A small patch released this week meant mainly to fix a crash issue when exiting StarCraft 2. No huge changes with the exception of a size reduction for the Thor (and a model change) as well as a doubling of the Roach's supply requirement to 2. StarCraft II Beta -- Patch 12 (version 0.14.0.15343) The latest patch notes can always be found on our StarCraft II Beta General Discussion forum. Balance Changes PROTOSS Forge Build time increased from 35 to 45. Life and shield values decreased from 550/550 to 400/400. Mothership Vortex now removes Force Fields within its area of effect. TERRAN Thor Radius decreased from 1.375 to 0.8125. Model size reduced to match new radius. ZERG Roach Supply count increased from 1 to 2. User Interface Several Hotkey changes have been made (German client only). Bug Fixes Fixed a crash which sometimes occurred when quitting the program. Source: Battle.net
Not too sure what's up with the forge nerf. Cannon rushing or just wall offs? Thor change is neat. They were near impossible assaulting bases with any kind of ramp using Thors. Roach change I like, even as a Zerg player. All ZvZ games you pretty much have to go Roaches at the beginning, and just keep a giant blob around the rest of the game. Hopefully this makes Zerg players start using new strats.
I hate the roach nerf... since they got their armor nerfed I stopped using them, because marines rape them, zerglings rape them, and a SINGLE Zealot can kill a roach. A complete waste of resources.
Another Roach nerf.. they might as well take them out of the game and bring back something useful like Lurkers.
It's a pretty huge nerf. Most people are just saying, "Oh, just have to make another Overlord." Sure, it's not that big of a deal early game, but later when your meat shield is half the size it used to be, it's a pretty big nerf. It also seems like the Roach is now too weak to be 2 supply. They should very slightly buff it's stats. I don't have a SS of the new Thor and old Thor, but it's about the size of the pictures in the TLProMod gag. It's still big enough to look and feel like a powerful unit, but small enough that attacking with Thors against an enemy at a ramp actually makes sense. As for the Forge change, I think it was to discourage the CanonRush. It was really, really prevalent in the lower leagues, as most newer players don't scout their base. Ten seconds won't really change that though, so it may have been to make it harder for Protoss to wall off smaller chokes with a Gateway/Forge combo with Canons behind it? I am still dissapointed that there is no Ultra buff/reworking. It was honestly more broken then the Thor, which was pretty good already. It probably just means they need more time to finish it up.
Does anyone even use Ultralisks? Cuz I can honestly say that in all 100+ games I've played in the past few weeks, I don't recall ever seeing a single one. I've seen a few Ultralisk Caverns, but don't remember actually seeing any in battle.
I've never seen an ultralist on the field of battle either. I've seen Battlecruisers. I've seen and used carriers. But not one ultralisk. i think with the rush rush rush mentality of the zerg players. No one wants to evolve up to the ultralisk. (Saying tech up to ultralisk doesn't sound roght for the zerg.)
Tell that to zealots, which have a whopping 5 more hp than a roach. And are melee. And don't get kickass upgrades like roaches do.
@the8thark: I think I asked you before but I must've missed the answer: What league are you in? And, by the way, nerf means it was weakened. Buffs and nerfs are done with the intention of making the game more balanced. Therefore, whether or not it weakens or strengthens the unit is irrelevant. It's all done for balance, therefore, nerf is the same as what you said. But, while I'm here, I'll say that Roaches have not been as weakened as many think. It appears that there's a ton of copper players that rely heavily on Roaches that are reluctant to find a new strategy Also, yay for duplicate topics!
Agreed. Roaches are still very usable. Just what is needed is a different approach to using them now. And yeah copper zerg mostly always rush with roaches. So predictable. And I know somewhere I said copper league is what I am in. I've played a whole 6 or something ladder games. Whoopie. I'm more interested in watching replays, and testing strategies and what my gpu can handle vs friends and the baby AI. I'm not that much of a multipalyer fan. The odd MP game will do me. I only play more cause no SP exists now . And yeah you're right that a nerf or a buff can be better balancing if done correctly.
