Some questions to those who played the Protoss, Re: Immortals

[Ryno]

What were they like? Dragoonish?

I wonder because in the videos it seems like it doesnt take much to activate that hardened shield they have. How much does that shield suppress damage? What kind of damage do the immortals do? Costly and/or timely to warp in?

Im just curious because they seem super strong in all the videos so I was wondering what everyone else who actually played with them thought.

Thanks in advance :)

[Lemmy]

I didnt play w them but I know they turn all damage income to 10 (unless is less than 10, in which case it does nothing). So its useless agains marines, lings, zealots and stuff like that.

[Joneagle_X]

Wow... so the question has been answered. The hardened shield works on just about EVERYTHING except for Infantry. That's pretty insane.... 10 damage per hit? Pssh I don't know if that's really fair. That way if their HP is 100, it'll take 10 tank hits to kill one? That's almost a full minute....

[burkid]

which is why they are the counter for tanks.
their shield/health is 100/240, but i dont know if thats changed, it was a while ago that i got those numbers.

[Ryno]

wow...i thought they looked a little too strong...

[Joneagle_X]

Yes, but then even units that are weaker than the tank would kinda stink against the Immortals. Goliaths (if they're back... not sure) and the Banshees, etc... Nothing would do more than 10 dmg. So if they have 100 hp, it would take 10 hits from any of these units. That is potentially a long period of time.

And if those numbers you posted are correct, that is INSANE. Those things will NEVER DIE!!! If you have 5 Banshees unleashing on just one, it'll still take 5 attacks from each unit just to bring its shields down, not even counting hp. Supposing the Banshee fires once every two secondsish as they did in the new Terran demo, that's about 10 seconds PER IMMORTAL, given that splash damage still has an effect. I don't see that being a permanent feature...

[burkid]

goliaths are replaced by vikings.

which is why they are a damage tank. they just absorb damage.

and anyways, they have really short range and cant hit air, so even if they can take a bunch of hits, it doesnt mean they are just going to wade through bases.

[Joneagle_X]

True, I'm just saying that's a lot of damage. I guess it would be a really effective counter to the Seige Tank. But if you think about it, that was really the backbone of the Terran force in SC1. You couldn't really play a serious game without them even if you went M&M.

Thanks for the reminder on the Vikings replacing Goliaths.

[Ryno]

Whats the Immortals attack damage?

[Joneagle_X]

Hopefully insanely weak to counter the fact that they NEVER DIE! ;)

[burkid]

hopefully strong considering they have terrible range, cant hit air, move slow, and attack slow.

[Tym29]

I have to say I didn't look at any of the numbers while I was playing but I played about 20 hours of Protoss that weekend ( i didn't care for the terrans much) so I got a pretty good feel for the race and how it functioned at least in the Blizzcon build.  The Immortals were not that strong. I think it took 3-4 bits from a tank to take one out, but not 10.  The sad thing was the amount of cool down time for their cannons. I usually opted for the Stalkers in the end. They cost less and the blink capability was just amazingly useful on the maps they gave us.

[SmirkySmirker]

I really don't like the concept of the Immortals. I say give them a shield you activate with micro which does the same thing but lasts only a few seconds giving you time to get in there and start to deal damage without getting those first tank shots done, since the units have such short range.

Either that, or GIVE US BACK OUR PSI BALLS. Goons please.

[Ych9]

That's wierd Tym29.
Because I remembered I read somewhere where this guy interviewed Dustin Browder at BlizzCon and what Dustin Browder said was that there are many complaints that Immortals are overpowered as of now. Maybe I remembered wrong or there could be some imbalance uses for these Immortal units.

[GuiMontag]

had you upgraded the immortals shields tym?

[Tym29]

Let me check with the other guys that went, but thats what they were like for me.

[Ryno]

If they cant attack air then thats good. Helps bring them down a peg or too.

Goons FTW!

[FlyingTiger]

which is why they are the counter for tanks.
their shield/health is 100/240, but i dont know if thats changed, it was a while ago that i got those numbers.


240 hp??? daaaaamn that's a lot. Are you sure? Might as well go en masse with these. I was thinking more along the lines of 100 shield 100 hp...

[burkid]

that was the stats from the original video. so it probably changed.
even if it did have that much health, you cant forget slow move speed, slow attack, very short attack range, and cant attack air.

[brc9210]

According to Meloku it can attack air.

[Joneagle_X]

I don't think anyone really knows the true use of the Immortals yet, even with some limited playing time.

I'm glad for your insight tym, makes me feel a little bit better.

Also, I'm pretty glad that they have such a short range because it does balance out their abilities a little better. They'll be good shock absorbers for rushing tanks. I am a little worried about the fact that they definitely don't fill the shoes of the Dragoons. Immortals had better be amazing to be "the more efficient way the Protoss have found of using their wounded heroes."

[ArchLimit]

Yea, I'm actually liking the Immortals pretty good right about now. I like how their shields work and it forces the noobier players to step it up from using almighty units 'n such. But at the same time, I think you can have quite a bit of units that can topple the Immortal shield like zerglings, or even the Interceptors from the Carriers since each individually only did about 8 damage in the original SC.

I hope they can keep these units w/o them being too imbalanced.

[DontHate]

yes i'm liking them too now. they'd be a great counter for banelings... lol. each one only doing 10 damage!! that's like wasting all those banelings.

