Infester Inspector

Well, we all have seen that Q&A batch 49 right? http://www.starcraft2forum.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8186

along with that article arose new artworks and one specifically for the infestor.. and what we can see with that, it no longer will appear as that walking blob full of mouth, the artwork definitely made it look like it was a vulgar toxic belcher eh?? It appears that it had evolved into somekind of a slug figure like the nydus worm, this works for me technically since i just wouldnt be able to imagine the previous model to go tunneling underground by chewing its pathway lol...

This new skill called fungal scourge it kind of works like the corpse explosion on diablo 2 if we compare it, with just the difference of initial damage that detereorates the target by time...

So... does that mean that the changes they will make are going to be a complete overhaul or just partial???

Previous Infester (from LTs' list of confirmed units)

- As a battle support unit, does not have any attacks.
- Can move while burrowed.
- Can cast Dark Swarm: Seems to be the same.
- Can cast Disease: Creates and aura that damages the unit.
- Can cast Infestation: Can infest any building and create infested marines from them. The marines are slow, but fires similar to regular marines.

The Infester is the successor to the Defiler. It is unique in its ability to move whilst burrowing, giving them an unprecedented amount of maneuverability. The Infester not only has the defiler ability Dark Swarm, but also has the ability to infest buildings. Currently the only buildings confirmed for infestation are the Terran Barracks, Supply Depot and Command Center. The brownish fluid they are seen spraying in various screenshots (and in the gameplay video) is the animation for their Infestation ability. We have unconfirmed reports that even some Protoss buildings are vulnerable to being infested.

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these concludes for me that fungal scourge will be replacing the disease spell specifically, the dark swarm by far is an iconic ability and will be hard to modify so its probably gonna stay, and the last one infestation might get updates too... Im a fan of the old unit model and as a zerg player this caster unit will be in the backbone of any zerg player ay most times if the game ever gets the next tier levels.

So what changes are you suspecting with the unit??

 

The current Infester no longer has Dark Swarm, Disease and Infestation, those were all taken out of the game a long way back.

It has Neural Parasite, Fungal Scourge and Spawn Infested Terran. The first two are the most likely to remain for balance, whilst the last ability would require more attention from development.

So, it's a complete overhaul.


-Psi

 

-these infested terrans are the structure-borne units right? with the rifle gun as a weapon? (boring)
-neutral parasite, i wasnt looking closely to the updates.. what does that do? is it for detection or for nothing?


wwhatt!!!!! no dark swarm?? lol, great... just great..

 

Infested Terrans are spawned from eggs thrown by the Infester, which hatch after a few seconds and start shooting at the nearest enemies. Infested Terrans die after a while.

Neural Parasite shoots a flea-like creature onto most any unit, mind controlling them. Even Battlecruisers were found to be mind controlled by this, it lasts 10 seconds.


-Psi

 

hmmm wish the Neural parasite would last a bit longer then 10 seconds. Although it's still enough to turn the tide of battle, I'm also more partial to infested marines that can be produced instead of grown only for a time before dying.

 

Ya I have to agree with you Michael_Liberty. I would like infested marines to be produced, instead of grown, and infested zealots too.

 

That is a stupid logic for me, to see the infester having them i.marines hatch out and shoot?? come on... the infesters belly might be corrosive enough to melt those armor plates and even to think that those marines will be shooting their gauss rifles??? thats just unreal... if i would lose control over my mind i wouldnt be able to think that smart to use a gun.... right..... maybe the zerg infestor has superior knowledge upon terran weaponry... wow, whats the next info? - infestors are actually terran mutations of weapon specialists and developers ... great. I rather have that theory of hatching out little zerg mind controllers therefore having access to structures like the barracks or whatever to get those units produced..

 

Please do not quote more than you post. Warning two.

Uhhhhhh, doesnt neural parasite exclude massive units?
Note: I may be wrong

 

Fungal Scourge definitely excluded massive units, but neural parasite is unknown at this point. Heard somewhere Battlecruisers were controlled as well.


