Return of Fenix?

Discussion in 'StarCraft 2 Story and Races' started by Windblade, Feb 16, 2009.

Return of Fenix?

Discussion in 'StarCraft 2 Story and Races' started by Windblade, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. Windblade

    Windblade New Member

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    new to the forums so sorry if this was discussed already.

    Since Fenix came back as a dragoon, and considering Kerrigan killed him, anyone think that Duran might have taken his body and turned him into a hybrid? This would make him part of the Xel'Naga and possibly help reunite the Protoss with the Xel'Naga. Which imho is a goal for the XG, they considered the protoss the best but were depressed and left when they split into tribes.

    just a thought, but i think it would be cool story-wise to have Fenix be a Xel'Naga/Hybrid hero, and it would be a good base for them as a playable race in Starcraft 3(you know its gunna happen!)
  2. Arvendragon

    Arvendragon New Member

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    OR

    Xel'Naga may be present as a playable race or as an add-on race like the Naga and the Dranei in any of the two expansions.
  3. Windblade

    Windblade New Member

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    didnt blizz already say that there would ONLY be the 3 original races for now? if history is any indicator

    Warcraft - 2
    Warcraft II - same two races
    Warcraft III - Now we have new races

    we are currently at starcraft II
  4. Arvendragon

    Arvendragon New Member

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    They confirmed no new races for Wings of Liberty I think. Correct me on this.
  5. EonMaster

    EonMaster Eeveelution Master

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    they have stated that the xel'naga would appear in the single player campaign, so it's likely that there will be special units only the xel'naga have.

    But there will only be the 3 main races in multiplayer.
  6. Kimera757

    Kimera757 New Member

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    Why would he bother?

    Duran had access to plenty of protoss already. Note that he didn't infest the protoss though, as they're resistant due to the Khala. Instead, he spliced their DNA.

    Even if a "hybrid" containing Fenix's DNA was created, it would just be an empty-minded clone.

    Also, Duran only used high templar for their DNA; presumably he doesn't want a "wimp's" DNA. (Fenix was definitely not a wimp, but there's a reason he was a zealot despite being older than Tassadar; he was a warrior, not a mindwalker.)

    In short, he's poor material and it wouldn't matter anyway. Fenix is dead.

    Also, Blizzard said that Fenix is dead at BlizzCon. Dead, not "mostly dead".

    How does that even make sense? First of all, there's nothing to indicate that the hybrids are anything more than powerful creations of the xel'naga. It wouldn't make sense for them to actually be xel'naga, as the x'n existed before the protoss and zerg did, and even if they "possessed" the bodies of the hybrids they would lack the purity of essence -- the entire point of making these races.

    Also, the xel'naga have all but been confirmed to be bad guys in StarCraft II. There will be no reunion, unless it ends with much spilling of protoss blood.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2009
  7. Windblade

    Windblade New Member

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    where have they confimed that the xel'naga are evil? and why the hell would they want to destroy everything? lore wise they favored the protoss and only left because they split (which was because the x'n pushed them). i would like a direct quote on them being evil. If your basing this on Zeratul, well he even said their return was foretold but no one knows if its to save them or not. Blizz said the Xel'Naga are a backbone of the story and will part of each game, with their own special units or, most likely, characters
    and yes the hybrids are PART of the xel'naga, not THE xel'naga, but part of them, why? because they are exactly what the xel'naga envisioned purity of form and essence. But of course there is the possibility the X'N have a nemesistic race that are making the hybrids and they are coming to stop them...
    and we have no idea if the hybrids are empty shells or how the splicing works exactly, since the protoss have higher psionic abilities it is possible for fenix to retain his mind

    EDIT: Zeratul also said the cycle is going to end, well what is the cycle? maybe ending it is a good thing, and its possible this "cycle" is of the zerg - they infest species and evolve which is basically a cycle of evolution.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2009
  8. Kimera757

    Kimera757 New Member

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    "where have they confimed that the xel'naga are evil?"

