unit I think. Maybe it replaces the reaver? It looks like a great support unit!

Imagine a whole army of colossus... somehow though, it seems less scary than an army of carriers.

[Gold]

well a carrier can take out loads of small units all at once
so thats why i said carrier
but thinking about it,
the immortals are sorta like heavy dragoons
the stalkers are like lighter faster dragoons
so maybe the colosus replace dark templar?
all just conjecture though

[PeterPetreli]

No, dark templar attack style doesn't match. Like you said, carriers have the most similar attack to the colossus I think.

Too bad that they can be attacked by both ground AND air units. This makes them a lot more vulnerable. And they look especially weak against banelings. I can see it now, whole army of colossi run over by some banelings and poof, they're gone...

[Gold]

i think every ground unit is weak to banelings, but i dont think there that strong individually, there were tones in that demo.

i think that the colosus will replace the carrier and the reaver, and there will be some cool new unit(s) that will come in with new abilities.

[gr3ykn1ght]

hey hey HEY! why are you guys talking about replacing? i want them to ADD in!

i don't think colosseus can replace anything, if not, maybe the reavers, cos their attacks kinda of 'home' in on the target.

[Gold]

il jsut clear something up.
the reason i said dark templar and reavers is becuase both those units are used to go into a base and kill the scvs,probes and things like that,
and to me the colosus seems the perfect unit to do that.
i can imagine it walking up the cliffs and wiping out all the drones and then walking away again.

[PeterPetreli]

They do look very fast. They can outrun banelings! I think that you won't be able to build these things till late game, like carriers.

[TheDarkTemplar]

I think they'll replace Reavers to be honest. And the whole point of this being a new game is new things, if they kept all the old units this would just be an expansion pack!

Point: if the Colossus can be attacked by both ground and air units (and by missile turrets) does this mean it can attack air units? Because with the height of it, you would think it could.

[Gold]

maybe, if they can put the guns up that high.

I think they will keep the idea of you having to build ammo (something both reavers and carriers have in comon)
so it must go in a new unit.

[TheDarkTemplar]

I don't think the Colossus will have to build ammo, seeing as it's a laser. Maybe the Reavers won't be gone, but I have no doubt the Carriers are gone purely because the Protoss have gained three new flying units.

[Gold]

I don't think the Colossus will have to build ammo, seeing as it's a laser. Maybe the Reavers won't be gone, but I have no doubt the Carriers are gone purely because the Protoss have gained three new flying units.


what was the other old flying unit called? was it the scout.
well what ever its name is, i think the pheonix replaces it, and they have just given it an ability, they said there were going to do alot of facelifting. Did the protoss have a seige unit before?, i cant really remeber

[mc2]

The reaver was the Protoss's ground siege unit, the Carrier was the air siege unit.

Though I'm almost certain that the carrier will be replaced by a new unit, the mothership + other air units could make up for it

[TheDarkTemplar]

I didn't really see them as siege units persé. I saw them as "I'm going to completely annihilate you. Mwahahahaha!" type of units. :D

[reject_666_6]

I think that Reavers are gone in Starcraft 2, replaced by the Colossus and who-knows-what else. Dark Templars I think must stay, because most of the surviving Protoss population is of DT origin, so it would be stupid and racist if the Stalker is the only DT unit we get. And we can still hope for Carriers, right?

[TheDarkTemplar]

I read an article that said that Blizzard are having the same number of units as in StarCraft 1, so that means for every unit in, there's a unit out :'(

[Gold]

yeah, there facelifting loads of units, so new model, new name, and sometimes they seem to be sending the skills to other units, its gonna change the stratagies and methods from sc1 should be good imp

[KoN17]

Well, if collosals can walk over any type of terrain on ther map, and they have that type of same firepower as carriers do with interceptors vs ground units, then my guess is they will repace carriers :'( :'(

[Khalarius]

i think the reavers are gone :(

[reject_666_6]

But the decicive thing here is: will the Mothership be counted as a whole new unit? I mean, you can only make one at a time, and it's expensive, and can be killed quickly with a few Yamatos, and it's probably late-tier. It should be like a Terran Nuke and not count as a whole new unit.

[Khalarius]

reject, I smell a Carrier

[reject_666_6]

:) You thinkin' what I'm thinkin'?

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

I read an article that said that Blizzard are having the same number of units as in StarCraft 1, so that means for every unit in, there's a unit out :'(



hey hey HEY! why are you guys talking about replacing? i want them to ADD in!

i don't think colosseus can replace anything, if not, maybe the reavers, cos their attacks kinda of 'home' in on the target.


