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Major Plot Hole and Questions [SPOILERS INCLUDED]

Discussion in 'Wings of Liberty Campaign Discussion' started by onewho, Aug 26, 2010.

Major Plot Hole and Questions [SPOILERS INCLUDED]

  1. onewho

    onewho Guest

    Ok, so I think I've found a major plot hole that I have yet to see discussed on here.

    The future that Zeritul presents to Raynor is what happens if Kerrigan is killed, right? She is the key to stopping the end of days from happening... From what I can part together, it is her independent mind and control of the zerg that makes her the key. Without her control of the zerg is up to "the highest bidder" (for lack of a better term), which in this case is going to be the hybrids.

    So to reiterate, Kerrigan is the only thing stopping the Hybrids from controlling the zerg...

    Well at the end of Liberty's Crusade Kerrigan is "cured" and made fully human. It stands to reason that she no longer has control of the zerg; so its only a matter of time before the Hybrids take control. Thus the end of days is still going to happen. Major Plot hole!

    Questions:
    1: Once Kerrigan is freed of the overmind's control in the first game she goes on and on about how much she loves what shes become. She still retains her memory and is able to pursue her own interests. So when Raynor "cures" her, wouldn't she pissed?... If she really didn't want to be the queen of blades then wouldn't she do everything she could to make herself human again.... Unless that is the reason she hasn't done anything for the past 4 years; it's so easy for the terran to get to her on Char, and why she was going for the artifacts in the first place.

    2: A lot of people have pointed out that there is a 4 year gap between the end of Brood War and this game. And a lot of people ask what Kerrigan has been up to for these 4 years. Zeritul does encounter her as he is looking for the prophesies (which happens during those unknown 4 years). Which begs the question; is that what shes been up to? And how much does she know about her own importance in the grand scale of things?

    I've got more questions, but these are the main ones on my mind for now. I figured some of you might have a few opinions.
     
  2. Daemonicus

    Daemonicus New Member

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    Please place a SPOILERS INCLUDED in the title of this thread, it is one of this forum's rules

    Also, there will be 2 more campaign, the next one from the zerg perspective, what the queen of blades was doing may be answered there.
     
  3. marinefreak

    marinefreak New Member

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    We don't know this.

    Make of that what you will. The problem with this plot is that the books give basically the whole backstory.

    Another assumption which blizz hasn't stated additionally we don't know the events leading up to the hybrids taking control of the swarm.

    1.Well she had access to various Xel Naga temples so through that she may have learned about the artifacts. Not specifics but at least some idea of their power. In Starcraft Hybrid Kerrigan struggles to sacrifice a woman who reminds her of her human form. After 4 years of being infested and knowing the end was coming she most likely desired to return to her human form additionally infestation has been noted to increase aggression so initial power+aggression explains her initial reaction to becoming infested. She had free will but the infestation made her evil.

    I think those are questions for the expansions. I havn't looked through all of the novels so they may give a glimpse as well.

    Take a look at SC wiki as well since it has alot of background plot relevant to the SC2 plot.
     
  4. onewho

    onewho Guest

    Response to Daemonicus: I will happily change the threat to read Spoilers Included.... or I will as soon as you explain how to change the topic name (I cant seem to find the option to do that; I just need a quick explanation of how to fix it and I'll fix it).

    I also realize there is going to be 2 more campaigns, and hope a lot of the questions are going to be answered there. I guess we wont have solid answers until those come out.
     
  5. Arterial

    Arterial New Member

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    you DONT know for sure that Kerrigan has lost control of the zerg.
     
  6. Aurora

    Aurora The Defiant

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    In fact, we really don't know anything about Kerrigan's state after this latest change in her physiology. For all we know she still has the psionic powers that allow her to control the Swarm, but possibly with more effort and from less of a distance. I can totally see Heart of the Swarm being about her struggle to keep control over the Zerg, while both Maar controlled zerg, Dominion (since Tychus failed) and Protoss factions such as the Maar aligned ones trying to stop her. It obviously wouldn't be able to make up the majority of the storyline, but it'd surely be an interesting thing to see.
     