    Dangit, I meant to say "all but confirmed". (I'm cussing myself there, not you.)

    Their horrible experiments under Aiur (in Shadow Hunters) was a pretty good indication that the xel'naga are not benevolent. Jake Ramsey was already doubting them by that point (he had many memories from the Aeon of Strife, including those experiments). Duran's experiments as well. Their temple on Bhekar Ro drained the life essences of numerous protoss before it could hatch. Even Zeratul doubts them. (He wonders if they come to save, or to destroy.)

    "and why the hell would they want to destroy everything?"

    Wouldn't be much of a game if we knew their full motives, now would it? :) I figure revenge against the zerg is part of it, but that's pretty obvious.

    "lore wise they favored the protoss"

    Because the protoss were pure of form (and essence). That doesn't mean the xel'naga are good guys. The xel'naga were also pleased by the zerg (as well as being horrified). You can't trust a group of scientists who were happy they made biological killing machines.

    The only "evidence" we have they're good guys are:

    1) Protoss traditions holds them to be good.
    2) The protoss worshipped them as gods. Of course they'll have a good reputation.
    3) The founder of the protoss religion, Khas, hooked himself up to a xel'naga artifact. (The latter is ambiguous. On the one hand, the artifact painfully drained the energy of several protoss, on the other hand, Khas did end the civil war afterward.)

    "Blizz said the Xel'Naga are a backbone of the story and will part of each game, with their own special units or, most likely, characters"

    No one is arguing that. StarCraft II would be lame if it didn't follow up on Dark Origin.

    "and yes the hybrids are PART of the xel'naga, not THE xel'naga, but part of them, why? because they are exactly what the xel'naga envisioned purity of form and essence. "

    No, that makes them a creation. Maybe (very likely) part of their faction. That doesn't mean they're the same thing.

    "But of course there is the possibility the X'N have a nemesistic race that are making the hybrids and they are coming to stop them..."

    That's a logical fallacy. See Occam's Razor, aka parsimony. It's more likely the xel'naga are making them (you know, the sort of thing you've said the xel'naga would want, hey I believe that to) than a species we never heard anything about doing all this. After all, this species we never heard about might not even exist.

    "and we have no idea if the hybrids are empty shells or how the splicing works exactly, since the protoss have higher psionic abilities it is possible for fenix to retain his mind"

    1) If the hybrids kept the original protoss personalities, they'd just be super-protoss. Zeratul considers them abominations. I think I can trust his word here. Duran could have stopped Zeratul from killing the hybrid by saying "that's [random protoss guy] in there".

    2) We do have a good idea of how the gene splicing worked. Take genes from one source, take genes from another source, and mix. That lets you side step the whole protoss resisting infestation issue.

    "Zeratul also said the cycle is going to end, well what is the cycle? maybe ending it is a good thing, and its possible this "cycle" is of the zerg - they infest species and evolve which is basically a cycle of evolution."

    At BlizzCon 2007, when talking about Zeratul's conversation with Raynor (the lore video), Metzen was saying that Raynor would listen to Zeratul because "you must save reality".

    There's no 100% evidence that the xel'naga are evil, so you have to read between the lines. However, that's secondary to Fenix.

    There's more evidence against Fenix being alive. Stukov gets mentioned a few times in Story So Far Part 2, no surprise since Blizzard brought him back and declared that canon. Fenix doesn't even get mentioned once in either part.

    The point of Story So Far isn't for StarCraft buffs, but for people new to the game. They don't need to know who Fenix is, since he's dead and will have no impact on StarCraft II. Whereas, if they see Stukov for the first time, Story So Far at least gave them an introduction to him already.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2009
  9. Windblade

    Windblade New Member

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    very much true, but still this is blizzard, nothing is certain and random plots can spawn...hell i was 100% sure that moridin was dead in warcraft 3, and BOOM: Wrath of the lich king: "oh he survived"

    besides the xel'naga are scientists, and by all accounts the most powerful force in the universe i will find it very retarded if they are
    a) evil
    b) killed off by lesser beings

    on-topic: honestly i do agree him coming back is far-fetched but since its blizzard its within the realm of possibility
  10. Kimera757

    Kimera757 New Member

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    The xel'naga were already beaten by "lesser beings" (that would be the zerg) and there's nothing saying scientists can't be amoral or evil.
  11. Dragon God

    Dragon God New Member

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    I have to agree with a few of you guys.
    the Xel'naga seem to be, sort of saviors in a sense, they brought war and peace to the protoss (ie when they left which started aeon of strife and the relics which brought the peace).