-Psi

 

Well that's when you send the marines, and other infantry units in. Oh plus you send in a detector too.

 

I don't like the way the Infestor is headed... Mind controlling robotic units is not logical, as is not hatching marines from eggs!
I hope it gets changed, quickly!

 

I heard it discussed briefly on the B.Net forums, and there were some pretty interesting thoughts about it.

Some were just that there may have to be some organism inside, much like the Dragoon and Immortal, and to a much lesser extent, the Stalker. That thought could be taken further in thinking that all Protoss technology may have to be based on such an organism, which is why they do not create purely robotic Dragoons, etc.

However, and I do find this the most interesting or creative suggestion, someone had suggested that, much like how an organisms' nervous system works off a series of electrical impulses, which the Neural Parasite can supposedly therefore control by infiltrating the central nervous system and emitting its own impulses, or whatever, it could technically do the same to the wiring of a completely robotic unit.

The way I see it, if there was no problem with Dark Archons Mind Controlling mindless targets in StarCraft1, then there's no problem with Infesters Neural Parasiting neuron-less targets in StarCraft2.

 

the infestor seems to be the defilers replacement, and that being said it is MUCH weaker then its defiler counter part with the exception of the neural parasite. not only that but the infestor does not live up to its name well. i liked when it was able to infest any building at all for a limted time and was able to produce infested marines/protoss from those buildings or just make the buildings worthless for the enemy.

dark swarm just speaks for itself, it should have stayed or alteast had a logical replacement with someone of the same effect. the disease was just a very very weaker version of plauge. it dealt 100 dmg (without killing the target) instead of 300 dmg (without killing the target). if they were planning on making a nerfed version of plauge that only did 100 dmg, atleast let it kill off those units. disease also seems to be the weakest of the aoe skills compared to other devastating aoe skills of the protoss and terran. the hunter seeker missle can cause MASSIVE dmg to an area while the psi storm can also still do massive dmg.

and spawn infested terrans... ya that is just so stupid and illogical even for the SC universe. so infestors can just magically spawn infested terrans from there back? how? wheres the lore for that? if i wasnt mistaken then im pretty sure that u have to INFEST the marines in order to spawn them... it just makes so much more sense. and imo its a better alternative to infest them because not only do u gain a extra unit of your own but the enemy LOOSES a few units of there own. this makes the enemy have to kill off there own unit in order to not take additional dmg. that adds just alot of fun and creativity to the game and makes ALOT more sense lore wise then to just spawn the infested terran out of nowhere... granted that i dont know much about the lore of this game like some ppl, but it just makes more sense in general lore or not... the zerg is a swarm that infects other races inorder to make there race and army bigger. that pretty much sums up what the zerg is. so why make the infestor, which seems to be the prime and most important unit in the zerg arsenal in terms of assimilation and infestation such a weak, illogical and inaccurate unit?

so this is just one of the examples of why the zerg are so weak. the other races are just much stronger in terms of abilities compared to the zerg =/

 

While Dark Swarm in StarCraft1 was useful, I fail to see how it's a requirement for StarCraft2. Zerg have already been given a number of new ways to counter mass ranged units, mainly consisting of Roaches and Banelings, both of which come much earlier than Dark Swarm. Basically, Dark Swarm was there to protect Zergs' weaker units, which, due to the new units in StarCraft2, isn't required any more. They've got new early tanks, buffed late tanks, land mines, are able to heal with the Overseer's Transfusion ability, and are able to pump out units at a much faster rate than before with the Queen's Spawn Larvae ability.

After looking into it a bit, the Dark Swarm ability was basically the Zerg's equivalent of Medics and Repair, and to a lesser extent, Shields and Shield Batteries. Basically, it was what allowed the Zerg units to survive longer than they otherwise would. In StarCraft2, however, a lot of this has been changed, particularly with Terran, such as the Medivac replacing the Medic and the Protoss losing their Shield Batteries. With all the changes in StarCraft2, it's hardly even comparable any more, because Dark Swarm just doesn't fit in with the new units and mechanics. For example, Dark Swarm with Banelings would be practically be impossible to counter.