  7. ArchAngely

    ArchAngely New Member

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    HA! Found the answer when i was on the WC!!!
    Lots of people asked how could the terrans locate the artifacts sooner than the QoB even though she was the f*cking QoB and had all the sector in her hand. Some said she just brew the new generation of zergs which we see in the game now but you reminded me that the meetings between Zeratul and Kerigan were also in those 4 years. MAYBE she DID found some of the artifacts. Maybe she kept one or more key parts of the Xel'Naga weapon (assumed it is a weapon) that the terrans used on Char somewhere safe and she knew that without those the transformation of her in human form couldn't be done 100%. The overmind was a immensly strong telepathic being which held control over all remotely telling them what to do. Kerigan was also under it's control. It was very wise and as we know now it could also see the future. MAYBE it transmited the knoledge of the Xel'naga to her (it absorbed many of them when they were killed) making her know about the existence of the artifact and understand the purpose and the way it worked. Also the prophecy could have been transmited to Kerrigan durring Broodwar (by the second overmind) and that's why there was the 4 year pause (to prepare for the events that occur now). that makes sense because she hinted she knew what was comming during the meating of the two major race leaders. MAYBE she made a plan to ensure that the Dark Voice will be beaten in the end and all the fighting on Char was fake. She was the QoB, the leather of the Zerg, her children (from her feelings... you can see how gentle she treats the Hydralisks in every video) and she knew she had to sacrifice many of them so that in the end the race will survive. She MAY have let the terrans go home with a win from Char, knowing that Raynor wouldn't kill her, partially transform her (because she made sure the artifact couldn't work 100%) and made the Dark Voice celebrate a early and false victory. I have no idea why and how she planed to beat it in the end but i'm sure that 90% of what i wrote was her plan (or the plan of the writters from Blizzard). It's so twisted that i think it could work.
    I said it more than once that i believe that the next campaign will be set partly during the WoL campaign and we'll see the reason for the Zerg attacks and then the sudden withdraw during the WoL (the withdraw began BEFORE the terrans started headed to Char). I believe that the next chapter will be the story focusing Kerigan (like WoL did on Raynor) BUT not after WoL. During WoL and maybe a bit also after it.
     
  8. Muaddib

    Muaddib New Member

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    You have brought the most important point which I've raised here several times.

    In Brood War, the fact Kerrigan was free from the Overmind and all the manipulations she did subsequently was what made the story so good - not a lame good vs. evil end of the world crap - but a story of real gray people: an unbelievable alliance of Kerrigen, Raynor, Fenix and Mengsk against the UED (the only force that could have stopped kerrigan) was wisely wiped by her cunning mind, which then turned upon her allies - not because she's "evil" but because that was who she has become due to her life experience. Loosing the zerg DNA should not change it (to begin with Kerrigan was able to retain a personality and not become a mindless infested Terran zombie because of her psionic powers)

    Blizzard has ruined the story. Brood War ended with a clear conclusion - Kerrigan whooped everybody's a** (and most notably Mengsk's - who's a** was whooped twice in that expention pack alone, first by the UED and then by Kerrigan. It's like he's a cockroach that just won't die)

    It's simply not interesting nor realistic how Mengsk is still in full power and how a small group of rebels managed to defeat the Queen of Blades herself and nonetheless but twice! (once in the Mobius world and then on her own planet with a magic artifact - come one..).

    Also you've forgotten the biggest plot hole of them all:

    Since Tychus was working for Mengsk from the beginning it means Mengsk knew everything Raynor was doing all along (all of Raynor's operations against the Dominion) and it means he believed the small group of rebels would get close enough to the Queen of Blades herself and actually survive, defeat her and kill her, even though they didn't even plan to face her at all in the beginning! AND on top of it all he was even willing to bet on it and sacrifice the media blow he took from the raiders so it would happen - which is even more unrealistic and plane stupid.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  9. Kimera757

    Kimera757 New Member

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    Mengsk didn't know Findlay was in the Odin. Findlay didn't like Mengsk, he was his slave. So while Findlay may have been passing on information, there's nothing to say that information was complete or even accurate.

    If Raynor got killed attacking Kerrigan, Mengsk would have been fairly happy, I think. But he figured Raynor would know a lot about fighting the zerg, and deinfesting Kerrigan would (among other things) help counter the media campaign anyway.
     
  10. Muaddib

    Muaddib New Member

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    No.