    But again they made the zerg ZERG, normally the zerg were actually little worms (the cerebrates are big versions of those worms but can't move) and then the x'n came along and then they could bury into a host's spine and control it and learn its DNA.
    They assimulated everything on the planet, using the best material and leaving the bad DNA.

    How they got off planet?
    thee overmind knew about these interstellar creatures and he lured them with the overminds psi powers and assimulated it. Mutating it so the zerg can hide in its flabs of tissue and meanwhile protected from the vacuum.

    back on topic though: i see as the xel'naga trying to fix the zerg by either using Duran (as an inside agent) to make hybrids to better battle the xel'naga or these "energy creatures" from the temples ( ie Bhekar Ro)
    The fact that the Xel'naga can make a construct that can withstand a nuke dropped on it's pointy roof, means that the X'n can make really good armor.

    Xel'naga seem that they just want to make the world a better place by putting something in or taking something out.

    the temples, well if you read the books, a dark protoss warned the executor about the temple, so its his fault he didn't listin. but the fact that it took alot of protoss/zerg lives (2 whole armies) and a few battlecruisers means it must be REALLY powerful, they might have like 10 of these and are saving up to just fall on Char and eat those zerg alive with like mobile orbital blasting laser.
    that seem like a nice cut scene :D
  12. Windblade

    Windblade New Member

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    beaten and exterminated are very different xD besides that was a extremely surpising attack im sure they have a reasonable explanation for it... =P
  13. Arvendragon

    Arvendragon New Member

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    What if...

    The Xel'Naga were creating something to aid them?

    Maybe some OTHER race even STRONGER?

    THE END OF THE WORLD?
  14. Michael_Liberty

    Michael_Liberty New Member

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    What if the hybrids that the Xel'Naga create are stronger than the Xel'Naga? Perhaps they will get what's been coming to them for a millenia in that they keep trying to create the perfect being, well who says the perfect being wants to listen to them?
  15. overmind

    overmind New Member

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    Well, if the xel'naga are creating hybrids surely they would take special precautions to ensure that they don't attack them like the zerg and protoss already have.
  16. Michael_Liberty

    Michael_Liberty New Member

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    But how perfect could a species be if it doesn't have the ability to grow, succeed and eventually over power it's master? If the Protoss and Zerg could fight and even stand a chance against the X'N then how much more powerful must the new species be?
  17. Hayden351

    Hayden351 New Member

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    Zealing: a Zealot on all fours and has zergling things sticking outa his shoulders
    Dragoonalisk: a Hydra that spits out plasma
    Scouta: a Scout that shoots out Glave Worms
    Ultraier: Ultralisk that spits out intercepters
  18. Kimera757

    Kimera757 New Member

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    Those are ridiculous ideas, especially the last two. I didn't see "Scout DNA" being added to the hybrid mix in Dark Origin.
  19. orestul

    orestul New Member

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    I agree. Plus I don't even see the need for a fourth race. Anyway, because they are called hybrids, means that they are a half something and half something else. That would kind of make them unbalanced, because they wont be unique. And the basic idea of balance in the game is having each race to be unique with their own abilities that do not repeat in other races.
  20. overmind

    overmind New Member

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    No. We share around 65% of our DNA with dogs and 30% with daffodils, there is no reason why hybrids would even resemble their parent races considering the massive genetic diversity between them. It wouldn't even make sense and be extremely disappointing if the hybrids were 'Hydralots' etc.

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