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unit countering?

Discussion in 'StarCraft II Beta' started by Granrey, Jul 21, 2010.

unit countering?

Discussion in 'StarCraft II Beta' started by Granrey, Jul 21, 2010.

  1. Granrey

    Granrey New Member

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    Hi I'm noob and I have some questions about the units:

    a) How do you guys figure which unit is good against certain unit? For instance, in other games the units resemble common knowledge. Like archery>>infantery, cavalry>>archery and infantery>>calvary.

    Or in other games, figher jet >> bomber, ect

    Of course, this is ignoring upgrades and terrain conditions,ect.

    So, how do you guys know which unit counter each? I've not being able to play Beta but I have watched many games on youtube and still I have not figured out as the units on each race look unrelated.
     
  2. sniper64

    sniper64 New Member

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    There really is no true counter.

    For instance a collosus does aoe line sweeps of damage. So it is very effective against killing hydras because of the way they form a line when attacking, but. If you move your hydras in to a clump and target attack the collosus, it will go down in a few seconds.

    It's really just using your head and thinking what would be effective against what.
     
  3. DarkCommander

    DarkCommander New Member

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    Exactly, there isn't a unit to beat this unit and another unit to beat this other unit. It depends on so many thing. Being up or down a ramp/cliff, the upgrades, if you are able to use/micro your units well, the quantity etc. Also the mix of units is very important.

    For example a stalker only army should normally loose to a Maurauder or Tank only army in a decent quantity. But if you get some speed zealots with your stalkers it completely changes everything because you added a unit that mixed with the initial stalker will be more EFFECTIVE. Attention thought, adding the zealots isn't you countering the armoured Maurauders and tanks, you add a unit that combined to the stalkers will be more EFFECTIVE. I say EFFECTIVE because in starcraft 2 its not each unit in your army kills an ennemy unit. It's each unit working together to defeat the ennemy's army along with some micro from your part.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
  4. Granrey

    Granrey New Member

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    Ok.

    well, basically I was asking as on the videos that I watched on youtube the commentator, screams every now and then:

    "oh, he has the wrong unit"
    "the player is moving his army away as the other player came up with such and such unit"

    I also noticed that a player sends a unit to spy what the other one is doing and then based on what he saw, he makes his army.

    Of course, I do notice that micro, army composition and terrain have a lot to do with it as some of you mentioned.
     
  5. sniper64

    sniper64 New Member

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    They do that just to make it more exciting, they don't really know what there talking about i'm guessing.
     
  6. Caiaphas

    Caiaphas New Member

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    Well there are definitely some counters. Obviously Thors counter Banshees and Phoenixes because they get +6 damage against light units with their air attack. Marauders counter armored units like Siege Tanks and Stalkers because they get +10 damage to armored units.
     
  7. Odysseus

    Odysseus New Member

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    There are several "types" of counter:

    The first and basic one is, that a unit which flies and can shoot ground will pretty well counter a unit that is ground-based and cannot shoot air. For example, a Void Ray counters Tanks in this way.
    The second aspect is unit-type, and the third is the armour-type: Every unit has a unit type such as "biological" or "mechanical" and an armour type (such as "light" and "armoured").

    For example, a Mutalisk is Air/Biological/Light.
    So, if you have a unit that can shoot in the air and does extra damage to biological and/or light targets, this unit is a counter to Mutas. In our case, a Thor would be good, since it can shoot air and is good vs. light armour.
    Additionally, we coulkd talk of a fourth counter-type: Splash damage. The Thor's anti-air-missiles do splash damage which is exceptionally good vs. Mutalisks, since they move in one big ball. (Other than e.g. Carriers, which seem to me like keeping some more distance to each other).

    Or think about Roaches: They have a good armour value, actually count as "armoured", and have high hit points. The Immortals do 50 (!) extra damage vs. armoured targets, so they are apparently a good counter. But the immortals are an even better counter to siege tanks, since those also count as armoured, but also they have a weapon with hight damage output but slow fire rate. Since any shot an Immortal suffers is reduced to 10 shield-damage, this counters the tank in another (fifth!) way.

    As a result, we can talk of fife aspects which can make a unit counter another unit:

    1) Movement type (air / ground)
    2) Unit type
    3) Armour type
    4) Damage type
    5) Unit special rules

    So, what you need to do ist to learn which unit does what type of damage against any other unit. After a number of games (and maybe watched videos) you wil pretty much know all about that. Now, you only need to learn how to get the your perfect counter-units in exactly the right time and at a sufficient quantity... ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2010
  8. Taerix

    Taerix New Member

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    The only way to know what "counters" what is to learn about all the units that you can get and which ones your opponent has access to. You need to know the units attributes and damage bonuses, hp, fire rate, armor, etc.

    If you know that your marines are light units and they pack really close together, it's obviously a bad idea to mass them if your opponent has Banelings since they do splash damage to light units.

    It's all about learning the game and spending time playing it. When you come up on certain situations remember how they go since not everything is black and white. Like I figured that Hydralisks would take out Marauders handily, but I found out that they are actually pretty even after playing a bit. It just takes time mostly.
     
  9. asdf

    asdf New Member

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    some units are obviously good against others. for example, any air unit > colossus or seige tanks. immortals are obviously good against armored units, because they do massive bonus damage against armored and their shields can take a heavy beating pretty easily.

    some of the simplest ways of knowing is just look at its bonus damage and armor type: a unit does +damage to light units, it's probably good (or at least better) when faced against light units. likewise, if it's an armored unit, it will do worse against a unit that does bonus damage against armored. also, whether or not it can hit air units can be a pretty big deal.

    the idea of "no true counters" stems from proper gameplay: one unit type can obviously be better than another unit type. so don't build your army out of one type of unit. a good army should be a mix of several unit types, at least 2 and probably 3, hopefully each one covering another's weakness. scouting an enemy will generally let you know what the core of your enemy's army is, i.e. the main threat, and a rough idea of when they'll attempt an attack. also, if they're trying anything unusual, or attempting for one specific unit as quickly as possible (banshee rush, DT rush, void ray rush) you'll be able to see it.

    Day[9] addressed this issue pretty well:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u8ecuDhuZ8
    basically, even though something may be very good at taking out another specific unit... it still costs a lot to make. not just money, but time. say, your opponent went for mass high templars, the obvious counter for terran are ghosts. but what if you went with a mech build? you have only... 2 barracks, and no tech lab attached to either. and you have no ghost academy. you'll need to build all of those... or it could be a better idea just to keep pumping tanks and hellions, suffer the psi storm damage but keep the pressure on your enemy. counters are never set in stone.
     
  10. Shellshock

    Shellshock New Member

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    Does anyone know how many movies will be in Starcraft 2 ?? someone claim there will be around 20....so many considering that the first star was around 4-5 movies in 30 mission