As for Disease, that's basically just balance. Seriously, you shouldn't be able to practically destroy almost anything, including a lot of buildings, just by getting off one, lucky Disease, especially when Defilers can instantly restore their Energy, especially when Disease doesn't set off any alerts, especially when most teams cannot get that health back, or at least not in any reasonable time, and especially when it can be combined with other abilities, like EMP, in team games. The Disease nerf is just balance, and if it was, in fact, the reason why Zerg are weak, because obviously the balance of an entire race is dependant on one ability, then it'll be balanced at a later stage. It's just undergoing balance changes, just the same as EMP and Psionic Strom have undergone changes.

As for Spawning Infested Marines, that's predominantly a lore issue, and doesn't really relate to balance. That said, it's much better for the Zerg is they don't have to go to the effort of infesting buildings in order to reap the rewards of the Infestation. As for the lore, the Zerg are enigmatic. There's a heck of a lot that has simply never been explained, simply because it's impossible, such as Zerg units flying in space. As for creating Infested Marines, I hardly see how it's that far a step from Hatcheries creating Larvae, and the Larvae mutating into a creature. Seeing as natural animals are able to create their own enamel, keratin, chitin, etc, evolving the ability to develop compounds of iron and carbon isn't too far fetched, provided the organism has access to those elements in the first place.

Lastly, you're forgetting the Infestor's ability to move while Burrowed, which instantly increases the usefulness and practicality of all its abilities ten-fold. Where it might have been difficult to Disease a group of targets in StarCraft1, it's simple in StarCraft2. Where the Infestor would otherwise be spotted and killed when trying to Neural Parasite if it had to Unburrow, it can cast it instantly without having to expose itself. Where the Infestor would otherwise have to be transported to an improperly protected mineral line or expansion if it couldn't move underground, now it's easy for it to sneak in and spew Marines all over their production line. The Infestor is literally the first properly Cloaked unit that the Zerg has, and better still, it doesn't even take up Energy. Zerg have gone from having the worst ability to Cloak in general in StarCraft1 to having the best Cloaker in the whole game in StarCraft2.

 

Yea I agree they are doing a huge overhual and nothing will remain the same. SC 2 will soon be UNcompairable to SC 1 because of so many different units and such.

The only true thing I see staying exactly the same as SC1 would be zerglings by means of the very same use time that thy come. They're still the zergs little attacker running around killing in large numbers. Pretty much the same. Even the marines and zealots have gotten upgrades via charge and HP buffs for marines, the zerglings have really not changed at all. Just there look before and after their normal speed upgrade. Drones haven't changed even less with no way of mining faster like the other races it puts the Zerg into a slump at later stages of the game.

Over all the changes have been great and for the better.

gl hf blizz!

 

uh, i have alot to say about this post so this might end up being extremly long comment. just fair warnning to anyone who will want to read it.

i can agree that darkswarm isnt to needed in starcraft 2, but if you look at the other races that get all kinds of defensive skills like the immortals harden shields, the BCs defensive matrix, the medivac ships, etc then its only fair that the zerg get there dark swarm to protect there units aswell. and dark swarm is one of the few caster skills that can actually be used in the favor of both players. granted the caster will reap more rewards from it, but a skilled opposing player can use the dark swarm to there advantage if the caster made a wrongly placed swarm. but i guess i can see your point with the banelings and dark swarm.

as for disease, well i dont see how its balancing a balancing nerf... again you should look at the terrans. they have the nuke ability which is probaly the single most powerful ability in the game. 300 dmg against units and 500 dmg against buildings and a very very large area of effect. and it kills, it doesnt just leave a target at 1 hp. your dead if you dont have the hp to tank. they also have the raven which is equipped with hunter seeker missle. this does 150 dmg to targets and its splashable dmg with a decently large area of effect. this does more dmg then disease and is able to kill off the target if they dont have the hp to tank it unlike disease which doesnt kill u at all.