I don't like it either... but I think they said somewhere in an interview that they will have as many units in SC2 as in SC1, so for each new unit that's add in, another one gets taken out... I'm pretty sure.. (EDIT: ya, see quoted post at the top)

They said it's to make the developers, who have also given their hearts to some of these units, work harder to make each unit be really useful so they don't end up with a lot of units that don't fit in so great with the general feel and strategy of the new game, and will thus end up with a better game...

I think it sucks though... let them make a good game with new units AS WELL as ALL the old units! =P So they'll have to spend some longer on the balancing (though that'd be aweful in itself), it's not as important as the survival of the units! To me anyway.

[10-Neon]

It's be nice if you gave us a link to that article. Maintain the same number of units is not an unreasonable claim, but I do like to see sources when people state things as fact.

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

It's be nice if you gave us a link to that article. Maintain the same number of units is not an unreasonable claim, but I do like to see sources when people state things as fact.


Yea yea yea... here it is =) http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/starcraft-2/790195p2.html

"One of the most surprising revelations in the team's presentation was that StarCraft II will have the same number of units as the original game. That means that for every new unit added to a sides' army, one had to come out. Apparently the team did this for both gameplay and design reasons. Limiting the number of units forced the team to focus on exactly what each unit was expected to do and why it should be there. There were some iconic units like the Zealots, Marines and Zerglings that no one could imagine the game without, but there were other calls that were apparently quite painful to make. Pardo seems to feel that forcing the team to make these painful choices will result in a better game by avoiding extraneous units that never get used."

^ And there's the quote ... it's page two of the article so if you want to read it entirely go a page back first.

[TheDarkTemplar]

But the decicive thing here is: will the Mothership be counted as a whole new unit? I mean, you can only make one at a time, and it's expensive, and can be killed quickly with a few Yamatos, and it's probably late-tier. It should be like a Terran Nuke and not count as a whole new unit.


I'm pretty sure it's counted as a whole new unit and, as painful as it will be, that means bye bye Carriers!

[reject_666_6]

I smell angry letters to Blizz for this! >:(

Either that or them being included in the Expansion for some reason. :o

[Inside Sin]

Do you think the collosus can attack air??

Either i can't remember or it didn't show in the 'DEMO'.

[Gold]

no probably not, and in the demo the guy says that colosussus are weak to air, then it gets blown up by a hundred mutalisks

[Inside Sin]

heh, yeah. They should be able to attack air though, just SUPER weak, like a marine slowly.

[coalescence]

Well if it can GET attacked by both air and attacks units, then it should be able to counter! It's just not fair the poor guy...


The mighty protoss scientists thought of a way not to be overpowerfull, so they developed the collosus.

[l2k]

If you watch the gameplay (10:05 - 10:12), the colossus seems unable to attack the mutalisks. And towards the end (before the nukes were launched), I can't recall if the colossus has attacked any air units... So i assume it can't attack air units.

[TheDarkTemplar]

Considering it's height, that kinda sucks, but I assume Immortals and Stalkers can attack air?

[reject_666_6]

^ That's a good question. I'm not sure whether Stalkers actually attack air, but I sure hope so.

[Seth_Almighty]

The Colossus has slow moving lasers, so it kind of makes sense for it to not be able to fire at air (they are also pointed <0 degree angle as well), but it would be nice if they had small turrets or something so they could lightly damage air as to not be completely vulnerable. I mean they definitly have enough room on them to add some little guns.

Also stalkers CAN attack air as you can see in the Demo. I believe it is around 18:20 or so and the botttom stalker is shooting the bottom BC. (unless I am mistaken which I highly doubt)

[coalescence]

The Colossus has slow moving lasers, so it kind of makes sense for it to not be able to fire at air (they are also pointed <0 degree angle as well), but it would be nice if they had small turrets or something so they could lightly damage air as to not be completely vulnerable. I mean they definitly have enough room on them to add some little guns.

Also stalkers CAN attack air as you can see in the Demo. I believe it is around 18:20 or so and the botttom stalker is shooting the bottom BC. (unless I am mistaken which I highly doubt)


Yes, thats very true. Flying units aren't fast in the game but normally they would be fast. It's normal logic put into game logic (while its actually not logical in the game :D)

[Remy]

So far the colossus and the immortal do not appear to be able to attack air. There is also no evidence of reapers being able to attack air, I believe reapers will have ground attack only to further distinguish them from marines.