[Lemmy]

I think the HP doesnt matter at all, since the damage is absorved my the 100 hp shield, not the unit itself. So 10 tank hits should take out the shield. 2 barrages from 5 tanks take out an immortal's shiled. not THAT tough if you take out the shield with emp or marines.

[Joneagle_X]

No, it is good that it is only a truly effective counter for the tanks, but I'm still worried about it reducing all attacks above 10....

[10-Neon]

There is no problem with that damage reduction. The reason Marines are so effective agianst them is that, while they're only doign 7 or so damage per hit, they're firing at like 6x the rate of a siege tank, meaning they're still getting a lot of damage in. Then you have the fact that Marines are used en masse, with stim, with Medics, and you'll see that your Immortals are having a very, very bad day. When I used Immortals, I used them almost exclusively for absorbing tank hits. Forget actually attacking with them; they're really expensive units, so you can never make huge amounts of them, just keep a few at the head of your attack group to act as a meat shield for incoming blasts. As Tym said, Stalkers were much more useful in general combat.

I don't actually remember being able to target air with Immortals. In fact, I think I specifically remember being shocked that they couldn't. I may be mistaken, however.

[Lemmy]

Il stick to the goold old zealot drop.

[Sagathox]

it´s perfect as a meat shield, maybe they should give them some special ability, not a super attack because that surely would make them imba, but as some people (including 10-Neon and Tym29) that went to the blizzcon and used this units said, they just dont make up they high cost just for being meat shield, stalkers and lesser units are used more often because immortals are almost useless for attack

[burkid]

their 'special ability' is their uber shields.

[Tym29]

Well we were also limited to 20 minute games so there were limited Uber-wepons to activate the uber- shields of the immortals. Maybe later in the game they might be more useful with more big gun around. Maybe... People were building Motherships and Battle Cruisers but there were a lot of marines and zelots running about still. They should probably have an air attack if they are ever going to be used. Like a super dragoon. Blink makes the Stalker much better than the Immortal dispite the HP difference. The Immortal will need something more than its sometimes effective shield to even the playing field.

[DontHate]

i really hope that the immortal doesn't turn into the scout.

[10-Neon]

I don't see that happening. Its shields are way too useful for it to be pushed into an unused role, I just don't think its role will be more like the Ultralisk's(taking damage) than the Zergling's(dealing damage). For example, you would be absolutely insane to go after several Siege Tanks with any reasonable number of Stalkers. You wouldn't even be able to get within Blink range without taking lots of damage, perhaps losing a few units, but replace a few of them with Immortals (with hardened shields) and send them in first, and suddenly the battle's yours.

Also, it isn't just the "big guns" that you're being protected from, more middle-of-the-line weapons like Phase Cannons do (if I remember correctly) around 20 damage, meaning Immortals, with hardened shields taking the damage they take down to 10, receive only 50% of the pain that is meant for them. It makes them great for plunging into otherwise nasty clusters of Cannons without having to tech to the Colossus.

[Ych9]

Something I have been wondering for awhile.
Is the Colossus effective against buildings or units with a lot of HP?

[brc9210]

I dont think so. If that was the cse it would have been blasting the baneling while it ran away from them.

[Tym29]

Just like units in Sc1 they can target and attack units while moving toward them but not while retreating form them.

[DontHate]

huh? what unit could do that? attack at the same time while moving.
besides the carrier.

[JBL]

huh? what unit could do that? attack at the same time while moving.
besides the carrier.


He's refering to the ability of targeting and "charging" their attack while moving (chasing) and then stop for a second to "launch" the attack and then continue to walk...

think of marines or goons chasing an unit..

of course you can while retreating.. but you need to use the attack command.. which makes you stop to target and "charge" the attack because the units are coming at you...

[Joneagle_X]

I definitely think it would be possible to micro even the collosus like people did the Dragoon in SC1. Walk a bit, hit hold, then walk for the cooldown period, fire, walk, fire, walk, fire. It was pretty insane to see people do that.

[JDMFanatic]

I heard in another thread by Tym that Immortals can in fact hit air.
Is this true?

[SD-Count]

@Joneagle
It's not as practical because the colosus are much much slower, they are much much bigger, and their fire rate longer. The whole point of microing dragoons was to move and attack and lure, move attack lure, with colosus its more attack or run. If you run in mid attack, you may as well not have attacked and ran because of their slow pace. Of course it could work for terrain, but once again, it would be smarter to just lure with another unit and keep your colossus on high ground.

[coreyb]

I sure hope that immortal's hit air! and iff You go to the strcraft 2 site and look at the immortal and when it move's in the little moving picture it has it aiming in the air! :D and it should and probebly would because it sure doe's look like a unit that would attack air , PEACE ( I LOVE IMMORAL'S! ) :P

[lurkers_lurk]

if the immortals can hit air, wont that overlap the stalkers ability to fight air and ground?

[Joneagle_X]

@ SD-Count , what are you talking about, man? In the gameplay vids the Colossus easily outruns the zerglings.

It's simply not that slow. I would compare its speed to the Dragoon for sure.

[MarineCorp]

Yep zerglings are fast and they could easily outrun the colossus plus the colossus would be very hard to micro

[kuvasz]

I'd guess Banelings move as fast as unupgraded Zerglings and that we saw unupgraded Zerglings in the movies. Upgraded ones should outrun Colossi, obviously.

[univ2045]

The Colossus id quite fast, although the rate of its strides is slow, it has long strides thanks to its long legs, so overall it's quite fast.