I used to use Roaches quite a bit during the early days of beta. It took about five games for me to get completely tired of using them solely. I can't believe people still use them in that way. Even if Roaches were instawin, I wouldn't use them in that way.
The Roach nerf kinda ruined the Zerg in my opinion. The three races are supposed to be different where Terrans are excellent with firepower and holding positions, Protoss have strong/expensive units that resemble alien warriors and are able to meet forces head on, and the Zerg are supposed to compensate by having slightly weaker/expendable units, but their strength is in numbers and overrunning an opponent's defenses. To me, the Zerg aren't really a swarm if they have the same number of units as a Terran or Protoss player. It might not sound like a big nerf, but cutting your forces in half is pretty big and it doesn't allow you to stock up on support units such as Infestors and Brood Lords as much. The Zerg need big numbers when approaching things like Terran mech or ranged Protoss units because your front lines will take the fall and you need units to keep coming in the same wave to overcome their firepower advantage. Also, fewer units means you will lose your ability to surround the opponent to overcome them and will be forced into more head on, man-on-man clashes where the Zerg aren't as strong. Since Hydras are 2 supply, slower, with the same health as 1 supply Hydras from Brood war, they can no longer be used as the meat shield or main foot soldier for the Zerg to overwhelm your enemy. The Roaches take that role with their speed, regeneration, and burrowing, but the nerf removes the Zerg's strengh in numbers uniqueness where you accel by attacking your opponent from all sides, or head on with double the units he has. Of course you have to change your tactics if you take away the one advantage the Zerg army has, just like a weaker army has to change its tactics if it's going up against the US army or Russian army. Just my opinion, but the Zerg massively lose flexibility with this nerf because now you're using double the resouces to achieve the same effect and you have less power for defense, counter attacks, cutting off supply lines, deceptive tactics, and attacking multiple locations. There's probably little hope that Blizzard will recind the nerf, but one can always hope. I think it's perfectly fair to remove the Roach nerf considering Hydras in Brood War were one supply, could attack ground and air, had speed upgrades, could mutate to Lurkers, and were impervious to range attacks under Dark Swarm. I don't believe that removing the one strengh the Zerg have (numbers) makes the game more balanced. Three races with unique strengths would make for a balanced game. Whenever something in nerfed, peple say "oh well, just change your tactics, hit and run now, just harass now." Military tactics come into play when you have forces of equal strengths and you need to outsmart your opponent to overcome the stalemate of firepower. Reducing an army to hit and run tactics, harassment, fly by attacks, etc are insurgent tactics that weaker forces are forced to use becase they lack the option of meeting the enemy head-on.
The nerf made Zerg players use other units then just 100% roaches. And that was Blizzard's intention. And I agree with it.
That's a silly reason. A lot of Protoss players would go all carriers and they dropped the supply limit to 6 when Brood War came out. Terran players can go all mech. No one had a problem with people in Sc1 going all Hydra. The game was out for 12 years and no one ever had a balance problem with someone going all Hydras, even though they could go ground+air, had speed upgrades, and could morph into Lurkers. What's wrong with players going all Roaches anyway, they're easier to counter than mass Hydras because they can't fight back against air units. I'm moreso suggesting that large numbers are better late-game because you can surround and approach heavily fortified areas and have a chance of breaking through with numbers. I'm all for balancing the early game so one race can't use cheese and win every game. That being said, I don't agree with giving any race a unit you can spam right away and win, whether they are Roaches, Zealots or Marines/Reapers. But then again, people without sufficient defense will say "there's no way to stop a Zealot rush!!" I have no problem with Blizzard balancing the game, in fact, I would prefer to play a game that is balanced; my problem is that the Zerg are losing their strength in numbers which is their unique ability among the three races. Perhaps they could introduce a new unit that functions as the Zerg's foot soldier or put Roaches back at 1 supply and make them available late game, since you will have Lings to spam early game.