Phoenix and stalker can attack both air and ground. If u look at the UI when a stalker is selected, where unit upgrades(attack, armor, shield) are shown, the stalker actually shows two weapons. Presumably one for air attack and one for ground.

And while I'm on this subject, the Mothership can attack multiple targets simultaneously. Although I'm sure most people if not all probably have noticed by now.

[reject_666_6]

If they do not make the Colossus attack air, I'm sure they'll give it more life or something to offset this. We just have to wait and see the miraculous balancing Blizz'll pull off.

[Inside Sin]

Lol. Yeah nice ideas guys, i guess if they have that thing. They would not be able to maneuver it around to face up. :)

[coalescence]

If they do not make the Colossus attack air, I'm sure they'll give it more life or something to offset this. We just have to wait and see the miraculous balancing Blizz'll pull off.


Don't you think they already have enough? :P In the footage they have like 325 Shields and 400 Hitpoints

[zeratul11]

nah, the collusus did not replace the reaver. if you watch the artwork of SC2 from blizzard u will see the artwork of collusus together with reavers. below the collossus are the reavers. check it out clearly. ive seen the reavers, they will be back ;D

[NotDeadYet]

No, the Mothership cannot replace the Carrier, because Blizzard has said that the Terrans and Zerg will not get a mothership-like unit (Though, of course, they will get something for balancing purposes). This means that they will NOT lose old units in exchange for their super-ability. So, if the Protoss lose a unit in exchange for the Mothership, they have one less unit than the other races.

zeratul11 - Just because something is shown in artwork does not mean it will be in the game.

I personally think there is a good chance of the Colossus replacing the Reaver. They both are big, destructive, don't have an air attack, and are good against swarms of weak units. I bet the Colossus is also good against buildings (Like the reaver), but the demo only showed Colossi attack zerglings.

[Gold]

No, the Mothership cannot replace the Carrier, because Blizzard has said that the Terrans and Zerg will not get a mothership-like unit (Though, of course, they will get something for balancing purposes). This means that they will NOT lose old units in exchange for their super-ability. So, if the Protoss lose a unit in exchange for the Mothership, they have one less unit than the other races.

zeratul11 - Just because something is shown in artwork does not mean it will be in the game.

I personally think there is a good chance of the Colossus replacing the Reaver. They both are big, destructive, don't have an air attack, and are good against swarms of weak units. I bet the Colossus is also good against buildings (Like the reaver), but the demo didn't only showed Colossi attack zerglings.


Actually i think the colosus is moderate against buildings, personallly i believe the warpray replaces the carriers role as a flyier, and replaces the reavers role as seige, the colosus also replaces the reavers ability to kill multiple units, and the carriers ability to attack at long range.

o and here is zereatul11's picture

[reject_666_6]

Yes, sadly they have split up the Carrier's characteristics and distributed them among most of the new units, so that a good combination of units is supposed to be as strong as a fleet of Carriers... We'll miss you!!! :'(

:bigcry:

[Gold]

it all makes sence logically, but blizzard might not be thinking that way.
we shall see when we get the full unit set.

[TheDarkTemplar]

I'm pretty sure they are thinking that way. Recall, in a way, has gone to Phase Prisms. That's just one example.

[Gold]

i cant wait until they release the zerg set, but i dont think that will be any time soon
the game was in such a demo state, it was "just" playable.
The video was pre recorded, and then the announcer reads his script over it and the music plays and the talking heads are on seperate tracks.
notice how all the portaraits are the zealot portrait, the probe, or the mothership
Or how in the final fight the mothership dosnt do a single thing.
infact they must have just written the script for it, selected the units, and then fleshed them out so its presentable, it still looks awsome though

[GuiMontag]

ye i agree that the demo was 'just' playable, I wouldnt be surprised if half the stuff we saw ends up changing.
In a video interview blizzard said that they started by putting all the units from starcraft on their new engine and then adding new units and taking SOME out, blizzard has never said that for every new unit one will be replaced and i expect that we will see atleast 1 additional air and ground unit for each race

[Whatsifsowhatsit]

ye i agree that the demo was 'just' playable, I wouldnt be surprised if half the stuff we saw ends up changing.
In a video interview blizzard said that they started by putting all the units from starcraft on their new engine and then adding new units and taking SOME out, blizzard has never said that for every new unit one will be replaced and i expect that we will see atleast 1 additional air and ground unit for each race


They did say there would be the same amount of unit types for each race...