protoss still have there psionic storm and a new ability called time rift. psionic storm causes 150 area of effect dmg and can kill off there targets. and if you combine time rift of 1 templar with psionic storm from another templar then it will be pretty hard to run out of the storm...

so if you look at what the other units have compared to disease you will see its not all that powerful in comparison. especially since alot of the new units and even old units have higher ammounts of HP then in the original. also infectos dont have consume like difilers did. infact no zerg units have consume to regain there energy. and disease isnt "pratically destroying" anything. it only does 100 dmg and it DOES NOT kill the unit. so if someone has like 50 hp and cast disease it wont kill that unit, just reduce its hp to 1. and if that unit is a marine then it can easily get that hp back with the medicvac ship... protoss cant regain there energy like terrans and the zerg, but they do still have there shields. and i would say disease is more of a anti toss skill just like irradiate was a anti zerg skill.

when you look at what the zerg has compare to the other races then you will see they dont have much late game abilities. i mean seriously, the added resource and economy buffs the toss and terran have from mules/dark pylons, the maruders, the BCs, the mother ship, blinking, hardened shields from immortals, the new siege tanks which basically insta kills roaches because of there bonus to armored units and etc etc.

i know it seems im nitpicking alot or something, and i realize that SC2 is still in its early stages and the devs still balancing stuff off so alot can still change. all im saying is that the zerg has next to nothing compared to other races. and again, that can just be because they havent finished balancing out the zerg to be on the same lvl as the other races or vice versa. but i think mostly everyone can aggree that the zerg doesnt have much going for them right now.

ya the infestors can also move while burrowed which is a good advantage and jump from the last game, but i think your forgetting that terrans and toss have cloaking units like Dark templars and ghosts that can move while cloaked. the investors ability to move while cloaked is simply the same as the Dark templars and ghost ability to move while cloaked... i mean, before zerg units could hide themselves and essentially cloak themselves by burrowing but they couldnt move which is fine and dandy since having all units that can burrow and move would be pretty broken. but saying the infestors ability to move while burrowed is useful is quite redundant. thats like if the Ghost and DTs in SC1 were able to cloak but couldnt move while cloaked and then all of a sudden is able to move while cloaked in SC2. its useful, but it does not give them any huge advantage like you may think. also, a simple cannon or turret can easily spot an infestor coming in. especially in mide/late game when infestors will most likely come into play. by that time toss and terrans will have detection all over the place. its a big leap from SC1 to have a unit move while burrowed yes, but imo its just something that is longer over do and was bound to happen eventually.

anyway, thats it for now. sorry for the extremely long post x.x; got carried away because of pure boredom...

 

Firstly, it's great to have some lengthy conversations like this, but, in having them, there is a tendency to overquote, either accidentally or otherwise. Please do not quote the entirety of long posts in your reply. Instead, either add a simple "@ Itza" to the top of your reply, or piecemeal the quote, breaking it down into individual paragraphs in order to respond to each point directly.

Secondly, my reply.

First off, you seem to be starting to compare a couple of the Infestor's abilities to the entirety of the Terran and Protoss spellcasting armada. For each point you're comparing the Infestor's ability to one of the most extreme cases of the Terran or Protoss, which isn't really as relevant as other, more comparable spells.

The Zerg do have a world of abilities at their disposal, such as the Infestor's Disease, Neural Parasite and Spawn Infested Marines, of course, as well as moving while Burrowed, the Queen's Razor Swarm which acts as a commandable Psionic Storm, and Spawn Larvae, the Overseer's Transfusion and Changeling and the Spawn Changeling ability, as well as passive things, like the Brood Lord's Broodlings and Roach's Regeneration, Corruptor's corruption. While it may seem some are useless or that other teams have better abilities, such as Siege Tanks insta-killing Roaches, which they might not actually be able to do now depending on the latest tweaks, but regardless, the Roach is still doing its job. It's taking the fire that the damage dealers would otherwise be taking. In my opinion, throwing some Roaches into the fray is win-win for the Zerg. Overall, though, the Zerg's abilities focus on adding more to the swarm, by spawning, converting, infesting, etc. The only real problem with Zerg abilities at the moment, as you've identified, seems to be with their economy boost.