    It doesn't matter if Mengsk knew whether Tychus is in the Odin or not - he already knew the raiders took the computer with the information in the big train robbery mission - which means he would have ordered Tychus to destroy the computer or ad least prevent it's broadcasting - the operation on Korhal to broadcast it would have been proof to Mengsk that Tychus is a traitor and should be put down since he didn't prevent it or ad least inform about it.

    At the beginning there was no zerg invasion and Raynor didn't plan any special interactions with the Queen of Blades. Raynor can know a lot about fighting zergs - it still means that he and his small rebel group has a very very very very low chance to stop the entire zerg swarm. Most certainly if we compare it to the armada of an entire empire, which is lead by an emperor that already knows a lot about fighting the zerg himself. So no, the entire situation still makes no sense.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2010
  11. Galgus

    Galgus New Member

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    It would make for an awesome storyline- the Zerg might actually be the ones you root for for once.

    And who did Kerrigan sacrifice before?
     
  12. Galgus

    Galgus New Member

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    That smells like a plot hole- how wouldn't Mengsk know Findlay was in the Odin?

    Wasn't the point of a life support termination switch that he could see everything Tychus was doing and force him to do whatever he wanted?

    Or was his purpose for Findlay to kill Kerrigan so important that he was willing the let the mission go through, and have his war crimes revealed?

    I think the secret mission reveals a possible tie between Mengsk and whoever is behind the Hybrid- killing Kerrigan may have been a job given to him by the Hybrid commander.
     
  13. Galgus

    Galgus New Member

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    Perhaps Mengsk didn't think that Raynor would be capable of what he did, but instead kept Tychus as a spy- since Raynor wasn't much of a threat as-is.

    There seems to be a lot going on in the background that needs explaining, though.
     
  14. Muaddib

    Muaddib New Member

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    This option is of course much more logical; that Tychus was simply a spy all along and was given the mission to kill Kerrigan only at the end (though the last scene certainly makes it seem as though this mission was the entire reason for his "enslavement" in the suit by Mengsk)

    It still makes no sense how the raiders are able to hurt the Dominion so badly in so many missions (the big train robbery, the invasion to Valerian' ships and the invasion to Korhal to broadcast the tapes) when the Dominion has a freaking spy in the raiders forces. It only means Tychus was a useless spy. Now I also remind you that his entire suit was under the control of Mengsk's death word which makes the entire situation even more stupid and non-logical.
     
  15. Muaddib

    Muaddib New Member

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    Maybe: "..his purpose for Findlay to kill Kerrigan so important that he was willing the let the mission go through, and have his war crimes revealed"

    But it still makes no sense simple because Raynor didn't plan to even encounter Kerrigan during the Big Train robbery mission (in which the raiders got hold on the proof to the alleged crimes) at which point Mengks could have simply ordered Tychus to destroy the tapes or ad least somehow sabotage Raynor's attempt to broadcast them.

    It also makes no sense simple because Raynor led a small group of rebels. Mengsk is the leader of an empire. I do not see how he is willing to let his war crimes be revealed and bet his "money" on Raynor instead trusting his own armies.
     
  16. Galgus

    Galgus New Member

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    Everything makes so much more sense without Tychus being a spy- but he plainly is in the story.

    About the only thing I can come up with is that someone tampered with/ lied to Mengsk about the suit video feed, but thats just trying to cover up a big plot hole.

    EDIT: Perhaps Valerion or someone else under Mengsk was in control of the suit and its video?
     
  17. enzo1089

    enzo1089 New Member

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    I personally think that Tychus's original mission "was" to spy on Raynor, earn his trust with a few jobs against the Dominion (I'm not referring to the broadcast) and then when the time is right they would take him down. Remember, Raynor has always been very resourseful, so it would take a lot of planning to capture him and Mengsks knows that. I believe the this was the "original" plan, but remember guys, plans change. That's what a lot of you are failing to see i think. A clever person like Mengsks isn't going to stick to one plan especially when everything around it starts to change. No, he is going to adapt. Here is were it changes in my opinion.

    After Mar Sara, Raynor and everyone are watching the news were they see that the Zerg and the QOB is back and that the death toll for the dominion is huge! I think right there and then Mengsks changed his plan to now taking down Kerrigain. Killing Kerrigain would be a much larger political impact then any war crime from his past would be, by far. Mengsks can be like, "yeah I committed war crimes in the past, but I just killed the QOB." No one is going to care about his war crimes after that. He'll be the biggest hero ever to set foot in that sector. Also, Mengsks as swarn his revenge against Kerrigain. I think it was after she killed Duke.