[CarriersMustReturn]

NO, NO, NO!!!!!!

CARRIERS. MUST. FREAKING. RETURN. :upset: :upset:

[Pix]

I think that's why Blizzard removed the Carrier and added the Mothership - to provide a different late game alternative than massed Carriers, and to get rid of their all-rounded power. Instead of simply smashing the enemy to peices like before, the Protoss now have to use some skill - just like the Zerg and Terrans had to in Starcraft Origional and Expansion.
Meh, 'tis just my opinion - and it's subject to change. My perspective, anyway =)
~Pix~

[GuiMontag]

ye i agree that the demo was 'just' playable, I wouldnt be surprised if half the stuff we saw ends up changing.
In a video interview blizzard said that they started by putting all the units from starcraft on their new engine and then adding new units and taking SOME out, blizzard has never said that for every new unit one will be replaced and i expect that we will see atleast 1 additional air and ground unit for each race


They did say there would be the same amount of unit types for each race...


they actually said there would be roughly the same amount as in the original

[Ych9]

Does anyone think that the Collossus is kind of like the Archons?
Think about it, their attack seems soo similar to the Archons. Only difference is that Archons can hit air units, while the Collossus has a range attack. And I'm not sure if the Collossus is going to be effective vs buildings either. If they aren't, I expect the Reavers to make a full comeback.

[10-Neon]

Blizzard would have a hard time explaining why, even though the player can build High Templar, they can no longer merge them into an Archon.

[reject_666_6]

Well the Colossus seems to use continuous lasers kinda link Warp Rays do, so it'll probably have at least SOME power vs buildings.

[Gold]

you see in the art work trailer, the colosuss and the immortals go up a cliff to a terran position
and colosus start attacking the missle turrets, personaly i think there moderate vs buildings, whislt the warp ray is super excelant.

[overmind]

as weve seen the Protoss are super powerfull i think that balancing is done with this and keeps it at a support unit rather than a destroy-your-whole-base unit

[Meloku]

The colossus cannot attack air, but since it is so tall, it can be shot by air attacks, such as missile turrets.

As far as the mothership attack is concerned, its damage is spread out to all nearby targets, kinda like battleships from warcraft 3.

[T-man]

<snip>
And while I'm on this subject, the Mothership can attack multiple targets simultaneously. Although I'm sure most people if not all probably have noticed by now.

This is a great feature, but it will be very interesting to see how it is implemented control wise. I have often wondered why huge ships, such as BCs and Carriers (which have even more justification to be able to multi-target) were so rigidly limited to one target. I am sure that some Terran engineer or another would have thought of mounting more than that one single laser, I mean, there are no modern ships of that mass with a single gun. Especially a single fixed gun. The technology should be more advanced by then, and it was refreshing to see a multi-targetable ship. If we extrapolate the awesome power of the WCIII editor and its ability to create and modify attacks to SC2, it gives map makers the ability to give multi-target to other massive stations of war.

[coalescence]

I bet they all actually can, but it would be unbalanced, they would;

1: be every overpowered and expensive
2: have much weak attacks, and nobody needs a unit who spreads much weaks attack. Force fire ftw ;D

[Inside Sin]

Well, heres a few more things i found out about the collosus whilst looking at some screenshots in www.starcraft2.com...

Evidence: http://www.starcraft2.com/screenshot.xml?10

Attackable as air?
Well, in the screenshot it shows the collosus getting attacked by Turrets, is this just a little add on to the technology of starcraft? I have seen this and thought, maybe they get attacked by things that can only attack air and are actually flying, this explains alot on my other topic about the collosus' attacking air. It looks like colossus gets countered by air, :D Especially ones that can do high damage to air units, they might be able to wipe the collosus out easy.

THIS IS JUST IDEAS

[Inside Sin]

Yeah, lol they should be only good against marines and zerglings and sorta zealots.

[T-man]

That is very weird. Excellent observation, however. I checked around a bit to look for any other possible targets those Turrets were shooting at, and couldn't find any. Perhaps this is also part of the "nothing is final" aspect, and they are testing heights and Turret attacks.

[ShoGun]

i think every ground unit is weak to banelings, but i dont think there that strong individually, there were tones in that demo.


The banelings probably will have weak hp, making them vunerable against groups of ranged attackers, especially small ones like marines.