As for Terran's and Protoss' ability to protect their units and armies, from the examples you gave, it looks to me as though they, too, have actually been nerfed. Firstly, the Immortal's Hardened Shields, which they haven't been nerfed themselves, only really apply to a single unit, much like the Roach's regeneration. As for Defensive Matrix, it only applies to Battlecruisers, as opposed to being able to be cast on any unit in StarCraft1, and on top of that, it's at the expense of losing Yamato and Missile Barrage. With the Medivac, it's more debatable, as although it heals quicker, there will be less present on the battlefield. It could well turn out that Medics are more effective when supporting Marines than Medivacs are.

With Disease, I'm sure you can see how comparing it to Terran's Nuke is a bit one-sided. Nuke is the most powerful ability in the game, costs two hundred minerals and gas, eight supply, it takes a Command Centre to hold each, individual Nuke, takes about ten seconds to drop, is completely lost if the Ghost is killed, and sends a global alert to all players. Disease, on the other hand, can be cast instantly, and the Energy used can instantly be restored by Consuming a couple of Zerglings.

The old Disease was extremely potent, you have to admit that, just like EMP and Psionic Storm was. It could demolish most Terran defensive structures, half the health of almost all Protoss units and reduce all but the Ultralisk to one health. In much the same way, EMP and Psionic Storm were equally as potent, again reducing all Protoss to half health, albeit temporarily but still instantaneously, nullify Archons and massacring Zerg swarms. In StarCraft2, all of these abilities have been nerfed. Disease only deals a hundred damage, a nerf but still a lot of damage, and the same goes for EMP. Psionic Storm has also been reduced, and although Temporal Rift has been introduced, the Protoss already had the means of immobilising Zerg swarms in Brood War with Maelstrom. Overall, these abilities are still effective spells, but they're simply not as devastating as they were in StarCraft1, and nor should they be.

When I said Disease could practically destroy anything, I was referring to the StarCraft1ability. There's little that it didn't reduce to one health, and with your Marine with fifty health example, there's no difference between the two, except for the Infestor being able to cast it while hidden.

As for moving while Burrowed, it's a superior mechanism to the Ghost's Cloak, and the Infestor is much more useful than the Dark Templar. Basically, you would Burrow these immediately, and not Unburrow them ever, unless you're transporting them, of course.

Anyway, this has gone far longer than I wanted, so I'll leave it there.

 

ya, it does seem like im comparing the infestor to the entire terran and protoss spellcasting army. well that is because i kinda am. this is a topic about the infestor so i thought its only fair to compare it to other spellcasting units in the game. yes the zerg has the queen and overseer, both of which are very good units. especially the overseers ability to instanly heal units and buildings for 200 HP, that is a very good ability considering in SC1 the zerg had no healing abilities accept to wait while healed. also superior to the medivac it seems which would cost 200 energy to heal 200 hp and would take a pretty long time while it is instant for the overseer and only cost 50 energy. granted its only 1 unit/structure at a time and i doubt its passive, but still a good skill. changeling i have no clue since i still dont know exactly how the changeling works. i know it acts as a spy but its usefullness depends on the enemy. im pretty sure he will know whats up when he sees a stray zealot/marine in his base not being able to be hotkeyed or sent into battle.


but ya im to tired to get into longer detail atm. and tbh its not really fair to make such comparisons when neither of us has played it yet. so ill wait till the beta is out to get back into this and see what the zerg terran and toss are really capable of.

 

Personally im dissapointed. Dark Swarm and Plague were very Zergy.

Now we got lolterrans, friggin mind control, and the only decent one, fungal scourge.

Total downgrade if you ask me.

 

No, the current Infestor has Disease.

Seeing as instantly spawning Infested Marines is easier than Infesting their buildings and that Neural Parasite can be used on freaking Colossi, I'd say that's a fairly substantial upgrade.