    And for the people that are like, Mengsks couldnt have known from the beginning that Raynor would face Kerrigain, we that is true. But Mengsks as well as Zeratul, and everyone else knew Raynor would go after her as soon as she reappeared. He changed the plan then, predicting that Raynor would go after her eventually, because that's just how Raynor is. Anyone could have predicted Raynor would do that.

    Last thing, the Raiders weren't the only force that attacked Char, they stated that over half of the Dominions army attack Char with him.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
  18. Muaddib

    Muaddib New Member

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    it's an option but in the end we see clearly how it is Mengsk who orders Tychus to kill Kerrigan as he was ordered to, so it's still a big plot hole that needs to be explained.

    in any case, it just proves once again how the story SUC**.
     
  19. Muaddib

    Muaddib New Member

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    1. Since you're not referring to the broadcast - how do you explain it and the pre-requisite mission of the big train robbery? Which afterwards Mengsk KNEW that Raynor got in his possession the proof for his crimes (if Tychus is a spy that is).

    2. If the "new" plan is for Tychus to help Raynor breach the Zerg warm (right) so they could get close enough to the QOB and then for him to kill her, how would exactly Mengsk claim the achievement for himself? (Everybody would know it was Raynor - his no.1 public enemy).

    3. Now I would remind you that Mengsk is clearly NOT AWARE that half of his fleet is going to invade Char with one of his biggest enemies (Raynor), as we see clearly in one of the films how Mengsk is angry on his son for taking that same half of the fleet.

    4. Which brings me back again to say and ask; even if EVERYBODY (including Mengsk and the mighty Zeratul) KNEW that Raynor would go after her as soon as she reappeared, it still doesn't mean Raynor would SUCCEED. This is the QOB, Raynor is leading a small rebel group. There is no way in hell Mengsk would be willing to take the broadcast blow just because he thinks that Raynor "would go after her".
     
  20. enzo1089

    enzo1089 New Member

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    Ok, your jump way ahead of yourself. I was referring to the "ORIGINAL" plan. As in th plan they made before they even sent Tychus in. It was probably do some missions with Raynor on Mar Sara, gain his trust, and then caputer, or kill, him and his rebels shortly after. BUT when the QOB showed up, which is BEFORE the train robbery, Mengsks changed the plan to focusing on killing Kerrigain. If Tychus would have intervened with the train robbery or even the broadcast then that would have blown his cover and ruined Mengsks's plans. So you see, Tychus couldn't have done anything without endangering his "NEW" more important plan. Sometimes you got to make political sacrifices to make political gain.

    This one is fairly easy is you understand the character of Mengsks. For one, he controls all the media, and two Raynor would have killed Kerrigain. Mengsks's asassin and his master plan did. Mengsks is planning on stealing all that credit, trust me. When it comes to the media and politics, no one is better. Does Raynor have a news station, I dont think so, but Mengsks does :)

    This is true, but also irrelevent to what i'm saying. His original plan is for Raynor to find a way to get close to Kerrigain, that's it. Raynor would have found a way eventually. Once again that's the predictable Jim Raynor everyone knows. Another key point to note that I didn't mention earliar is that even if Raynor fails, well then Jim and Tychus are both dead and there is no more Rebellion. Understand that this "RISK" was actually a win win situation for Mengsks. But yes, he was caught off guard by his son. Whether the fleet had helped Jim or not he would have tried to get to Kerrigain eventually.

    He doesnt need to succeed. If he fails, he dies. Mengsks wins against the rebellion. On a side note, some times a smaller force has a much larger success rate then a whole army. Their are many example of this in real life and in fictional novels and games. Examples: LOTRs, any kind of special forces group, Starwars, etc. Yes in a head to head fight the raiders will loss, but they went for a get in get out stratagy. Which is very affective with in a short amount of time.

    My point in everything i'm saying is that, there is no hole what so ever in the story. You just have to stop and get into the minds of the character. That's half the fun of these stories. Just because Blizzard doesnt example every behind the scenes detail, doesnt mean the story itself doesnt make sense, or has a hole. Just stop and think about it, that's half the fun :D