[sordid]

Well, I'm pretty sure those Banelings in the demo vid could only attack ground, which would mean the Colossus is vulnerable to air AND ground attacks. Seems like a major weakness to me, maybe they will be really really good in every other way though...

[mc2]

The collosus is similar to archon as pointed out by Ych9. The Archon actually had a range of 3 matrix :)

It's even weirder that it is so tall and yet it cannot attack air...

[zeratul11]

i think collusus are tougher on ground units attacking it than air units. those are banelings! they deal high damage ofcourse its a suicidal attack and there were plenty of them.

[Inside Sin]

Lol?
Banelings aren't only ones who can kill them.

[gr3ykn1ght]

well, it's interesting... if colloseuses can only hit ground, then they can't really be able to replace anything well, ain't it? blizzard's just providing the protoss with a unit which can easily be destroyed as both an air and ground unit, which is particularly effective as a base defense attacker due to it's range and a ranged support unit. i don't think it'll be fair to actually totally replace any of the protoss units with it.

[gr3ykn1ght]

um guys, there's already a colloseus thread, although it talks about what the colloseus replaces. and yeah, i kinda noticed the colloseus gets damaged by both air and ground units... anyway, colloseus should just be for ranged support and for destruction of building, i think. since it's so easily destroyed, yet has a effective ranged attack.

[Gold]

The collosus is similar to archon as pointed out by Ych9. The Archon actually had a range of 3 matrix :)

It's even weirder that it is so tall and yet it cannot attack air...


im gonna assume that 3 matrixes is like splash damage, if it is then i ahve to disagree it dosnt seem that the colosus does any damage like that, it just attacks at range with a low powered attack, but it never seems to cooldown

well let me clarify a bit more, maybe the attack isnt low powered, but it will probably do more damage to the armour types that zerglings and other small units have. but i dont see how this is simillar to the archon and if it is, in only the slightest way.

[Meloku]

The reason it is vulnerable to air attack is because it can essentially move like an air unit (over cliffs, across gaps.)

of course it cant go in space, but blizzard gave them an interesting advantage, yet disadvantage. Looks like we're playing starcraft alright.

[Inside Sin]

hehehe yeah. Starcraft continues to amaze. Guys, this probally wasn't mentioned in other threads, and i personally hate a thread that says something about a SC2 unit REPLACING a sc1 unit. Just not into my liking.

I also posted a thread about them not attacking air.

[Inside Sin]

I think the collosus closest reseblence is reaver, cause they can take down lots of small units and also do damage to buildings. BUT don't keep trying to think they replace units from starcraft 1

[Gold]

i nkow maybe you dont agree,
but that is more or less what there doing, if you could elaborate more on why you dont like people saying replace, then i would understand better

[Inside Sin]

Well, they said they were creating a new game with 3D and a new enviroment, but the story and place doesn't really change, so all units are diffrent in MANY ways, even the probe.

They do not replace each other, becuas ethey are thinking of a new fighting tactics and new skills to use.

[Gold]

becuase they said they will keep the same amount of units from starcraft1, some will get a facelift, others wont be returning, i dont actually have that as a qoute on me, so it is paraphrased slightly.

i can see what you mean, none of this actually means any units are being replaced, they jsut may not be returning.

when you look at the roles of these new units, and you count how many spaces are left in the army then you start to see a pattern.

this process makes the game entirely new, with new stratagies and tactices and so forth, but it seems to be built off how the first game ran.

all of this is jsut here say and conjecture, but more than likely.

[Inside Sin]

True, kk. I guess your right.

But still, it pisses me off a bit when people assume things ARE replacing something or ARE definatly coming back. When we havent even seen any proof basically.

[Fenix]

Well, we know the Dragoons are gone. That's basically it, for for sure removed units.....Yes, the "for for" is grammatically correct.

[Inside Sin]

You don't fully know that for sure. They could be in the Story line. Or they might change the units in the game :)

Everything could be changed, so nothing is confirmed :D

[Fenix]

Gone as in trainable units. I'm completely positive that you'll get Dragoon heroes through-out the course of the campaign, and I would not be surprised in the least if it was in the Map-Edit system. And if it isn't, that'll be the first mod.

[Remy]

The collosus is similar to archon as pointed out by Ych9. The Archon actually had a range of 3 matrix :)


Archon's have a range of 2, just like firebats. I'm pretty sure the only unit with an attack range of 3 is the muta, only if I remember correctly.

[[LightMare]]

naah. colossus is a completely new unit. like the mothership and Soul hunter